The Mind is a Dangerous Thing

[kimdl93]

Veronica, there is nothing marginalizing about my comment cited above. If you saw something that marginalized CDrs who are not closer to the TS side of the spectrum, then I have to believe that its in your perceptions and prejudices rather than in the words I used.

[Soriya]

I like to think that I'm fairly objective, since I don't have a personal stake in it either way but honestly, I never take it that TSs are "looking down" on CDers.

This is what I do see: Most people speak from their own personal perspective, which is really the only thing they know. So if someone used to identify as a CD and now identifies as a TS, she will likely think this is the path for others. Or, if someone is gender fluid, they will tend to think that others in this community are gender fluid too. Don't forget, we are talking about things that cannot be seen (basic motives) so really it's up to anyone to define it as they will, mostly in terms that make sense to them personally.

To Veronica, I wouldn't waste my time arguing, since this makes a CDer seem defensive. Just state who you are and then move on.

... but keep in mind that you are indeed a part of this community, by virtue of the fact that you present as a woman. You do fall under the overall transgender umbrella, even though you identity solidly as a man. You are not "gender normative", which for men, is a biological male who identifies as a male (like you), who lives as a male (like you), and who presents as a male (unlike you).

I couldn't have said it better myself Reine. This to me is what can make social media outlets of any kind very dangerous. I used to be more active here with posting in my efforts to figure myself out and did a good job not absorbing others experiences as fact for myself but also realized I was taking on the opposite approach and sharing what I learned about myself thinking it was the same for others and they just didn't see it. I didn't realize I was doing it thus when I did I put the brakes on as in the end I wasn't helping myself.

[Marleena]

You have been here a long time haven't you?

I don't know why this keeps coming up and it gets to the same point where nothing is decided and everyone is angry.

Niagara Falls gets the same response as Transgender.

[Frédérique]

Why do semantics keep having to be redefined over and over? This horse is not only dead it is decaying. I am sorry a few here seem to think they are being disenfranchised. I don't agree with everyone here either. But if you don't like the playground, don't use the swings.

Your frustrated reticence over semantics, or any kind of insightful knowledge, expressed ad nauseum, is working against you, if you must know. To you, the “horse” is dead, but to others, like myself, we have barely scratched the surface around here. A lot of people simply don’t care to discuss things beyond their daily routine, that’s all. I like the playground, and I want to use the swings, but, because we are under such intense surveillance at all times, any fun we might have is problematic…

I don’t think you’re sorry that some of us feel disenfranchised – try to "convince" me otherwise…

[Marleena]

@ Veronica, I'm not sure why you called out some of us as intolerant? Have you ever read my posts? I almost always get along with everybody, I'm actually put off by people who are quick to judge others. Freddy admitted his thread was about TG versus CD mindsets. Almost all of Freddy's threads are about lack (or perceived) lack of respect for Cders and/or being called TG.

Some of us have a hard time figuring out why some MTF's are angry about being called transgender. It's a modern word for all MTF's. The general public only sees what they believe to be a guy in a dress. How do we explain to them that person could be about 10 different gender or other labels?

[ReineD]

Marleena, at the risk of complicating things, how exactly are you using the term MTF? In the TS sense, or in the CDer sense (as in the name of this section, MTF Crossdressing), or as an overall TG Umbrella sense to describe everyone who is not male gender normative?

[Marleena]

lMAO @ Reine! Okay.... here's some techno babble as my explanation.

While people self-identify as transgender, the transgender identity umbrella includes sometimes-overlapping categories. These include transsexual; transvestite or cross-dresser; genderqueer; androgyne; and bigender.[24] Usually not included are transvestic fetishists (because it is considered to be a paraphilia rather than gender identification), and drag kings and drag queens, who are performers who cross-dress for the purpose of entertaining. In an interview, celebrity drag queen RuPaul talked about society's ambivalence to the differences in the people who embody these terms. "A friend of mine recently did the Oprah show about transgender youth," said RuPaul. "It was obvious that we, as a culture, have a hard time trying to understand the difference between a drag queen, transsexual, and a transgender, yet we find it very easy to know the difference between the American baseball league and the National baseball league, when they are both so similar."[25] These terms are explained below.

The current definitions of transgender include all transsexual people, although this has been criticized. (See below.) Intersex people have genitalia or other physical sexual characteristics that do not conform to strict definitions of male and/or female, but intersex people are not necessarily transgender, since they do not all disagree with their assigned sex at birth. Transgender and intersex issues often overlap, however, because they both challenge the notion of rigid definitions of sex and gender.

