if i can answer for myself.... as a cder, i dont feel like a woman! yes i love womens clothes, and like to look pretty. but i consider myself a man though and though. in fact with help of a local support group i myself have concluded that im happy as i aam.. incorporating my female clothes into main life. gender is after all only a mental issue.... notonly physical.
melissa
Maybe I can shed some lite on this subject, Reine. Because not only have I wondered about this subject in general, I've wondered about myself because I've been attracted to CD/trans girls and I'm straight!
Many years ago, I visited a girlieboy bar in Thailand in drab with an old male friend. One of them was particularly beautiful and fem and hung around us all nite. There was nothing about her that said, "male". Nothing. The fact that she may have had a penis turned me off, however.
Flash forward to an event I attended in LA earlier this year. I sat with a group of Tgirls. I had met a few before. However, I sat next to one I hadn't met before. And, she was very friendly. I'm pretty sure she came on to me. While not that attractive to me, she was so fem I couldn't help feeling something! It's hard for me to explain. She seemed so vulnerable. So sweet and yet sexy. The way she touched my arm and brushed against me when talking in my ear. She seemed so female to me at the time. She may have been drinking, but I wasn't. To say that I wasn't a bit turned on would be lying. It felt like I was sitting with a woman. Would I hang out with her, or another CD as fem seeming as her again? Yes, I enjoy the titillating feelings of being desired by a "woman".
My point being this: If CD/trans can act fem enuff, the male in many of us may respond. Even if we r straight. How far any of us go reacting to those impulses is a complete other subject!
Last edited by docrobbysherry; 09-23-2013 at 12:04 AM.
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
Just because you and I divide the world up that way doesn't mean that's how the labels are used by most people. I think plenty of gender-fluid people call themselves cross-dressers instead, because much of the time they identify as male, even if some of the time they actually enjoy thinking of themselves as female or feminine. Let's say 80% of the time they feel 100% male, and 20% of the time they feel 100% female, then they never feel gender-fluid at all.Originally Posted by ReineD
I'm one of those that fall into this category. To be honest, I can't explain why my leanings are such. While I find GG's very attractive, I find intimacy uncomfortable. I have had male/male gay experiences and while enjoyable, I don't think I could do so dressed enfemme. Maybe I could but unlikely. Early in my life as a cross dresser, I realised my attraction to others like me and I became comfortable with it. I have never really tried to figure it out. It doesn't matter.
I'm also hoping (hint-hint) that the CDers who did respond that they'd rather be with CDers than men, will put in theirin this thread!
But to answer your question, no I don't see CDers as men, but I know we are not women. I just see us people with the ability to embrace cross gender sensibilities. I think we all have something to share, maybe a heightened sense of humanity that strictly male and female persons don't see or refuse to see.
Respectfully, Lorileah, I'm not sure I agree with this statement entirely. Yes, it may be true to a certain extent but I think it's generalizing. If you look at the various inclinations in the gay community, you'll see all sorts of preferences that many will seek out exclusively. for example, Emo twinks with Emo twinks. Daddies with twinks. Bears with bears. Leather men with leather men. Tops who only want bottoms and vice versa.
CD's who seek out other CD's may be just another category falling under the gay umbrella. I'm not saying this is always the case, but think it surely needs to be considered before we say that "Hey, at least I ain't gay" is the explanation.
With respect.
I sometimes think I'm such a fairy
No Jess, by Gender Non-Conformist I was referring to the people who do feel a mixture of genders all the time, no matter how they are dressed. They don't feel 100% male or 100% female, they genuinely see themselves as outside the male/female gender binary. If someone feels 100% male 80% of the time, and feels 100% female 20% of the time when they dress, then of course they are CDers. That's what CDers do.
Have a look at the Sticky of trans-related definitions from a world-wide organization that defines these things, the WPATH. There's a link to the actual PDF booklet ... (although they don't discuss percentages).
