Lets Change Perceptions

[Sophia Rearen]

[SIZE="3"]Hi Girls,
Now I know this has been covered before, but, I think it's so important that we need to keep it in the forefront. Last night, I went to to a tri-ess Christmas party. I was invited by a member, whom I met through URNA. After the dinner, a member here, oohtammi, showed up and asked to join the party. I was so glad she did. She was a wonderful addition to the group of girls.

Anyway, one of our discussions was, we all believed that we girls, need to get out into the public more. I'm sure the rest of the girls here can attest to the fact that once your out, it just feels like your given right to be out with the general public. Girls, if you have not yet done so, please do it. The stories of negative reaction are so miniscule. When your out most people don't care. But, please for the sake of the crossdressing future, do it with some decorum. Try to fit in as best as possible. The "hey, look at me, I'm a crossdresser" look is not a good way to promote a positive lifestyle. Wearing skirts up to one's nether region at the mall can't be good. There's a time and place for everything. Case in point. While we were having our function in a private room downstairs, I had to use the ladies room upstairs. When heading in I noticed a "girl" sitting in the main dining room. She was dressed in a little girls' red Chrismas outfit. Complete with large lolly pop and a blond pigtail wig. Surprisingly, she was dining alone. Girls, this can't help our cause in any way, shape or form.

I know I'm too old to reap the benefits of total open exceptance by the public. But, I know it's coming. My goal is to have it be excepted such as the way lesbians are today. I want to hear from GG's. "Your a crossdresser? That's so cool! I wish my boyfriend/husband would dress! Or, I wish I could find a guy like that". I'm telling you girls, it's going to happen. Question is, do you want to wait 10-20 years or 5-10 to see the fruits (no pun intended) of our labor.

Get out there and be good ambassadores for the crossdressing community and post your stories here. This is the place for a revolution![/SIZE]

[Darlena]

Sophia is right girls. When I was younger and would go out in public the law was not so friendly towards that sort of thing. All that has changed though.(WHEW!) T girls are more accepted nowadays thanks largely to those who have preceeded you in the merry parade of transgendered expression. More media exposure & enlighted legislation makes it a paradise compared to when I was younger.(read my posts) Do it and your confidence level will soar I promise you. If you truely want to feel femme Take a walk on the wild side. I said "Hey, Babe. Take that walk. It's truely liberating. Take a friend or two with you. Love & kisses, DarlenaP.S. Try not to look like a drag queen/hooker. Natural is more of a positive statement

[susandrea]

I know what you mean.

There is a fairly large grey area where CDs and drag queens overlap. Some drag queens make it a point to be as outrageous as possible.

This is an opportunity to educate the public. If you are a CD and you go out, and someone asks if you are a drag queen, you can gently inform them of the difference.

I find drag queens a riot. I saw many of them when I worked in Manhattan. So theatrical! They live in a whole other world and generally seem to be quite happy. I can't say I completely understand them, but they certainly are brave!

There's one who comes into our store once in awhile. He wears a tutu and pushes his little dog in a stroller. He also wears those platform shoes you could put goldfish in, if you wanted to. He certainly rocks our world on those days. He's anything BUT boring.

I think my point is this: They are here to stay. They are "out there" in greater numbers than CDs, at least for now. Live and let live, I say.

I do agree with you about CDs trying to look like sexpot teenagers when they're middle-aged. I understand WHY, but it isn't a great look, and it isn't anywhere near convincing if that's what you're after.

So... I guess it all boils down to what your objective is. Convincing or outrageous?

[CharleneCD]

Sophia, Looks like we both went to Tri-Ess parties last night. I hope you enjoyed yours as much as I did mine.

As for the main Idea of the post, I try to set a good example for my fellow CD's every time I go out. My wife ( with my permission) has also told alot of her GG friends about my dressing when they complain about not finding good men. Knowing and liking me, we hope they might be interested in meeting one of our sisters.

[Sophia Rearen]

I know what you mean.

There is a fairly large grey area where CDs and drag queens overlap. Some drag queens make it a point to be as outrageous as possible.

This is an opportunity to educate the public. If you are a CD and you go out, and someone asks if you are a drag queen, you can gently inform them of the difference.

