When Will We Own It?

[Jamie001]

When will we stop making excuses for what we do? For example, in the 10 or so years that I have been here on crossdressers.com, I have seen hundreds of threads regarding how to make excuses for shaving legs or other body parts (bicycling, swimming, lost a bet, and the list goes on and on). They are your legs, why do you need to make excuses?

The only thing that these excuses accomplish is to reinforce shame in your own mind. When a woman wears an article of male clothing, or participates in an typically male activity, she doesn't make excuses for her actions or clothing choices. She will state that she enjoys the activity or likes the article of clothing that she is wearing.

Why can't we as males with a feminine side admit that we enjoy doing something that is feminine such as shaving our legs, watching a chick flick, or going doing other typically feminine things.

I cringe every time that I read another excuse regarding shaving legs. I probably have replied at lease 50 times that no excuse is needed. You only need to state that "I like to have shaved legs, or I like the feel of shaved legs". It is really that simple.

The same goes for shopping for clothing. The old worn-out excuse that it is for your wife has been heard by every retail sales associate. Why not just tell the sales associate that the article of clothing is for you, try it on, and proudly leave the store with your purchase, or even wearing your purchase knowing that you didn't lie and that you are proud of who and what you are. I guarantee that you will leave the store holding your head high. The alternative, lying, simply results in shame and low self esteem. As long as we are ashamed of who and what we are, we will never make progress and will always be societies outcasts. We can be part of the solution, or part of the problem.

What will we choose to do the next time that we are asked about shaved legs, painted nails, an article of clothing, or participating in a typically feminine activity? Whether we realize it or not, if we lie we are reinforcing shame in our own mind.

[Karren H]

Good points... "I lost a bet" isn't working like it used to...

[AllieSF]

The reasons to not tell that white lie are numerous and I agree that it would be better for most to just tell them they do it because they want to. That usually works. However, being totally honest doesn't always work, especially when one is in the closet to family, SO and friends and also work. Like a lot of people recommend, including me, it is each person's decision, not mine. I refuse to coerce others to do what I think is correct. I don't have to live with the consequences of their decisions and neither do you. They do!

Now if people complain about things and do not at least try a few recommendations that may work for them, then I get tired of their whining. As for reinforcing shame. That may be the case in some situations and not in others. I am not ashamed of what I do. However, I am not dumb and realize that for now, I have no "good" reason nor need to come out to any one. So, I make my decisions to share this side of me very judiciously, and I am definitely not ashamed of what I do. I have just made the decision that this is not a battle that I need nor want to fight at this time. Maybe in the future and maybe never. Why do I want to go through all the potential hassle, worries and frustrations just to be able to brag here on this site to mostly complete strangers that I am out to everyone? I don't!

[franlee]

I suppose I'm just terrible at excuses because I just say, 'I wanted to" or I just don't answer such a personal question. Of course I am considered plain spoken in most circles.

[tiffanyjo89]

For those of us who are still in the closet (myself included) I believe that every episode of Jerry Springer that the "tranny freaks" (I am not bashing them in any way, this is what I believe the producers of the show view them as) are on revealing to the guy they were dating that they "were born a man" and then getting into a "Springer Wrestling Match" just makes it harder to come out. People see these and the drag queens at the pride events acting very flamboyantly and seeming to want ridicule and seeming to be waving a giant middle finger in their face and assume that all crossdressers must be sick, twisted, and perverted individuals who are looking to fool guys into sleeping with them and just do it to get off.

This couldn't be further from the truth. While a lot of drag queens are probably gay and are very flamboyant, most normal crossdressers just do it with the hopes they will be somewhat presentable as a woman or at the very least because they like the clothing.

I actually think that part of the reason why a lot of crossdressers feel they have to hide it (very poorly sometimes) is that there is a school of thought that says "men should be men and women should be women" and they feel like they are betraying that teaching by wanting to do something distinctly womanish. At one time women wearing pants were considered outcasts, but they fought for that saying they deserved to be equal and have the same opportunities as men, including not having to wear dresses all the time.

I once saw something where a younger woman was asked if she had it her way, would she want women to make more than men at the same job, or would she want men to feel menstrual pains. She went with the latter, saying it would be wrong for women to make more than me (same experience, same position) so the only fair thing would be for men to have experiences with the same pain that women feel once a month. She further added that she wanted women to experience how it feels to get kicked in the crotch as a guy does.

Going along with what the OP said, I feel that if more normal men "owned" wearing women's clothes, it would become treated as a more normal thing.

I'm not saying that some women's clothes don't look ridiculous on guys. Some women's clothes look ridiculous on some women...it's a matter of finding what works best for you. If you have heavy, muscular legs and arms, you probably wouldn't be helping things wearing a spaghetti strap tank top and a very short miniskirt. But if you have an average-athletic male build, wearing a long flowing skirt and a nice top with decent length sleeves, then you can rock it.

