Present her with a Pre-nup.... that lays out just what rights you have and what your allowed to wear and when.... and who gets all the lingerie if you split up.... that should get the discussion going....
Present her with a Pre-nup.... that lays out just what rights you have and what your allowed to wear and when.... and who gets all the lingerie if you split up.... that should get the discussion going....
Several points here. How long has it been since the divorce? How well do you know this friend from old, when she has spent 20 years out of your life? You knew her then, but are you the same person of 20 years ago?
Here's the big one, can truly give up CDing? From what I've read on here, it isn't so easy. if you can't, and she finds out later, she will be even more upset that you have taken away a chance to be settled so late in life. Another question, why is she free now? Another divorce? What was behind that? My situation was slightly different, and I knew my GF was very open minded, but the risk was still there, but I couldn't go into it hiding this from her. But that's me, think carefully....
"Normal is what you get when you average out the weirdness that everybody has." Quote from my SO
Normal is a setting on a washing machine, or another word for average.
The fact that I wear a skirt as a male should not be taken as a comment on what you do, or do not wear, or how you wear it.
I guess the background should have included "divorced since 2009", have dated several women, only three were serious. The particular vanilla was somebody I dated in 2010 but timing was wrong for both of us and she moved to another state for a job, we stayed in contact and talked quite a bit over the years. The last few weeks we discussed getting together and this past week I visited her and her family. Dinner at the parent's place, etc. All went well, just not sure I want to ruin this relationship. You all have given some good advice, and I'm thinking I need to have "the talk" with her. Probably something easy, like pics from halloween.
“They’re not women’s clothes. They’re my clothes. I bought them.” (Eddie Izzard)
Ya know what, This is an age-old story on this forum... You know deep down, if yu give up Toni, Tony is going to be miserable.
You have to tell her if you want to be happy.
Besides, she might surprise you! Sometimes a staunch "vanilla" appearance on the outside, is often a cover for a "kink monster" buried on the inside!
She does already know you to some degree so maybe this part of you won't change her opinion of you as a person.
I believe it helped in my case but we are more a good friend couple no sex involved.
She wants it to be more than that but she knows I don't and she accepts that.Yes we have had the long deep talks and she knows where I stand.
5150 Girl makes a good point too Miss Vanilla may have another side as well .
Last edited by Tracii G; 01-02-2014 at 12:15 PM.
Be honest and upfront with her. Better she know now then "discover" you later and feel deceived.
If it's meant to be then it will be.
I don't wear women's clothes, I wear MY clothes !
Don't begin a new relationship based on deception. You say she loves you, you say she is vanilla, you say she would not accept you if she knew.
How do you know? She might be attracted to you BECAUSE of your feminine aspects.
You really need to decide if you want to continue trying to keep presenting only your most masculine persona to women. If you are willing to show your feminine side, watch romances and romantic comedies, listen and share your feelings rather than trying to "fix it", and willing to share your gentle and softer nature, maybe even scratch her back around the bra line, she will begin to wonder, and even ask you.
Most women are terrified to ask us if we are CDs or TS because they don't want to threaten a fragile male ego. Some women actually seek out more effeminate women and are rejected when they suggest that their man might be feminine. Some men even become violent.
If you let her know up front, as early on as possible, you will either have a wonderful and loving relationship in which Toni is fully loved and accepted, or you can move on to meet women who actually WANT to meet a girl like Toni.
Shortly after my first wife moved out, I started going to dances and other social events as Debbie. I also told 12 women about being transgender. Pretty much I said "I'm a girl on the inside and a boy on the outside". It took about 3 months for a very small group of women to begin seeking me out. They wanted to be introduced to me BECAUSE they knew about Debbie. Even when I was out as Rex, women friends would introduce me to women who wanted to meet Debbie. I ended up in a wonderful relationship with a woman I loved for almost 2 years.
A few months after that one ended, I met another woman and we were together for 15 years. She didn't want to get married, but she loved Debbie. In fact, she loved Debbie and was less fond of Rex. Eventually we ended that relationship as well.
Eventually, I started thinking I wanted to get married again, so I put an ad in a few personal sites including Match.com. About a thousand women viewed my profile. about a dozen showed interest, and 6 resulted in dates. One of them turned out to be a great catch, and we ended up getting married. I might have gotten even more positives if my cover picture had been of Debbie, but I made it one of the extra pictures instead. Women would see an average looking man, and if they found HIM attractive, they would be less interested in HER. If I had gone the other way, putting the profile in "Men looking for women" with Debbie on the profile, there would have been more bisexual women who would have jumped at the chance to meet someone like me, and would have been reassured by the pictures of Rex that I was still male.
Consider taking a few subtle steps to show more of your feminine side with women you are dating. Have both of your ears pierced and wear CZ studs. Have your nails manicured and wear a near natural nail polish. Men might notice but won't say anything. Women will notice and will compliment you, to see how you react. If you thank them graciously and compliment them, they will often show more interest, maybe not for themselves, but perhaps they know another man like you, or even better, a woman who is looking for a man like you.
Many women actually WANT a more feminine man. They want someone who is softer, gentle, listens well, isn't afraid to share their feelings, doesn't have a fragile male ego, and will let them take charge - where they want to have the feeling of more control. This may be just in the bedroom, or perhaps even in the area of social calendar, finances, and security. In effect, they want many of the perks and privileges of being the "Man" in the relationship. At the same time, they want the stability and social acceptability of a heterosexual relationship.