I find drag queens a riot. I saw many of them when I worked in Manhattan. So theatrical! They live in a whole other world and generally seem to be quite happy. I can't say I completely understand them, but they certainly are brave!

There's one who comes into our store once in awhile. He wears a tutu and pushes his little dog in a stroller. He also wears those platform shoes you could put goldfish in, if you wanted to. He certainly rocks our world on those days. He's anything BUT boring.

I think my point is this: They are here to stay. They are "out there" in greater numbers than CDs, at least for now. Live and let live, I say.

I do agree with you about CDs trying to look like sexpot teenagers when they're middle-aged. I understand WHY, but it isn't a great look, and it isn't anywhere near convincing if that's what you're after.

So... I guess it all boils down to what your objective is. Convincing or outrageous?

Susan,
I agree with you. Drag queens such as you described are a hoot. How can you not atleast chuckle at such. In Manhatten, you can expect as much, it's what helps give NYC it's flavor. But, as I said, there's a time and place for everything. People going out to dinner in an upscale small town hotel don't necessarily want/need to see it.
We cd'ers need to increase the number of girls such as Charlene in the public's eye. Let the hooker type walk the Sunset strip if they so choose.

[susandrea]

Susan,
I agree with you. Drag queens such as you described are a hoot. How can you not atleast chuckle at such. In Manhatten, you can expect as much, it's what helps give NYC it's flavor. But, as I said, there's a time and place for everything. People going out to dinner in an upscale small town hotel don't necessarily want/need to see it.
We cd'ers need to increase the number of girls such as Charlene in the public's eye. Let the hooker type walk the Sunset strip if they so choose.

It's true there is a time and place for everything. But you do have to be careful not to adopt the uptight attitude that most people have towards anyone who is "different". After all, how are they really hurting you? You certainly don't want to come off as unaccepting as the people who firmly believe that any deviation from the norm is disgusting and unnatural. Would you want to be the one who decides what is right and what is wrong? I wouldn't!

I'm more distressed by parents who allow their kids to scream all through dinner, or by some anger management reject cussing out a waitress than I am by someone's choice of apparel.

I agree that the trashy look so many CDs and DQs adopt does tarnish the over-all perception the unwashed have towards the entire subject, and it is an issue that deserves discussion.

Personally, I'd rather see a DQ in a silly Santa outfit than a three hundred pound woman in a sleeveless tank top with forty pounds of naked flab hanging out of the bottom of her shirt. I see it all the time and it never ceases to amaze me!

[Julie]

Sophia,

You're so right about the importance of us getting out and presenting ourselves in a positive manner. What I've found is newbies to the going out scene tend to dress a bit more provocatively, very short skirts, very high heels, very tight clothes. You'd never see a GG dressed like this unless she was a 'working girl'. There have been times I've been embarassed by some of the outfits I've seen. This hurts our image.

So ladies, take Sophia's advice and use some decorum when you present yourself in public. It will go a long way towards improving our image.

[KathrynW]

Girls, if you have'nt yet done so, please do it. The stories of negative reaction are so miniscule. When you're out most people don't care.

This certainly can't be used as a general rule for everyone. This very much depends on where you live and what kind of places you go to.

When heading in I noticed a "girl" sitting in the main dining room. She was dressed in a little girls' red Chrismas outfit. Complete with large lolly pop and a blond pigtail wig. Surprisingly, she was dining alone. Girls, this can't help our cause in any way, shape or form.

Well, I agree with you 100% on this. That kind of thing is ridiculous.

[Phoebe Reece]

Sophia, I'm with you on this one. Those of us that go out dressed in public are kind of ambassadors for the crossdressing community. Even those that go mainly to gay bars and drag show clubs should be aware that a lot of ordinary straight people will see them and form some kind of opinion about their presentation.

I do not advocate the idea that you should just wear jeans and a sweatshirt when out simply because that is what most GG's are wearing. After all, I am often one of the very few in the mall wearing a skirt, hose, and heels. It is all a matter of what is appropriate for a woman to wear. A skirt and heels may not be what most women wear to the mall these days, but it is not inappropriate for them to do so.

