Safe While In Public Enfemme?

[Stephanie]

I was wondering, for those of you who go out regularly while en femme, what have your experiences been like in terms of safety? Have any of you felt threatened by anybody with bodily harm or arrest because somebody recognized you as a man dressed as a woman? How dangerous is it really to be out in public en femme? Personally, I haven't gone out in public en femme much and my outings so far have been fairly short in duration so I don't really have much in terms of experience but I can't recall ever feeling like I was in any real danger even though I'm sure some people probably figured out that I wasn't a real woman. I would like to go out in public en femme more often or for longer periods of time but I have been warned by some people that I would likely be putting myself (and anybody who accompanies me) at serious risk of bodily harm or arrest. I realize that there are some places I would NOT want to go while en femme like bars (which I don't go to anyway) and I figure that it probably would not be very safe to go out at night. Also, I know that some women are extremely sensitive about the idea of us visiting their restrooms. However, I think that MOST of the places I do like to go such as bookstores (i.e. Borders), movie theaters, the mall, restaurants, etc. are places where I think that the risk of being harmed or arrested in the event that somebody "clocked" me as a crossdresser (and I'm almost certain at least SOMEBODY would at some point) would be greatly minimized. I know that we are all always at SOME risk of being harmed, arrested, etc. by some "phobic" individuals because of our unique interests but I do not see myself as being in the kind of mortal danger that some people suggest that I might be in by going out in public en femme. After all, EVERYBODY (crossdressers AND non-crossdressers alike) is at at SOME theoretical risk of harm every day. What does everybody else think? Am I being overconfident/foolishly naive about the risks of going out in public en femme? I haven't heard many horror stories about going out in public en femme on any of the boards I've been to although I'm sure that they do exist. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Sharon]

I've been out many times, almost daily since Spring as a matter of fact, and have had just one bad experience. Shopping has never been a problem at all, and the bookstore (Borders, by the way) I frequent has been most comfortable for me and I sometimes just like to curl up in one of their chairs and relax with a cup of coffee and magazine.

Personally, I prefer shopping when there are lots of people in a store as I feel less noticed. I also dress casually whenever I go out, so my attire doesn't tend to attract any unwanted attention.

I'm not much of a bar/club person, and have no experience to share in this regard, not that I don't want to give it a try someday.

Basically, keep your eyes open and behave normally, and chances are you will be okay. Stay away from secluded areas, those types of places you wouldn't want your SO or mother to go to.

[Nikki Dee]

Hi. Hun...sound advice from Sharon...be aware...and stay away from the areas you would stay away from even if you were not en femme.!!...and SMILE.!...I've always found that helps so much...people respond so well to a smile...and don't question.!..have fun and enjoy.
Love Nikki. xx

[Fallen Angel]

I go out all the time.research is the key!! There are many places on the internet that are cd freindly. Bars, nite clubs, resteraunts, motels ,hotels,ect. If in dought go in drab for a first outing and scout things out see how they are if your happy with the invirement dress and go back out there.your always going to get a negitive one in a crowd but not as often as you think.Dressing a little low key as sharon pointed out does help with blending if your planning a trip to a mall or just a small outing.Frame of mind is the most importaint key and trying to find cd freindly places helps build confidence!! have fun be your self and the rest follows xxx

[renee k]

I've been out alot as well. I live by the philosophy, If it looks like a duck, walks like duck, quacks like duck, it's a duck. Which has been expounded a number of times on this forum. I dress my age, dress like other women would in the venue I'm going to. And also smile back when looked at. As far as restrooms go. I go in do my business, wash my hands and check my makeup and leave. End of story! As for bars or clubs. Other than TG clubs, I go to places that have a crowd around my age, and have been treated like any other woman. I've also taken in art museums, plays, along with going to malls and shopping. And have always been treated as a lady. I guess the bottom line is, if you go looking for trouble you will find it. So don't invite trouble.
My recommendation to you is. Get out there and enjoy yourself and don't get wrapped around the axle about what might happen. If you present yourself as a lady and act like a lady, you'll be treated like a lady.


