Hi that was an interesting but sad story.... ..I'm a huge Law and Order show fan and i remember an episode that showed that very story... two twin boys.. one made to be a girl at a doctors insitence... one of them commited murder or someting due to it ..sorry i cant remember all the details of the show now...any body else remember seeing it??
[SIZE="5"][/SIZE]Monica
new email address & personal web page.....
monica55cd@hotmail.com
http://planet.angelfire.com/crazy/monica55cd/
I don't agree the term cisgendered, the arguments behind it, or the politics. The term did not come out of research or studies; it came from the activist wing of the gender movement. I hesitate to put much, if any at all, credence to cisgenderism.
There has been a fair amount of science done on human development in the womb. I have not found any scientific research that points to transgenderism being caused by the biological development process. If anyone has a reference to any journals or articles indicating otherwise, I'd love to see it. Today, the best data indicates that transgenderism is in the mind.
Warm regards,
Christina Nicole.
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywo...ews/genes.htmlOriginally Posted by Christina Nicole
DonnaT
I suspect that it is entirely possible to introduce someone to crossdressing who was not previously aware that they had an interest in it. If they were open minded about it and exposed themselves to the idea for a long enough period of time then they would probably develop some interest in CDing. Most people have some degree of transgenderism to their personality. Few people are 100% masculine or feminine. However what motive would there be for a friend to do this unless he already had an internal desire to explore this for himself?
So yes it may be technically feasible to create a crossdresser but unlikely to happen in real life unless there is an internal motivation. Besides the friend may be asexual, there are plenty of asexual people in this world. The idea that we are all sexual beasts is incorrect.
As for cisgenderism - what possible motivations are there for any other alternative behavior/lifestyles such as being a punk. Nothing in life prepares people to being a punk yet they exist. Unless you believe there is a "punk gene", this alternative lifestyle is a learned behaviour, some people are just attracted to the idea because it suits their personality despite it being anti-social. The same is true for us, we CD because it suits us, it projects what we feel inside. There is no big mystery to it.
Firstly, great link Donna, you have a happy knack of sourcing great sites.
Secondly, Helena have a think about this. How often is crossdressing passed off as a phase? "He'll grow out of it" How often do we grow out of it?
Being a punk on the other hand is rarely a lifelong condition. I grew up in the punk era and most of those people are no longer living that lifestyle.
We on the other hand do not have the luxury of choice.
Jan the genetically challenged
Again from Dr. Doctor's (which has subsequently been de~bunked here on the forum ~ but which in its day ~ at least was someone looking for answers to the questions ~ and solutions to the problems) the theory was that all human embroyes are esssentially female the frist six to eight weeks of conception ~ and that for an embroye to develepe into a male than "something" extra" had to be added ~ a masculinizing hormoal wash in the womb. Otherwise the default was for the emborye to develope along the feminine path.
The "therory" at the time was that while there may be suffficient hormones to masculinize the body, in and of for some reason there was insuffiecent hormones to masculinise the brain to it completion ~ thus some males are born either as transexuals or otherwise TG to some varying degree.
Obviosuly in the light of modern day research ~ as posted in this thread ~ this is not the entire and complete truth ~ there is more to all of this than meets the eye. And, the hormonal wash theory is in-suffiecent to explain gender dysphoria.
Again, as said as it is to admitt the fact we live in a prejudice world, where educated and informed people are the exception and not the norm. It IS an absoulte fact of life that the world is populated with people that are ill-informed, un-educated, illiterate and most of all people such as myself that can't spell to save their lives! (I just can't spell for #@%%~! OK! I'm working on it!)
Me? I live in the Deep South of the United States. We slaughter the English laungae! Just slauther it! If you were to hear me actually speaking these words ~ you'd wonder why I wasn't on the redneck comedy channel.
One of the things that I've picked up on the other day ~ that spoke volumes of wisdom ~ was from a co-worker ~ who is of Afriacn lineage ~! He said, "Either you is, or you ain't!"
That's the deal with being a crossdresser, TG, ~ whatever title you choose to place upoin yourself! For me? And I dare speak for the majority being a crossdresser isn't something I choose! Its cost me two serious long term relationships with GG, its cost me my marriage, its cost me a world of hurt, heartache, grief, heartbreak, worry, stress, sleepless nights! It cost me big TIME finacncially.
