CD'ers and LGBT

[celeste26]

So how about these definitions:

xxxxsexual is about the sex
xxxxgender is about the gender (expression)
xxxxvestite is about the clothes (cross dressing is literally the same thing)

and none of them are exclusive a single person can fit within more than one (serially or in parallel.) some people still have this puritanical side to them and dont like the "sexual" term for that reason, but one should look to the goals of what you want. Using the term "Trans" and leave off the ending can be a compromise.

[meganmartin]

From my experience it is mixed just as it is mixed just within the trans community itself. I have met some that do not associate with anyone and look down at the trans community and found some that are very curious about me just as I am about them.

[Tracii G]

The cook out I went to last night was hosted by a trans friend and a group called LOVEbodly and is basically a gay right organization.
Everyone there was bonded by one simple thing "acceptance". It didn't matter what part of the spectrum you were.
I was in 50/50 mode and was never shunned in any way and was treated with respect.
Its time to let go of nit picking about letters and get involved in a group of some kind in your area.The GLSO and LGBT groups are everywhere join one and become involved.
Get your voice out there.

[Stark]

I'm brand new here, but here's my $0.02 as a transmasculine person and a new significant friend of a CD'er:

First of all, the "gender police" exist everywhere, not just in the cis/straight population. The LGBT community is full of examples of T people being shunned, shamed, rejected, etc. by gays and lesbians. Get on a gay dating site sometime and see how many men's profiles say "no femmes," or listen to some lesbians declaring that one of their own has come out as trans simply to "gain male privilege." So the entire T umbrella is still fighting for acceptance even within the queer community.

As far as why CD'ers in particular might not gain acceptance even under that T umbrella, perhaps it's due to the (often mistaken?) belief that CD is not about identity but is merely a fetish. Until someone I respected (and now care about a good deal) "came out" to me and we discussed it, I believed this myself. Having been trusted enough to interact with him when he's en femme, I can clearly see that, while this is not exactly the same as being MtF trans, it is still literally trans-gender behaviour/feelings. He is moving across gender and is definitively both the same and different when he's in that mode. It's fascinating for me as someone who goes back and forth between feeling liberated and oppressed by the fact that I occupy a space off the two poles of socially-accepted gender expression. So, I think CD'ers belong under the umbrella if only because they are defying the "two and only two boxes" system.

[Vickie_CDTV]

I have found the members of the LGBT community often doesn't understand hetero men who crossdress, but I don't think it is due to any kind of animosity. It is just difficult for those who are cisgendered, gay or hetero, to understand why a straight man would want to wear dresses occasionally. Most gay men are masculine and like men, I am a feminine man (at least occasionally) who likes women, it is just hard for them to relate to and wrap their mind around; likewise, I can't (personally) wrap my mind around the idea of being with another man.

[Leona]

Get your voice out there.

Best advice ever.

Look how it worked in the '60s for the civil rights movement! MLK had the right idea when he decided to follow the crowd! Pride parades have done a great deal to win acceptance for LGB! And those started almost as pitched battles.

You can't be heard if you don't speak up! DO SOMETHING. ANYTHING. I started with the grocery store, heh. Considering other things now that that's sorted out (and the clientele there are also responding more positively to me. A couple I've seen before went by and I heard the man teasing the woman about my outfit, and she agreed she liked it, but would never wear it because she couldn't pull it off like I did ).

So GET OUT THERE AND BE SEEN. And when people try to be mean to you, do what you gotta do, but do it peacefully, even if confrontationally. MLK had the best ideas for that (which he ripped from Gandhi).

[Sophie_C]

Greenie's thread entitled "Pride" got me thinking about where we are, and where we're headed, regarding general acceptance of crossdressing.

Are we on the outside looking in? I'd really like to know where we stand in the eyes of the "I'm Out, Loud and Proud" movement... they're lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered... for the most part, they're not crossdressers. And I really wonder if we would be welcomed and supported by them. Do they even want to include us under the "transgender" umbrella if we're not considering transitioning?