Huggs, Renee

[kathy gg]

ALthough i am not a cd, i wanted to throw in my. 02 as well. I think it shows alot of smarts that you are wanting to have this conversation with others.

My husband and I have gone out many times {he started going out in 96' and me with him in 99) and the msot 'negative' thing I have ever heard was someone yell out of a car as we walked down the street 'dykes'. We also had one instance of going down an escalator in a rather crowded mall and a group of young men yelled "that is a man'. Strangely enough there were groups of women in front and behind us and I don't think anyone realized it was my husband the men were referring to, so all the women gave the guys some evil looks.

That is about the worst. Also, everyone has given great advice abotu scoping places out, doing what you need to do in a washroom and then leaving asap, and being aware of your surroundings.

I would only add to all this: take a cell phone. Maybe keep a change of clothing in yoru car if you are really nervous about getting 'outed' and your car happens to break down. Also, keep in mind the 'nicer' and more upscale the location you go out in the less chance of someone being rude. Most nicer malls and restaraunts figure that if youhave enough money to shop or eat there they can deal with eccentrities.

good luck!

[sherri]

You should listen to Sharon and Angel. They are veterans and know of what they speak.

Common sense is the order of the day. If your idea of a good time does not include confrontation, I'd avoid the following:

• leather bars
• biker bars
• country and western bars
• latino bars
• NASCAR races
• rodeos
• packs of teenagers
• gang turfs
• red light districts
• street corner evangelists
• alleys
• streets with no lights
• parking garages
• subways
• parking a long way from your destination
• getting in a car with someone you don't know very well
• meeting someone for the first time in a private place
• driving drunk
• breaking traffic laws

When in doubt about a place you want to go, call ahead. I do this with a new restaurant, club or some retail stores especially. I just tell them up front I'm a male crossdresser and ask if they're cool with that.

Always carry the following:

• identification
• money
• cell phone
• make sure you have your keys
• have a change of clothes in your car

Some pepper spray or something is a good idea, but I never have carried anything like that.

[CharleneCD]

As for being safe when going out there is not really anything I can add. I will just restate that you need to avoid places where you know problems are more likely. Sherri's list is a good guide.

As for arrest, Just dont do anything like drive drunk, rob someone, commit Murder..... Crossdressing is not a crime, so as long as you obey the law while out doing it, there should be no problem. As for using the womens restroom it gets more complicated. As was seen in Texas after the hurricane, using the womens facilities after being told not to, can get you arrested. If you ared told not to use them, ask the management what they intend to do to ensure your safety while using the mens restroom. If they dont give you a good answer take your business elsewhere. The safest way to deal with bathrooms is to have a GG with you. It would be hard to calll you a perv if your wife or girlfriend is there to defend you.

[MsJanessa]

I've been out plenty of times while dressed and have never been physically harrassed or threatened---I have been confronted once---and there have been a couple of occasions where guys came on to Me in a sexual way which I did not welcome(from that particular guy) both times a firm "no" did the trick. The times where those things happened involve gay bars and although I didn't welcome the advance, at no time did I feel afraid or physically threatened---the time I was confronted I was walking down a street late one evening in a seedy neighbor hood(by day its ok---at night street people seem to take it over) and a guy walking with his girlfriend who was rather overweight passed Me and said in a loud voice---"Hey--youre a guy!" at which point My girlfreind turned around and shouted at him---Maybe she is, but at least she's not fat and ugly" He slunk away and I smiled to Myself. I've never had a problem at stores and malls or restaurants---Maine is a remarkedly tolerant place---particularly Portland---My advice is to do what most GGs do---BE CAREFUL--Avoid bad neighbor hoods, crowds of teeneage boys(the ones most liklky to cause a problem), try to steer clear of situations where you might be assaulted---dimly lit streets, alleys etc, violent lowlife types of bars etc---if you want to go out to the clubs My suggestion is gay bars particularly on drag nights---you will blend right in---don't drink too much if at all, act like a lady and things should be fine---if you act like a drunken *****, you will probably be treated like one---also you can be like Me--I carry pepper spray in My purse---I've never had to use it but it is comforting to know its there---Janessa

[Rachel_740]

have a change of clothes in your car

Forgive me for being difficult, but as I have no male clothing and wouldn't wear it if I had, what's the point of a change of clothes

Anne

[Butterfly Bill]

Think: would you recommend that a GG go there alone? Do you think a GG would feel comfortable there? If the answer is no, then don't go yourself.