As far as shaved legs and stuff like that, I feel that the idea of male body hair removal has long been established as acceptable. Removing hair on your chest without removing hair from other places is kinda unbalanced. Male models wax all the time and no one bats an eye. So it is a matter of owning it.

[Beverley Sims]

Everybody looks to see the time that they "own it".
Adjustment is a different time span for us all and yes, one day, in our own good time we eventually "own it".


For every one it is different any way.

[Kate Simmons]

As Bev has pointed out, "we" can own it but it has to be an individual thing as to time and place. While I've taken ownership of myself and feelings not everyone is willing or able to do that yet.

[Erica Marie]

Is it really all our fault for making up these "lies". Ill be the first to admit, I am the used car salesman of lies. It mainly is because we know for a fact or are afraid that anyone who finds out will not accept it and we are not ready for the consequences. When we know society will accept us for who we are then we can be who we are. Its not just crossdressers. It has been all kinda of things through history that people have lied about. Every year we see small changes in society and most of those changes are not always accepted with open arms, but over time they are accepted. I guess somehow maybe we all need to ban together and be who we are.
How though???

[Kate Simmons]

Banding together can be somewhat problematic, especially in TG Orgs. Like anything else some tend to be more dominant and push their own personal agendas. Then it becomes more about the group and less about individual efforts and needs.The nature of being who and what we are deems that we work on what is best for us individually.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Jamie, No excuses I just do it.

[CarlaWestin]

To a discerning eye, you'll notice that there are a lot of men with shaved legs. I live in a desert climate where many people wear shorts all year 'round and I really don't think that all of the men I see with shaved legs are competitive cyclist or swimmers or, even genderous for that matter. A female co-worker once mentioned that when she first met her husband, he was, oddly, shaving his legs for no apparent reason. I just don't think it's all that uncommon, anymore.

[kimdl93]

Its important for people to work together towards common ends. The problems is that unlike an oil cartel, for example, involving a relatively small number of players who will reap huge benefits from their "collaboration", organizing tens of thousands - or even millions - of people is a hugely difficult task, while the resulting social justice is a rather diffuse benefit of indeterminate value to some people.

I agree that each of us should take what steps we can towards "owning" our identity as cross dressers. Of course, that itself is highly individualized. For me, its an expression of a blended gender leaning sharply towards female. For others, its a private and occasional pastime. And their are many variants between. I "own" my identity by going out and interacting with the community where I live...and I suppose by doing so, influence the general attitude of the community, favorably, I hope.

[Launa]

Next time the questions come up, I'm going to say, its all for me because I like it, Crossdressers.com told me not to lie and quit hiding so much!

[stefan37]

You have the right idea to say I do it because it's for me and I like it. Forget mentioning sarcastically a web forum told you. The hardest part of all of it is stepping out of your comfort zone, and getting over your self-consciousness. There may be other issues closer to home such as a partner or spouse, but that would be it.
You need to show others the confidence that this is how you want to be. You need to own it and not hide. Fear is a powerful motivator and prevents many of us from living our lives in a way to make us happy. Dress and present in a way that makes you comfortable. Others may talk, but if you own it you may find you will be treated with respect and over a short time no differently than before.

[mikiSJ]

I have gone out shopping only once en femme but I shop in person for a lot for the stuff Miki needs and I stopped making an excuse for who the lipstick, bra or dress is for, and there is a freedom that is not available in doing so if I were to say "it's for my wife/sister/daughter/friend. When I get the goods home, I own what I bought - not someone else.

[Sarasometimes]

Good points... "I lost a bet" isn't working like it used to...

Wait a minute! I must have missed this memo, SA's have caught on to "I lost a bet."? When did this happen? Who told them?

I agree that being honest and proud will help bring positive change and that excuses may hurt self esteem but not everyone here can be an outspoken pioneer. I have children that don't need to be ridiculed by their peers for a cause I wish to champion. My work, which I love doing, requires that I portray a certain image (I'm not explaining this, trust me I live it everyday). You may interpret these as more excuses, but I'm OK with that. My life's responsibilities are more important to me than championing your our cause.
My guess is that all of us lie at times about either this or some other thing to better function in the moment. Truth is not always the best answer (Illustrated in a cinematic classic Liar Liar), but when it is we should opt for it first. Wife to hubby "Do these pants make my butt look big?" truthful answer is: "No, your butt looks big because it is. I married you 30 lbs. ago." Need I say more. Anyone know a good matrimonial attorney?

[Asche]

... not everyone here can be an outspoken pioneer. I have children that don't need to be ridiculed by their peers for a cause I wish to champion. My work, which I love doing, requires that I portray a certain image ....

You know, there is a middle ground between hiding and self-shaming on the one extreme and going onto national TV and announcing "I love to dress up as a woman" on the other. The OP spoke of explaining your shaved legs or telling the salesperson that this bra or dress is for you, not announcing your CDing at the PTA meeting or client meeting.

