Proud but not loud?

[TheMissus]

I promise this isn't an antagonistic post!

I'm curious about public CD for those who still identify as men. (No TS answers thanks as that's a very different situation). Anyway, I'm sure this question has been asked countless times and I sort of understand the need for human interaction. (Sort of - most people annoy me, lol.) But so much is made here of 'blending' and 'passing' and basically having no one look at you. Best case you go about your day completely invisible.

So what's the point?

Why go out at all? There seems little human interaction involved and when there is it seems to involve those already in the know. People are actually proud here when they're not noticed. I get avoiding the whole 'wow, there goes a man dressed as a women' but realistically that's pretty much what you are. Men just have those tell tale signs that tip people off regardless of how they present. Doesn't mean you don't look good - but we usually know. But surely, avoiding all human contact is no different than hiding at home?

So why not go out loud and proud and get noticed for what you are? And if you really can't, why not just stay home and avoid all this stress? What is everyone getting out of this? I have become quite fond of many here (yes, true) and when I read of these difficult outings the wife/mother in me wants to say 'please, don't torture yourselves and stay home already.'

All answers appreciated. This journey will never be complete without this puzzling question being removed from my busy annoying brain. My H doesn't go public but he gets why a person would yet can't seem to explain it to me. Seems this is part of the secret 'CD club' that us wives might never understand

M x

[Debi]

There are a multitude of reasons...

Being true to yourself: Once you accept that you are on the 'T-spectrum' where ever that is for the individual and you become truly ok with it, well for me anyway, I have a bit of an attitude of 'if I want to go out dressed - why shouldn't I?'
In my case, once I first went out properly in public (i.e. NOT a t-club), I can't deny that I got quite a buzz from it. A mixture of nerves and adrenaline. This in itself can be quite addictive at first.
Pushing the boundaries: I would never say that this is a good enough reason on its own for anyone to go out dressed, but I always think that the T-community are where gay people were 50 years ago. Nowadays, if you met someone who told you they were gay, you'd just say, oh - right cool and that'd be the end of it, but we t-girls are NOT in that position, not by a long shot and the situation can ONLY get better when the public at large get exposed to POSITIVE examples of crossdressers and TV's. When I go out, I am pleased that I am perhaps just lowering down some barriers on a VERY minor level.

D x

[cdmorganashley]

i think going "unnoticed" is really about being noticed as a normal woman... i think ideally we shouldn't need other's response to us to validate how we dress or present ourselves, but in reality what other people think has an effect on how we perceive and feel about ourselves (well most people i think, and certainly me)

[Ruthie Leather]

I guess I'm not really the best person to answer this because I only have a handful of experiences of public dressing and only then at night. However, I do have the urge to go out in public dressed so the only thing I can do is tell you how I see it.

Although I identify as male for most of the time, I still feel the need to express my female side and to be honest would like to have the confidence to do that in public. With regards to passing, if I were to dress in public I would feel the need to be able to pass rather than stand out, not because I would want to be invisible but more because I wouldn't want there to be a disconnect between how I was feeling inside at that time and what I was presenting to the world.

If you think about it when you go about your daily life you don't go out of your way to stand out, at least I do, but when I'm in male mode, I feel comfortable out in public that what I present to the rest of the world is what I'm feeling inside at that time. When I feel the need to dress, I would like to be able to go about my life free from the judgement from society (which is kind of what is holding me back from dressing more in public) happy that what I'm presenting to the world is what's inside at the time, rather than just being a dude in a skirt - which is also cool, just look at the way Eddie Izzard dresses.

For me, it's about presenting and being a woman while dressed, rather than being obviously a guy wearing a skirt. Sorry if that wasn't really coherent, but I have trouble understanding it myself....

[Tawne]

I don't go out personally at this current stage nor have any urge to right now, but like your husband I have an idea why and it is hard to explain. Is there a difference between hiding at home and going out un-noticed...umm yeah, you're outside?? Humans are not a caged species, in fact no person or animal should be, if people have the urge to go out en femme, and are able to do so without running into any difficulties along the way, good on them. Possibly another explanation that may attract some to go out is the dare, a bit like a secret mission, it is an achievement for some and others a thrill ride...or both :P

[kimdl93]

I'm not a loud person by nature. I don't go out to make a statement, but to experience life with real people. And those individual interactions give me that experience. We are social animals, after all.

