The pressure to conform (on this very board!)

[PaulaQ]

There's nothing wrong with a genderqueer presentation, mink. (That's displaying some of both gender's characteristics.) However, you are right, there are some in the TG community who are almost as conformist to binary gender as the cisgendered folks.

The world is barely able to tolerate transgender where one presents as totally the opposite gender of their birth. genderqueer is kind of hard on the world - it pushes too many buttons at the same time I think, and people just overload.

Don't take it personally - you are ahead of the curve, that's all.

[Mink]

transgenderism is the new punk rock!

[LelaK]

Mink, you're sensitive, like me and other ladies, so you're okay. I suspect that you're much younger than I and numerous other of us. I feel like I don't fit in kuz I'm old and homely. We all want to fit in, i.e. be accepted/respected/appreciated.

So now I guess practical joker-type CD impersonators are going to come on here and complain about not being accepted, like us. (That thought comes from another thread from yesterday about manly CDs.)

I don't believe my sense of taste would be much bothered by a fairly attractive woman having unshaven legs or even a beard, but ... (bafflement prevents completing that thought).

I value my sense of aesthetics more than I value my self-acceptance (if by "self" I mean my appearance). So I don't accept my appearance as meeting my standard of beauty. However, I think makeup will likely help me meet it. So I hope to try that eventually. In the meantime I have higher priority pursuits than beauty to attend to, like truth and sharing.

[Beverley Sims]

What you experience is peer pressure.
Most do not have the same outlook you have.
If you wish to be an individualist that is your choice and if you post a picture of a man in a dress just accept the peer pressure comments you will get.
Others reading are like you and will appreciate the man with a beard in a dress.
So as long as you present neatly you should be right.
Do expect ridicule from less accepting onlookers though.

[Tina_gm]

my cding is completely private. I have never fully tranformed. I do it for comfort and to connect to my feminine side. It feels good and it works for me.

[docrobbysherry]

Mink, and others like u who lurk, here's how I think this forum, (which is made up of regular people, remember?), works:

1. We nearly all react negatively to someone who looks radically different.

When I first arrived here 6 years ago, (after 10 years dressing alone in a vacuum), I was shocked and aghast looking at the first photos of "men in dresses" I'd ever seen! They ALL looked so strange! And, they were all strangers.
I created Sherry just so I won't see a man in a dress.

2. Over time folks get accustomed to different looking folks. Especially after they get to know them.

Now, I look at other's pics here, and at the T friends I meet, with a completely different view. I notice how nicely their outfit, hair, shoes, makeup, etc., look. I don't see men in dresses anymore. I see friends and friends I haven't met yet!

3. Folks here will get used to and accept u once they get to know u. It helps if u accept yourself, too!

I used to get kicked around a lot when I first showed up here and began posting Sherry's photos all over the place. (Fewer photo restrictions back then). Not a lot of members had seen CD's who dressed with masks on like me. Now, most everyone has gotten used to me here. Whether or not they like Sherry's looks, I get almost no flack.

U won't be the first to post pics here with hair on your body, no wig, or no make up. And, u won't be the last. The sooner and more often all of u post, the sooner the rest of us will get used to your pics and get to know u better. Then, you'll be accepted and more comfortable presenting here, too!

[Lynn Marie]

After getting dressed and painting my face I don my hair, go to the mirror for a few styling brush strokes, and smile. It's at this point that I seem to make a transition from a guy in a dress to a classy old broad with a killer wardrobe. I did the "guy in a dress" thing privately for years before makeup and hair and finally shaving everything. Now I can't go back and have a difficult time with that "guy in a dress" out in public. It's like we're from two different worlds.

Of course you are free to do as you like, and you can condemn me for trying to fool everyone. Just trying to explain that I didn't choose to be here, it was simply a progression in the sport for me.

[Gizmo, Debbie]

I shan't tell a lie but if i get it right then it might help?

When i see a guy in dress i expect to him to making some effort to look like a girl such as no facial hair or no leg hair or anything else considered girly.
Now that problem is MINE NOT YOURS!
It can take me a few minutes to accept the PERSON as they are and NOT the image the present with.

For as open minded as people are it is a totaly natural reaction to question anything perceived as "differant". It's something that comes from animal instinct to be wary of anything differant. Is it a threat ot not, can i fight it off or do i need to run.