Another principle I follow is: Don't go where there are drunks and darkness. I don't go into the kind of bars where the managemant feels it needs to hire bouncers, and I don't go on the streets outside of them if it is after dark.

Sometimes I have young men in cars passing by yell "faggot" at me, or other such words, thru car windows, and I just act like I don't even hear them. If they taunt a second or third time, I just give them a grin. On the street, from other people walking on the same street, I think the worst I have gotten is when one of a group of fraternity boys came up to me, put his hand behind his back, and said, "How's my HAIR?"

Probably the worst experience I have had was when I thought I was going to visit the Exploratorium (an interactive science museum) in Oklahoma City at the time there were 30 empty school busses with "Enid I.S.D." on them in the parking lot. The place was full of elementary school kids, some with cameras, some asking me if I was gay and lots of others doing a lot of pointing. I lasted about two and a half hours cuz even I have my limits.

I go into the men's room, and go into one to the stalls to pee. I take clothes over to the men's dressing room to try them on. I don't dress like I want someone in a passing car to stop and ask me if I do tricks; I wear nothing that is more outrageous than what the women would be wearing in the place I'm going to, and I don't do things that they wouldn't do. I keep my street smarts up no matter what I am wearing, and don't do stuff to provoke people.

[Stephanie Brooks]

Stephanie,

There's lots of good advice that already been posted in this thread! Hopefully my insights will add a little more to what's here.

I go out roughly once a month and live by a few principles.

Dress to pass, dress to blend into the crowd.

It's my security. If I look a bit bland, then I reduce my personal risk by not drawing attention to myself. I'll never look like a fashion model. Yet if I can look into a mirror and see something that finally looks right - feminine - then I'm happy.

Go to safe places.

If you're not sure if an area is safe, either check it out beforehand or don't go there. I'm pretty comfortable out in the northern Virginia area, the suburbs of Washington, DC. However, I won't go into DC en femme. I barely go to DC in drab without a, uh, "sharp" friend, risks of doing that notwithstanding.

Avoid alcohol.

I save a bottle of bubbly for afterwards. While out however, I don't go to places where alcohol is being heavily consumed. I also don't usually drink alcohol while out en femme. I want to stay alert to my surroundings, and want to avoid drunks.

Expect to be read.

You're physically a guy. Whether you're read from your hands, voice, head, face, hips, or whatever doesn't much matter. If you're out en femme, you are going to be read. Mostly it doesn't matter if you're in a decent area.

Go out to have fun!

I'm just going out, and happen to be en femme. It's no big deal. At least that's what I try to tell myself. ^_^ Have a good attitude, and you'll do well.

Be aware.

I've been out on and off over the last 14 years, and have never encountered any problems. Mostly I avoid dangerous situations, and will walk away from a situation without hesitation if I sense something isn't right. If I'm not up for going out, I'll stop, even at the last minute before leaving.

You're right that life is dangerous anyway. There are places I won't go in drab. The places I consider to be safe do not afford me the luxury of complacence; I am always on my guard. Yet some places are clearly safer than others. The places I go en femme are places that, as Butterfly Bill so aptly said, are places you'd recommend a GG to go alone.

Don't bring others who are uncomfortable with Stephanie.

I generally don't go out with others. For me to go with a GG buddy, she'd need to be very comfortable with Stephanie. If the GG is nervous, it will show to others and draw attention to the two of you. For me to go with a GM, he'd also need to be very comfortable with Stephanie, and would need to be aware that there's a potential gay bashing risk. We'd strategize beforehand as to what we'd do.

Some folks have no troubles! Marla and Angel go out and have lots of fun! Julie often gets together with non-TG folks who are comfortable with her. Folks like Amelie are en femme all of the time, and she goes out with her boyfriend, natural as anyone.



Well, I guess that covers it for me. Again lots of others have excellent advice, and much of what I've said echoes others' thoughts. Hope this helps!!!!!!!