Anyway, sorry folks I didn't want to continue another definition battle ... I was just trying to answer Dee's question about women and CDers who by definition do have a male identity, vs. Gender Non-Conformists who don't have strictly a male gender identity, even though they both engage in cross-gender expression.
Thanks for putting in your
Reine
OK for me.
I am bi-curious as my transformation to 100% femminity.
Being with a guy is a curiosity in being a girl... I am not really interested in guys but being a girl with a guy.
I am interested in gg's and curious in just guys not cders.
Reine, I'm not about to date anyone other than my fiancee, whether it be male, female, CD, TS, or whatever, but I may have some insight here.
I tend to treat people as what they present as, which is a carryover from my experience in Second Life (where all you see of a person is their avatar, which may be customized to the limit of their imagination, creativity, and available budget). Thus, for instance, in my meetup groups, where some of the people there may be just CDs and some may be TS, I see all of us there as women, because that's what we're presenting as. Similarly, everyone on this site that presents as female, I see as being a woman. (I've seen very few FtMs on here, but more over on Facebook. I view them all as men.) The fact that the person I'm looking at and talking to may actually have male chromosomes and organs that I can't see is not relevant; she's being a woman, so that's what she is, and (presuming I'm being Amy at the time) I will try to relate to her as one woman would relate to another. I would hope that she, in turn, would extend the same courtesy to me.
Maybe that's just my viewpoint, but it might explain what you're seeing.
- Amy
Amy Gale Ruth Bowersox (nee Tapie) - "Be who you are, and be it in style!"
Member, Board of Trustees, Gender Identity Center of Colorado
aka Amelia Storm - Ms. Majestic Hearts of All Colorado 2018-2019, Miss Majestic Hearts of All Colorado 2015-2016
Although a CD is a male I think if you plan to be sexual with the person while they are acting as a female it kind of puts them in an in between category... For example, I am bi but the reasons I enjoy being with a male or with a female I consider different, and similarly I enjoy being with a CD as a different experience than it is to be with a masculine male or feminine female... all that being said though I really don't try to put labels of any kind of people because really every person is unique in some way, and I think categorizing people can be limiting...
Reine, must we add "attracted to" to the already-long list of terms forum members can't agree on?
Yes, I'm attracted to beauty, male or female underneath. But it's just the image, not the person. Why can't some people understand this, instead of saying if you're attracted to a CDer, you're gay? "Attracted to" doesn't necessarily mean "sexually attracted to", but it could for people so inclined (they may be inclined but would rather be horizontal - haha). It could mean simply "I like how you look. I like that feminine image you are projecting whether you are really female or not. That doesn't mean I want to have sex with you".
Ummm Reine you forgot the Cders that are adamant that they are and feel male 100% of the time but just crossdress and even might go out in public enfemme.
They are out there.
Yes Reine, I'm glad that you're bringing this up for the benefit of many CDs as well as your own curiosity.So tell me what you think. Do you see CDers (not the Gender-Fluid or Transsexuals) as men or women?
The reason I want to understand this is simply because I am curious. Also judging by some of the answers in this thread, others have also asked themselves the same question.
I'm also hoping (hint-hint) that the CDers who did respond that they'd rather be with CDers than men, will put in their
I see CDs for what they are. We have a female appearance to varying degrees but only while dressed. As more of a fetish type there are many different things that can get me aroused. That would be all the fem stuff that makes a man appear to be a woman. Eliminate all that and we have the naked body of a male or female. (at this point the GG would be my choice)
As docrobbysherry alluded to some CDs are really good at playing the part of being female, while others are obviously men in women's clothing. This makes a big difference in my view because it's the fantasy that is desired. The fantasy is "we are two girls making love". The other fantasy is, "I'm a girl being seduced by a man".
So does it boils down to how a CD wants to feel sexually? Do I want to feel like a woman that attracts men or a feel like a lesbian? Of course either way it's two guys together, but the goal is to realize one's fantasy. My only attempt at this didn't turn out anywhere near what I envisioned and hoped for.