Now, if you live in a small town where everybody is in everybody's business all the time, just about any kind of non-conformance may get you in big trouble (but then, it's going to be hard to CD even in private in a place like that.) But in the places most people live, especially in the Northeast (where you say you live), people don't pay all that much attention to the quirks of the people around them. I wouldn't suggest showing up at your kids' school "dressed," but if someone notices that your legs are shaved, or that you have pantyhose on under your suit, they'll probably just shrug and figure you have your reasons. Even if they ask, if you don't make a big deal about it (lay off the TMI!), they won't, either. As for sales associates, I know for a fact that the ones around here have seen everything and would think that the fact that you admitted to buying that sexy blouse for yourself is too boring to repeat to anyone else.

For that matter, I walk up and down the streets of my town every day or so wearing a skirt or a jumper, and most people don't react at all.

[daviolin]

We will own it, when we say to our self, I own it. I just do what I want with my crossdressing. I couldn't care less what other people think. Daviolin

[Cindia]

When will we stop making excuses for what we do? For example, in the 10 or so years that I have been here on crossdressers.com, I have seen hundreds of threads regarding how to make excuses for shaving legs or other body parts (bicycling, swimming, lost a bet, and the list goes on and on). They are your legs, why do you need to make excuses? [/U]

So far no one has asked. I'd like to think that I'd have the guts to say "your wife likes it that way" if I was ever confronted by a man, but I'm sure pretty sure I wouldn't say that to some one I didn't know.

[Jenny Doolittle]

Interesting timing of this thread, just last week my wife had corralled me into helping at a yard sale. As the day wore on and her closest friend out of the blue asked, "Do you shave your legs?" I responded, "Yes I do." "Why" she inquired. "Because I like the way they feel" I said. "Hmmmmm, I just never knew any man that did that" she said. "Well, now you do." And the conversation ended.

I never heard from my wife if she had said anything to her about it, but I am sure she would have told her that I am just a bit "Different"

Not sure if that counts as owning it, but for me I felt good about being honest.

[sometimes_miss]

When Will We Own It? When will we stop making excuses for what we do?

For most of us, it will happen when being a feminine male becomes a sexual turn on to women. In other words, not in the forseeable future.

The only thing that these excuses accomplish is to reinforce shame in your own mind.

Or maybe it allows the guy to excuse himself for doing it as well.

When a woman wears an article of male clothing, or participates in an typically male activity, she doesn't make excuses for her actions or clothing choices.

She doesn't have to, because men are attracted to a woman's body. For the most part, as long as she resembles a fertile female, men will want to have sex with her. But that doesn't work the other way around, because what women want in a male partner is not primarily determined by how we appear. It's how we behave, and how women believe we'll behave in future situations. Wearing female clothing and/or behaving in a feminine manner kills off a woman's desire for a guy who does those things, as it can easily lead her to believe he will not support/protect her should the need arise.

Why can't we as males with a feminine side admit that we enjoy doing something that is feminine such as shaving our legs, watching a chick flick, or going doing other typically feminine things.

We can. As long as we don't expect to ever have any of those women as sexual partners who know about those activities BEFORE going out with us.
I don't think that it always involves being ashamed about who we are; it's simply acknowledging that it's apparent that women aren't interested in dating men that crossdress, shave our legs, etc., and when 'caught in the act', we know what the ramifications are, and try desparately to throw people 'off the scent' that we may not be the masculine men we want them to think we are.

[Janet Bern]

I finally shaved mine and used the following reason if asked (no one has asked yet)
"I had so many patches of hair and bald spots I looked like I had mange.
I just got rid of it"

[Lynn Marie]

Situation makes all the difference in the world for "owning it". Now that I'm retired, unattached, with nobody I need to impress, I make no excuses and do as I like. It sure as hell wasn't the same when I was working, and married with child in the house!

[robindee36]

Oh Jamie, I doubt most will see this as an 'either - or' situation. We in the closet do what we do and blend it into our lives. In the case of shaved legs, I was doing that long before my dressing matured beyond a few undergarments. And yes, it was athletics that first prompted me to do this. I suspect this is where the pink fog started creeping into my life

It is way too easy to sit in judgment of others who may not enjoy the freedom to live FT but still love dressing. We each find our comfort zone with this thing and then operate within it. As others here have noted, this comfort zone may change over time as one's life situation does.

Personally, there is no shame in what I do or the way I choose to do it. Simply put, these are the bounds in which my dressing must be confined. The 'either - or' decision is to dress or not to dress. It is not acceptance or denial of who or what I am.

While we may all be crossdressers, we are certainly not monolithic in how we approach it. So long as we obey the prime directive, "have fun with it" all is good in life.

Hugs, Robin

[NicoleScott]

What you see as bogus excuses others see as valid reasons. But, hey, thanks for the lecture. I'm sure you know more about my life than I do.