MtF crossdressing is FUNNY!

[Frédérique]

No, I don’t think MtF crossdressing is funny, but apparently people who don’t crossdress think it’s downright hilarious. You see, the #1 and #2 movies on the all-time "funniest" movie list involve crossdressing – what is funnier than a man in a dress? Even funnier is a man who doesn’t pass, but he has somehow convinced everyone in the movie that he IS a woman. Go figure…

Of course, the movies in question are Some Like It Hot and Tootsie. I’ve seen the former many times, but I’ve never seen the latter. However, I know it’s out there, influencing the masses, just like I know Mrs. Doubtfire is doing her level best to reinforce CD stereotypes. Personally, I would categorize these movies as perfect examples of drag, but I don’t come here to state the obvious. When males impersonate females for comedic purposes it is DRAG writ large, but, and it’s a big but, these drag performances are carelessly labeled “crossdressing” by those who either do not or will not appreciate subtle differences. We all suffer as a result…

I don’t dress-up for laughs, period, but how do dedicated movie-goers see my crossdressing? The aforementioned movies may be the only handle to grasp in case of emergency, i.e. the only thing to fall back on when a real crossdresser homes into view. The comedic depiction of crossdressing (drag by any other name) is the acceptable face, indeed the ONLY face, of crossdressing allowed to be seen by conformist society. If it’s done purely for laughs, it’s OK, but if you aren’t interested in entertaining everyone, you must be some kind of pervert – I mean, how can the crossdresser be taken seriously in this “atmosphere?”

I think all of the flack we crossdressers get stems from these “official” depictions of crossdressing put forth, ad nauseum, in the media. I can’t think of one serious presentation of crossdressing in mainstream movies or TV – The Crying Game is essentially a cult film, and, in Ma Vie en Rose, another cult film, the boy is repeatedly laughed at. La Cage aux Folles, or The Birdcage? Drag, once again, with more males-dressed-as-females-and-not-passing, done primarily for laughs. The insertion (pun unintended) of a peek into day-to-day homosexuality makes these films…er…not suitable as family fare, according to those who care about such things…

But, Tony Curtis, Jack Lemmon, and Dustin Hoffman in a dress is perfectly acceptable, because it’s FUNNY. Nothing could be more ludicrous, to a hitherto heterosexual male, than to be thrust into a situation where you need to crossdress! Their chosen characters don’t want to crossdress, of course (that would be unacceptable), but they do it for survival, something everyone will understand. This makes it that much harder for we non-cinematic crossdressers who dress up just because we want to – how do you explain this to people, namely outsiders? No matter how enlightened a person may be, their first reaction will be to laugh, perhaps nervously, or, at the very least, twist their lips into a crooked smile. Is he serious?

Yes, he (she) is, but, thanks to the movies, the slope he’s trying to climb has become steeper, more slippery, and perhaps insurmountable. It’s important to laugh, and keep laughing, but at OUR expense? Is it any wonder that spouses, SO’s, friends, and family are bewildered and mystified by MtF crossdressing? Look what has gone on before, and what is still being championed as the finest comedies ever to grace the silver screen. Of ALL the funniest movies ever made, two films with a heavy dose of crossdressing top the list! Of course they do. Here we are, in the early part of the 21st century, and, despite any alleged advancement that the community receives or desires, the same old misinformation about crossdressing is being trotted out, and laughed at. I’m telling ya, the whole thing is a colossal drag…

Do you think MtF crossdressing is funny? Aren’t you tired of being laughed at?

Do I amuse you?

[Beverley Sims]

I instantly think.....
Funny peculiar, or funny Ha! Ha!

[Kate Simmons]

To be honest, I don't take myself that seriously Freddie whether I'm en femme or en homme. I just go with the flow and have fun with being who I am. Plus we used to have an expression when we were kids. "You're funny but your face beat you to it." But I digress,,,,,,,,

[Lorileah]

The other "official" side to that coin is the mass murderer/pervert movies. I take a little comfort in knowing that 50 years ago many movies depicted other minorities as criminals or clowns. But in the CD/TG world, we have a longer row to hoe because when things get hot, TGs can fade away and become invisible

[Stephanie47]

No, I don’t think MtF crossdressing is funny. Aren't you tired of being laughed at?