In hindsight ~ not that that's a bad thing! To get from where I was ~ to where I am! Its something that I had to go through! Something I had to learn from ~ and someting that I had to grow from!
One of the things that I learned from the Marine Corps ~ is that pain is and can be good! Not that I'm into all of this SM/BD stuff! But in the sense that it teaches you ~ you learn from it ~ you grow from it! For example the first time you stuck your hand into an open flame ~ you sure as Hell learned not to do it a second time!
The first time you got involved with a GG, and were in denial about who and what you are as a person ~ in denial ~ and then went through all that pain ~ you sure as Hell learned NOT to do that again!
He tried it ~ it wasn't for him! Either you is or you're not! I wouldn't push the issue! Let it ride ~ let it slide ~ and go easy!
Those that know ~ know! Those that understand ~ understand! Those that don't ~ DON'T! And will never get it!
Me? I truly believe that all of this would be easier, ~ much easier if I had just been born gay ~ but I'm not! Maybe, TS ~ but I'm not! Perhaps bi-sexaual ~ but I'm not! But, I will tell you I'm TG ~ to the extent that I have a want, a need, a desire to dress in women's clothes, jewelry, makeup ~ to express and all the more experience femininity~!
Explain it? I can't explain it! I can't explain it to someone else ~ because I can't explain it to myself! I can't rationalize it! I can't define it! I can't corale it! I can't pin it up into any given box!
no, you can't convert him. I have tried and tried. Don't waste your time or hopes. There are lots of girls like us out there, so you don't need to convert anyone
I suspect that they are still punks at heart even if they no longer look like one. And I wonder how many had to give up the lifestyle because they were unemployable....
True, there is an inner mechanism which drives CDs and makes it a complusion but essentially being a CD is still an alternative lifestyle expression except we are not rebelling against society as a whole but against gender stereotypes.
Taking a genetic route to CD does not do justice to oneself. In a sense, it is a mental copout. One should give herself credit for the ability to see the irrationality of society, being able to go in a different direction, choosing her own lifestyle and persevering despite sometimes overwhelming odds and disappointments. Sooner or later, we will be blaming everything on jeans, even poor spelling.
Love,
j-a
`Who are YOU?' said the Caterpillar.Alice replied, rather shyly, `I--I hardly know, sir, just at present-- at least I know who I WAS when I got up this morning, but I think I must have been changed several times since then.'
You are right, Joni-Alice. Carl Jung said that the only sane response to an insane world is an insane one.
SOMEDAY! I will find the documentary I saw a couple years ago that showed, quite convincingly, that gender identity had a great deal to do with two glands in the brain, in relation to their size.
Many factors could influence these glands (one determined physical gender expression and the other influenced emotional gender expression), including age, hormones, injury, drugs, and simply the brain itself.
It explained, in an amazing way, how it could be that birth gender did not always win out, and also how a "man" built like a brick house could feel very femme inside, how someone born male could be female in every other way, why some are gay and some are not, ect., ect., ect. It was fascinating, and backed up through scientific research. It cetrtainly made sense, and in a very easy way to SEE, not just theorize.
The tiniest, microscopic change in the size of these glands could cause a big gender identity shift, explaining how people could change in their feelings about themselves over time, or resist society's definition of "male OR female" only labels. And, of course, the clues given by the brain from these glands are filtered through social influences, personal will, lifetimes choices, experiences, and personality.
Just as one identical twin can develop Alzheimers while the other doesn't, these glands, and their minute differences, could also account for one transgendered twin while the other is not.
I have to find that Documentary. It's driving me nuts.
....we are all made of stardust
nature or nurture
here's my two penneth, first of all truely gay men like men not men trying to be women. secondly my thoughts are that when we fetuses or even earler we start life as women, and at a surtan stage of developement the male hormone kicks in in a big way, and hey prestoe we have a boy child, were the opersite is true we have a girl child, but the are mirriad differences in between, coverring the whole gamet of sexuality, and to answer the first question he has started the ball rolling so let bill alone and he may come around, but please dont put preasure on him, that truely would freak him out.
p.s be the friend you say you are, and let him get used to the idea. pps please excuse the spelling.