I'm a guy that likes to express his femininity by dressing as a woman. That's as far as it goes for me. It makes me happy. I believe there's nothing wrong with doing so. I'd like to join forces with the LGBT community, as there's strength in numbers, and they've made tremendous strides in gaining acceptance.

I'd like to expand their horizons, bolster their influence, and contribute to their voter base... all by adding two letters... LGBTCD ...

Is that really so hard?

Thoughts?

CD = Q, as part of the LGBTQ. Read up, sweetie!! Queer encompasses Crossdressers, as well as plenty of other people who have fetishes and various other things that scare middle america! Crossdressers were at stonewall, and the primary people who started rioting.

[Leona]

What if I don't want to accept the "queer" label, or "genderqueer"? What if I grew up in a way that the word "queer" is as offensive to me as that one word that starts with 'n'?



This is why I accept "transgender" politically. It's inoffensive, and reasonably describes who I am to someone who knows it's a big umbrella. To others, I'll gladly explain it.

[Tracii G]

How does CD = Q? Most are not Q.
When someone says genderqueer do they mean odd or gay?
Most of the gay people I know never use the word queer.
I heard the term "guy dyke" online from a FtM person and I'm still confused as to what they meant.

Did some research and a guy dyke is a guy that is attracted to lesbian women/ looking women.Learn something new everyday.

[DebbieL]

Greenie's thread entitled "Pride" got me thinking about where we are, and where we're headed, regarding general acceptance of crossdressing.

Are we on the outside looking in? I'd really like to know where we stand in the eyes of the "I'm Out, Loud and Proud" movement... they're lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered... for the most part, they're not crossdressers.

Keep in mind that the term transgendered has been deliberately kept separate and distinct from transsexual since about 1985.

Harry Benjamin, trying to come up with terminology that distinguished the range of cross-gender behaviors and roles tried to create this distinction in his papers as well. Later the IFGE tried to further establish the distinction. A transsexual is someone who feels that his sexual identity does not match his biology. A transsexual may or may not transition, may have decided not to transition, may be in transition, may have decided on a partial transition (she-males), or may even have completed transition. Many transsexuals who have completely transitioned don't consider themselves transsexual any more since their identity and biology seem to match. Even so, they have the experience of being transsexuals and provide support and the experience of having been both male and female in either order.

The term "Transgender" has been established and distinguished to include the widest possible range of those who wish to express aspects of gender that are opposite of their birth gender. This could range from being "effeminate" to fetish dressing (wearing only particular items of clothing), to cross-dressing, to passing to being full-blown transsexual. Much like Kinsey's scale of 1-6 regarding sexual preference, with 1 being totally heterosexual to 6 being totally homosexual in both preference and actions, and the range of 2 through 5 including not only actual practices but also fantasies and desires.

Harry Benjamin tried to establish a similar scale for those who are transgendered, ranging from 1 to 6, with 1 being someone who is totally content with their own birth gender to 6 being someone who would rather commit suicide than live trapped in their birth gender, someone who MUST transition to survive.

Again, the range between 2 and 5 includes both desires and fantasies as well as practices. There are some cross-dressers who dress up and love being pretty and sexy for an hour or two, perhaps only for sexual pleasure, then want to go back to their birth gender until their next experience, these might be a 2 on the scale. Conversely, there are some who may appear to be completely gender conformance yet have secret desires and fantasies of being transformed into a full blown woman, perhaps a 4 or even a 5 on the scale.

Rating transgender people is very difficult and a given rating may only be for a moment in time, for a specific set of circumstances. A heterosexual man who is happily married, has children, a great job, and only dresses up in private, perhaps in hotels, may consider himself a 2 on the scale. That same man, having been outed, divorced, unable to see his children and with a new partner who is totally accepting of his transgender status my swing to a 4 or 5 on the scale, wanting to present as the opposite gender as much as possible.