[Rachel Morley]

Have any of you felt threatened by anybody with bodily harm or arrest because somebody recognized you as a man dressed as a woman?

Short answer: no.

I can honestly say that I have never felt uncomfortable or threatened in any way. Admittedly I do always go out with Marla, and I somehow feel this gives me more credibility and also some sort of "protective bubble" around me She does most of the talking so this means I blend in even more than I otherwise would.

I totally agree with pretty much everything that everyone else has said. It's all good advice, particularly about going to nicer more up market places during daylight hours. So no, I don't find it a probem at all....actually, come to think of it, I haven't even had any bad comments as an obvious feminized male in public either.

In the words of Bob Marley: "don't worry 'bout a thing, every little thing is gonna be alright"

[Denise01]

I have had no problems being out shopping en-femme,, however Like Sharion, I pick my time and place.

I too tend to prefer shopping malls that are a bit busy, there people are hurraying around in their own little world not paying attention to others.
One thing I have found, is dress for the occassion, and also the weather.
Up here in the Northern cold climates this time of the year, in malls you will see most of the girls will wear slacks, because of the cold weather. Dress to suit the crowd you will be in, be confident, and act like you should be there.

Last week, i was in a major shopping mall for over 3 hours. Being cool outside, i wore slacks and fitted right in. think I only saw one girl in a skirt, and it was very possible she was on her way home from work, and stopped to shop.

I did try on and buy 3 skirts in 2 different stores, and was treated non other than a lady out shopping

Enjoy

Denise

[ReginaK]

Always carry the following:

• identification
• money
• cell phone
• make sure you have your keys
• have a change of clothes in your car

Some pepper spray or something is a good idea, but I never have carried anything like that.

I'd also like to add to your "always carry list" drab clothes and something for removing makeup. If you have to make a change into drab, might as well take the makeup off as well.

[ReginaK]

Forgive me for being difficult, but as I have no male clothing and wouldn't wear it if I had, what's the point of a change of clothes

Anne

I learned a lesson from a friend of mine: Always carry a pair of tennis shoes and jeans in your car. It's much easier to change a tire in those than in a skirt, hose, and heels.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I think Stephanie's advice pretty much summed it up.

I've never had any problems, although I did have a scare once. I was walking back to my car from a club in one of the dodgier areas of SF. A guy who walked past me ended up circling around and walking back toward me. Fortunately, I got in my car before he got close, and he could've turned around for entirely innocent reasons, but it was just a reminder that when out en femme you need to use the same caution that a GG would.

But other than that I've never really had any problems. I've acted like I deserve respect and I usually get it. Yeah, I've had a some stares and some giggles, but that was their problem, not mine.

I've always taken a "boy bag" along in the trunk -- change of close, make-up remover, etc. -- you never know when your car might break down.

Restrooms are a difficult subject. Generally the concensus is that it's better to be slapped than beat up. In other words, women's restrooms are safer -- although some GGs do get freaked out. So it's best to get in, do you business, wash your hands and get out. Don't linger. If someone has a problem, it's probably best to just tell them your really needed to pee and leave immediately. There are more and more "family restrooms," which are usually a single stall, so those are your best bet if one's available.

As others have mentioned it's actually easier to blend in while you're in a busy area. People are usually distracted and not paying a lot of attention. And it does help to wear pants, since that's what the vast majority of GGs wear.

BTW, the first couple times you go out, you'll probably be nervous and people pick up on that, which causes you to be read more often. The good news is that as you get more time out, you start relaxing and that in turn causes you to get read less.

Other than that, it's a big world, enjoy it!

[Jan W]

Forgive me for being difficult, but as I have no male clothing and wouldn't wear it if I had, what's the point of a change of clothes

Anne

This would be fine if you are out to all that matter. Most of us do our en femme socialising with as little people who know us knowing of our activities the better. If your life would become difficult because certain people found out about your CDing then it is important to have an escape bag in the car.

I carry one inside my car and as other girls have prudently pointed out it also contains polish and makeup remover.

I suppose Anne may argue that if we are ashamed or afraid to be caught dressed then we should not be going out at all but I would say that I did not ask for this and why not lessen the chance of hurting ourselves or loved ones by carrying such a simple solution to a potential problem?

