CD in a bikini at a restaurant

[PaulaQ]

So I was out last night with a friend of mine after support group. I saw several other trans / CD girls while I was out at dinner with her, but one who struck me was a (I'd assume but could be wrong) CD who was wearing a bikini, and a very lacy bikini cover, a blonde wig, and (really cute) sandals. As best I could tell, she wasn't wearing forms, because the bikini top was pretty flat, and the bikini bottoms were kind of saggy in the back side (I saw her from that direction first), and overly tight in the front. (i.e. banana hammock). I hate to be critical, and honestly in the neighborhood we were in (gay district in Dallas) pretty much anything goes, but her presentation wasn't great. She looked like an old guy in a bikini. (Her sandals really were very cute though.)

I'd have walked over and started a conversation with her, because I was curious, but my friend was really down, and so I stayed with her and tried to talk her out of her depression. Would it have been appropriate to approach her and talk to her about it? ("Hey, I'm Paula, I'm new to the neighborhood. Wow, you are really dressed for the weather out there! Wish I could pull that off!... Love your sandals!") I'd have been nice - but I found her presentation to be kind of jarring, and I like to think I'm getting used to this stuff.

Would that have been appropriate? I haven't encountered anyone before out in public who didn't seem to be trying to pass, but who seemed to be deliberately trying to get attention. (She was the only one in the restaurant in a bikini.)

What would motivate someone to do that? Would you, as a CD, do something like that? (It was cool in the neighborhood we were in - seriously, about anything but public nudity goes.)

I will be honest I found it a little shocking. I slapped the shit out of the part of me that was a little shocked, but I guess since I had the reaction, I thought I'd post about it and try to maybe get some understanding, since I didn't get a chance to talk to her myself. (I almost went over to her, but my friend really was in a bad place, and feeling rejected, and telling her "hey hon, hang on a second, you are important, but I gotta go talk to this random stranger for a minute..." would've been wrong.)

I'm NOT trying to start anything or stir anything up, and I'm not trying to judge anyone, except maybe myself, because I wasn't entirely happy with my gut reaction.

[ReineD]

Would that have been appropriate?

No. She knows that she is dressed in an unconventional way, IMO she doesn't need questioning comments that barely mask shock or disapproval.

What motivates her for dressing the way she does? The answers are as varied as there are individuals who dress like that. If you hang out in GLBT clubs a lot, you'll see people dressed in many ways that you would not adopt for yourself. I dare say though that fundamentally, they dress that way because they find it personally appealing. She likely would look at the stereotypical Sunday-school teacher or librarian looks and find those looks unappealing. lol

[PaulaQ]

What's the point of trying to get attention then, if nobody is brave enough to give you any? I felt kinda bad for looking and then not talking to her. I thought her presentation was kinda jarring, but I didn't disapprove, I would've picked a different wig, swimsuit, and probably had a cute clutch purse to match the sandals. (Those really were cute.)

I'm just didn't expect to see swimwear not at the pool or beach. I'd have noticed a GG in a bikini there too, and been surprised by that, although not as jarred.

Apparently I need to hang out in my new neighborhood more.

I did feel a little bad she was eating alone, I thought about inviting her over to our table.

[Lexi_83]

Go to a gay pride parade. That might be a " Top 10 - but just barely.

[Kelly DeWinter]

I think putting it in perspective is the thing to do, Anyone who has gone to the beach has seen 'the old woman in a bikini" or the 'old man in a speedo', or the 'fill in the blank' in a fill in the blank.

Would you go up to them and say 'Nice sandles ?'

There are degrees of dress , then there are degrees of dress, If YOU want acceptance in what you wear, you have to accept other too.

[mikiSJ]

Maybe she is an exhibitionist and the 'shock' value is what she is after and not conversation.

She probably got all of the attention she was after, at least from you, and mostly likely a lot of other folk in the restaurant.

I thought her presentation was kinda jarring, but I didn't disapprove,

Well, actually you kinda did disapprove and actually, it is okay to disapprove. You don't have to accept everyone and everyone's actions; unless they are getting into your space and then you can speak up about their actions.