If you present yourself as a stylish well-dressed woman and are "read" as a crossdresser, the person who read you might be thinking: "Gee, that's a nice dress. I wonder where he bought that....." If you present yourself as a cheap hooker and are "read", the person who read you might be thinking: "Whatever he charges is too much....."

[Daphne Renee]

I have to admit I admire you ladies that do go out.. sometimes I wish I could do the same.

[sue_donim]

I agree that presentation makes a big differance when going out and helps to portray a better image of our lifestyle. Also that we should get out in public more.

I also feel that more can be done to promote our lifestyle. I have read so many threads in this forum, blaming society for the way we are perceived, and blaming society for not understanding us. It is up to us to educate society so that our children or their children do not have to live with the emotional turmoil and struggle for acceptance that we have all been through.
The way we present ourselves now can bring about that change sooner rather than later. Those who go out on a regular basis are doing their part in changing society's perception and helping to educate the public. I know a lot of people can't get out for various reasons but that doesn't mean they can't help to bring about a change, maybe they could write to a magazine/paper column. Or if we all got together and formulated an information sheet explaining our lifestyle, then each of us could print out a few copies and discreetly leave them in a library or a doctors surgery, even if this only changes one persons view of us it will help in the long run.

Sue_donim

[Tiffany Tuesday]

Some thoughts, addressed to no individual,

i too dislike seeing those who make no effort, nor take pride in how they dress or dress as ****s. But that is a matter of personal taste whether it be a man or a woman.

Drag queens can be entertaining and a work of art and I know one adult male who publically dresses as a little girl, he won the Turner prize.

If we argue for acceptance, is a man dressed as a tart less acceptable than a street girl? Is an artist like Grayson Perry dressed as a little girl less acceptable than women falling drunk on the street on a friday night?

What of the physically challenged CD? What if to be overweight, or of overtly masculine build, or over a certain height, were considered unnacceptably feminine?

I agree it is worth helping others be all they can be, but the idea of censorship worries me ...
... because who is to be the arbiter of what is or is not tasteful or acceptable? We already have adequate public decency laws.

Why be ashamed of what we are, men who dress as women, and sadly if women are accepted dressed that way, why not men?

The more the public see transvestites every day, the more normal and accepted it becomes. Arguably it is those who hide their original gender who may be doing the TG community a greater diservice

[Miss Sherry]

I agree with the sentiment of this thread: that those of us who go out are ambassadors for the whole community. I am also a little disturbed at the thought of suppressing expression.

If a girl wears a micro-mini with hairy legs and a 4 ft wig, then she will be perceived as exactly that: a guy wearing silly clothes. I don't think that is going to hurt our acceptance (but perhaps his). I don't think it's the clothes that matters as much as the attitude. If you're going to be a lady, act like one; if you're going to be a ****, keep it to yourself.

When I go clubbing, it's miniskirts and heels (see my posts in the picture thread); when I go to the corner store it's capris, tennys, and a sweater; and when I go to the mall it's a nice dress and slip-ons. But always it's a lady first.

Sherry

[Darlena]

Okay, GIRLS. Just to prove a point..,I,Darlena am going out tonight.(in a small town of 1500 population) by myself. Don't worry...I am well trained in the art of fung koo master.(please talk me out of this) Tee Hee! A first in this quiet little town. But I want the younger girls to join me.If not in in deed,then in sisterhood spirit. I'll keep you posted. By the way..,it's in the 20's right now. Love you, sister DarlenaP.P.S. It is freaking COLD!!@w:

[Tiffany Tuesday]

Okay, GIRLS. Just to prove a point..,I,Darlena am going out tonight.(in a small town of 1500 population) by myself. Don't worry...I am well trained in the art of fung koo master.(please talk me out of this) Tee Hee! A first in this quiet little town. But I want the younger girls to join me.If not in in deed,then in sisterhood spirit. I'll keep you posted. By the way..,it's in the 20's right now. Love you, sister DarlenaP.P.S. It is freaking COLD!!@w:

Tee hee Darlena,

cold??? we-ll girl you would wear that panty flashing micro miniskirt!!!