Often, true transsexuals will manifest their transgender desires and fantasies very early. Often, even as toddlers, they will gravitate to members of the opposite sex, a boy might want to play with dolls, and a girl might want to play with her brother's trucks. Often they will try to cross-dress in simple and seemingly innocent ways. The boy may make a skirt out of a towel or a pillow case, the girl will wear pants and pull any jewelry out of her hair. A transgender girl, when forced to wear a dress will often do everything she can to mess it up as much as possible, especially if it involves getting into a fight or wrestling match with the boys.

For transgender boys, there is usually a point, shortly after elementary school, often first or second grade, when they will be forced to be gender conformant. They will be forced to play with other boys, even though they don't want to. They might not be allowed to play with other girls. In many cases, the forced behavior is the result of a cross-dressing incident. They may have tried on mom's clothes, or swapped clothes with one of the other little girls in the neighborhood, or even said in class that they wanted to be a princess. Often, they are labled "sissies" and violently attacked, sometimes even under the direct supervision of teachers and school supervisors. The young transsexual learns quickly to hide all true feelings and to try and at least avoid the beatings. Very often, transsexuals who are not allowed to play with girls and don't want to play with boys will turn to "what's so", learning to read non-fiction books, with more interest in science, history, geography, and how things work. They often also develop an interest in poetry, writing, or music, since this provides activities which can be enjoyed with both boys and girls.

Other transgenders, those who are more to the 2 or 3 side, are more likely to start cross-dressing later in life, often on a dare, a lost bet, or a Halloween costume. They enjoy the feel of the clothes, enjoy the experience, and have fun with it, but the initial experience is more like a joke, something they did for fun, and liked it. Since they don't have negative experiences of being male, they are often quite happy playing with boys, getting into sports, even fighting, and just considering it all part of becoming a man. Often, they will keep their dressing a secret, or when they dress in public, such as for Halloween, will try to make a joke of it, wearing obviously large boobs, a rag mop wig, leaving all the hair on their bodies, and even showing their muscles and sporting 5 O-Clock shadows. Even when dressing in private, they don't make any attempt to "pass".

Meanwhile, the transsexual, fearing the hostile environment and persecution of peers, the rejection of those he is attracted to, and faced with prolonged periods of loneliness, will often become an expert at "Acting". In many cases, they almost become a caricature of masculinity. Often, they have few very close friends, and most people sense their dishonesty. I often think of the image of Eddie Haskel in "Leave it to Beaver". He would come in and say "That's a very lovely dress you're wearing Mrs Cleaver", almost blurting out "I wish I could wear it", yet Eddie was also the one who would tell Wally and Beaver to lie about everything. Much of this was because in the life of a transsexual every breath they take is a lie.

Usually, by the time both are in high school, it's nearly impossible to tell them apart. The transsexual has become a very skilled actor, and could easily work as an undercover cop. The cross-dresser has also become very skilled at hiding his desire to cross-dress. Both may appear homophobic, or homosexual. Both may appear to like a wide range of things, including music, theater, and even dance. Both may appear to be dating normally, and even their girl-friends couldn't tell you the difference. They may notice that something is different though. Both types of transgender male are likely to be more sympathetic to women, more appreciative of their situations, and may even be less sexually aggressive. In many cases, both will be content to go on the date, act like a gentlemen, perhaps do some kissing and heaving petting, then go home and get dressed up to finish themselves off. Women sometimes misinterpret this as being homosexual or at least not interested. The cross-dresser wants to wear her dress, the transsexual wants to wear everything, and even have breasts as large as hers.

Even the sexual fantasies are very similar. Both may have fantasies about being seduced by a beautiful woman who thinks they are a beautiful woman. They may imagine spending lots of time caressing and brushing against each other, kissing and petting. Then things may shift - for the full blown transsexual, the woman pulls off her dress to expose beautiful women's parts. The cross-dresser or the 2-4 transgender will imagine that she discovers boy parts and is delighted to find them.

Often transsexuals will try to minimize their boy parts, keeping things as small as possible, keeping things tucked in. Often they will try to prevent the testes from producing testosterone, this may involve "poaching" (sitting in a bath as hot as you can stand to prevent production of semen and testosterone), "strangling" with string or rubber bands to cut off circulation. Other techniques include gaffs, ice, and packing everything up in very tight underwear to make them disappear.