[abigailf]

If you asked her why she was dressed like that, she would say "because I can". Hey more power to her and don't feel bad about finding it jarring. I've seen GG's on the beach in a bikini that got a worse reaction out of me. Hey, I plan to be in a bikini (at a beach, pool or wherever) until I'm ninety. Why, because I can.

[DebbieL]

Think about how you would like to be approached. I think if you had started with "I really love your sandals", opening with a compliment and giving her the opportunity to react positively, you might have been able to start up a nice conversation, maybe even made a new friend.

Best NOT to open with anything that draws attention to their real gender or how they "pass". They may feel they are passing, and your comment might send them into the house in despair. Conversely, they may have been gender-queer and would have been upset if you had tried to claim they were passing.

Women use this tactic frequently, especially when they want to interact with a woman they may not be entirely comfortable with. The complement creates the opening to start a conversation, or if they are busy, to just say "thank you very much" and go back to whatever they were doing.

You need to offer others this same freedom. You need to know that you'd like to talk to them, that you are safe and they not going to try to upset you, or draw attention to the fact that you are a guy in girls clothes. Even if you know you don't pass, having someone point to you like the elephant in the room and critique your appearance or call extra attention to the fact that you are not the girl you appear to be, but are in fact a guy, is a really bad thing to do to anyone.

By calling the attention of others to their conflicting gender, you make them a target to people who might otherwise not notice, or might be willing to ignore it, but when it's pointed out, end up going off in a religious tirade. You may not be aware of this, but there are some people who can become very DANGEROUS once all doubt is removed.

I'm not the prettiest girl at the airport, but when I'm "flying pretty", I don't really want people calling extra attention to my male gender. This would include referring to me as "sir", or "Mr B". One night, I was checking into my hotel. I had flown pretty and drove to the hotel pretty. There were half-dozen bikers in the lobby, checking me out, but not very carefully. The clerk kept using my full first name, and after about the 4th time, I was ready to just turn around and call another hotel. He had made me a target to a half-dozen bikers, and based on the number of bikes in the lot, there were at least another dozen nearby.

I quickly took my suitcases to my room, and went to get some ice, and some guys at the pool started pointing at me and laughing. I got the ice and ran up the stairs as quickly as I could, all three floors. I'd stayed at that hotel a dozen times, and the clerk knew to use the presentation gender, or not refer to gender. They would quietly check my ID and credit card, and let me know I was welcome. I'd passed that pool dozens of times without ever being noticed. I almost made arrangements for a different hotel that night.

Fortunately, I went to work before the bikers got up, and when I got back, the bikers were all gone, including their Harleys. Had one of the bikers given me a compliment, and then given me the opportunity, I might have been willing to talk to them. But now that I was a target for the "point and laugh" crowd, my safety was at stake.

There have been a few times when I would get a complement, usually on my ring, and start a conversation that would last 20-30 minutes, and we'd talk about everything. Even to the very end of the conversation, they never let on that I was anything other than a woman. THAT'S how I like to be treated.

[PaulaQ]

Best NOT to open with anything that draws attention to their real gender or how they "pass". They may feel they are passing, and your comment might send them into the house in despair. Conversely, they may have been gender-queer and would have been upset if you had tried to claim they were passing.

I would never deliberately misgender someone or call attention to their birth gender - if someone presents as female, that's good enough for me. I'll be honest though, I have no clue how to navigate pronouns for the gender-queer.

Saw you looking at me... You should have come over for a chat !

Well now I'm really sorry that I didn't. If I see you again (or you see me), let's chat. I live in the area now, and am out to dinner at least a night or two each week. (Tuesday nights are almost always a given, I go to a support group that night.) I really would've come over last night, but my friend was really upset about various things, and I felt like my undivided attention was needed.