The term trans man refers to female-to-male (FtM or F2M) transgender people, and trans woman refers to male-to-female (MtF or M2F) transgender people. In the past, it was assumed that there were more trans women than trans men, but a Swedish study estimated a ratio of 1.4:1 in favour of trans women for those requesting sex reassignment surgery and a ratio of 1:1 for those who proceeded.[26]
The term cisgender has been coined as an antonym referring to non-transgender people; i.e. those who identify with their gender assigned at birth.[27]
GLAAD notes that, when referring to a transgender person, it is respectful to always use that person's preferred name and pronoun regardless of their legal gender status (as not all transgender people can afford surgery or other body modifications). Unlike 'transsexual', the word "transgender" should be used as an adjective rather than a noun — for example, "Max is transgender" or "Max is a transgender man" rather than "Max is a transgender."[28]


Does that clear things up? lol..

[ReineD]

Marleena ... my question was rhetoric.

[Marleena]

Marleena ... my question was rhetoric.

I know I just wanted to add some definitions of what the new modern word Transgender is supposed to mean. I like what Ru Paul said there because it's so true!

[Lucy_Bella]

Yes Veronica,
We seem to have a division on this site and I think it all comes down to being labeled ..Or so it seems ..But can it also come down to ( since this is a forum ) people "Typing" thoughts? Thoughts that come from the brain so there could be a slight chance that we over look that simple answer as to why there is a division.

I personally do not believe that the brain always matches the gender you were born as,in fact recent science studies have determined through M.R.I.s that many T.S.'s do have similar brain features that match the gender they think they should have born as.. Promoting the ideal that through the typing of arguments on this board over certain threads could be just a little battling of the sexes..

I am not one to diagnose others but I do offer my two cents worth from time to time..I feel I owe the forum's members some support..But support from anyone in the form of advice or a diagnose should never be taking serious and it could cause more harm for those who are in need they should see a professional for a diagnose.. That is why every bodies input is so important and signals the members a "buyer beware" when it comes to advice..

I know this from experience as I mis diagnosed myself as a "t.g." I now know without a doubt that I am not but if labels were taken more serious on this "support site" I probably would have held off telling certain people I thought I could trust that I thought I was a T.G... Now that the cat got out of the bag from something I mentioned to someone I trusted over 3 years ago.. I am now labeled something I am not from people who have no clue about any of this at all .. These are closed minded people who only see what I do as nothing but evil ..People can be hateful and secrets do find their way back to loved ones who I would have rather told myself ,in my own way having a better understanding of myself..

Yes it is important to have open discussions about our differences but in a peaceful way..If we can not accept our own differences here how can we expect others to understand..

[Frédérique]

Freddy admitted his thread was about TG versus CD mindsets. Almost all of Freddy's threads are about lack (or perceived) lack of respect for Cders and/or being called TG.

NOT true (I can prove it), and I will thank you to address me as HER on this particular site, if you please…

Besides, if we get back to the title of this thread, wouldn't you agree that "A mind is a terrible thing to waste?" Have you ever heard that before? If we're not going to be allowed to discuss issues that pertain to crossdressing, what's the point of having a discussion forum for crossdressers?

[PaulaQ]

think many here suffer from a milder form of what TS suffer from, one that can be controlled with CDing. This makes them lucky. But they also have real problems, real issues, and real pain because of it, and many of the problems faced are common to both the CD and TS individual. ...I think your premise, that there is some magical difference between "just a CD" who's convinced themselves they are a female and a transsexual is ridiculous. How can you possibly tell the difference between the two? I know many girls in transition who thought they were "just a CD". A LOT of TS girls would love it if they were "just a CD".

This attitude, which prevails on this forum among the more frequent and aggressive posters, does tend to marginalize those who crossdress, and is very demeaning. It talks down to crossdressers and implies that CD's do not know themselves, but not to worry, because they do.

How is it demeaning to empathize with real pain some CDs suffer - either physical violence, or the threat thereof, relationship problems, prejudice from family members, etc?

I thought I knew myself really well. Last year this time, I DID NOT identify as a female. If you'd asked me, I'd have told you "No way!" I most certainly didn't view myself as a TS at the time. It took me a while to put all that together, and I'd been sober for more than 20 years, and had been through quite a bit of counseling. I thought I knew myself really well too. Except that I didn't.

Sure, in hindsight I can see that I was TS and had buried it since a young age. But the fact is, I didn't see it right away, and just about every single poster on this forum didn't either, when I told my story in great detail earlier this year.

And that's my main problem with "there's a huge difference between a CD and a TS." Sure, once we know someone is a TS, hell yeah there is a big difference. But in terms of early symptoms, a LOT of TS people look and act just like cross dressers. I sure did. Up until this year, you'd have characterized me as a fetish dresser. I put on a couple of items (stockings), masturbated, and it was over. I didn't even do it very frequently. Turns out, though, that there was MUCH more going on. (I mentioned my misery - NOBODY on here paid attention to this, and that is really what the key was, in my case.)

