Passing or not

[MsJanessa]

I've read some posts where a lot of TVs have said they don't want to go out it public because they can't "pass". Its always been My view that passing or not is not that important--some of the most attractive TVs,TGs and even TSs can't pass all the time---and also some of the most passable CDs are not all that attractive---I have a friend who can always pass---but she is older, heavier and looks like My maiden aunt---but she can walk down a mall or crowded street and not draw a glance from anybody----conversely one of the Hottest CDs I know, the one most popular with the guys and other CDs stands 6'2'' in stocking feet---6'6'' in heels and always draws attention--yet I am very attracted to her---as is everybody else. The point is not about passing or not, it's about looking your best and being confident in who you are--very few of us can pass in all situations and those of us who do aren't necessarily the most beautiful. That should not stop you from going out in public.

[Sam-antha]

Ms Janessa has a point or two. The first being it is all about confidence. After all, consider the shape and size of many women. I love the length of leg of some of the 5'10" variety, and some shapes I stare at or at least look twice at. Nice. Then about being read, is that so serious if it happens and you are an unknown. Do you look anything recognisable as you ? If your are read that is.

[Julie]

In a CD/TG environment I'd say your observations are correct but you need to consider many of us have no place to go when dressed other than the supermarket or some other mainstream establishment. A 6'6" woman will draw attention no matter where she goes. Your average CD/TG has no desire to be the focal point of attention. They just want to blend in unnoticed and enjoy being a woman. Thus, the desire to pass. Confidence plays a big part plus fear of the unknown. What will happen?

In a friendly environment these things hardly even matter. And if you are tall or overly attractive or just very friendly you can become the center of attention quickly, but at least you'll know it's all good attention.

[Nikki Dee]

I agree...it's all about being confident and comfortable about who you are...not all RG's are stunners as you may have noticed...and I very often notice how tall Rg's are these days....so people see generally what they think they are seeing...enjoy.!!
love Nikki. x

[Rene]

You are quite right. Confidence is everything. I find that most people are to busy with there own lives to even notice you unless you give them a reason to. If you are nervous or avoid eye contact, it just sends up a red flag. I have come to not care if I am read. I figure at worst I am good example for the transgender community.

[Sam-antha]

That is really it "C & C."
I wish to goodness that I had a friendly environment to visit sometimes. Edinburgh is as near as I know and that is mostly out of reach.
More importantly, I used to think that to avoid eye contact was important, it is not so, eye contact, not overlong, produces confidence in appearance. But please let the contact be fleeting, dont flirt.
Somebody mentioned the fear of what might happen..... in a way that "fear", , providing you are confident, is part of a sort of rush on going through that door, whether it is your house, car or a shop.

[Reana]

"conversely one of the Hottest CDs I know, the one most popular with the guys and other CDs stands 6'2'' in stocking feet---6'6'' in heels and always draws attention--yet I am very attracted to her---"



Confidence is directly related to self image. "Passability" is all in the mind. I think the word "passable" is much overused among CDs. For most, to be truly passable they would have to be pre-op or post-op Transexual and on hormones. I could never be passable or fool anyone due to my height, among other reasons. My goal has always been to be seen as a male that is capable of presenting a very femme appealing image when dressed totally femme. I would be very satisfied to be seen as one of those CDs described in the previous response documented above. I realize this may conflict with some of the "purists" here but there does seem to be two camps here in terms of what we wish to accomplish with our dressing. I hope the picture included in this message is something many can relate to.

[KathrynW]

I realize this may conflict with some of the "purists" here but there does seem to be two camps here in terms of what we wish to accomplish with our dressing.

Honestly...I'd say there are probably more than "two camps". There are as many reasons, goals, etc. for cd-ing, and passing or not-passing, as there are people who are doing it. I seriously doubt that we'll ever all be in mutual agreement on the subject of "passing".
I personally believe that passing is very important. That's precisely why I don't venture out in public, myself. Yes, I've heard many times that it's all about "attitude" and I buy that to a certain extent. I also feel that geographic location has a lot to do with passing.

[Jodi]

Just my two cents worth as one who goes out in regular venues.

To be presentable and accepted--that is my goal. For passability, I pass the 200/200 test. I am totally passable at 200 yards and at 200 mph. I posted about my experience this new years eve. Some knew immediately, some had doubts at first, and some were clueless. The positive comments were that I had confidence, had poise, had a together look, and that I knew how to accessorize an outfit. Yes, they know I was a guy in a dress, but they appreciated the effort that I went to to look good. That leads to acceptance.

Also, a comment about eye contact that was made. Do make eye contact with others, and SMILE. I can not over emphasize the smile. Woman greet each other, even strangers, with a smile. I have found that when out as a cd in a regular venue, a sincere smile will always break the ice with a woman.