Cross-dressers will often try to encourage their boy parts, even trying to make themselves bigger, stretching, even using vacuum devices. They want to be seen as a woman by their fantasy woman, but when the critical time comes, they want to be as "man" as they can possibly be.

Often, the lines are blurred and crossed, many times. The cross-dresser may take on the traits of a transsexual and the transsexual may try to take on the traits of the cross-dresser.

Perhaps the biggest "tell" is when either is confronted with NOT being able to express as their fantasy gender. To the cross-dresser, it's more like a fun "hobby", and they may even deliberately "purge", wishing to resume "normal" life, without consequence. If their spouse tells them to stop, they are willing to do so, and do their best to adjust. They may eventually succumb again, but it's not a serious problem for them to stop.

The transsexual on the other hand, really struggles with forced conformity. Often, when going through puberty, as their body gets hairy and their voice drops and they get too big for clothes worn by other women in their family, they become hopeless and despondent. Often, they become self destructive, even suicidal. They may drink heavily, turn to drugs, even go into frequent black-outs, not remembering what they did the night before. Transsexuals are more likely to try and do an "accidental overdose", or may turn to poisons and strangulation. They are much less likely to chose firearms. Often, they won't tell anyone what they have done, and even when they mark themselves, such as cutting, slitting wrists, or ligature marks, they will hide them well and won't discuss it with anyone, even their closest friends.

What the ENTIRE LGBT community has in common is the experience of having to keep their deepest and strongest desires, their sexuality, and their most powerful and motivating fantasies, a deep dark secret. They often experience dire consequences when they make the mistake of revealing these desires.

We also experience some of the same guilt, shame, and fear of discovery. Often, this includes our current relationships. We may feel that we have to keep our secrets, even from our partners, because not only could they reject us, they could make our secrets public and start the cycle of persecution and abuse all over again. Even the cross-dresser experiences this fear, because he has seen the persecution and suffering inflicted on others who are discovered or "outed" involuntarily.

Often, those who are transgendered try to conform, hoping that moving in with a new partner, sex on a regular basis with a desirable partner, and/or marriage will somehow bring them the satisfaction and eliminate their need to be transgendered. Often, children bring not only the joys and pleasures of being a parent, but also the additional burden of having to keep everything even more of a secret. Not only is there the fear of losing the spouse, but there is the added fear of losing the children, child support, and possibly even loss of visitation if ever discovered.

And I really wonder if we would be welcomed and supported by them. Do they even want to include us under the "transgender" umbrella if we're not considering transitioning?

The answer is yes, absolutely! When I was in high school, I did get connected with the gay community. They weren't quite sure what was going on, but they knew there was something different. I felt supported in the community because there was much more sexual honesty, more understanding of the diversity of sexuality, including sexual preference as well as sexual preferences.

When I was 18, I was invited to a gay bar, where I was told I would be kept safe. While there I met my first drag queen, but I also met my first transgender MtF in the process. I began to learn that there were many different kinds of dressers, including drag queens, transvestites, and cross-dressers. I still had not yet met a transsexual, and she-males were still far too scarce (1974).

Later, in college, members of the gay community figured it out and tried to give me some magazines of transvestites. This was back in 1974, so there were no she-males in these publications, and I hoped that I wasn't as awkward looking as the men in the pictures, but I realized that they were trying to tell me that they knew, and that it was OK.

More importantly, I was at a nearly all-girl school, and once they figured out some aspect of what I was, they began to accept me as "One of the girls", even giving me tips on hygene, grooming, and helping me to look and move more graceful and feminine. I still struggled, partly because I was still a virgin (from the waist down), but I also began reading publications like Penthouse Letters and Variations, along with other publications based on stories and experiences.

Later, it was a gay sponsor who helped me do my inventory for my 12 step program, a turning point that led to 33 years of continuous sobriety/clean time (and counting).