As humans there can be a bit of a delay between that inital primative "ohh ohh. what's that" feeling and the higher reasoning of being human kicking in.

YOU BE YOU.
If anybody has a problem with that and can't reconcile it with the higher resoning and emotional abilities of a human then they are not worth you worrying about.

for true acceptance and friendship WE have to Adapt to YOU. NOT the other way around.

[Sara Jessica]

Debbie's post really hits home for me. A couple points...

When i see a guy in dress i expect to him to making some effort to look like a girl such as no facial hair or no leg hair...

I generally agree with this statement when it comes to those who go out & about. But that's just me. Before fireballs are hurled my way, read on...

If anybody has a problem with that and can't reconcile it with the higher resoning and emotional abilities of a human then they are not worth you worrying about.

Yet despite how I feel, I have learned much in these pages over the years and have worked to reconcile other presentations, particularly the "guy in a dress" look. There have been at least two or three very thoughtful and respectable members in this forum who have really opened my eyes to their POV which happens to be much different from mine. I don't see much participation from them of late although I recently saw a post from one of these people and was glad to see that they are back.

I do admit that when you throw a beard onto a "guy in a dress" look that I still have a hard time getting my head around it when it comes to PUBLIC PRESENTATION. That's on me, not anyone else. If a picture were posted to this effect, I'd probably refrain from comment.

But I think where many here are being painted with a broad brush unfairly is when it comes to the individual who is truly trying to present a feminine image, perhaps with a wig and makeup but with tufts of chest hair poking out of their top, or hairy mitts, or fur evident under their nylons. I see those people being "gently" advised that those visual cues are betraying their effort to be feminine. The problem is that such advice is like "tell me something I don't already know" in that perhaps that individual would like to remove the fur but cannot for whatever reason so it becomes sort of a catch-22.

Some here believe in community. I know I do. But my world view was formed by experiences and those I know personally and I certainly didn't arrive here overnight. Others eschew such a POV and that's fine, just as many eschew labels. We are all different which is what makes this wonderful world go around. Still, as has been mentioned before, some of us don't quite see things through the same colored glass as you, just as you don't necessarily see things our way. That doesn't make us foes, it simply makes us different. People are people and they will either come to understanding and/or empathy (I know I've tried) or simply hold fast to their first impression. I guess it is what it is.

[May(be)]

Mink,

I completely agree with your rant. I even posted a question on this board a while back that asked the question "does this board encourage femininity at the expense of masculinity?" The answers were extremely candid. Many of the members- including moderators- blatantly explained that it does by design, and they'd like to make that sort of marginalization even more prominent.

I feel bad for the crossdresser who comes here and doesn't want to shave. The man who likes wearing dresses.
I feel bad for the crossdresser who is just starting to explore their confused relationship to gender.
I feel bad for the fetishist who isn't looking to go outside presenting female.

This board casts a wide-net for who it claims to represent. Unfortunately "crossdresser" is a very nebulous term, as others in this thread have pointed out. I think the best way to deal with idealogues on this board is to include a disclaimer about who you are (your GI) and what you plan to achieve with your crossdressing at the top of any picture threads you'd like to post. I'm not suggesting EVERYONE should post that disclaimer at the top of their thread, but maybe CD.com members who deviate from the accepted culture of CD.com should. Is that discrimination? Maybe, but don't expect positive responses to your picture thread if CD.com members think they're looking at another "do I pass" pic dump.

But, if you wear a dress and have a huge, burly beard, it's all good to me.


Addendum: It's important to state the thread I posted was nearly a year ago. Since then the culture has changed on this board, somewhat. Also, moderators are free to post their ideas of what this board embodies, just like any other member. I'm simply relaying what was said at the time.