It's this idea that there's a single data point we can look at to figure out what's going on with people. It's really the totality of what's going on with a person that tells the story. If you are pretty happy in life, your CDing isn't causing you much (or any) problems, and none of what you are doing seems to be progressing very much (or not at all), then yeah, I'd be inclined to agree that the odds are very much in favor of you being "just a CD." MOST of the readership of this forum are "just CDs." I have no problem saying that because it is a fact.

What I have a problem with are people who look at a behavior or two you engage in, and then assure you "well, you MUST be just a CD - look, you don't even hate your penis, and you like being a guy!" Well whoop-de-doo - I said the same shit, and look at me, here today. Without understanding that it's the negative stuff, the stuff we usually don't talk about here that is really the key to figuring out whether or not you have a gender problem, I think it's extremely dangerous to dismiss someone as "just a CD." For many, it's only obvious, in hindsight, that they are TS.

The fact that you, Veronica, don't seem to be especially miserable, and the idea of great personal misery seems pretty alien to you, and yet you CD, suggests that sure, odds are, you are "just a CD." That's fantastic, and I'm extremely happy for you. (I mean that - nobody should go through being TS.)

I do not understand what could possibly drive people to such extreme actions over gender issues, and that is why I agree that I do not understand TS. It also points out why I feel that there is a tremendous difference between CD, TG and TS. They are not simply stages on a continuum.

That's nice, but my point is that in my case, you (and everyone who looks like you on this forum) called it flat-out-wrong. Why? Because I sounded just like you. Sure, it's obvious NOW - because I put it all together, laid it out for you, and then posted "aggressively" until you all finally agreed "yeah, OK, guess Paula's a TS. Frickin weirdo..."

Are there issues other than gender involved? Are thoughts of being a gender opposite to your physical sex actually a form of hallucination? Is it worse than a debilitating birth defect or loosing your sight?

To answer your questions: No. No. Yes, it is worse than a birth defect - I can answer that. I suffer from a debilitating birth defect, a congenital deformity with my legs that has caused me tremendous pain throughout my life. The treatment for it, as a child was agonizing. The hospital I was in was underfunded and inadequately staffed. I saw just absolutely nightmarish stuff that other kids in the ward suffered from. None of that holds a candle compared to what I'm going through now. NONE of it.

I'm happy you can't imagine such misery. For those of us with the worst gender dysphoria, life is a nightmare. Imagine looking in the mirror every day of your life, and HATING the ******* who looks back at you. Imagine waking up one day, and finding that the hair that naturally grows on your body feels alien and foreign to you, as if you have a fungus growing rampant all over your skin, like a rotted piece of fruit. Imagine you are aroused one day - happens naturally - and you realize that it feels unnatural, foreign, and absolutely disgusting.

The symptoms and severity vary for everyone who suffers from it, but by the time many girls get to my age, suicide attempts are pretty common. Why would that be:
1. You really are that miserable. I'd put down an animal that suffered as I do.
2. You may feel desperately wrong and sick - but everyone tells you that YOU ARE BROKEN, that your feelings are PERVERSION. You feel immense shame. (I believe many CDs are told the same thing, right?)
3. You may have a wife, career, family that will be devastated by this - you'll lose all of it, and hurt everyone you love. The guilt is horrendous. (I believe I've heard a CD or two on this forum mention guilt)

Now for CDs, the symptoms I've heard reported of not CDing for a while are VASTLY less severe than what I report. (Moodiness, grumpiness, stress, that type of thing.) But they are negative emotional affects - for many on this forum, CDing does seem to relieve something that is bothering them. It's just not something on the same scale or severity as what I've experienced. To my mind, as long as it stays that way - you don't have much to worry about. If on the other hand, the negative stuff you experience when not CDing seems to worsen, and some of the crazy crap I mention begins to seem not so foreign, then I'd hope folks here would seek professional help, because they may well, in such a case, be more than "just a CD."

One last point - and this one is a reason I argue about these matters:

by itself does not mean that I must be harbouring an inner desire to be a woman.

Who in the **** wants to be a woman? I sure don't. I've discovered I *am* one, and trying to get my mind and body to agree on this is freaking killing me. This isn't some type of fantasy on my part. What is happening to me is destroying my life, and I am absolutely powerless to stop it. Only remedy I know of to stop it in its tracks is to end my own life. My only other choice is to accept what's happening to me, and seek medical treatment for it. The treatment is almost (almost) worse than the condition, but given my other alternative (suicide), it seems like the better choice.

I hope this explains my stance on these issues, but of course feel free to ask me questions in thread, or via PM.

I can honestly tell you that I do not mean to be demeaning, condescending or dismissive of any CDer on this forum. I feel that while their pain may be substantially less than mine (thank GOD) some here still suffer from real pain. I fail to see, for example, how a CD who's marriage is on the rocks feels less badly about it than I do, as a TS, now that my marriage is on the rocks.

[Lorileah]

This thread has run its course. The whole thing is redundant. Closed