When I finally went public, and I went to a gender therapist, I was encouraged to go to gay meetings. There I was able to discuss how it felt to be "different" with people who could understand. I met both gay men and lesbians as well as bisexuals who were able to understand, and to be supportive in very real ways. It wasn't about getting "picked up", it was about talking about things that I had kept secret for decades (about 30 years), and hearing the experience, strength and hope of others who had kept their own secrets, who came out, and who struggled with the secrets.

I was also encouraged to go to women's meetings, where I was able to listen to, and share, about my feelings, what it felt like to be vulnerable, to feel forced to live a life of secrets. I was able to share my feelings of fear, shame, guilt, fear of discovery, frustration at having to keep the secret from those I loved. I was able to be supported by the other women, as a woman.

Perhaps the strangest request was that I go to some biker meetings. It turned out that there were many bisexual women who were also rebels, and found the prospect of someone like Debbie quite appealing.

So many transgenders, especially men, struggle in loneliness and solitude for so long. The LGBT community has so much to offer in terms of support, including at the personal, social, community, and political levels. When I first came out in 1988, in Denver Colorado, I had no rights as a member of the LGBT community. I could be harassed into quitting a job I loved, because even though I wasn't gay, I was "perceived" as gay because I dressed. My wife could have an affair with my full knowledge, and then divorce me, because even though I wasn't actually gay, I was "perceived" not only as gay, but as a "pervert", unfit to be around the children I had raised for almost 10 years.

Thanks to the actions of the LGBT community, I have rights in many states. In New Jersey I am legally allowed to use bathrooms, dressing rooms, and other public facilities regardless of my birth gender, especially when presenting as female. My job is protected by state and federal employment laws, my employer has a pro diversity program which encourages employment of LGBT members.

This doesn't give me licence, or "special protection", I still have to work as hard, or harder than others, but at least I don't have to worry that even if I produce extraordinary results for my employer, a homophobic supervisor will make my work-life a living hell simply because I have worn a dress on the weekend.

For those of us in our late 50s, we can remember a time when even going out dressed in public could get you arrested, thrown into a jail cell with a bunch of men, and the guards would laugh as the others in the cell took turns at you.

So YES the answer is absolutely YES, the LGBT community is a HUGE asset to ALL transgender people, be they tom-boys or occasional cross-dressers.

I'm a guy that likes to express his femininity by dressing as a woman. That's as far as it goes for me. It makes me happy. I believe there's nothing wrong with doing so. I'd like to join forces with the LGBT community, as there's strength in numbers, and they've made tremendous strides in gaining acceptance.

Keep in mind that there was once a time when you could have been arrested for cross-dressing, even in private. If you wife caught you, or you were photographed, you might have been labeled a sex offender and you would have no rights in a divorce proceeding. You would be forced to pay both full Alimony and full Child Support, you could be denied all visitation rights, and could have been not only fired, but black-listed. This also made blackmail a bigger problem, because anyone who knew your secret could force you to do almost anything or you risked having every aspect of your life destroyed.

I'd like to expand their horizons, bolster their influence, and contribute to their voter base... all by adding two letters... LGBTCD ...

There have been many letters added to the end, including LGBTQ, which stands for Queer or "Gender-Queer" which includes the spectrum of people who choose to present as BOTH genders. Fundamentally, however, the term LGBT was intended to be as inclusive as possible. The Bisexual covers the widest possible range of sexual preferences and Transgender covers the widest possible range of sexual identities.

Is that really so hard?

Thoughts?

It is our nature as people who have lived so much of our lives in secret, the nature of those who still feel that they must keep their secrets from many of those closest to them in their lives. It is our nature to feel that we are excluded from everything and everyone, that we are so different that we could never be accepted or loved. Some of us will never be truly free to be truly honest with everyone in our lives about who and what we are. However, we can realize that others in the LGBT community have shared those feelings at different points in their lives, that they have experienced the same sense of isolation, and that we are ALL striving for the safety of never having to live our lives in mortal fear that our secrets will be discovered.

[Marleena]

The LGB has their shit together. The T part seems to be a mess. Oh well.

