I recently had a falling out over a comment by a third party that I was "rude" when I responded to someone that their version of a marriage was not a marriage to me.
I do not ascribe to the adage "if you have noting nice to say, say nothing at all." Rather, my mantra is something like, "tell it like it is." So, Is it the collective belief that we are here only to praise each other? Blow sunshine up our skirts? Is constructive criticism unwelcome?
Seriouspost:
Marriage is one of those things where elitism is not only senseless, but it's just plain rude.
100% unwelcome.Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
it really depends on the context. If someone asks for a blunt opinion, it doesn't mean to break out the sledgehammer, it can be a toss up if someone REALLY wants the truth. Think of it similar to Facebook , everyone is not really your "Friend", but its the only option available.
A forum is supposed to be a free exchange of ideas. If we want nothing but love and validation, we should just get a dog. There are a few girls here who respond overly positively to everything. Sometimes we just have to call a spade a spade, and if somebody's feelings get hurt, maybe we grow and learn from it.
Just once I'd like to read 'How do you like my new pics?' and instead of everybod saying 'like a movie star' or 'you pass as a beautiful woman everyday'for somebody to say 'Like Rosie O'Donnell on a four day bender'.
I know that the unofficial motto of this site is 'be nice' but sometimes an honest opinion is the nice thing to voice.
Last edited by I Am Paula; 06-25-2013 at 10:47 PM.
"their version of a marriage was not a marriage to me"
That's not constructive at all, it's just another variation on people telling others whose marriage is "valid" or "real".
A better thing to do would've been to ignore it if you disagree and post nothing at all.
Wow! What a novel idea. (Sorry about the sarcasm Karen is rubbing off)
If you voice an opinion that is unpopular or a little too bold you are likely to get a year's ration of s=(t. I make that mistake sometimes. I don't ascribe to group think. There are times I say nothing at all instead of voicing my opinion. I don't see any value added to the proverbial group hug just to get a by line.
Great question!
Annette
So someone posts their story and asks for response. My response is what it is. Honest. If you don't want a response why post at all? No. No one gets a free ride. I have an opinion and am entitled to it and to share it. I shared only a portion of my response in the above post. Constructive criticism was offered. THAT, however was not the source of the friction.
I would like you to meet my drummer. He plays with one stick and a ladle...he is a different drummer and I march to him. You may come into contact with me and thus ask a question. My drummer and I may not dance the dance everyone else does but we will try an teach a step that may make you life easier. We don't have sugar to coat things with. We don't blow sunshine. And if it is about to fall we will point but you are the one who has to nave before it flies.
You ask an opinion, you will get an opinion and it often won't fit the answer you wanted.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
Opinions r like ----noses! Everyone has one. But, u don't have to share it with everyone.
Personally, I believe marriage to be an obsolete institution. But, hey! Some people still read newspapers, too. I respect their rite to do that. While they still can!
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
To the Op,
I actually feel and understand exactly what you're saying. There seems to be a lot of glad handing and fluffing of skirts.
However, I've also noticed that when a new member comes along and talks about wearing her wifes/mothers/sisters things without permission she gets crucified. While I love this forum there is definitely a case of "group think" going on and it pains me to see people forgetting what it was like to just be starting out. Or that just because their marriage survived coming out of the closet they can't understand why anyone else would be terrified to do the same. And honestly it's disgusting to watch.
Buuuuuuuut, at the same time it's important that when giving criticism on anything it's important to couch it in terms that the recipient remains open to what one is saying, especially if it's for something that may or may not be wrong.
ex: "That skirt is so short a ***** would wear it on 50% off day!" vs. "Perhaps you should consider something with a lower hemline?"
Tact goes a long way. But that's just my two bits. :-)
My love is god; let's go get a slushie . . .
Unfortunately, some "constructive criticism" responses come across more like passing judgment. There is a difference telling someone they have a bad make-up from responses which judge actions. It is tough to be candid, express our views, try to help - when we have limited facts and do not know the sensitivity of others who both author threads or respond to them. We differ by age, ethnicity, culture, religion, education etc. I think most responses are well-intentioned, sensitive, supportive and caring. Some are blunt. Some preachy. But everyone is entitled to their opinions and we grow by seeing the range of responses.
Did I miss something? I didn't think the issue of this thread to be about the marriage issue. Rather, about the acceptance of voicing an honest opinion, albeit unpopular.
Annette
Do keep in mind you didn't frame that terribly well. Was the other person's marriage one where they never saw each other and fooled around? I might agree with your criticism in that case.
Sometimes framing is important.
What u said about marriage is what narrow minded ppl say about gay marriage. Dont know the context, but if u say something is not marriage at least that should come with more detail about why not and what you consider marriage.
Btw, sorry if my english is bad, i m still working on that.
Reminder: on this system, we are all guests of The Owner. You are entitled to have your opinion, but sharing it on this forum is not an entitlement.
Keep in mind too that there are multiple ways of expressing the same opinion. Consider using some diplomacy. For example, instead of saying "You are wrong" one could say "That is not how I was raised".
There is a difference between '"tell it like it is."' and '"tell it like I perceive it'". There are some members here who have had unpleasant experiences, and to them "tell it like it is" is constantly telling the negatives and constantly tell that we should despair: that is not, however, telling it like it is, only telling it from their perception. When something is expressed in the manner of an unchanging fact then the teller often feels they are telling it like it is, but usually they are telling their perception instead. What really is, is complex and contextual and quite possibly dependent on personalities. Although happiness in the world might perhaps be rare, the possibility of happiness should not be denied.