[stephNE]

While there are a lot of similarities between all the people here, there is no "one rule" that we all fit under. For some of us, we want (need) interaction with others. Expressing myself is something that I need to do. And as Debi said, the more we are seen out, the closer we are to acceptance.

[Kate Simmons]

I tend to agree with you Hon. I never did get the point of going through all of that and it didn't take me long to discover that going out in public to intermingle with the general populace, going shopping, and trying on female stuff in stores didn't do a whole lot for me, although it seems to be the "Holy Grail" of CDing for some. I like to interact as well as the next "guy" but I did it by initially joining a TG Org Renaissance. We knew who we were up front, so didn't have unrealistic expectations.We had monthly meetings, gab fests, product demonstrators and refreshments at those meetings but after awhile I personally wanted more.

What I ended up doing was going to the local LGBT resort club and made friends who accepted me as is and learned how to dance and that is pretty much how I have fun with it. I go to a place where I can enjoy myself, socialize and not continuously have to have my guard up and I'm not really trying to be someone or something I'm not. The best part is that my GF is okay with it and even dances with me en femme but she knows in the end I'm her guy and that is what counts.

The bottom line, I figure, is why put yourself in stressful situations if you don't have to? Life is full of enough angst without creating more. That's how I look at it anyway. Works for me.

[deebra]

Debi, great thread, very well said, I agree with all of it.

Tawni at the youthful age of 33 and as femininely attractive as you present to reference your thread why do you want to be in-house and caged. If you went out wouldn't you be conquering the dare, enjoying the thrill and anxiety which is fun and rewarding, be like a bird that has been freed from it's cage and go public dressed like the attractive woman your pictures show you to be. You have a natural gift others on this forum don't have, maybe you should go out and see if it brings another level of pleasure for you. I'm pretty sure you would feel quite womanly walking thru the mall in a skirt, makeup and heels.

[NicoleScott]

People are actually proud here when they're not noticed.

I've never been in agreement with the idea that we're all the same here, just at a different place on the T-spectrum. I think there is a fundamental difference in what drives us to the same destination - wearing women's clothes (and makeup, etc.). Those who have an internal feminine identity say they dress to express that identity (I take their word for it - I wouldn't know - I'm not one of them). Others, like me, transform into some idealized woman, to the extent we can given our male bodies, face, hair, skin, etc., as our eyes and brain define what an ideal woman is, because it excites/arouses us. And others for other reasons they claim (comfort, etc.). Then we're all thrown together, whether here as crossdressers, or by the generally-ignorant-on-the-matter-public as transgendered or some other not-as-PC collective label.
One bit of evidence that we are fundamentally different is that some claim "it's not about the clothes" while others like me say "it IS about the clothes". TheMissus, for some the goal is to be out and about un-noticed and proud of it, as you observed. For others like me, staying home is a good way to be un-noticed, but we want to be noticed, so we go out. It isn't important for me to be seen as a GG (and there is little chance that I am), I just wanted to be seen. When I went to a TG-friendly club it was obvious that I was a CDer, but it didn't matter to me or them and I had a great time. I was seen.
It still doesn't answer why I needed to go out and be seen, and I'm still not sure why. Maybe I just needed acknowledgement that, even for a short moment, I pulled off the transformation. Why I want to be seen is a different question than why I want to dress up. And I don't know the answer to that one either. I can only guess that it is the guy in me that is attracted to the girl in the mirror, and without those other annoying humans to deal with. You understand this, huh?

[Lynn Marie]

Very astute post, M. I'm impressed with your ability to put into words how a bunch of my CD girlfriends and I think about our presentation!

Last May I took a class with my best girlfriend on blending. Everything presented was quite valid and interesting. Yet we both walked out fully aware of how to blend and also with no interest in changing our presentation to blend! Very few of us dress to blend, we dress for fun, and for interaction.

[TheMissus]

Tawne, I agree you can and should be able to go out if you want. I'm just trying to wrap my ahead around all this sleuth style blending that goes with it. Is it truly so terrible if people see you all as CD and not GGs? If it is terrible, I can't imagine taking the risk, that's all.

The other thing I wondered is whether there's concern your male identity will be discovered? Does this play somewhat into the blending issue? Or is it really just about expressing those internal feelings mentioned? I guess that makes sense to me in a way - though I'd also think getting read would ruin the whole experience.