Reine, your threads always generate so many responses, probably because you are so well loved by this community!
Anyway, my 2 cents: not the least bit attracted to other cd'ers; I just wish I had a small group of GG's with which to share the feminine side of myself
Reine, I, as a man, am attracted to beauty. If either a man or a woman appeals too me then, I respond. Attraction is a preference. Some men and woman are attracted too Big Muscular Hairy men and some are attracted too smooth, soft, hairless thin men. When a man presents as a woman dresses, then, the appeal is increased. If you mix sexuality into the picture then, it becomes erotic. IMHO
Intellectually I see cd's as a mixture of both but emotionally I "feel" them as a woman. I also am drawn to other cd's because of our connection, both being cd's, members of that tribe so to speak. And I am very attracted to cd's, more so than men though I can be attracted to men as well but primarily when I am Trish. GG's, well I am attracted to them all the time.So tell me what you think. Do you see CDers (not the Gender-Fluid or Transsexuals) as men or women?
The reason I want to understand this is simply because I am curious. Also judging by some of the answers in this thread, others have also asked themselves the same question.
Totally agree and that is the point. There are some here who are "confused" as to their orientation and when they say they are only attracted to CDs and not men they add the caveat that they don't think it is gay because the object of their attraction isn't presenting as a male (bad thought but if they were at a Furry convention and they had sex would they say they are only attracted to teddy bears while dressed?). I don't care who you are attracted to (personally I have attractions for both sexes but I am more picky about men...I have a standard image there, and sorry girls, it isn't a CD), but when you KNOW that under the clothing there is a penis, then you have to KNOW that if you follow through the sex won't be heterosexual. So yes it is under the gay umbrella. Every man I have dated falls under that umbrella. hey may disagree and they do verbalize it. But they are men who are attracted to males (because so far every one has wanted the male part) who appear female but justify it in their minds as NOT being gay (or technically Bi) because the see a woman. My record so far? Two who swore they were straight and when push came to shove freaked out ( the illusion disappeared and their insecurities arose), two who broke up when they were told I was going to transition (actually said they wanted a CD with "working" parts) and one who still loves me as I am and as I will be (but I don't love him). So the first two were straight with fantasies they could not fulfill. The next two are bi even though they won't say it. The last is polyamorous and bi and proud of both
Who, if they dated another CD would be...bi...right?Ummm Reine you forgot the Cders that are adamant that they are and feel male 100% of the time but just crossdress and even might go out in public enfemme.
I have to make a note, there is a line between fantasizing about being with a guy and "wanting" to be with a man. we all fantasize, I do about certain female movie stars. It will never happen but I dream about it. If when you dress you want to be with a man and pursue that line (and please don't say so you can get the whole woman experience...it ain't gonna happen), then you have bisexual or gay tendencies.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
I don't believe people's orientation changes when dressed or not. Except maybe if you are TS, maybe your orientation is 'straight' so that would change what gender you are attracted to depending on what gender you live as. But, for myself I am straight, male who CDs and my attraction is still towards woman when I am dressed or not. But, I want to add, that at the same time, there is a fantasy element, I could go on a date with a male if it was purely for the experience of feeling feminine. We are talking conservative 'first date' here...having someone hold doors open, pull your chair out dance with you... There is no sexual attraction though, its all about feeling good, living a role for a few hours...for me anyways,.
Chickie
Only if they had sex. In other words only if they act on their fantasy or sexual attraction but then there is experimentation, if they try it and don't like it they are still straight right?
Some here are way too quick to judge others. Not meaning you either Lorileah, you get it. I don't want to call people out.
Last edited by Marleena; 09-23-2013 at 12:00 PM.
I have had "dates" with other cd'ers where we were dressed and we sat around drinking coffee and talked about clothes and femme things. On the other hand While I was dressed the one time the cd'er had adjusted my dress and the feel of their hand brushing my breast (I dont wear forms) I actually got aroused and it made me curious about being felt up by another person while dressed.