I have a phrase for driving carefully and minimising the chance of trouble. "Drive like you are wearing a dress'


Jan

[Merinda]

I have a phrase for driving carefully and minimising the chance of trouble. "Drive like you are wearing a dress'
Jan

I entered a roundabout last year thinking that the oncomming car was going straight , the women suddenly indicated after she decided to turn (whilst in the middle of the roundabout) and we almost collided.
She blew her horn and started yelling , I blew my stack and yelled abuse back to her about indicating too late.
OOOOPPPSS!! I should drive like I'M wearing a dress , BECAUSE I WAS !!
A schooldress to be precise.
I wonder what she thought of a schoolgirl yelling at her in a loud mans voice?
I didn't hang around to find out.

[Lisa Maren]

Hi everyone

I've only been out briefly once or twice and there was one thing I had in place that I haven't seen mentioned here yet. I knew, before going out, exactly what sort of crimes do and do not occur in the area. I knew that there haven't been any assaults here in the last year plus (even at night) so that was another type of getting knowledge in advance to avoid danger. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not naive. There's always still the risk, and I do keep that clearly in mind. The point is only that I knew ahead of time that the risk was relatively low as opposed to going out having no idea how much risk there is).

The other thing I wanted to mention that I haven't seen is that, in general, I think personal security rules are different for GGs than for GMs. Specifically, GGs are not as safe alone or at night as GMs since it's mostly GGs that are the victims of various types of assault. So, even if you pass completely, you still can't ever let yourself think, "I'd be safe here in boy mode so I'm probably just as safe in girl mode." That may not the case. After all, if the bad guy thinks you're a woman, he might be more likely to attempt an attack.

Hugs,
Lisa

[Phoebe Reece]

I get out and about as Phoebe about 3 or 4 times a month. I have been to shopping malls, museums, universities, restaurants, bars, and other places both in the daytime and at night. I've never had what I would consider a bad experience even though I have been read more times than I can count. The basic rule is to expect to be treated as a lady if you are dressed as one. And that includes what treatment to expect in dimly lit deserted parking lots and other questionable places. You should avoid the same places that your wife, girlfriend, or sister would avoid. If you really want to go to some bar or nightspot where you don't know the safety of your surroundings, go with a friend or two. There is safety in numbers. The bad guys might go after a lone woman, but they may think twice before attacking a group of six foot tall 200+ pound crossdressers.

[kristytv]

i dont usually go out dressed, becasue of the work it takes me to look presentable to myself, i go to areas that i know i wonthave a problem , when i do, has anyone here actually got pulled over while enfemme?

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

The issue came up on another forum and someone pointed out that while there's no definitive statistics on violence against folks on the TG spectrum, but most of the stories about TG people being attacked concerned: people who didn't adequately disclose their transgender status before a sexual encounter; prostitutes; and/or stigmatized racial minorities.

While obviously none of those people "deserved it," and we should work to help end that sort of violence, it does put it into perspective.

As far as being pulled over en femme, there's been a couple threads on this in the past. While there's obviously the occasional bad cop out there, the vast majority have been educated on dealing with "minorities" and are utterly professional in their dealings with CDs based on the stories shared by those who've been stopped.

[paulaN]

I have been out a few times and never had any trouble. three times in portland ,Maine and once in vegas. never have I had so much fun.

[BeckyCath]

I've been out for just over 12 months, and i am highly aware of my situations... common sense things like...

Park your car under a street lamp, and have your keys easily accesable in your hand bag or in your hand to make it easy to get into your car on your return.

Walk with your head up and shoulders back, and use eye contact and smiles as your "weapons" to difuse situations...

If you don't feel safe, don't carry on, look for a way out as soon as possible.

I carry a can of body spray in my handbag to use as "mace" if i get in a scrape, but it's more for my peace of mind than anything else.

I am always aware of what's going on around me, and if i can see "gangs" of youths i try to avoid them, it's just not worth the agro...

But, whatever you do, don't let the fear put you off, get out and don't worry... It rarely happens in real life....

Rebecca