[Angela Campbell]

If a group cannot even accept a name - description - then how can they be supported by any group like LGBT? Like it or not the T is for everyone here. (except for the GG's)

[Rogina B]

Funny thing is the "B" slides on through! The only way you can show it to the world is to have a guy kissing on you from one side and a girl kissing on you from the other while walking in the Pride parade! Think about it! That is why it slides through! And Q covers everything that isn't covered by the other initials..nothing derogatory about it..

[linda allen]

...... Queer encompasses Crossdressers, as well as plenty of other people who have fetishes and various other things that scare middle america! ...........

You're kidding, right? Or you've lost your mind. Queer is a slang tern for homosexuals. Not a nice term either.

Many, perhaps most crossdressers are heterosexual males.

Many years ago, it meant "odd". Most folks don't use it that way any more.

[Kimberly Kael]

I've always felt that we were excluded from the lgbt community for the simple reason that the majority of us aren't gay.

... and you think the situation is different for anyone else under the transgender umbrella? A lot of the trans women I know are straight, but they're still proudly associated with the LGBT community. Building trust with anyone who is different requires a little effort and there are challenges on both sides. There are crossdressers who are obviously homophobic, and LGB individuals who can't relate their struggle to crossdressers. So what? If CDers can't build ties with the rest of the LGBT community, they have zero hope of bridging the chasm with typical straight folk.

No, I don't believe so. I am a straight male crossdresser. Nothing "transgender" about me.

Your gender expression is exclusively associated by most of society with the gender opposite your identity. That transgression of gender norms is what puts you in the transgender category for most.

xxxxgender is about the gender (expression)

It's not just about gender expression, which is where the obvious area where CDers differ from their vanilla peers. It's also about gender identity, which is often what distinguishes the transitioning subset of our community from those who don't really identify strongly opposite their assigned gender. Both are generally included in the transgender umbrella.

The term transsexual is interesting because it describes an aspect of sexual identity, not orientation. It's accurate enough in my case, but I tend to prefer transgender because my sexuality is completely irrelevant in most contexts. When it is relevant the identity "lesbian" seems to suit me best.

[vanitysumers]

crossdressers or part of the transgendered community

[Julie Bender]

I'm right with you all the way up to the last paragraph, Rebecca. For me, I'm not looking to expand anyone's horizons or contribute to their voter base. I simply try to positively effect those that I come into contact with,whoever they may be. Being able to move about freely, without the fear of intimidation or threats is about as deep as I go on any grand scheme of acceptance. Great question though. Thanks.

Well said sheilagirl! So combine yours & rebeccalynne's statements and it's accurate.
I am G G and I have enjoyed dressing my cd but honestly i read all the time about girls and their s/o getting jumped for it beaten etc....I don't want straights to be uncomfortable either but we need to be able to walk out of a grocer safely it has up or what we do as we go about our days.

[Tracii G]

See what always happens nobody can agree on anything.Seems too many are are hung up on what label refers to them and can't see the whole picture.
How can you ever get anywhere if you alienate yourself from a group/groups that are offering help and willing to give you a voice and a platform to be heard?
If you are so displeased start a group of your own tailored to your out look and go from there.
Julie Bender I agree with you it should be that way but sadly its not in some places.Thats where a group that can effect legislation can help.
It worked in my town.

[Rogina B]

I'm out, proud and feel part of the movement to treat everyone as equals, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity / expression. I felt very much accepted at the Pride parade here in San Antonio on Saturday. The more we can be open and set good examples, the more we will find ourselves tolerated under the law and eventually accepted by society. I don't care what acronyms people prefer; we are all queer in some way!

I totally agree! People have got to work past their personal hangups and see the "bigger picture" that leads toward more acceptance by those that have an intolerant mindset.

[Julie Bender]

Wow debbiel! Thank you for the insight!
Much love
Julie

[Leona]

I think that if you have any part of you, large or small, that considers yourself someone of the opposite gender or of a gender that's not male or female, you should adopt the label "transgender" as a political label, regardless of how well you do or don't identify with it.

