Sherry, I know this. I'm sure that many of the members here enjoy a walk on the wild side every once in a while.Originally Posted by docrobbysherry
Sherry, I know this. I'm sure that many of the members here enjoy a walk on the wild side every once in a while.
Reine
Exactly Sherry!!! So if my text does not come across intelligent enough for those who read it my thought process does..We have lived it, and Sherry . It wasn't until my early forties until I really had a chance to openly experiment..Same difference .. Alone in the world no body around to care or protest..Why not?
You know what I am saying..I am a Grand father,Dad and at one time a caring loving husband and family man..I worked my ass off to provide not only because I had to but because I wanted to..I loved my life I had and just like a rug it was pulled out from me for no reason other than a sexual sensation and not from my behalf...
I was tamed I never brought this into my marriage once it was not accepted..But I never forgot it..It was heaven sent when the walls fell in and it gave the strength to carry on.. To fill that empty spot forced upon me and my daily life ..Yeah,maybe a pervert but in my own line of sight..
Last edited by Lucy_Bella; 12-08-2013 at 11:04 PM.
I do not!! Claim to be an expert on any topic, when I post a new thread or reply on any thread my imput is strickly that of a crossdresser. Not to offend Gay people , Transexuals or any other life style, I am only commenting on one of my own.
This thread has been a very good discussion on the validity and meaning of the research study on TF in question. I think that Tristessa and Isha have especially shed some light on the subject based on their professional background and I thank them for that.
I question some of these clinical psychology studies on a much more fundamental basis and that is the entire premise of the study. What makes transvestic fetishism any different that “cis-vestic” fetishism and if your study interest is prevalence of fetishism why single out transvestites? You might just be missing the forest for the trees.
We are bombarded with advertising media and with entertainment media on a daily basis for sexually provocative clothing (the “vestments”) aimed mostly at sexual arousal of the heterosexual male and sometimes the heterosexual female. Are these researchers going to do a study on the “prevalence as well as the social, sexual, and health correlates” of women who buy a sexy nightie outfit at Walmart to entice her husband in the bedroom? Not likely (ignoring the fact that the Walmart market research team in Arkansas has the data already). And if you want to single out autoerotic fetishism then there all those “straight” guys getting off on looking at the sports illustrated calendar and such.
This kind of study serves to emphasize the “difference” of trans folks from non-trans folks when it just might be the case that the prevalence of vestic festishism could be statistically identical in both populations. I am reminded of racist research projects of the 20th century designed to show how blacks were different from whites.
Just my opinion and thoughts.
Hugs,
Stephanie
"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." Helen Keller (The Open Door)
"I give her my heart but she wanted my soul...But don't think twice, it's all right" Bob Dylan (1963)
I'm not really sure what your point is. The DSM is not the book of human psychology, it's a manual for diagnosis of mental disorders. Those who cross-dress for sexual reasons but do not experience any form of distress do not require a diagnosis (or treatment), but it's still transvestic fetishism.
Zylia, thank you for calling me on that, it deserves clarification. Hope I did not offend! I made that statement because I felt like (admittedly because of my own pro-CD biases) the researchers were focused on the "disorder", but failed to include the most important criteria that distinguishes cases that need clinical attention from those that don't. I worry that this might lead to a misinterpretation of the data as evidence of the prevalence of the "disorder", rather than of normal, well-adjusted TvF, and might therefore contribute to unnecessary pathologizing. I also wanted to make sure that everyone was on the same page that their operationalization of TvF did not include non-fetish CD, since there is clearly a large segment of this community that does not fit into that narrow label.
T
Not offended, just worried about people using the DSM (and it's 'definitions') beyond its intended purpose. That happens a lot and often does more harm than good. Whether or not someone actually feels distressed is very important, but it might not be that relevant for this particular research.
all i will say is that Yes i am prone to other fetishes and i can see some of myself in the scientific article, but not all. i'm certainly not an exhibitionist or a peeping tom. but there is a very dark sexual side to my CDing. i'm just being honest. hope that doesn't offend anyone.
Last edited by DAVIDA; 12-13-2013 at 06:06 AM. Reason: If you had read the rules, you would know that disscussing mod decisions are against them.
Laciewhite, I'm not sure why anyone would be offended by that, it's just the reality of things. Most guys here dress up to fill some kind of emotional need, in a lot of cases it's the desire to feel 'feminine' (whatever that means), in some cases it's more about certain kinds of excitement. People like you who are truly open about it are heavily outnumbered on this board, but please don't let that discourage you.
My goodness, I'm certainly enjoying this thread. I've received more free education in 58 posts than I got from all of public school. With everything else going on, it's Friday the 13th and I don't care. I'm anti-triskaidekaphobic. I wonder if Freud (fraud) and my long ago fired therapist would blame that on mom?