I know my H doesn't do public given he's more a sexual CD, but plenty of them do and it's always at the back of my mind, so I really appreciate the explanations. x

Edit: Nicole, I get it, lol. I actually understand the need to be seen too, as who you are. It's the blending/passing stuff that confuses me as this will undoubtedly be rare yet it seems like such an important goal. I say go out anyway if you like. But it must be very hard for some here to feel a need to go out only to then hide from everyone

[NicoleScott]

I actually understand the need to be seen too, as who you are.

I see this, too, wanting to be seen as who you are. As you can see from other responses, it is who they are. But not for others like me. I don't have a feminine identity that needs to go out and be seen "for the woman I am". It's not who I am. Nicole the crossdresser is what I am. And I protect the identity of the guy underneath, and for good reasons. "Go out and hide" seems to meet my needs.

[Alice Torn]

Great thread topic! It is very stressful to go out at first, every time i go, which is rare. I love adventure, and dares, a bit! I am hoping to go to a classical music concert this Saturday evening, if my little toe, which i stubbed last night, , and badly cut open, is not too painful then. I always loved to dress up in homemade costumes for masquerades in the past. I don't celebrate Holloween as a special day, but will use it for dressing up, and going out, as many others will be doing it. I don't really know why i want to go out, and be an attractive super tall lady. I just don't know. Part of it, is I am single, never had a steady girlfriend, and now, can become her part time. I still would like a right Gg friend.

[UNDERDRESSER]

Explaining is difficult, I think, because for so many of us, this has been going on a long time, and has so many layers of repression, that the basic reason is lost under all that other stuff.

I don't have much urge to go out as a woman, it's there a little bit, but in my case may be different from others. I want the "female" experience, in that I want to display. My current desire is to go out wearing skirts. Just that, skirts that work for my male look. I'd take Utilikilts and the like, but there's no way I can afford a wardrobe of kilts. The idea of going out as a woman, comes from the thought that if I could be believable, then I could wear whatever skirts I want, and not get hassled.

I've said it before, and I think it applies to some, that this urge is actually men wanting to do some female things, looking sexy, displaying, taking the "female" role, ( being approached, being seen a sexual object, taking the follower position, rather than leader ) but that persona is not accepted in man, so they think "Screw it, I'll be woman then."

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying they necessarily want attention from men, just attention. Though some do want it from men, ( those that only seem to be attracted to men when dressed ) I have to wonder if those people aren't really interested in at all, but the conditioning goes so deep, that they can't conceive of being on the receiving end of overt sexual attention from women?

I've just re-read this, and I'm trying to put myself in a world where I go out dressed as a woman. And get attention. It's going to be from men, mostly...............If I got that, would I accept the attention...and what follows?

This is weird, is it just repression? Do I want a relationship with another male? This is making me go back and re-assess things I had dealt with several years ago.

No, I don't want a physical relationship with a male. What I want is the sort of relationship I have, with a female. But I want that to go a bit further in the reversal of the accepted mainstream male/female roles. I would like more attention from other females. I have no intention of cheating on my GF, but I like that sense of power that comes from being wanted. I like it when we go out as a couple, and she has dressed up. She gets noticed, and she likes it, she likes it when she sees how I react to it, I'd like to have some of that for myself. We have a good relationship, my GF is very feminist in a lot of ways. She is very happy being female, and what flows from that in our relationship, but she reacts strongly to any assumption that this means the female, (any female, not just her) is somehow "lesser' because of this. I think that's behind some of my re-assessments of male/female roles.

Sorry, I'm rambling off the topic again. When we start on this area, I end up exploring my own feelings and go off at tangents.

Just to be clear, this is my assessment of my own drives, and the belief that some, others have similar roots.

[Gretchen_To_Be]

It would take a lot to get me to go out. I would need to look in reality the way I imagine things in my mind, and that will probably never happen. I could see a Halloween event or maybe Vegas one day when my presentation has improved, but it would need to be in a different city. For now I'm content to occasionally share this side of me with my wife, behind closed doors.

[vallerie lacy]

Why go out at all? Why climb a mountain? It's just in our internal makeup, not to be confused with external makeup. And as you know we do love our makeup. I myself would love to waltz down the street all girlied up. But that's not gonna happen. So I stay home to avoid any stress. After all, I don't want to scare any children. Can anyone name anything prettier than a woman. We want to be pretty too. We just don't know why.