[Tina_gm]

One of the reasons why I do not go out in public is because I do not want to alter my appearance. For me to go out I would want to pass, really pass. Cudos for those who do not care and are just comfortable being and looking how they are. I do not and would not expect a conformity for Cders, it is just my personal desire not to stand out in a crowd. I can see where some might feel a pressure to do more or be more than what they wish to be or are comfortable with. I CD because it comforts me and helps me to connect to my feminine side. I have no other reason. If I gave the effort and made the alterations to my appearance I could possibly blend, as I am 5'9" and small boned, thin at around 160ish. Not real big hands or feet. But I would have to shave my goatee and probably do some work on my eyebrows and arm hair, which is not very hairy, but hairy enough that it would draw attention. Too much of my life is being the guy I am and I am not willing to sacrifice my normal appearance for the small amount of time that I do dress and that I would go out. Would I like to at times? sure. One day I may do a full transformation. I am curious as to how I would look. I am realistic though and even if I were to do a transformation, I am certain that I would not completely pass. not with close scrutiny. I am content to dress partially (no wig or make up) and express my feminine side as I can in private. I know that I told my wife I will never say never, and that is an issue for her, but I just do not want to put myself in a box. I am content enough to allow my feminine side expression in private, and still be the guy I am both in private and in public.

[Cheryl T]

Having a beard and body hair is not my thing...but I've been there.
There were many years when that's the only way I could dress and it was fine. I didn't look for anyone's approval and didn't care if anyone disapproved. It was me and how I felt and enjoyed my dressing at the time.
The same is true for you. Do what you feel is right for you, not for everyone else, but also don't look for blanket approval.
No one really cares what you do in your home and what makes you happy. I think that what you are seeing is the discussion about those that venture out in public with a beard and hairy body dressed. So many of us have tried to be accepted by the public and as with any other group there are those on the "fringe". I'm not saying this is a negative, but it is usually perceived that way by those outside the community much in the way that Hell's Angels are perceived and are interpreted to be representative of all who ride motorcycles. No, this is not the right way to see a portion of a group, but it is what happens as people always make generalizations and those that are the most flamboyant and "in your face" are the ones that produce the image in other's minds.


Do you thing, enjoy what you do, post your pictures, but remember that we are people too. If you ask for comments or criticism be prepared to receive them, and there will most likely be ones that sting.


Yes, you are welcome here as all are. Please don't expect us to all be alike or you are guilty of the same categorization that those outside the forum are.


Just be yourself.... and as someone once told me.... "Pressure is self-imposed".

[sweetshauna]

Just be you. To hell with naysayers. After all, if they have male genitalia and in a dress, underneath they ARE a man in a dress.
I shave, do make-up. getting forms and a wig. when all is said and done, i'll still be a man in a dress. I love to feel fem, and I plan to keep wearing all the womanly attire.
And if, no when, my CDing goes public I will present as much like a woman as possible. But again I will still be, and look like a man in a dress. so I don't see the difference whether you're shaved or not.
if it did, wouldn't that make me a hypocrite?
Post us a pic , in drab, or enfemme. JUST DON'T SHAVE!!!!!
Rub it in their face. hahahaha

[Lucy_Bella]

Some here do live double lifes there's no doubt and many of us don't only enjoy our male side but have those who are close to us that only know of that side ...To shave a beard that can take months to grow is making a very loud statement and Lucy there's gonna be some explaining to do when it's gone.. So some of us would rather not go through having to explain to dozens of people as to why our face is naked..

To me having a beard while dressed honestly wasn't by choice I wished it gone while dressed but I knew it would come at a cost in my double life ..In saying that I also wish my male chin and lower jaw gone , my uni-brow, my muscular arms and broad shoulders not to mention the adams apple I too carry those over when dressed ..Should I do something about these other items to represent the community properly? I understand that most here are only talking about the style of how some dress and rightfully so ..Dress when out with respect and perhaps to match your age but to me shaving a beard is no different than shaping eyebrows ..

[Tina B.]

Yes Mink, there is a gender/fashion police, but fortunately they have no real authority and are not to be taken serious. You are not the first one that feels the way you do as to how you dress, we had many guy's in a dress. I for one don't dress for fun, I dress to fill a need, how I dress is not important since I'm in the closet. But some days it's full on dress, heels and makeup, but some times it's just a skirt and a bald headed old man that needs a shave. both can fill my need. Who am I to tell you or anyone else, how to fill your needs?
I will look at your photos just I do all the rest and what I'll be thinking is another proud sister that is peeking out of the closet, how wonderful!

[Billie Jean]

Mink look at my avatar. Be yourself and post your picture. I for one would be glad to have you share with us. Billie Jean

[kimdl93]

Not everyone is going to respond with encouragement. We can't reasonably expect conformity In people's reactions to different styles and preferences any more than we can expect individuals to conform to one way of presenting or experiencing CDing. Even intolerance is a prerogative. As Erin said, enjoy being yourself and don't worry about 'acceptance'.