Jodi

[windycissy]

Passing has become second-nature to me by now, although I always feel those butterflies in my stomach when I go out the door. On rare occasion when I just don't "feel" right about the way I look, I'll stay home. Once I'm out and about, I try to think of myself as a woman, and that's really not a hard thing to do when you're wearing a skirt and stockings, feeling earrings dangling and inhaling the scent of your own cologne. Getting into character while I'm putting on my makeup helps - like practicing my Windy voice - but no matter how together I look and feel, on rare occasion I still get read. I hate it, but I just move on. I figure, even if 10% of the people I encounter realize I'm a guy, 90% of the time I am passing as a woman, and I'm not going to give that up to avoid the occasional embarrassment. Still, I always stay in safe places and get home before it's too late.

Windy

[SweetHosedFeet]

A couple of thoughts...

First of all going out in public is NOT for everybody.

I stand 6'1 on my hosed feet so I'm far from "passing" and still I have had wonderful times out to both public (supermarket/cinema/restaurant) and friendly places.

I didn't have any "bad" experiences while out and from my point of view, confidence was my best asset. Let me explain, average women in Mexico City are about 5'2 so obviously there's no way I could have "passed" as a girl.

Also, men there (I just moved to Guatemala) are not exactly what you would call "open-minded" so that wasn't something I could count to my advantage while out.

Attractive (as well as ugly) girls (GG/CD/TV/TS) always get people's attention everywhere and most of us don't really look like your average "next door" kind of girl so keep that in mind if passing is that important to you.

I think that passing at 100% is impossible because it doesn't matter where you go, someone will ALWAYS find out that you're not a girl and depending on how he/she behaves, few or several others could find out as well (come on, you really think he/she's going to keep it for him/herself?) so if you're going out it would be best not to focus as much on "passing" as on self-confidence, at least from my point of view.

Anyway, I do like the kind of attention people give me when I go out so I couldn't care less about passing. Still... as I said before, going out is not for everybody.

Yours,
Zara

[Michelle Hart]

For me I would like to pass but my height makes that very difficult. So I have began to focus more on being "Believable" by acting moving and sounding like a woman.

Just tonight I stopped for gas and saw a GG and the first thing I thought was .....what a sloppy guy......... then I realized this guy was actualy a girl upon further examination.

So there are many GG's out there who carry themselves so poorly and dress so badly that at first glance you may beleive they are male. So their gender is the only thing that makes them "pass".

Don't worry so much about Passing, be belieable.......

[Rachel Morley]

The point is not about passing or not, it's about looking your best and being confident in who you are--very few of us can pass in all situations and those of us who do aren't necessarily the most beautiful.

Hear! Hear! MsJanessa.

Here's a link to another time we discussed passing earlier in December.
http://crossdressers.com/forums/show...291#post281291

[Helana]

I have noticed that the holy grail of passing is being discussed less and less on CD sites so I think the message is slowly sinking in that passing is not the end goal at all, the objective is to be who you are and be confident in projecting that image. People will accept you if they sense that you are genuine in your conviction. Confidence is the key to unlocking the outside door.

One key thought is this - nobody who sees you knows how many times you have been out en femme. They have no way of knowing that this is your first, second third or one hundredth time out. In fact they will most likely assume that you do this all the time so why not take advantage of their assumption and act as if you really are a full time woman

[GypsyKaren]

I think way to much emphasis and worry is put on passing, it gets to be like a sword hanging over your head. Let's face it, we have the wrong genes and features, and there's only so much you can do with a wig and make-up. I for one am not going to let "god's little mistake" keep me from living my life the way it was meant to be lived.

I've been going out now for almost a year, and the only problems I've had are an oggasional giggle from teen-age girls, and a few stares. I treat everyone with courtesy and respect, and pretty much get that in return. I'm not out to be taken for a woman, just as a person. For me it's all about being myself and feeling real, and that makes me feel pretty, so I'm happy with that.

GypsyKaren

[ReginaK]

I am one of those people, that even if I were on hormones, my sheer size would keep from passing for anything other than an extremely masculine women.

I've come to the conclusion that the day I do go public, I won't try even very hard to "pass". I'll just carry myself as properly as possible. As far as trying to pass as a woman, I believe that would attract more attention than if I were to just behave normally.

[Miss Vicki]

I went to the mall the other day and looked at people as they walked by. I thought that, "What if all the female looking people were really males dressed as females?" How many could I spot as crossing over".
There were many that I saw as, men in a dress that were actually GG'S. I mean that they looked just about as good as I would if I was walking there with them. They deffinitely had the confidence to walk around and not be as scared to death as I would be. They looked kinda ........... natural. Hmmmmmmm Maybe there is something to that. I we just walked around like we own the place we can pass.
Just my observation. Has anyone else thought the same ???

[Helana]

Hi Vicki

I have had the exact same observation. I often see women who could easily be mistaken for men if only they appeared anxious and unnaturally stiff in their behaviour. It is their natural confidence which sends you the loud signal that this must be a GG.