If someone has something they call marriage and it works for them, then saying that you would not consider it marriage has little to be recommended. What would the goal be? To make someone unhappy? To assert the superiority of your conception? To try to force the superiority of your conception upon them?
My marriage is lacking in a number of the features that people have traditionally used in their definition of marriage. For example (and to some this is the absolutely most important fault) it is missing a marriage license. It is also missing what millions of people have been claiming lately is the most important feature of a marriage, namely children (c.f. the anti marriage-equality debates). There are other major things it is missing. But it works for us and has worked for the last 18 years -- quite a bit longer than some of the "real" marriages. An assertion that ours is not a marriage as far as someone is concerned is not constructive, only destructive of something that is working. Marriage is not the same thing to each individual.
I wish I could explain, but there are reasons I can not. I will add that this thread is not about marriage (gay or straight, both are fine) It is about honesty. Annette summarized it well.
I think if someone asks for an opinion then they also ask for someone's negative or positive comments. I personally don't give my opinion unless it is the way I really feel. Mom always taught me if you can't say something nice about someone then don't say anything at all. I try to follow that somewhat, so if I say someone on here looks nice or give my opinion then remember it is only my opinion and probably unless you wanted how I really felt about something you shouldn't have asked me. It's late and I'm tired I hope this all makes sense.... Lol
I, too, see a lot of smoke being blown up skirts around here. I see posts like "do I look passable?", "is this skirt/dress too short?", etc., etc. Really, honesty IS the best answer. It seems everyone wants the "You look terrific" answer and in reality, it just ain't so. Honestly deflating someone's ego is a lot cheaper than wrongly pumping up a false façade. I really have a difficult time with some of the "positive" comments here when you know good and well it just ain't so.
OK, rant over.
Joni
I find a lot of people are hiding their own issues behind "just being honest! If you didn't want my opinion...". Or they use such language to cloak an outright attack as "constructive criticism". So, for me, those are weasel words (and, believe it or not, for my speech teacher, my literature teachers, etc....
The question asked by Jennifer, "Is honesty really welcome here?"
The rest of the text is embellishment and explanation.
The other question,
"Is constructive criticism unwelcome?"
For both questions I think it is welcome.
Abide by the rules of not discussing peoples natural shortcomings in writing ability and it is all good.
Do reply with tact and sensitivity though.
I will put my head in any guillotine and get it chopped off smartly, but I am careful in making my point.
I have said before, I read the OP's question and then answer, reading any other discussion only puts a slant on the argument and leads to a bunfight sometimes.
Work on your elegance,
and beauty will follow.
I don't get it. You expressed your honest opinion about someone's marriage, and so someone else then expressed their honest opinion that you expressed yourself rudely. What's the difference between what you did and what they did? Part of giving honest criticism is a willingness to accept an honest response to that criticism.
You can be honest without being rude. If I ask how my new dress looks, you can respond "OMG that's the ugliest dress I've ever seen." or you can respond "yellow and red zebra stripes don't look good on you, try basic black."
You can also be honest while being respectful of differences of opinion. People around here have many different types of marriages and relationships: some are closeted, some are DADT, some are fully accepting. Some marriages are monogamous, some are polyamorous, some are open; some are straight, some are gay. Some marriages are strong and communicative, some are dysfunctional. You may prefer one of these for you, you may think one of them is best for everyone, you may think that all but one sort of marriage are immoral. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But if you want to say that such-and-such type of arrangement isn't a "real marriage" then don't be surprised if you ruffle some feathers and get some pushback. Most people feel pretty strongly that their marriage is "real" and will stop listening if you suggest otherwise. If you want to give constructive and useful criticism, why use language that you can be sure is going to be inflammatory and distract from the substance of your criticism?
Sure, sometimes it's necessary to put things strongly, for instance, "hey dumb***, your wife is making it real clear she's unhappy, wake the f*** up and start being honest with her if you want to stay married!!!". Was that the case here?
i for one have so much to still learn that i welcome all criticism, good or bad...i still have a pair, so i don't get my panties in a knott over the negative!!
i'm a guy in a dress, so who am i to criticize anybody!!
when i first joined this forum i gave an honest answer on a particular thread and boy did i get bitch slapped...i swore i wouldn't do that again!
so now, if there is a thread that i don't agree with or have a strong negative opinon, i just skip it and move on to the next thread.
so i guess the answer to your question is NO!!!
fyi...my opinon on marriage is that it's a great institution!! if you're ready for an institution...lol
paula
Suppose someone says "My wife and I have X relationship, and Y happened. What do I do?"
You might respond, helpfully, "Well, in X relationships Y is pretty common because of Z. Are you sure X is a good idea? Very few X relationships succeed and you're playing with fire. But some people who do X also do W to help avoid Y..."
Or you might respond, unhelpfully, "X is not a real marriage." In which case, the person either ignores you, or gets pissed off, and the only result is that you get to pat yourself on the back for expressing your honest opinion.
I don't think "if you don't have anything positive to say, then say nothing" is a rule we want to follow here. Constructive criticism is essential, and is most effective when put diplomatically. But I do think that if one doesn't have anything *helpful* to add, then it's usually best to keep one's opinions to oneself.
Last edited by kathtx; 06-26-2013 at 02:21 AM.
While I usually have something to add, I think Celeste got it all in for me.
When writing the next chapter in your life, start with a pencil and eraser - my first page as Miki is full of eraser marks.
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