[Dianne S]

I like to go out cross-dressed to a cross-dresser's social club. There's plenty of human interaction there (and usually food!)

Just going out cross-dressed for a walk or shopping or whatever without friends around doesn't really appeal to me that much.

[Secret Drawer]

Imagine for centuries that gay men have been treated like criminals, put to death, banished from towns and countries, abandoned by families, etc. We fundamentally understand that you cannot simply ask them "Why don't you just date women, wouldn't it be easier?" I think that crossdressers have the same fundamental inability to simply just say no. So whether it is stressful, risky, or even potentially dangerous, we still feel compelled to go out. Pride is no match for public ridicule, and sensibilties don't necessarily escape a CD's mind, so blending as best as possible, whether it works or not, is better than flaunting ourselves like drag queens, unless that is someones thing.

[MatildaJ.]

One aspect I haven't seen anyone mention is that being out in society is how "socialization" occurs. A large part of what CDers are missing, as they try to take the female role, is experience with that early and ongoing socialization as a woman. But now that they want to explore the female role, the only way to get that socialization-as-a-woman is by going out in public as a woman and dealing with everything that society throws at them, from appreciative glances to cat-calls to other women judging their outfits, etc.

[Jenniferathome]

Missus, for me, even just being in a public place IS human interaction. You are also doing something, even if it is just window shopping. Then,there is the element of testing your presentation. While I know I will not pass, should anyone take a look, I may confuse. Perhaps that's the best I can hope for. So, right next to "Loud and Proud" is "Out and Proud" followed by "Quiet and Proud." In a way, going out is like a public admission that I am a cross dresser without have to scream it out.

Now, when I have actual conversation and real interaction, it is always better.

[Suzanne F]

My first step out of the car on my first night out dressed was one of the best moments of my life. I was not hiding anymore! I do want to interact with people as Suzanne. Of course they will know something is different about me. But unless they ask they dont know if I am transitioning or a crossdresser. For me it is about interacting with the world as a woman. I don't claim to be just a guy in a dress. No offense to anyone that feels that way! I am so happy to be able to finally accept and even present me! I also love taking the next step of courage as it comes up. Like going to my 12 step meeting as Suzanne or throwing dice at a craps table en femme. I am going to the city tomorrow night dressed and I can hardly wait! I don't think I could ever go back to not going out in the world as Suzanne. Sorry for all of the rambling!
Suzanne

[StephanieDragg]

I enjoy the fashion, I enjoy going out meeting people, It is my persona and form of expression, when I was younger and admired well dressed women out shopping, running their errands, etc I'd think.... I wanna grow up to be just like her!!

[reb.femme]

Why go out at all? There seems little human interaction involved and when there is it seems to involve those already in the know........But surely, avoiding all human contact is no different than hiding at home?

So why not go out loud and proud and get noticed for what you are? And if you really can't, why not just stay home and avoid all this stress?
M x

Hi TheMissus,

For me, it isn't black and white as regards going out and the level of interaction I seek on different days.

Being loud and proud would be OK if I was looking for possible confrontation (which I'm not of course) but can understand that you would query why we go out if not interacting with people. As a first step to confidence building for some, and I include myself here, not interacting whilst out would be the order of the day. However, my first time out, I ended up having to talk to a hotel receptionist and then to a GG at a petrol station when I had a problem with the pump. All I wanted was to be left alone but she wanted to engage me in conversation. In at the deep end, but a good immersion and reality check all in one day and had a good experience nonetheless.

Sometimes not talking to people may be a good thing too, as a guy almost turned to stone when he read me from about a foot away. So can I say, we don't interact to protect the muggles ?

Rebecca

[JamieG]

One aspect I haven't seen anyone mention is that being out in society is how "socialization" occurs.

I agree with Jess, on the "socialization" aspect, but I would also add "normalization." I don't go out and expect people to mistake me for a GG, I just want them not to mistake me for a non-human. For the longest time, I felt that if anyone knew I crossdressed, I would be burnt at the stake. I still carry to internalized transphobia today. When I go out and then manage to actually have normal interactions with cisgendered people, their acceptance of me helps me to better accept myself. Not to mention, if I make a good impression, then that's a possible future trans-ally I've just won over. If instead I try to stand out by dressing like an over-the-top drag queen, then strangers will tend to write it off as "screaming for attention" and "wanting special treatment."