Good luck sweetie,
hugz

[GypsyKaren]

Hi Sophia

I totally agree with you on this. Whenever I go out I just want to look as good as I can, and as normal as I can. It actually is much more comfortable this way, and lately I've taken to wearing pants when I go out, and sensible shoes too. There's a time and place for short skirts, doing the grocery shopping at Wal-Mart or wherever isn't one of them.

GypsyKaren

[Raychel]

I also agree, but with anything good this will take time to grow. The first step should be for all of us to come out to our SO's. I have just recently so this is just breaking ground here. It will take a while before this has all grown enough to go out in pubic. But rest assured, if it does get to that point then I will be a proud and well dressed member.

For all of those that do go out dressed, Be Proud and Do something good for someone when you are out. Help that little old lady bring her bags to the car, Hold the door for the pretty lady right behind you. Be courteous towards other while driving.

These are all nice things to do that the general public has forgotten all about. That will make us stand out in a good way. Make those people think, "Hey wait a minuite that man in a dress was very nice to help me that way" By doing these small things consistantly we can become Supermaninadress

[Amelie]

I have to agree with Tiffany, and maybe even go a little bit further.

It is nobodies bussiness on how I dress. I don't dress so that I can blend in at the malls, I could do this while dressed as a man. I dress outragously so that I can be seen and I don't dress like a shopping mall woman. I am more like a drag quenn than a shopping mall type CD. And who would be the judge of what is appropriate style of dress, would it be the members here, would it be the Mods, who would be the judge of what is the right and wrong clothes to wear. I wouldn't want anyone on this forum to be a judge of clothes in any way.

I was in a club once and I had a member of Tri-Ess came over and talked to me. This person who, was over six foot tall, had facial hair showing, had an ugly wig, he sort of looked like Herman Munster in a dress. This guy came up to me and said how foolish I looked as a punk girl and somehow I was hurting his(Tri-Ess) image of what a crossdresser should look like. He wanted to be one of the judges. I am curious, could I judge him and tell him that he was hurting my image. What criteria do we use to judge, is it just the clothes, how about CDs that shoe a little facial hair, how about big strong men, are these guys hurting the image, or is just the hooker types. I'm sorry to say but these guys hurt my image more that the hooker types. I would never say this, because it would be wrong, I can't judge others, especially on the clothes they wear.

If one wants to dress as a shopping mall girl and blend in, that is fine. If others want to dress outragously then it is also fine, NO ONE on this forum has the right to judge others on how they should dress. And it is wrong to say that there is a time and place to dress outragously, this is just a rule you are trying to set for others, everyone has the right to dress they way they feel happy, it is not up to us to make society like us, we don't have to fit in a mold that society would like us to be.

Everyone should be able to dress anywhere, anyway they want and us CDs on this forum have no say on how others can dress, or the day will come when others will tell you how to dress and try to totally stop your dressing as a woman.

This forum never fails to amaze me.

[Bonnie D]

I agree, Amelie. It is what the young have been saying and doing for centuries. However, as they get older they begin to slowly conform. Fathers tell their sons and mothers tell their daughters what is and is not appropriate to wear and how to act dependant upon each situation. Rebellion is usually the reaction and is perfectly normal. That is how change is made but change is always slow.

There are different ways to dress depending on what you are doing and what you want. If you are out shopping and want to be noticed and maybe even hit on then dress provocatively and enjoy. If anyone complains about how you are dressed don't get upset about it because it is perfectly natural of them, maybe not right but natural. Just don't take it seriously and learn to ignore the looks. As I said the young do it all the time.

I've only been out once and it was out to a couple of clubs, I was wearing a short skirt and 5" heels and felt so good and young. If I was hit on and wasn't interested then I say "no, but thank you." I can't be upset because some man wants to have sex with me, what did I expect, just be polite about it. Of course if I was interested then great.

It would be good if people weren't so concerned about what everybody wore and when. If you don't like what someone else is wearing then ignore them and if you do like what they're wearing then say so. The world would be a nicer place.

Bonnie

[KathrynW]

I agree it is worth helping others be all they can be, but the idea of censorship worries me ...... because who is to be the arbiter of what is or is not tasteful or acceptable?