I don't think cross dressing is funny or amusing. Being married to a non accepting wife cross dressing movies or televisions shows do NOT go over well. If it is NOT drag for amusement sake, it is creepy slasher deviants running around in a dress.

For over 3,500 comments on this forum I have refrained from interjecting a true horror story in my immediate neighborhood. It is an example of why I do not strut my stuff or embarrass my wife.

Shortly after we bought our house in the late 1970's there was a house fire. I even recall the name of the man who died in the fire, but, I will not mention it here. He set his house on fire, sat in his recliner as the house burned down around him. He held the responding fire department at bay by shooting rounds at their fire trucks. The newspaper account just had to mention the fact his remains were found with his high heels still strapped to his charred feet. Was that necessary? No, I considered it 'black humor' at its worst. Even in death that cross dresser was made fun of and his family embarrassed.

That incident shaped my thoughts for decades on how society felt about me.

PS: Moderator, don't delete or modify because I mentioned something related to a forbidden word. It is a matter of fact in a discussion.

[Maryesther M.]

Apart from famous films there is the case of Barry Humpfries who invented Dame Edna Everidge, the Aussie stand-up female comic who has delighted English speaking audiences Worldwide for decades.

He was on the guest list at Prince Charles & Diana's wedding.....as Dame Edna, so he had to attend all dragged up as her.

Personally I crossdress not for humour at all, just for the turn on and the narcissism.

M.

[Lisa Gerrie]

Humor often involves surprise, such as an unexpected punchline. Most people in today's society don't clock crossdressers every day, so the humor/surprise thing can kick in.

[Brenn]

It is not crossdressing per-se that is funny. It is the caricature of men dealing with high heels and other feminine things that they are unfamiliar with that is funny. Hollywood loves to make men look like incompetent boobs (no pun intended) and crossdressing is a good vehicle for that--they do it in other ways too. Someone who crossdresses and is good at it is much less likely to get laughed at. Drag is another caricature and therefore draws laughs.

[kimdl93]

I was uncomfortable when I saw Tootsie (and Corporal Klinger on MASH)but not because people were laughing. I was deathly afraid that something in them would be recognized in me.

[julia marie]

I'm neutral on Tootsie, maybe because I haven't seen it for a few years, and I thought it was just OK as a movie. I enjoy Some Like it Hot and always find something to laugh about in it. Neither movie brings to mind the term "crossdresser", because none of the three characters are dressing for the same reason that I am. They're just situational comedies, and the characters aren't dressing because they enjoy it. I doubt that many people watch the movies and say "there's a crossdresser". So, I don't take offense. And, I have to note, Marilyn was very special.

[Phydelia]

Do you think MtF crossdressing is funny?

No, but i don't think it's very funny being fat, either... yet somehow fat guys in entertainment are always the butt of jokes as well...

There was an interesting character on the Drew Carey Show at one point... i think it was Drew's brother or something, but he was a (big, masculine) CD, and while it was played for laughs (being a comedy show) the treatment was actually more sympathetic than i would have expected.

[Alice Torn]

I recall Stan Laurel having to wear womens clothes in a pickle, and the three stooges at times dressed as women, Flip Wilson was so funny as Geraldine! Milton Berle, too. Yes, it does seem, that men dressed as women, are considered clowny, awkward fools, or else are considered homosexuals, or just deviant, SADLY. But, sometimes, as Kate says, we need to laugh at ourselves sometimes, or lighten up.

[Chickhe]

Cross dressing is something people do... a drag performer is cross dressing. It doesn't go the direction though. A CDer may or may not be a drag performer, or any other type. I do think some movies are funny, in fact maybe funnier to me than someone who doesn't CD because there are jokes that I get that others don't.

Nothing in the movies is true, once you realize that, CDing in the movies is a good thing because people are smart and eventually they realize the difference between movies and real life. I don not think most people view a CDer in real life in any way the same as in the movies. Nobody is laughing at you. In fact, people are becoming more educated, it just takes time. You can see it in the movies, compare very old ones with newer ones and you will see how attitudes have changed.