[AllieSF]

Paula, I always try to talk with the "Odd Person" in the room, bar or wherever, whenever the opportunity arises. I always have a nice approach, usually humorous and depending on the response of that person, I may end up having a decent conversation. San Francisco, as well as Berkeley across the Bay and home to the University of California - Berkeley, are well known for there naked people that like to walk the streets, like the main streets, I have run into and talked with several in the Castro district of SF. One in particular was on television as he and others were protesting, in the nude of course, to try to prevent the city from enacting an ordinance that would limit when they could parade around naked. totally nude except for maybe boots, hat and vest.

I just recently seen the Broadway play, Priscilla: Queen of the Desert, with some GG friends of mine. A very tall transgendered girl was sitting right in front of me. She was dressed in an obvious costume, along the lines of the plays theme - drag queens. I eventually found the opportunity to talk with her, compliment her on her cool tats, a bunch of black line empty circles on her shoulder and upper arm and a very long tattooed word, which she told me after I asked was "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" (however that is spelled - Oh, spell check just corrected it for me!) that went from the front to back around her left shoulder. It really was cool. Her outfit was made up of a strapless plastic mini dress. Later when she got up for the intermission, I helped adjust the back of the plastic dress because it was sagging below the back bra strap.

So, if you have the time and opportunity, and the ability to carry it off, I would say go for it and start a conversation. We just need to realize that a lot of people are not looking for another CD or "T" something friend, but do not mind talking to others if the conversation is fun and non-probing at the beginning. We do not need to say,, "Hey, I dress too" if we are in drab mode. Just talk and enjoy.

PS: Did Stephy's post get deleted, because I cannot find the post that you quoted from?

[PaulaQ]

PS: Did Stephy's post get deleted, because I cannot find the post that you quoted from?

Possibly my leg was being pulled. Or perhaps she got cold feet. I dunno. But yeah, it disappeared for me too.

Thanks for your inputs, Allie

[Beverley Sims]

Paula,
I too get the cultural cringe on occasions.
In areas were it is expected and accepted okay.
I would not approach the person unless we had made more than eye contact.
I also would not wear clothes that would have me clocked.

[Lynn Marie]

Although I'll never "pass" close scrutiny, I will always do my absolute best to make a classy presentation. Pretty much all my CD girlfriends feel the same way. I'm in good company. Therefore I too am "jarred" by what may seem to me to be an inappropriate presentation. It bothers me because I feel it reflects poorly on me and the transgender community, but I'm not a fashion cop, just a classy old broad trying to make her way down town in heels that are just a tad too high!

[Princess Chantal]

Think about it, this person's choice of presentation (appearance wise) could actually do more good than harm for the transgender community..... How diverse is the transgender community and wouldn't acceptance of the whole community be awesome?

I tend not to be jarred by appearance of people, but the behaviour and actions of people that I deem negative could trigger the jarring feeling.

[BillieAnneJean]

Paula,
You were thoughtful to stay with your friend. A quality perhaps sadly in short supply today.

Is he doing better?
Billie

[Tina B.]

Paula, hope your friend is feeling better, now as far as the old gals bikini. Just yesterday, I was watching a TV show called mirror, mirror, they did a whole segment on how to take a bathing suit, with cover up from daytime at the pool, to night out. They showed many cover ups, and how to dress them up, maybe she saw it too, and was experimenting. we should never let ourselves get to judgmental, after all when your out, someone is judging you too!

[Chickhe]

I look at it this way... most people dress respectfully. Is it decent to wear a bathing suit to any resturant? Not really... But, people can wear what they want and maybe that's the point she was trying to make. The only concern I have is that someone like that may want attention and may claim discrimination when its actually not appropriate if they were asked to leave. Anyway, it is the resturant that makes the rules, so whether you like it or not, you should respect that person for their bravery.

[ReineD]

One thing to keep in mind is the venue.

I see all sorts of sexually suggestive outfits when I'm at a nightclub, and even more so when I'm in an alternative or LGBT club or in a part of town at night that is open-minded toward LGBT folks. I think it's accepted that anything goes in places like this. So if this is where you were, Paula, I wouldn't be surprised if this person does not dress like that in his day-to-day life.

If this was at a mall on a Saturday afternoon, then I agree, this person will get a lot of stares.

[jenni_xx]

Let me get this straight.