How could a grown man dressed as a little girl be even remotely considered tasteful or acceptable? Yes, it's a free country, and people can do whatever they want...but they must also be prepared to face the consequences of their actions. Common sense will tell anyone that.

Why be ashamed of what we are, men who dress as women, and sadly if women are accepted dressed that way, why not men?

Ah yes...the age old argument...
It's a shame society in general doesn't see it this way, huh?

The more the public see transvestites every day, the more normal and accepted it becomes. Arguably it is those who hide their original gender who may be doing the TG community a greater diservice

Oh pleaseeee.... Let's review this term "TG Community". Is this an imaginary "community" which doesn't really exist? Or only exists in certain places? Or exists only in the minds of some people? Why does this "community" do for anyone? And why does anyone "owe" this imaginary "community" anything?

It is nobody's business on how I dress. I don't dress so that I can blend in at the malls, I could do this while dressed as a man. I dress outrageously so that I can be seen and I don't dress like a shopping mall woman. I am more like a drag queen than a shopping mall type CD. And who would be the judge of what is appropriate style of dress, would it be the members here, would it be the Mods, who would be the judge of what is the right and wrong clothes to wear. I wouldn't want anyone on this forum to be a judge of clothes in any way.

Well, I've always heard "attitude is everything" in regards to cd-ing, and I can see that you have one, so I guess it's working for you, huh? And you live where? NYC? Can you even imagine that things might be drastically different in other parts of the country?

Everyone should be able to dress anywhere, anyway they want and us CDs on this forum have no say on how others can dress, or the day will come when others will tell you how to dress and try to totally stop your dressing as a woman.This forum never fails to amaze me

Interesting...I think you just proved my earlier point that a "TG Community" is non-existent.

[Sophia Rearen]

Amelie,
Points well taken. I admire how you except yourself for who you are, and you like to express yourself accordingly. Your right, no one should be judgemental. In the example I gave earlier, the little girl, may have been the nicest person in the world. And it's my fault for not talking to her. I certainly don't judge people for what they wear. That would be highly hypocritical of me to do so. I don't judge gothers, punkers, preppies or whatever by the clothes they wear. But lets face it, most people do. And if that's what your into then fine. If you want to make a statement, feel free to do so. Thank goodness for free societies. Notice I did'nt say free and open societies. We crossdresser's are still living in a mostly closed society. As was mentioned in an earlier reply, it may be more difficult to cd depending on one's location.

I would, however, like to respectfully disagree with you. While it may not be up to us to have society likeus, I believe that it is up to us to have society accept us. And for society to accept us, we must first accept ourselves for who we are. You, for one, have done a marvelous job of self-acceptance. However, it's difficult for most people to look deep inside themselves and admit who they really are. You and I are the lucky ones. As mentioned in My Husband Betty, Socrates said, "an unexamined life isn't worth living". You have examined your life and are living it, and I appreciate that. But, how many can say that? How many have accepted themselves by saying to themselves and at least one other person, "I am a CD", "I am transgendered", or any other label you would like to put on yourself. Just look at the number of guests to the number of members online here in this forum. The guests typically outnumber the members. Using myself as an example, I lurked about here and other places on the net on my road to self acceptance before I was able to say, "I am a crossdresser".

Now, if it's so hard for most people to accept themselves for who they are, then how do we expect the general public or society to accept us? It is my feelings and beliefs that, that is what is needed. I can and have gone out both day and night. To cd only events and to regular places. How many others here and elsewhere can say that? What's the reason why they don't go out? Is it fear of being made fun of, fear of being a victim of a hate crime, non acceptance, or you name it, there a hundreds of reasons.

My point and I think the point of this forum is that we are cders and I think that most of us would rather be out of the closet than in. So, we are all here to help each other. And no greater example of that is the GG's that are members here. It is they who make this forum special. They are our model of what we want society to be. Could you imagine a society of people such as they? It would be bliss. Then, when we have that point, let the expressionism fly. Until then, I believe in order to get others out of the closet the public's perception of us has to change. And, one of my points in the original thread was get out there. If there was a mass of cd's portraying themselves as good people then perception would change and more girls would go out for lack of fear or whatever. So I'm basically asking for a movement. If 95% of the girls were to go out and "fit in" and 5% were DQ's or such then the acceptance will happen If 95% were DQ's and 5% trying to fit in then, I'm sorry, I don't see acceptance occuring and most girls staying locked in the closet. I'm sorry, that's just how society is.