Keep in mind that when I put out my ad, I was heavy (270 lbs), older (49), and had a nice income but by no means rich.
I was also more flexible about the women. I had been doing this long enough to realize that I could be much happier with a woman who was a bit heavier, maybe not as feminine, but really enjoyed Debbie, than I would be with a woman who looked and dressed the way Debbie wanted to look and dress, but didn't like Debbie and wouldn't go out with Debbie because Debbie had better legs.
Don't continue to build a relationship based on deception and secrecy. If she runs for the hills, she probably could never truly love you. Toni is part of who you are. She may not be your "True self" like with a transsexual, but she is still a dear and cherished part of who you are. If she can't love Toni it would be a risky relationship anyway. DADT is what couples do when the woman can't accept her husband for who he truly is. The girl is in there, screaming to come out and play, but the wife wants to keep her locked in a closet, hidden away from the world, hoping that she will die.
Do you want Toni to die? Do you want to stop cross-dressing forever? Do you want to stop something that was so important to you even after 20 years she came back to life, demanding to be given life again?
You probably should see a counselor to try and figure out how much is Toni and how much is Tony. There is a whole spectrum on the transgender scale, from the fetishist who only wants to wear specific items and only for sexual stimulation to the type 6 transsexual who becomes self destructive, even suicidal when forced to conform to birth gender. You fit somewhere in the middle, and may shift to a higher level now that you no longer have the constraints of a spouse who could never truly love the real you.
If the relationship dies when you bring up the cross-dressing, it was dead before it started, and you just found out. Would you lie to a woman about your profession? Your assets? Your social status? Would you tell her you were the CEO of a $billion company when you were actually a respected professional with a modest income?
Being deceptive in the early stages of a relationship is normal, but too much distortion doesn't last long. She might wear the short skirts and heels for a few weeks, but if she is uncomfortable in them, you will be able to see it as you reach the end of the date and she seems to hobble back to the car and kicks them off the second she gets seated in the car. You will see it when you go shopping together and she keeps choosing the comfortable clothes instead of the flirty and sexy ones.
If you take her shopping for something pretty and she holds an item up to you, make sure you give her a really big smile. If she smiles back, you know you have the beginning of something wonderful. It the idea doesn't even occur to her, you are either being too deceptive or she doesn't want to acknowledge your feminine side.
Facebook - Debbie Lawrence
Web - [URL="http://www.debbieballard.org"]DebbieBallard.org{/URL]
See also:
Open4Success
In my opinion, if you start compromising yourself before you start the relationship, you will end up regretting it later when you are deep into the relationship. I would not keep any secrets that may, later in the relationship, come out. Maybe what I am saying is would you rather be sort of happy alone or miserable with her?
I would like a partner but I am at he point in my life that I am the one I know I will be living with forever. While I would do what I could to please her (or him) doing so at the expense of my happiness is no longer an option. I had two wonderful relationships with two wonderful women, and yes we compromised on some things (the last compromised a lot FOR me and I regret she had to do that), but both allowed me to be "me". No major changes in who I was.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
Just put on your big girl panties and "man" up you'll feel better and know where you stand.......................Debra
You'll never know if she could go for it if you don't try. If you guys are already being physically intimate then now would be a good time to mention it casually. I wouldn't show her pictures unless asked or go to far into details about it until she is ready. If your heart is starting to think she is the one then now is the time to disclose it before it gets too difficult to do later and the stakes are too high. She already knows you well as a person, make sure she understands that this is just a part of what makes you who you are and that it will always be at least a small part of you.
I told my partner when I knew that I liked her enough that I wanted to see if we could be intimate emotionally and physically. If she is into you then she will want to know all of you, and you know all of her. She will probably appreciate a partner that is sincere, honest, and emotionally available because she knows all of you.
My fiancee had no idea of the difference between a crossdresser, a transsexual, and a gay man three years ago and I would have described her as fairly vanilla at the time too. Now she is my biggest supporter and our relationship is better than I thought was even possible. Neither one of us is the bdsm type, but there is nothing vanilla about our sex life and it really works well for both of us.
Try not to assume that this will end the relationship, you don't want her picking up that vibe and thinking that you're trying to run her off. I think it was about a month or maybe two after I told my SO that we had our first trip together as two women. If she is really into you she will want to accept this if that is what it takes to have you with her. Good luck!
"In our lives, change is unavoidable, loss is unavoidable. In the adaptability and ease with which we experience change, lies our happiness and freedom."
"My actual gender identity emerged as I healed from the scars of childhood not because of those scars" - Kelly J
I'd recommend listening/reading to Dan Savage (thestranger.com) if you haven't. He's addressed this a few times. My experience is that in the early days of a relationship, people are open and ready about their new boyfriend/girlfriend. This isn't a first date topic, but it can't wait a year either. For me, once we got physical, and started talking about sex, I shared that I LOVED the feelings of stockings. And that I'd always dreamed of stocking on stocking sex - that night became my first time for that.
If she's not open to that, you can do better.
I'm in full agreement with Alexis, you need to tell her right away. You owe it to yourself and her.
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