I've waited so long for this time. Makeup is so frustrating. Shaking hands and I look so old. This was a mistake.
My new maid's outfit is cute. Sure fits tight.
And then I step into the bedroom and in the mirror, I see a beautiful woman looking back at me.
Smile, Honey! You look fabulous!
A study was done and the results were published. Those studied were not under the CD umbrella, but from the general population. The study never said that 2.8% of the men crossdressed. It said that 2.8% of the men studied experienced at least one episode of transvestic fetishism. Not all CDers are fetish-driven. It isn't surprising that some people like weird thngs. That doesn't make other CDers guitly by association.
Isha, don't even THINK about monkeys and typewriters. I was forced to read Shakespear once and that was ENOUGH! haha
Carla - brilliant response.
Last edited by NicoleScott; 12-13-2013 at 10:53 AM. Reason: corr
Confucius - I've tagged my answers to yours above, if you're interested. The whole thread is interesting but for me just proves again that humans are complex and the scientists just look for handy pigeon holes to place everyone in. You and I seem to share some strong commonality in some areas, but not in others. I suspect for the academic community TF fits into a nice, 'close to homosexual PC-type' interest - I also suspect that many more people than admit it have some sort of fetishistic interest in objects or people (men in uniforms, sheep, sea food.. ) - unfortunately for us CDers, our involuntary fetish is ripe for ridicule, stereotyping and misinterpretation.
I'd also admit that I'll keep my activities behind closed doors for all these reasons... plus the fact that if anyone ever does categorise us as having a disorder, they'll look to start offering treatment...
Really interesting thread - giving me some ideas for new topics...
Kx
"Put some lipstick on - Perfume your neck and slip your high heels on
Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear" Stefani Germanotta
Katey, you are right. We didn't ask for a fetish, we just got one. Those who dress to express their internal feminine identity and accept it as "who I am" want to distance themselves from fetish dressers who they see as having a disorder in need of treatment. They don't want to be seen as sexual deviants by association and by their own stereotyping and misinterpretetion. Yes, some people have weird kinks, but for some of us, certain objects or CDing in general can arouse us and we may at times act on those urges. Big deal. And even those with weird kinks can safely and discretely enjoy them.
Too clinical for me. I need some alone time. Where's my lipstick?
If you are to believe what you read, then it seems that fetishes are mainly a male trait. Are CD'ers prone to other fetishes, I guess that depends on the individual. If we are only talking about fetish CD'ers, it is still very difficult to make any particular connections, as there are so many different ways it all started. The why's of how each person started to dress that is. It is obvious to see that the fetish part usually started shortly after the first set of emissions.
Not meaning to hijack the post, but is it possible that Cd'ers could be drawn to women who have there particular "kink"? If it is possible for a CD'er to have more than one fetish, and women generally don't have fetishes, then what about the possibility of them being "kinky" in some area? If they are not getting their "fix", then one can easily see how they could get upset, and frustrated too. Think about your fantasies, but what about hers? If I saw someone get the freedom to play dress up, and I couldn't be free with my "kink", I would be frustrated and unhappy. Why would I want to give freedom, when I had none! It sort of goes like this, "if I can't, then no one can either". Now in bringing this around to the present, if what I am reading is true, then about 10% of women are into some mild forms of bondage. Just look at the popularity of the Shades of Grey books. So here is a question. Are we so into our fetish, we are over looking our spouses needs of fulfillment? Could we have been drawn to someone of a "kinky" interest, ours being CDing, and hers being...whatever?
Last edited by Gillian Gigs; 12-13-2013 at 12:11 PM. Reason: Add a sentence
I like myself, regardless of the packaging that I may come in! It's what is on the inside of the package that counts!
I don't see my crossdressing as fetish. I was 100% without a doubt born this way and I don't think a "fetish" is something you develop when you're 4. I just knew I liked girly things at that time. Of course now that I'm older, I find some sexuality in my dressing, but that's just a normal part of life. I truly feel like I am 1 body with 2 souls, neither of which are asexual! Lol. So sex is just a normal part of the life experience of Kristina if that makes any sense. Just like the fact that I love fashion, interior design, making crafts and other girly things - it's just me!
My Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kristinanolagirl/
Better get busy living, or you get busy dying.
Michelle V (post #31) and Kristina (post #64), nobody is saying that all CDing is fetish-driven. I don't dress to express an internal feminine identity as many do, but I GET it that some people's gender identity doesn't conform to their sex. My gender identity does conform, and I see myself as a guy who likes being a guy, and who likes to transform occasionally because it is exciting and exhilirating apart from the sex but also sexually arousing and strongly connected to fetishes. Just as some CDers dress to express a feminine identity, some of us dress to "feed the fetish".
