Not telling or lying

[andrea lace]

I have read quite a few posts now about telling your SO.
Every situation is different and within those situations are many CDers that chose not to tell there SOs that they like to wear women's clothes. My question is how many members of this forum believe that not telling the wife is the same as lying to them. My wife and I have been married for 17 years and I only told her 3 months ago. I don't believe that I was lying to her all these years. I mean I had a hard enough time admitting to myself that I liked to present as a woman let alone tell my wife about it. I firmly believe that secrets are not free and they inevitably end up costing somebody more than they were willing to pay, but is it telling the one you love lies, when it could end up costing you both so much?

[Jenni Yumiko]

I believe I was lying by omission, which makes it still a lie. If I could do it over I wouldn't. And other than that my wife knows everything about me, even the things my family and siblings don't know.

[Jodi]

It isn't whether we consider it a lie, it's whether the SO considers it a lie. When I told my wife, now ex-wife, she considered it a lie that I had not told her.

Jodi

[Jenniferathome]

My question is how many members of this forum believe that not telling the wife is the same as lying to them.

I never thought of it as lying while I was hiding. THAT'S the problem. I didn't consider it as such. My wife did. Living in denial is something I think we cross dressers are good at. Something of this magnitude is clearly a lie. If one cheats on one's wife and doesn't tell, is that lying? Of course it is.

[PaulaQ]

It's a lie. There are some valid reasons for lying, but nevertheless, it's a lie. (A classic one, and a fairly compelling one, is that some of us drop this for a period of years. We may lie to ourselves and think "I'm cured! That was embarrassing, hope nobody finds out!", and get married during the "great purge.")

Lying because you are lying to yourself is a lesser offense to my mind than setting out to willfully and knowingly deceive someone. (Example: You made up your entire past and background because it was criminal - she literally doesn't know a thing about you.) Still - this is lying.

[Mikkigurll]

Yes, it is lying.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Andrea, You can call it what you want but you are decieving your wife by hiding
your CDing and it probably will not end well for you.

[sherib]

Call it what you like its still a lie.

[PaulaQ]

The only exception I can think of would involve situations where you are quite certain your wife wants to be lied to. There are people who simply don't want to deal with some things, sweeping them under the rug, letting someone else deal with them. I can't imagine these are happy situations usually, but that's not for me to judge.

[Fran Moore]

This poor, poor horse......

Lying = when she asks you "are you a crossdresser"? Your answer is NO! That is a lie. (if you truly are one, and not living in denial of it, or even if you are in denial)

Living a lie = when you crossdress and don't divulge to her that you are doing so.

There actually is a difference (in my mind)

But if you don't divulge to her that you crossdress, and you are living a lie, does that mean that all the other things that you have done in your life prior to, and currently that you choose not to divulge means that you are living a lie about all that as well? Does that make you just a BIG FAT LIAR? Where does it stop?

Don't we all have some things in and about our lives that we just choose to keep secret, private, you know, those innermost thoughts?

Example:

That dress actually DOES make her butt look big
I'm oddly attracted to that guy dressed as a women
I wonder what it would be like to have real breasts
My first girlfriend was actually a better sexual partner than my spouse
I was sexually molested by a priest when I was nine
etc., etc., etc.

Are you a LIAR?

I think if you can truly and honestly answer no to this than you are in a minority, but hey I could be wrong......

But then again, I could be LYING!

[AllieSF]

Well, to me based on my understanding of the meaning of lying, which I just Googled and read on Dictionary.com, not revealing is not lying. I think that we should be using the correct terminology here. In the case of CD's when they have never told a lie, it is withholding important information from someone who may take different actions if they know that information in a timely manner. I think that a lot of people here like the term lying because it is easier to understand in the context of CD's and their SO's, is what a lot of surprised SO's say after they found out, and that it carries generally a more negative connotation than failing to reveal something important, which helps make it worse then it really should be if they still love each other. Instead of being a serious issue, it becomes a justification for not unreasonable reactions and for not trying to really make an effort to understand.

That being said, I also agree that it is better to inform your SO prior to making that big commitment to each other from living together to getting married, and to also try to tell the SO as soon as possible if that pre-commitment reveal was never made. However, that is where the rubber meets the road and making that decision to reveal and its subsequent potentially very negative consequences is totally up to the revealer to decide. For those who are in long term relationships and have never told their SO's for whatever reason, that reveal becomes even harder.

Here on this site we are all adults and are responsible for our own, not others', decisions. I personally know of a few instances that not telling was and still is the best option based on what I understand of the situation. That last part is also key here because who really knows what situation the other is in. We can always recommend, but in my opinion never require or demand that another do what we think is best.

I have read a just a few posts by new GG's here that stated that they actually preferred to never have known about this side of their SO's life because it gave them a big burden to carry and really complicated their own lives. I also know a limited few CD's that have been successful in keeping this side of their lives secret for many years.