[Jenniferathome]

Mink, for me, it's all in when I dress. I can't reconcile the female shape and clothing with my male face. in the same way, I have adopted a female name when dressed. Not that anyone is really using it for me. And that's me. When in public, I am hypersensitive to presentation for fear of being embarrassed. Again, that's me. Reconciling the female part with the male part is different for everyone. "I don't get it" and "You shouldn't do it" are very different things. I do not get the guys with beards and dresses but I do not live with their consequences of that choice. My rules apply to me and my wife. No more.

[CarlaWestin]

Great discussion. Although my recent avatar and profile pictures display complete transformation, I am primarily a gender fetishist. This all started with an extreme breast fetish and I do get quite a charge out of displaying somewhere between M and F, only artfully. Figure that one out. Funny, when I had a protracted block of private time recently, I opted to stay home while fully transformed. I was obsessed with getting the perfect images of me as a woman and I did. My forays out in public were quite different. Basically, well endowed but of questionable gender. I was practically unnoticed and treated respectfully by the few people I encountered. I'm not sure which adventure was more exciting but I do know it was all about emulating what I wanted to be and it was fun.

[Asche]

I'm another (occasional) participant here who presents as a man but wears skirts and dresses. I haven't ever posted a picture of myself because back when I was first posting and mentioned how I dress, I got some pretty nasty responses. I have the impression that the mods started cracking down some time after that and people seem to be reasonably polite nowadays, but it's going to take a long time before I sit on that particular stove lid again.

Another reason I don't post pictures of myself is that I don't have much faith that anyone would understand what I'm doing enough to give me useful feedback. I don't need affirmation from here -- I go out "dressed" all the time and people seem at least tolerant and sometimes appreciative of how I dress. What I could use is some feedback to improve my presentation.
I actually go to quite a bit of effort with it -- I mostly wear clothes I've made myself because clothes made for women don't fit me in a way that I think looks good, and I spend a fair amount of time figuring out what to wear with what and looking in the mirror. But I'm not trying to pass as a woman, and my impression is that if I did post pictures, most of the advice I'd get would be focussed on what I need to pass better.

Lately, I haven't felt a lot of actual pressure to change my presentation, to the extent I talk about it at all. What I do feel is the absence of people who would appreciate my presentation and who I could talk to about it.

I wonder if it would make sense to propose a "mixed presentation" forum for the men who aren't looking to pass as women?

[Sandra]

I wonder if it would make sense to propose a "mixed presentation" forum for the men who aren't looking to pass as women?

This is a site for crossdressers, you wear womens clothing and don't identify as TS then you are a crossdresser whether you want to pass or not. There will not be another forum section created on here, as the MtF covers everybody.

[JennyLynn]

Wow. That's a tough one. I totally support you in your just liking to wear womens clothes. I guess I go whole hog because I really want to let the feminine side of me out. Maybe you don't have a femme side..that's cool. But it does seem to be a bit contradictary with your wanting to dress. NOT being critical here, it's just something I can't relate to. I'm sure there are alot of reasons why some of us dress, but I think it does have alot to do with our "feminine" side and maybe not so much as a fetish. There's nothing wrong with fetishes, in fact, most are totally harmless. I just think that most dressers are experiencing something that more deals with their internal feminine proclivities....did I spell that right???

I really don't think we should be rubbing anything into anybodys face. This is a site for all of us to explore ourselves, not a place to jab each other. I can get that from the general public!

[Rachael Leigh]

Mink I agree with you it prob is different and maybe strange, why get in a dress at all if your not going to add all the other stuff, but you know what so what. Many days I get dressed up in my girls stuff and never add anything to it. I do shave my legs because I enjoy them smooth but if you don't who cares. I know Im a man and that will never change and if I like wearing a dress or skirt so what, I will try to look more like a girl sometimes and other times Im just in my girls clothes so good for you

[Jaymees22]

Wow, look what you have started here! How about be true to yourself and just do whatever you feel comfortable with. I dress to feel better, to be myself and to express myself in a whole new way. Hugs Jaymee

PS: On my male Facebook page I have a picture of my dog.

[Dani0948]

One really nice thing about our forum is you can read (or not), post (or not). We each can participate to whatever level we want. If I don't like or agree with any thread I usually skip it. There is always another thread that I will find interesting.