Kristina, I'm curious to know why you don't think one develops a fetish around age 4. Maybe you can be born with a feminine self-awareness or identity, but you certainly can't be born with a pantyhose fetish. I think it quite likely that fetishes DO develop [emerge, happen..??] around age 3-4. For many of us, and for as long as we can remember, we had strange and strong attractions to certain items that women wear. Since we don't have conscious recollections before about age 2, if not as a toddler age 3-4, Kristina, then WHEN?
My opinion is that yes, a great many of us do have other fetishes. I certainly have always had. I think this is one of the few observations of that dumbass Ray Blanchard that holds much water.
Fetish? Like all the other terms here, I'll bet few here would agree on just what a fetish is.
I think Unconventional Line of Thinking would be more descriptive. Now the answer is a resounding YES for many Forum participants.
I give you [just ONE of MANY such threads] exhibit A. 319 replies and 26,126 views since it was posted on 10/14/13.
Other similar threads are easy to find with similar results/big numbers.
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...boys-as-a-girl
I think that the term fetish can be abused.
I do have a couple of what might be termed fetishes, but I am not sure I can distinguish between those and turn-ons.
Wild, are you suggesting that there is a term that we use here on the forum and don't have complete agreement as to its definition? Ha!
There was a thread a few years ago "What's Your Fetish?" There's always the "I don't have one" folks who want to make sure you know that the reason they dress is legitimate girliness, not sex. Some responded with "I like pantyhose". So you are correct, many don't know what a fetish is.
Alone with my fetish-driven crossressing for decades before the internet, I read everything I could find about CDing in general and fetishes in particular. Most of what was available was in psychology books or Penthouse Forum, leading me to believe that, at least in others' eyes, I had a mental disorder or I was a sexual deviant or both. So I stayed deep in the closet.
Here's what I think a fetish is (a sexual fetish, that is), and most dictionaries agree (rather , I agree with the dictionaries): an inanimate object or non-sexual body part (hair or feet, for example, as opposed to boobs) that causes arousal. It is not necessary for that object to always be present for arousal to happen. A person can still be aroused by "normal" sexual attraction. I think that it is truly a fetish if the object, high heels for example, by themselves can cause arousal, aside from being worn by an otherwise sexually attractive partner. Many high heel fetishists, again for example, get aroused by looking at high heels, holding them, smelling them (there was a recent leather-smelling thread), kissing them, and wearing them, or even by looking at pictures of them.
If a person cannot get aroused without the fetish object present, I call that an extreme fetish.
It shouldn't be difficult for people to know whether they have a fetish or not. It's pretty self-evident. The question is, can you admit it to yourself and others?
Added comment: it is possible for CDing to be fetish-driven but for that CD to enjoy other aspects of CDing aside from the sexual. Many enjoy going out, and do so not in a state of arousal. It would be incorrect to believe that all fetish crossdressers dress up, immediately masturbate, and immediately undress. Sometimes that is the case, but not always.
Last edited by NicoleScott; 12-14-2013 at 09:32 AM. Reason: added comment
I suspect there are relationships, but they have the cause and effect backwards. I had a difficult time hiding my feminine nature, and it was often misinterpreted by both men and women who assumed things that were completely wrong.
- Separation from parents -- Mom suffered from clinical depression, Dad found good families to help take care of me when she was being hospitalized. I also spent a great deal of time in hospitals due to my severe asthma (outgrew it when I was 12).
- Same sex experiences -- I wasn't attracted to men, and certain masculine smells were a real turn-off. On the other hand, many men found me attractive and did make passes and tried to get things started. I was flattered because it made me feel accepted as feminine. I did try a few things with men (manual & oral) but didn't really enjoy it at all.
- Pornography Use -- As a kid, I used to love to look through the Sears catalog or Penney's Catalog, I'd look at girls fashions, juniors, and lingerie. Later, when I did start becoming aroused, I would often imagine what it would be like to be a woman being seduced by another woman. I liked looking at pretty lingerie and really hot fashions. Later, when I did start looking at adult literature, I found totally naked women uninteresting, but I did enjoy women in lingerie, because it helped create a story in my mind. Because the magazines were sealed, I'd chose items with women in sexy lingerie - then after I had purchased it, would find out that they were fetish related, with themes of bondage and/or female dominance.
- Higher masturbation frequency -- Normal for age and marital status. As a teen it was at least daily, more often if I was sick. Marriage slowed the desire, as did age. These days, a few nights a week when I'm on the road, not much at home.
- A positive attitude toward cross-dressing -- I'm transsexual, dressing was just one facet. I struggled with accepting what I was, and had an even harder time accepting that I had to hide it and pretend to be a man.
- Sexual arousal from pain -- One of those women who didn't understand my feminine side tied me up and pleasured me. Up til then, it wasn't something I would have tried to seek out. I had learned to make the best out of many situations and found that her "games" were quite exciting. Sadly, when she realized that I DID want to wear girl's clothes, she dumped me.