[Michelle55]

I'm guessing you are a Jeopardy fan as your question about the #1 and #2 funniest movies was the Final Jeopardy question yesterday. BTW I actually got the response right.

But I do agree that it is sad that things that are not understood by the majority of people seem to be made fun of or demonized. Unfortunately I think that is the typical human reaction. At least being made fun of does not usually put an individual in danger.

[mollycd99]

This interview by Dustin Hoffman turned my understanding of Tootsie upside down:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xPAat-T...%3DxPAat-T1uhE

Apologies if the link doesn't work. Google Dustin Hoffman AFI Tootsie interview.

The touching bit is where he describes how he went home & cried after he realized the make up gurus couldn't make him beautiful. Haven't we all felt that sometime or another?

[AmyGaleRT]

This interview by Dustin Hoffman turned my understanding of Tootsie upside down:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xPAat-T...%3DxPAat-T1uhE

Apologies if the link doesn't work. Google Dustin Hoffman AFI Tootsie interview.

The touching bit is where he describes how he went home & cried after he realized the make up gurus couldn't make him beautiful. Haven't we all felt that sometime or another?

Absolutely, Molly. I've seen that interview. They did do a pretty good job on him for that movie, I thought.

Another source told me that Hoffman did Tootsie partly because he was interested in exploring his feminine side, an outgrowth of his work in Kramer vs. Kramer.

Some other actors have been able to pull it off well, too, such as Patrick Swayze in To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything, Julie Newmar. I only wish I could be as good a woman as Patrick Swayze!

- Amy

[Phydelia]

The touching bit is where he describes how he went home & cried after he realized the make up gurus couldn't make him beautiful. Haven't we all felt that sometime or another?

Very much so... interesting that he actually sounded like he was still affected by it.

[jenni_xx]

Hi Freddie

Really interesting thread. I think while we can literally define Tootsie and Some Like it Hot as movies that deal with crossdressing, the main characters (Dustin Hoffman, Jack Lemmon, and Tony Curtis) are not transgendered. The same with Mrs Doubtfire. It is a crucial difference - all three of those films are about men in disguise (to either escape from the mob, to get a role on a TV show, or to get closer to his kids). It's the fish-out-of-water style comedy. Crossdressing used as a "tool" to emphasise the unusual situation that the main character finds themselves in, in just the same way as the kid-as-adult (or reverse) (for example Big, Vice Versa, 13 Going on 30), or where the main character leaves his familiar background and ventures into the big wide world (for example, Crocodile Dundee, Being There, Beverly Hills Cop).

The other films you mention - you are right in pointing out that they are not mainstream, but then they are films which do deal with an issue in a more direct, literal way, but this is understandable because they are dealing with an issue (crossdressing/transgenderism) that is itself not mainstream. Certain films have attained the cult status, as your state, but there are examples whereby they have crossed the line and attained widespread success/notoriety (The Crying Game, Transamerica, M Butterfly, and of course The Rocky Horror Picture Show). All four of these examples address transgenderism in a different way and evoke a different reaction from the audience (from sympathising (Transamerica) to even something to celebrate (Rocky Horror). Then there are of course lesser known films that follow the similar path of Transamerica in dealing with the issue sympathically - Just Like a Woman and Normal being two superb examples. Also films such as Breakfast on Pluto, Better than Chocolate, and Different for Girls.

We do of course get the films that portray crossdressing in a negative light - Silence of the Lambs, Psycho, Dressed to Kill being prime examples, but two of those films (Silence and Psycho) actually dismiss the notion of the serial killer being a transvestite within their own narrative (In Psycho, the psychiatrist responds to the comment "He's a transvestite", by stating "Ah, not exactly. A man who dresses in women's clothing in order to achieve a sexual change, or satisfaction, is a transvestite. But in Norman's case, he was simply doing everything possible to keep alive the illusion of his mother being alive", and in Silence, Lecter states "Billy is not a real transsexual, but he thinks he is").

Interestingly, there was a thread on here a short while back, where a script-writer asked us for advice on crossdressing for a TV series she is developing - wanting to gain a better understanding of the motivations of cd's, what cding means to us, and the part it plays in our lives. She is all too aware of the perceived negativity and misunderstanding that crossdressing has within film and TV.