You were judging a person based on the clothes they were wearing? Is that correct?

Forgive me, but us CD's should never judge anyone based on how they choose to express themselves.

[Jaylyn]

I am so not believing I am writing this but here goes.... (Conservative religious, upbringing and mellowing in old age) to each his own. There I said it. Wow am I changing my attitude on a lot of things. Why would any one care if the cd was not breaking any laws but was expressing himself in a bikini. I'm definitely not the fashion police and I might have in my younger days threw the first stone but as I have aged and my male hormones are not as many I say who gives a rip. I just may be the next old man in the speedo on the beach. Although I'm nearly 64 I still think like a teenager at heart except I'm not as judge mental of any one any more. Heck how can I judge any ones attire I am a CD and love wearing deep thick makeup. I bet if you look at yourselves on here there are a lot of folks that will agree with me. My perspective of the worlds out look has changed a lot the older I have gotten. I am finding its what's inside a person is what matters not what or what they are wearing. JMHO

[Lorileah]

What's the point of trying to get attention then, if nobody is brave enough to give you any?

Oh, trust me she noted all the attention she got... was this near a beach? Or some sort of resort? I mean really...a bikini in a restaurant? And I thought Colorado was strange wearing cowboy hats and jeans to the opera (no it wasn't a horse opera)

Let me get this straight.

You were judging a person based on the clothes they were wearing? Is that correct?

Oh c'mon...everyone does it. Women do it all the time and CDs do it all the time.

[PaulaQ]

Oh, trust me she noted all the attention she got... was this near a beach? Or some sort of resort? I mean really...a bikini in a restaurant?

Nope, not near a beach or resort. Tuesday night, 7:45PM, Dallas TX, middle of the oaklawn / cedar springs area, the main GLBT drag so to speak. Fast food Italian place. I mean, it's Texas, so there are pools all over the place, but this was the only person I saw in swimwear of any sort.

I mean, anything goes pretty much in that neighborhood, but I'm new to all this! :O (In my old neighborhood north of here, I'm fairly certain someone WOULD have called the police.)

Oh c'mon...everyone does it. Women do it all the time and CDs do it all the time.

Thanks, I didn't think I was being all that judgmental. I mean, OK, her presentation was really unflattering in my opinion. Is that a judgment? I guess - but it's not like I'm saying "she represents us badly" or "she shouldn't have been wearing that." I think she would've looked lots better in different swimwear, forms, some butt padding, some makeup, and a wig that actually made sense with her face. There really wasn't much of any other way to interpret how she looked, though, other than "wow, 60 year old guy in a bikini and a cover. Cute sandals." If that was the look she was going for though, then she rocked it, I guess, as best anyone could. BTW, I think this startled me a little more than it might otherwise have startled me, because my first impression was "holy shit - it's my granddad in a bikini." But then I remembered that he's been dead 30 years...

It may be judgmental I guess, but I do notice whether or not people look nice or not. I don't treat them any differently - some horrible people are sharp dressers, and some really sweet people make unfortunate garment choices. But I do notice. I think clothing often says something about the person wearing it, even if all it says is "I don't care about clothing - this stuff keeps my ass from getting sunburned and pockets are USEFUL!!!!"

It's not like I freak out over someone wearing white shoes after labor day, though.

[ReineD]

... the main GLBT drag so to speak.

... I mean, anything goes pretty much in that neighborhood

There you go! Likely this person doesn't dress like that when s/he does errands at the mall on Saturday afternoons.

Someone suggested that you attend the next gay pride parade. You'll see a lot of people dressed like that there.

[PaulaQ]

@ReineD

well, I live in the neighborhood now, so I think I'm in the parade 24/7 now.

I'm sure I'll get used to this, I've never really spent any time in this part of town. There's a lot I don't know, lol. Nothing so far really bothers me, but it's a big change from the super conservative places I've lived before!

[ReineD]

I felt the same way when I began my exposure to this community. I had never noticed there was such a great diversity until I began going to gay & T friendly parts of town. It's a world that few people outside the community know exists.