I have seen some clips of Transamerica which has a GG playing the role of a TS in transition. In order to convince you that she is is a MTF TS, the actress stiffened up her body, made her body movements more awkward and appeared less confident in herself to project the idea that she was not a GG. It is an interesting way to look at this issue as the actress had to de-construct what made her a woman.

As far as trying to pass as a woman, I believe that would attract more attention than if I were to just behave normally.

Quite correct, if you followed these "passing guides" they would have you doing all sorts of stupid things which would only make you stand out more. A classic is the instruction to place one foot in front of the other as if you were walking along a tightrope. Well I dare you to go to your local mall and find any woman who does this. I have failed miserably. Only fashion models practice this type of exaggerated walk, nobody else.

Another is walking balancing a book on your head. That type of poise may have been all the rage in Victorian times but would look incredibly stiff today.
Why not throw in the whalebone corset and huge petticoat to complete the blending in

[Nyx]

In my opinion, passing is all in the face. It's very easy to hide the less interesting parts of the body with appropriate clothing, to turk, to wear a waist cincher, padded panties and breast forms. This simply does the trick.

But your face, you can hardly hide. It's what you show to people everyday, all the time... And some men have a very masculine face. The only thing you can do, short of surgery, is a killer makeup job, but it might not suffice.

[MandyTS]

Passing is a term that I no longer use or accept. I feel that NO CD will ever be 100% passable unless there were other factors such as myself being intersexed, etc. Even then TSs are only about 99.9% passable, and some less.

The only way to be really percieved as a woman is for someone to look at you without you moving, study your body lines, facial structure, and stature and say, GG! The only way that is going to happen is through FFS, hormones, etc. There are certain diviations from the norm but it is rather strict in regards to what things scream GG, which is the percise reason that FFS is so popular.

I say a GG in the store the other day, she was actually 1/2 inch taller that me and I am 6'6'. There was no mistaking she was a GG based on facial structure alone; no mannerisms, voice, etc was required. That is why I would not dream of going full time without brow ridge reduction, mainly because that is the most masculine part of my face and the most noticable to me.

In regards to the word passing, I perfer to use the word "organically living in the role of our choice." If we choose to live and not pertend things just fall into place. To be honest, the only way we live organically is to embrace womanhood in all aspects of our lives, and that really means, really, becoming a woman on the inside.

I can not CD anymore in the way many people do, I just feel fake. In 12 months of so I will have breasts and be closer to the ideal female weight and size. At that time part time living will be a reality, a few years later RLT and SRS are probable.

We don't ever really pass, we live: Plain and Simple!

[paulaN]

Passing is always my goal but if I don't get out soon it might not matter. I realy need a girls day out. he## I'll take a girls day in right now.

[Sam-antha]

There is so much to read and absorb in this series... I can only say that when I go out, my aim is to do just that... go out.
What is involved if you do not pass ? Temporary embarassment from an unknown ? Forget that, the unknown will probably never see you again.
Might the unknown recognise the "you" under the "en femme you" ? Very doubtful, so forget that too.
Just go out, be confident and project the image that you are supposed to do. A happy woman/girl which is what you will be when you are out..

[JoAnnDallas]

I have started believing in the old saying.

"If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it must be a duck".

I have started believing that most people will see you this way. if you look like a woman, walk like a women, use a fem voice, then you must be a women.

When I am out and about, if I see a person dressed as a women, with makeup, hair, nails, and etc, I will assume that it's a women. In 99% of the time I will then go on my merry way and not worry about her. I feel when we are out dressed, that 99% will look at us, see a women and go their merry way.

[Rachael R]

I always traveled to the "big city" to go out since whether I passed or not, there was a certain amount of anonimity since only my TG friends there knew me. Those weekend trips boosted my confidence level immensly.

As my confidence grew, I began clubbing in the local area, usually local gay venues because I didn't have to be "on my guard" so much.

One of the biggest confidence boosters I ever had was the night I played pool with some lesbian girls that worked with me on a daily basis and they did not recognize me.

Hold your head up, and act natural, and most of all, act like you belong whereever you are. You will be amazed how well things go.

[Wendy me]

see this passing thingy it's more of them lable things thrown in with every thing , passing just what is it ?? to look like a drop dead beautfull gg?? to have every one looking at you or just to blend in and not have anyone notice you at all??by what standards do we judge "passing" ??? and whay dose everyone make such a big deal out of it ??? and dose every one need to pass? well to me cding is so diffrent to so manny difrent cders i say do what your comfy with and it's all good....if setting at home in stockings and heels
hairyer than sasquash is what makes you happy veary cool....if shaved plucked and tuched dressed to the 9's out and abought dose it for you cool it's so manny difrent things to so manny difrent people ... it's all good be who you are and be happy...