I've read a lot of stories in which a guy is forced to crossdress and winds up loving it, as though any man would love it if he gave it a try. I don't think it works that way, though. It's like learning to be a midget. You either are or you aren't. ( line stolen from a Woody Allen movie )
:mad: Hey!!!!!!!!! Being a lousy speller isn't genticly induced! I own that! That's mine!Taking a genetic route to CD does not do justice to oneself. In a sense, it is a mental copout. One should give herself credit for the ability to see the irrationality of society, being able to go in a different direction, choosing her own lifestyle and persevering despite sometimes overwhelming odds and disappointments. Sooner or later, we will be blaming everything on jeans, even poor spelling.
Love,
j-a
I definately recall reading an article about a man who had had a stroke, and who though had previously been strictly male all of his life ~ after suffering brain damage from the stroke begin displaying distinctly femininie charteristics and traits.
I also read about a distraught TS who attempted suicide with a pistol to the head, and in effect survived ~ and in effect performing a frontal lombodmy ~ and thereafter was not inclined toward being a TS.
I'm not saying any of what I've posted are ABSOLUTES~ in fact I'm a strong advocate for free will ~ and self expresion. Speaking strickly for myself ~ since there is such a wide spectram of the and intertwined matrix when it comes to this subject and any radomly chossen indiviual ~ Me? I would STILL be a cross dresser if I NEVER indulged in any aspect of crossdressing, to any degree ~ at any level.
I definately recall reading an article about a man who had had a stroke, and who though had previously been strictly male all of his life ~ after suffering brain damage from the stroke begin displaying distinctly femininie charteristics and traits.
I also read about a distraught TS who attempted suicide with a pistol to the head, and in effect survived ~ and in effect performing a frontal lombodmy ~ and thereafter was not inclined toward being a TS.
I'm not saying any of what I've posted are ABSOLUTES~ in fact I'm a strong advocate for free will ~ and self expresion. Speaking strickly for myself ~ since there is such a wide spectram of the and intertwined matrix when it comes to this subject and any radomly chossen indiviual ~ Me? I would STILL be a cross dresser if I NEVER indulged in any aspect of crossdressing, to any degree ~ at any level.
In the end who I am as an individual and as a person ~ is NOT defined by what I was born with between my legs, but more so with what I was born with between my ears. And, the same can be true for any other given individual. Whey do some people prefer red over blue? Why do some people perfer a well done steak to a rare?
Joke:
Geneticists claim that they can now cure lesbianism, now that they've located the gene that causes it.
Now all they need to locate is a lesbian who wants to be cured.
One of the things that I particurly liked about that documentary, is that their explaination of how someone determines their gender and sexuality means that there are so many, many shades of gray that there really is no such thing as "normal".
....we are all made of stardust
Yes I see it that way too, a cop-out so that you do not have to examine yourself too much and say its not your fault. There are people out there claiming that they have identified genes for rapists and serial killers....its not their fault, they were compelled to rape and killTaking a genetic route to CD does not do justice to oneself. In a sense, it is a mental copout. One should give herself credit for the ability to see the irrationality of society, being able to go in a different direction, choosing her own lifestyle and persevering despite sometimes overwhelming odds and disappointments. Sooner or later, we will be blaming everything on jeans, even poor spelling.
Love,
j-aWhen does personal responsibility start?
Also just because you were born with a personality that does not neatly fit into society's definition of gender roles does not automatically mean you will become a CD. At the end of the day we choose to act on our feelings, we choose to crossdress, we liked it and continued to do so further reinforcing our crossdressing feelings. We could have choosen not to act our our feelings and not become crossdressers. But since this usually happens during our childhood we did not fully understand what we were choosing so it is all water under the bridge now.
Personally I am happy that I saw through the absurdity of social conditioning and gender stereotypes and I am not living in the black and white, brainwashed dreamworld that "normal" people live in, content to hold onto their prejudices because they cannot be bothered to think for themselves.