This went on as we live close by and we did visit fairly regular. While we were talking the one time I had said that I was curious about being felt up as a woman and he admitted that he was attracted to me while I was dressed and he told me he was bi-sexual. So to answer your question I feel that if you had sex with a man or crossdresser and didn't like it your were bi-curious, if you liked it it would make you bi-sexual. Either way no one should really label you or judge you.
I've had a few very enjoyable experiences with men while I've been dressed. I've never been with a CD but I think it would be a lot of fun!
To answer your question, it could be because I think of myself totally as a girl when I'm dressed. And actually most of the rest of the time too!
I'm always a woman!
Now we have to add "date" to the list of ambiguous words. Does it mean "go out with" or "have sex with"?
On another thread long ago, I posted that it would be fun to have a CDer friend to go out with, either both of us en femme or only one of us, taking turns being the girl with a man on a "date" (that is: "go out with"). I would feel more secure than going out alone, and would be happy to be the one to make the other feel more secure. An arrangement for practical reasons, and it could be a lot of fun. My gosh, it amazes me why so many people want to label others as gay, having never met the person nor knowing what's going on in their head.
Yes it is amazing..I find this place very confusing sometimes with definitions..I can only speak for myself at an attempt to answer the O.P.s question.. I find femininity attractive this is why I have the Fetish with dressing up, it's the attraction..I do not find anything ( I mean anything ) attractive about masculinity so a CDer may come across first as attractive in some cases to me, until I find out that she's a CDer ,then the attraction is gone..
Hetro sexual by definition is someone who is sexually attracted to the opposite sex it doesn't differ in Gender or Gender expression ( meaning appearing femme) ..I.E. I can find myself sexually attractive to a FTM not because of the "Gender Expression" but because of the "Sexual Preference" ..But because I am "Attracted " to Feminine features ( but not being Feminine ) ...I actually did date a FTM and didn't know until a year later.. I liked going out and doing guy stuff with her/him ( like a Tom Boy ) She didn't care what I wore I didn't care what she wore..
Last edited by Lucy_Bella; 09-23-2013 at 02:28 PM. Reason: Added
I do not!! Claim to be an expert on any topic, when I post a new thread or reply on any thread my imput is strickly that of a crossdresser. Not to offend Gay people , Transexuals or any other life style, I am only commenting on one of my own.
That is really a fun and fantastic idea! I would love to be able to do the same, but i'm quite sure that CD'ers is a huge minority in Denmark, so it'll be hard I guess. I'd love to join you, if I lived in your part of the world
I agree! It really can be confuesing sometimes
Transgender girl
I think you have several emotions at work here and lots of people confuse them. I personally make no bones about being bi and maybe that helps me to see some things a little more clearly than some. The consumate CD'er wants to present and as such be thought of as female and therefor sometimes desires males to find them attractive and would in that case find their attraction as attractive. I find CD's very attractive and always have, the more feminine the better. I also find some males attractive but the illussion the CD presents makes the prospect of being intimate for me a little bit more palatable and I think most would agree with that. Although in a way it makes me enfemme a lesbian
Thank you so much, everyone for your answers!!! Keep 'em coming!
I completely understand what you are saying. My eyes know when I see an attractive (beautiful) woman, even though I am not sexually attracted to her. But, the threads that I refer to (asking CDers if they would be with men), mostly imply being with men sexually. I just didn't get what some members meant, when they said no to men, but yes to CDers (not post-op TSs). Also, I do know that some members here would only want to have a non-sexual date with a man in order to validate their feelings of femininity ... but this is different than the men who would have sex with a CDer and not "men".
This.
I think this is the fundamental reason underlying many of the answers here. CDers who do prefer having sex with CDers rather than "men", are giving in to their fantasies of being with a beautiful woman (who also has a male body part), since everyone knows that CDers have male body parts?
Reine
i like masculine men. cd'ers might be men, but presenting as women do not peak my interest
paula
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