I personally will somehow figure how to tell an SO before it becomes too serious. I am definitely not looking forward to that moment for a lot of reasons. One is just how to overcome the fear of the big reveal. Others include hoping that she will react maturely and with a lot of common sense, which from the many posts here is not something that can be readily expected from a GG, especially one that we are just getting to know. I know I would be devastated if I made that momentous decision to tell only to have her go off the handle, unreasonably in my opinion, and then tell everyone else just to hurt me. Yeah, and I thought I knew her!

Some couples are actually lucky to have a great communication process with their SO's and because of that working process are much better equipped to handle serious surprises in life and in their own relationships. However, I have to say that I only know of a few relationships (the minority) that are successful in that way. When we have an over 50% divorce rate in the USA, then I think it is easy to extrapolate that almost that same number do not have a great communication process and who knows how the other will react when that big reveal happens. All food for thought when trying to decide what to do.

[PaulaQ]

I guess I should clarify then - based on the only definition I actually care about - what my wife will think, a lie by omission (what this technically is) is still a lie. I am 100% sure she will feel this way. Obviously not everyone will feel the same.

[sandra-leigh]

I became frighteningly good at telling only part of the truth, or telling irrelevant truths.

"I went by the mall tonight and picked up some milk." -- Completely true, but the milk was my cover story for cloth shopping for 2 hours.

"There is a computer club meeting downtown near my work tonight." -- Yes, there was, but I didn't go there, I went to the cross-dressing meeting a few blocks away.

"I stayed a bit late and it takes me a while to get home on the bus." -- Yup. But what I did is taxied to the meeting, stayed about half an hour, and taxied from there home.

In time I was literally getting sick to my stomach, upset at my deliberate misdirections: it was in opposition to the kind of person I wanted to be.

[ReineD]

As soon as you realize this is a part of who you are no matter how infrequently you dress, then it is a lie if you don't tell.

Some of you might say that it is not a part of who you are, it is just something that you do. If you do it regularly or if it important to you, then you are lying if you don't tell.

[Wildaboutheels]

Withholding certain information from others is normal Human behavior and is NOT lying. Just because we LOVE our kids, wives or SOs, doesn't need we need to tell them "everything". What a rediculous scenario...

[PaulaQ]

Withholding certain information from others is normal Human behavior and is NOT lying. Just because we LOVE our kids, wives or SOs, doesn't need we need to tell them "everything". What a rediculous scenario...

Should I have withheld my alcoholism from my future wife? I'd been sober all of 3 years. It's been 23 now - but I could just have easily slipped at 5 years, and died from it. Would that have been ethical? Would that have been lying?

I had no magical way of predicting the future. I believed I wouldn't relapse into alcoholism, and I didn't. But she couldn't have known that - so I did the only thing I could do, and told her.

She had dealt with an alcoholic in her family before - and swore "never again." The chance she'd have dumped me because of that was quite high. Somehow she didn't.

I think it's hard to justify withholding crucial information from the person you intend to spend the rest of your life with. Everyone else? Sure - protect yourself, only tell people who need to know - maybe nobody else.

Bear in mind - if I hadn't told her that I drank, she'd have never known because in 23 years, I have not touched a drop.

How is this any different? I'm willing to listen to compelling arguments.

Or do you think I had no obligation to disclose my alcoholism to my wife. She didn't live through it with me. Maybe you feel that would've been an ethical choice.

I'm all ears.

[stacycoral]

That is a hard thing to decieded, since i told my wife before we were married some 20 years ago, i just told my sister this week, and will not tell my parents, because they would never understand, i a way some people you want to protect, and not embrass them to because want we love to do. hugs.

[AllyCDTV]

"Truth" is subjective and overrated. Is everybody supposed to tell everyone about everything? Give me a break. If women knew half of what goes on in men's minds they'd have nothing to do with us and it would be the end of the human race. Similarly if politicians were held to the same standard some of us are trying to hold each other to, we would have anarchy as our form of government. The real world is not black and white. All the pollyannas out there that think the world would be a better place if nobody lied need to grow up.

The thought that honesty is the best policy in all cases is one of the biggest farces I have seen on this forum. It is a good policy but it is not the best in all cases. It bothers me to think that someone may blindly follow this advice to come out as a crossdresser to their SO just because it worked out in a small handful of instances. It appears that, based on the stories I have seen on this forum coming out rarely works out for the best. And to use the excuse that it would always be better coming from the crossdresser rather than the SO finding out on their own is wishful thinking. Either way it's gonna be a bad situation in most cases and it will be very difficult to make any good come out of it.

As to whether omission is lying, perhaps the better question is: To what end does disclosure serve? Will it increase overall suffering of all involved or decrease it? Or is there a different path such as ending the marriage or quitting crossdressing which would be better?

[Beverley Sims]

I feel that not telling your wife can be a wise tactical move sometimes.
I do advocate there is a time to tell so as it does not wreck your marriage.
If you continue to hide it you are only cheating yourself, and when you do tell a lot of doubt and suspicion can be added to the mix.