A good posting. That is, up to the third paragraph. I would imagine that normal people do not feel brainwashed nor do they feel prejudiced. That you disagree with their position in such a manner is intolerance. You think you are right. They think that they are. Some of “them” don't even bother to think about it since it's not a problem for them. There are thousand of issues and non-issues that confront people everyday. Some are ignored because of ignorance. Some have to be ignored to avoid becoming overwhelmed or simply feeling overwhelmed. Do you think about the problems of living in Bangladesh? What about living under Robert Mugabe? Those issues are of paramount importance to the people dealing with them. Those who do have to live with those issues very well may consider us living in a brainwashed dream world. Certainly their problems are a bit more critical to their survival, yet who thinks about that in this country? Yet there are thousands of words devoted to panties on this site.Yes I see it that way too, a cop-out so that you do not have to examine yourself too much and say its not your fault. There are people out there claiming that they have identified genes for rapists and serial killers....its not their fault, they were compelled to rape and kill
Also just because you were born with a personality that does not neatly fit into society's definition of gender roles does not automatically mean you will become a CD. At the end of the day we choose to act on our feelings, we choose to crossdress, we liked it and continued to do so further reinforcing our crossdressing feelings. We could have choosen not to act our our feelings and not become crossdressers. But since this usually happens during our childhood we did not fully understand what we were choosing so it is all water under the bridge now.
Personally I am happy that I saw through the absurdity of social conditioning and gender stereotypes and I am not living in the black and white, brainwashed dreamworld that "normal" people live in, content to hold onto their prejudices because they cannot be bothered to think for themselves.
I have not done much reading on GID related topics for the last few years, which was the time of my last purge. There exist a fair number of new studies. Unfortunately, none are readily accessible over the Internet. They require a subscription or a fee. I'm not all that interested in the topic, so I will not spend several hundred dollars to get access to the articles. Many were performed with government grant money, so I'm doubly annoyed. First the government takes my money to fund the study and then the publisher wants more.
It appears that many of the references to these articles, like the link posted above, are postings based on a third party's reading of the study, an article about the study, or perhaps just the abstract of the study. Since it is unclear how remote the posting is from the text of the original study, that is, whether the posting is from a reading of the study, an article about the study, or even further generations apart and since the qualification of the people who wrote about the study are not provided, credibility is difficult to establish.
Warm regards,
Christina Nicole
Last edited by Christina Nicole; 01-03-2006 at 11:56 AM.
Hi Christina
I am aware that I have my own point of view that is no more "right" than anyone else. The point I was trying to make is at least I have thought about this and many other issues. Being a CD has made me live a life outside the box and has changed my outlook. My opinions on matters are my own and are not spoon fed to me. The reason political spin works so well is that people are content to be handed positions because it means they do not need to spend time considering it themselves. I always look for the opposing points of view, I often play devils advocate to get others to think for themselves.
I also live in Asia so the problems of the third world are apparent to me everyday. Your point about atrocious regimes like Zimbabwe precisely illustrates my point. If people took the time to think about the lives of people in the third world then we would force our leaders to do something about it. The reason why nothing changes is because our leaders know their people too well, they know the average person does not care what happens elsewhere.
So I stand by my quotation. People know they are being brainwashed and allow it to happen in exactly the same way people know eating junk food will make them fat but they dont care about that either. I realise if everybody did think for themselves then this would not eradicate prejudice as some people really do think that way, but many others would realise that their prejudiced positions did not reflect who they were and would actively change.
It is not a question of being right, it is a question of thinking for yourself, being true to yourself and being tolerant of people who look or behave differently.
It is a non sens trying to "convert" someone to CDing. As Susan said, it's in our brain and nowhere else. How did you went to CDing ? Just because of your inermost (dont' know if it's right, something from the deep inside) desire; isnt' it ? If i'm crossdressing, it's not just for the fun of getting dressed up, it's just because i feel it, i need it for being myself.
Alise
He said no. I'd let it go.
I believe CDing desires stem from the way the brain is wired.
Many people have relationship problems that aren't related to their sexual preferences.
He may have issues you know nothing about (like past abuse, ect.) and aren't qualified to help him with-- except to gently urge him to see a therapist for his own good. But if he resists, just continue to be his friend and listen to him.
Alise ..... from froggy land !
Ahhh, yes. Another impossible Question. I don't think you can convert anyone into anything unless they really believe that the change will benefit them in some way. That said, there is of course, the curiosity factor. If he does not either or both of these concepts I doubt that you will ever convert him. He really has to have some reason/desire to try new things. Then there is the "fear factor" which may well be the one mitigating factor that he can't/won't overcome. It is a very interesting query though and makes good food for thoght. Good luck in your search for some one to dress and have fun with.
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