There are alot of people that are not acceptive of us because of ignorance. They don't know any better. Do we see ourselves being portrayed much in a positive light? Hardly, we are typically portrayed and perceived negatively. I loved the Silence of the Lambs, but hated how the serial killer had to be the crossdresser. Unfortunately, we are dealing with perception and if that is an example of societies perception, then I believe it is up to us to change it.
Warm Regards,

[Darlena]

To my hairy drag queenesque sisters : I just want to say that I am more impressed by those who have some decorum.Spare me the sight of your stuff dangling out from that micro mini. I'd like to put out a bit of a challenge to whoever and try to look convincing. I, myself find that a bit of a turn on. I just dread the horrifying image of some poor senior citizen writhing in cardiactic agony on some sidewalk somewhere because they were not quite prepared for the image that has been thrust upon them. PLEASE...give a damn and make their acceptance of us GIRLS a bit more pleasant than Girlzilla on steroids.Nonetheless, Darlena is here for you. And I do appreciate this opportunity to express my opinion on the matter.Love & kisses

[Tiffany Tuesday]

[QUOTE=KathrynW]How could a grown man dressed as a little girl be even remotely considered tasteful or acceptable? Yes, it's a free country, and people can do whatever they want...but they must also be prepared to face the consequences of their actions. Common sense will tell anyone that.

Dear Kathryn,

first off hon, please, it is a discussion not an argument, okay babe? But in the above point you are wrong. There is an artist, a potter, called Grayson Perry who was last year's Turner prize winner. Whilst dressed as a little girl in public carrying his dolly, he has made documentaries, done TV interviews, collected his award in front of the world's media, gone as an honoured guest to art events travelling all over the world and yes he has been accepted. I equally would accept he may be an exception and not the rule. If you care to do a Google on Grayson, you'll see the absolute truth of what i say. I also happen to know him, and can confirm that i refused to take part in his documentary as i felt it potentially an exploitation, but not by him but by the producers. He is totally sincere and innocent in his mode of attire and reasoning. Personally i find his dresses a bit frumpy, i'd prefer much cuter ones.

Ah yes...the age old argument...
It's a shame society in general doesn't see it this way, huh?

Just as they did not accept Ms Bloomer too, when she and her girlfriends first started to wear trousers ... but she and women like Emily Pankhurst (the suffragette) had the courage to face similar prejudice against females wearing what they please and doing what previously was considered male attire and activities!

Oh pleaseeee.... Let's review this term "TG Community". Is this an imaginary "community" which doesn't really exist? Or only exists in certain places? Or exists only in the minds of some people? Why does this "community" do for anyone? And why does anyone "owe" this imaginary "community" anything?

It most certainly exists .. check out Sparkle, Manchester, UK 2005 (to promote the trans lifestyle) ; Rose's Boat Party 2004; Richard O'Briens Transfandango ( Rocky Horror man's trans charity event for sick children); Miss Trans World; most any Gay Pride mardi gras anywhere, the group is now alled LGBT (ie lesbian gay bi and trans) ; Southern Belles in Atlanta etc etc .. and innumerable out and proud TG groups around the world.

Kathyrn, things are changing, tgirls are working to change it, but not by advocating censorship of our attire or by cowardly buckling to the tyranny of tradition, but through refusing to be ashamed of what we are and by going out and daring to wear that which society would deny us, female clothes.

Honey, please check out the facts i present, it is not my intention to argue, merely to inform on what i have experienced in reality
Hugz x

[Sophia Rearen]

Darlena,
Funny stuff. I love the titles of your posts. I find that the hardest part of posting. So therefor, I usually dont.
Where is our update on last nights outing?

[Sophia Rearen]

Girls,
I walk the walk, talk the talk. Just so you all know, I just read my original post and my most recent long post to my wife. While she didn't exactly like what I was talking about, she did like what I and Amelie had to say. Thank goodness for this forum. Moving forward one step at a time.