[Shari]

My life changed and the way I interact with people changed after watching that Dustin Hoffman interview.
Far too many people are dismissed simply because we feel they aren't good looking enough or perhaps present an aura of lower intelligence. We reject them before the first words come out of their mouths. We rarely give them a chance to speak.
Hoffman's reasoning was that he was not a pretty woman and for that reason, many rejected him and would not give him the time of day. After some self searching, he found that he was guilty of the same thing and he didn't like himself for being that way.

It made me feel the same way myself. There are a lot of interesting and enjoyable people out there if you just give them half a chance.

And Freddie, I went a bit off topic, but my answer is emphatically NO. I do not think crossdressing is funny.
Neither funny peculiar, nor funny, ha, ha.

[cdmorganashley]

Freddy i think i agree with where you are coming from but i also think we do have to be able to laugh at ourselves sometimes... it is unfortunate that the drag/comical take on crossdressing is seemingly the only one put out there to the mainstream public, but if this were just a part of what was put out there along with presentations that were more representative of true crossdressing i don't think it would bother me as much, so in a way it is the lack of the more true crossdresser being portrayed in media that i have an issue with... i think a similar dynamic exists when talking about the portrayal of people with mental illness--there are many comical "crazy" characters or criminals with mental illness in the media, and while some are good detectives their illness is often the comical relief of the show... perhaps with time things will change--any of us on this forum screenwriters? producers? network execs? i'll bet even if they are not on this forum there are those in these positions that are, and i think someday they will get together and put together something we all feel good about.

*for the record i am assuming you bring this up as it was the final jeopardy question the other night, and i got it correct--self brag =P

[Sometimes Steffi]

In some sense, all those movies are about forced feminization, but without whips and bondage.

As for Dustin Hoffman, I read where he picked up his son at school in costume, and was not recognized by the teacher. He had a girl conversation with the teacher that he would never of had as a man.

And don't forget the most famous line in Tootsie

I was a better man as a woman that I ever was as a man.

Even though Tootsie is a sitcom, I thought that was a high level of understanding and acceptance.

[Kate T]

Yep. It's funny. Just ask my 6 year old daughter. I mean cmon, it's bloody rediculous. But then so is most of life.
I like SMLIH and Tootsie. They are comedies. Laugh at yourself and you will garner the sympathy and understanding of others.

[Asche]

I did see Tootsie, and I don't think it made fun of crossdressers at all. The concept of the movie is to take a character and have him alternately pass as a man and as a woman, without changing his behavior, and show how differently other people react to him when he's a woman than when he's a man. It's not about crossdressing, it's about how one's (perceived) gender affects how one is treated.

Drag shows have even less to do with crossdressing or making fun of crossdressing. The whole point of them is to keep the fact that it's a man pretending to be a woman front and center. Sometimes it's done to make fun of women, sometimes to prove how un-womanish the man is (especially if he does a bad imitation of a woman), and sometimes it's about being a character who is neither man nor woman and thus outside of normal social roles. (You might ask: why don't we see more "drag kings" -- women pretending to be men? Answer: sexism.)

I don't think movie or TV portrayals of CDers and TSs are responsible for how society views CDers, they're a reflection of it. As long as most men feel that losing their "man card" is a fate worse than death, you're going to see prejudice against CDing, not to mention against women, gays, pacifists, and pretty much anybody who isn't Rambo. It doesn't matter what they see on TV.

[daviolin]

Why fret about all this brew ha ha. Just put on your best dress and enjoy. Life is to short. Daviolin

[Lori Kurtz]

Sometimes people laugh at things that make them nervous or uncomfortable. Most people don't have much of an understanding of the reasons why we crossdress (and as we all know, the reasons can vary tremendously from one person to another--from the fetishists to the trannsexuals, and more), and I think that lack of understanding can be part of the reason why people laugh at us or at what we do. Another reason might be urges that people have within themselves that they have a hard time dealing with. Maybe some people laugh because they hope their own secret desires (or practices?) won't somehow become obvious to other people.