- Exposing my genitals to strangers -- Not at all - the last thing I want is someone seeing my "boy parts".
- Spying on others having sex -- Around 15 I'd get drunk and check out rocking cars. I was more interested in seeing what she was wearing than seeing the actual sex act. Heterosexual sex literally put me to sleep.
Sadly, there is so little that is really known about human sexuality. The problem is that there is so much diversity and so many different elements. Many studies try to prove a particular theory, but there are thousands of permutations in sexual preference, sexual identity, and variations. Trying to prove cause/effect relationships between them is nearly impossible. Nearly everyone has deviations that cause them shame, guilt, fear, and discomfort, it's what keeps prostitutes and mistresses in business.I think those scientists are the crazy ones. What do you think? (And they think that only 2.8% of the male population cross-dresses too.)
Facebook - Debbie Lawrence
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What I don't understand is the listed sexual perversions aren't fetishes. I see sadomasochism, exhibitionism, voyeurism, homosexuality listed. I was expecting leather, hair, etc. which would be in the fetish category. Inanimate objects that cause sexual arousal.
Some CDs have a fetish for certain articles of women's clothing, and some have fetishes for leather or hair, but one fetish doesn't make one prone to others IMHO.
Note: I didn't mean to include homosexuality as a perversion. It's just that it's on this list that these scientists came up with.
Last edited by Ressie; 12-15-2013 at 09:37 AM. Reason: note
"You're the only one to see the changes you take yourself through", Stevie Wonder
I'd reply, but last time I did, I quoted wrong (some how ) and got deleted.
but it went along the lines of : 4 dimensional imagination and how it feel to the wearer of ,
(put what ever you really think is hot here), say a cat suit on a hottie in latex, that was just sprayed with baby oil and is removing excess amounts, with a 3 in. camel haired brush . If you can imagine what she feels and like it ! oohh don't forget to pour some oil down inside too , and let that second skin flow across her fine soft body haired skin,
you might be a excitable human, but if you want to experience it you might be a crossdresser.
Last edited by suit; 12-15-2013 at 09:12 AM.
Personally I think the whole world is prone to fetishes and it doesn't matter how you identify. There are lots of fetish sites for the Cisgender world so it's universal as far as I'm concerned.
The study quoted was a statistical one on a sample of the population. The results showed CORRELATIONS that were statistically significant. It did not, at least in the piece quoted in the original post, mention anything about cause and/or effect.
A lot of respondents here have questioned the results of this study. Fair enough but what are your grounds? Can you show the details of the study were flawed in some way? Do you have a study that you have seen or one that you have done that contradicts this one?
I have knowledge of cross dressing based predominantly on a study of one person----myself. Interestingly, I found that the correlations mentioned in this study fitted me rather well. I am best described as a transvestic fetishist as I have a particular love of lingerie particularly slips, corsets and other lingerie. Looking at those items was and is sexually arousing. I also enjoy being a bottom in BDSM and I have had and thoroughly enjoyed relationships with men as a transvestite. I had a poor relationship with my Father who was a workaholic and absent a lot. I have enjoyed pornography from time to time even if I find most of it dull and boring. I love dressing as a woman and feeling feminine and acting feminine. It is also and very often sexually arousing.
Does this describe the rest of the cross dressing community. No of course not. But many cross dressers probably exhibit some or all of these behaviours and fetishes. I am not typical but when you think about it, even this community is not typical. It is self-selecting and there are many cross dressers, TG's and similar who have would prefer to be a part of some other community or just be by themselves.
Remember the illustrative story of someone attempting to describe an elephant when they can only see a small part of the beast. I believe that is us.
Last edited by CONSUELO; 12-15-2013 at 10:31 AM. Reason: spelling correction
Yes there are many flaws with this study,
First of all "sexual preference " is not a fetish..If you act upon it knowing full well the partner is of the same sex it's an attraction..Close to a fetish but you are contradicting the fetish it's self " feminine attraction" .. Feeling feminine ( wanting to be a girl ) is a form of "gender identity" finding an attraction to the same sex while en femme is a form of " bi sexuality" because of your "biological sex".. It has nothing to do with being a "transvestic Fetish" or having "GID"..
Many people confuse the fetish as GID but there is one major difference ,the lack of wanting to be the opposite of the biological sex you were born as..Not saying that fetish dressers or GID people are prone to be "bi sexual" neither are anymore than those who are considered "socially normal" ..The study is grossly flawed..
Though the study may fit you and as you stated " You have one person to study yourself" what you have failed to see are several conditions combined within your own study ..
Last edited by Lucy_Bella; 12-15-2013 at 11:07 AM.
I do not!! Claim to be an expert on any topic, when I post a new thread or reply on any thread my imput is strickly that of a crossdresser. Not to offend Gay people , Transexuals or any other life style, I am only commenting on one of my own.
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