[ReineD]

Ally, are you in a serious relationship or have you ever been in one? The type of relationship where all you want to do is be together, you don't get bored talking until the wee hours of the morning, you both seem to never get enough of each other, and neither one of you can do any wrong in the other person's eyes?

If you haven't experienced this, then I understand why you think that it's OK to treat a partner with the same distance, have the same privacy rules, as you would treat a roommate or a coworker.

Men who are in love do let their guard down and they do tell their intimate secrets, as do the women. But, I suspect that this is more difficult for some of the crossdressers who have built rather thick walls around themselves in order to not let the world see what was inside ... and so it is rather terrifying to let someone else in, isn't it.

[PaulaQ]

quitting crossdressing which would be better?

If I could do that - I wouldn't be on this forum. I've tried to suppress this for 40 years. I simply am unable to do so. I know when I'm beaten. More to the point - I believe now this is a part of me. Indeed, I think it *is* me, at least the parts of my personality that are actually worth much of anything. Anyway, I don't have much energy left to be at war with myself. I give.

Suppose I won the lotto - would it be OK to not tell my wife?
Suppose I got diabetes - would that be OK to not tell my wife?
Suppose I have a financial setback, or lose my job - should I not tell that until we're evicted?
Suppose I am in a position to retire early - no bad consequences at all, but don't want to quit my job - can I neglect to mention that because I want to keep working?

Where exactly do you draw the line?

All the pollyannas out there that think the world would be a better place if nobody lied need to grow up.

Well, I'd never suggest that - there are many who will hurt you if they have truthful information about you. There is a need for privacy. However, I would suggest that if you include, in the circle of people who need to be lied to and can't be trusted, your wife, then I'd question your thinking on this.

It bothers me to think that someone may blindly follow this advice to come out as a crossdresser to their SO just because it worked out in a small handful of instances.

I would hope no one would blindly follow anyone's advice - to either tell or not tell.

Look, it is possible that in many cases, the lesser of two evils is to deceive. This is ugly, but the world is ugly sometimes, and our lot is hard. But if that is the choice you have to make - fine - but don't rationalize it, be honest with yourself about and what you are doing.

The problem with rationalizing it is it's easy to do exactly the WRONG thing - because hiding is easy. Many of us learned to hide really young. Sometimes hiding is the right thing to do - I'm not crazy or stupid. But if you are going to lie to your spouse - do it because you know that this is the least bad outcome for them, not because it's the least bad outcome FOR YOU. And know that you are denying them a choice, and the ethics of that are questionable, in my opinion.

[Lovepython]

This can be confusing because it can change over time. I know in my situation what was a once in a while thing (CDing) has taken on more importance as I grew older. I now identify much more with expressing my feminine side.

In a past relationship I told my SO once things started to get serious. It came at a point about three months into the relationship when we thought it might be time to live together. After some thought she not only accepted it but was actually turned on by it. There were never any boundaries. If I was dressed up she couldn't last more than 15 or 20 minutes before she grabbed me by the hand and marched me off to the bedroom. It was great from that perspective. For other reasons we did go our separate ways.

I think you absolutely must tell but I understand how difficult this can be in a relationship you've been in for a number of years. As things change in way we don't necessarily understand or expect it can really cause problems in a long term relationship. I also sympathize with the GGs in those relationships. It often does seem like the whole truth wasn't shared. Some secret was hidden away and after 10 or 20 years of devotion to a relationship this CDing thing gets sprung on them. Wow.

I also know I couldn't be in a relationship where my CDing wasn't accepted. It's just too much of an integral part of me. I wouldn't want to be involved with someone who couldn't accept me. The relationship ends up being shallow and things really do get hidden away. It's no way to live for me. Couldn't do it. Everyone has to make their own choices in life.

[PaulaQ]

But, I suspect that this is more difficult for some of the crossdressers who have built rather thick walls around themselves in order to not let the world see what was inside ... and so it is rather terrifying to let someone else in, isn't it.

This is precisely how I feel.

[Rachelakld]

Technically "no",
but emotionally and morally yes, and women are big into emotions and morality.
I feel the time from before you admitted your crossdressing nature, probably was not a lie, but once you accept this truth, then it should be a truth shared with your SO.
I would prefer anyone with the fantasy of wearing stockings or frilly underware to share this with their SO, and if it goes full scale, to also be a shared and hopefully a fun adventure

Spoke to wife about it, she disagrees totally with me, the omission of the fact, could be for the greater good of the family and mentioned various senarios to back up her view point.
As I tell my girls, if me and mum give different advise, mums is normaly the best option.

[Wildaboutheels]

Seeing things in B&W is something adults should outgrow.

IMO.

Trying to lump ALL CDers ... or black people or females or teenagers or Gay people or men or any Human into some preconceived box will only lead to mistakes. Perhaps fatal ones for those people who think with their eyes and not their brains. Of course one CAN throw out the tired old argument that anyone who doesn't "HAVE TO" dress is not "really a CDer" if it makes you feel better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF9T4OpGNQY