As far as politics are concerned, we need the self-identified transgender population to skyrocket to somewhere near an accurate number. We need to stay allied with the LGB part. And we need to have some of our own initiatives where we bring the LGB and other folks along as allies, with attention on us.

We each need to do the little things that make a difference in our immediate world. In the other thread, that would mean Kimberly would have said something to the older lady about wanting to stay in the women's department (I realize she got taken by surprise, not judging what she did, just pointing it out as an example). If you see someone wearing something you like, say it. If that means saying you'd like to wear it yourself, go right ahead. If that person is a GG, she'll be flattered and probably curious about you. You've just handed her some acceptance. If that person is a CD or in any other way TG, you've just outed yourself to them and given them an opportunity to either continue passing or go ahead and out themselves to you. You've just opened the closet door a tad.

We need to recognize that the MTF side is the more visible side right now and make sure not to leave our FTM brothers hanging.

It's really very simple at a certain point. If you want your rights, you need to throw in with the T in LGBT because that's who's fighting for your rights. If you don't care about yours, but do want freedom and equality for all, you can stay in the closet and be a straight ally. But at this point in history, whether you want to be an activist or not, your life and the life of all who come after us could very well depend on whether you sit on the sidelines or jump in. So think carefully about what you decide.

[Greenie]

You're kidding, right? Or you've lost your mind. Queer is a slang tern for homosexuals. Not a nice term either.

Many, perhaps most crossdressers are heterosexual males.

Many years ago, it meant "odd". Most folks don't use it that way any more.

The word queer can still be derogatory but is being reclaimed and often times LGBT will end with a q so LGBTQ. Queer in the reclaimed sense stands for anyone who is sexually different but may or may not mean gay. Queer covers any type of gender or sexual attitudes that are outside of the mainstream. Unfortunately is has had a negative connotation but the queer community is trying to take it back to redefine what it used to be. You can be Queer and still have a heterosexual orientation if you have unusual sexual or gender identities, philosophies or habits. This is why some fetishes are considered queer. Linda, while I can see your immediate dislike of the term, its kind of like how "gay" is a slang term now. Words have lifespans and I think queer is coming back around. It was used as commonplace at the pride festival I went to. Not as derogatory.

[Julie Gaum]

A volunteer please to tell me what "cisgender" means. The term seems to be used more often recently but I fail to find it in my gender dictionary.
To those who believe that the CD community must remain in the folds of the LBGT and not seek understanding of our own uniqueness by
fighting our own battle BECAUSE we either can't agree what and why we are what we are OR because too many of our sisters, for good or not so good reasons, want to remain all or partially in the closet --- may I ask why, after all the giant strides made in recent years by the LGBTs, that only one professional football, basketball or baseball player has come out publicly as being gay? Think about that!
Julie
Thought for the day: "Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."
HAPPY 4th!

[Leona]

cisgender simply means people who live in the binary gender system and identify with their assigned-at-birth gender. Someone else here used "muggles" for the same meaning.

The position I put forward is that we continue the alliance with LGB's while taking our own actions independent of the alliance for our own sake. I read your post and it seems like you're suggesting that this "compromise" position of mine is in disagreement with your own position. Are you suggesting severing that alliance and going on our own?

[Julie Gaum]

Leona, First thanks for the cis definition-appreciated. Sorry if I was vague ---just wanted to keep it brief, but no I agree with you fully that we have to keep some sort of alliance even after that day comes when CDs can branch out to explain why they are different from LGs. As Rog pointed out the Bs sort of fall betwen the cracks as they may also be in the CD community. As far as the "Ts" are concerned there we have a problem in definition since originally it stood for "Transsexual" in the context of GLBT. Eventually I would hope that the "T" goes back to meaning TS and the TGs would be our platform. For the member who thinks that defining the motives behind the huge diversity we find in TGs is just BS and the flailing of arms may I ask you to consider working publicly to eliminate the entire population calling themselves G or L or B or T and just lump them altogether and call them "the different people"? Silly isn't it?
Julie