Cliques annoy me!

[Jenniferx]

Cliques- really annoy me, so here's my rant about something that's been bothering me for a long time now. If I offend, I'm sorry but maybe this will start some meaningful discussion and maybe some people will see themselves and realize something from this. Maybe I was naïve thinking that just because we're all in somewhat the same boat and have the same beginnings in our lives that we would all be accepting and understanding of one another, but it just amazes me how many different hierarchies we as trans-people have formed.

I see these cliques in almost everything related to being a CD- maybe this is the irony of wanting to be like a girl, girls can be pretty mean (ha-ha).
So I go on Flickr, post my pictures, comment on other pretty girls pictures hoping that these pretty girls will stop by my humble page and perhaps leave a simple "nice". No I get comments from guys with hairy bodies in pantyhose, or guys jerking off, all types of stalkers, but the pretty gurls I admire, and gush so profusely to, ignore me. The pretty stay with the pretty I guess and I don't fit in that group. I've seen this behavior in myself at times and I don't like it, I try not to judge too much (other than the hairy thing or not trying).

I work up the nerve eventually to go out the club- cliques again, only even more so. This one group at the club I go to cracks me up- Butch gurls who put no effort into being girly (picture Norman Bates wearing his dead mothers dresses-LOL (oh don't write about this it's a joke..but kind of true), they walk and talk like men but just wearing a dress, and they look down on me like I'm some sissy fag they'd just as soon ignore. Then there's the militant types-they don't understand why you aren't like them, you need to come out of the closet, be full-time for the good of the cause. The club is an odd place for a newbie going out for the first time- the passable stay with the passable, the pretty hang out with the pretty, and the wallflowers sit on the sidelines hoping someone will say hi and maybe make a friend. I know we're all different, I wasn't expecting to learn some secret handshake and we'd all be laughing together, but I wasn't expecting the high school cliques, the standoffishness.

Now granted I live in the gritty upper Midwest and were not known for being generally warm and caring people (I do live in the murder capital after all) but we need to be a little nicer to each other, we are unique in this world, maybe more so than any other group of people in the world. So have your cliques if you must, but be gracious and smile and say hi, be nicer. I'll try too.
Love, Jennifer

[Jaylyn]

Hello Jenniferx from Texas. You and I have something's i. Common we both have blond wigs and I love your red lipstick. You are a very pretty gal and although you are a long way from Texas I am gonna send you a friends request. I'm not a pervert just an old guy that enjoys the dressing. I don't understand why cliques would exists especially if we are all walking in heels....

[Deedee Skyblue]

I don't go out, Jennifer, but I am often stunned by the insistence here (not from everyone!) that some of us are doing "it" wrong -whatever "it" may be. We're all here because we're "different". Most of us are not here because we want to change to meet someone else's standard, most of us, I think, want to be accepted as what we are the way we are, including our differences.

Deedee

[Katey888]

Jennifer, (smile) Hi

I think you've just described people in general - the human animal has an amazing range for being inhuman towards others, why should we as a group prove to be an exception? I agree it is a shame - it certainly doesn't make me want to go and participate at any local club (not likely anyway...) but it's just a reflection of life's rich tapestry...

I like your message - and I love the Norman Bates metaphor (but I fear that may not have won you any new friends in that clique...) And it's only a small thing, but I try to acknowledge new folk joining and introducing themselves here, because it's the polite and welcoming thing to do - seems like that could do with being more prevalent in the real world too.

And I don't see why you don't fit with the pretty bunch, Jennifer, other than you're new and pretty and folk are b*tchy... You can be in my One Girl Gang any day...!

Katey x

[Kristy 56]

Jenn, you're gorgeous in your pictures,so i'm going to assume that in real time even more so. I'm going to venture a guess that some of what you experience is petty jealousies. Just my 2 cents.

[cdmorganashley]

i can't really comment on the in-person cliques as i've only been to a gay club while dressed totally as a male (there were trans-girls there, but it wasn't specifically a CD club), but as to my experience on this site, and at least one other site, i have not experienced the division as you have... i have felt included by a range of CDs of various levels of attractiveness (in my judgment) and i really don't recall feeling ignored by anyone i have made an attempt to interact with, but i think my overall assessment would be that CDs are individuals like any other cross-section of people and some are warmer and colder, but i think it is more about personality than a result of their looks... this may be different in person, but i suppose if someone doesn't want to be nice to me because i am not pretty enough then they are not really someone i would like being around anyway...

i would expect to feel that the regulars are more friendly with each other than with me upon first going somewhere or upon first joining a new website, but i don't think this is particular to CDs...

i'm would also like to comment that in your seeking the approval of "the pretty ones" it seems you might be falling into the very problem you are having a problem with, and i think you are being very judgmental of the "butch" and other groups you describe at the club... i mean not all CDs are going to fit your image of what a CD should be and maybe some of those people would be someone you would find is a great friend to be made... also, unless you have spoken with each individual in one of these "cliques" its not fair to say they all believe one thing or another... i mean i see where you are coming from, but what you perceive to be the way the "butch" girls are looking down on you may not be the case at all unless you have been told this explicitly or had some kind of interaction with them which made their feelings clear (such as they dumped a beer on you or something?)...

anyway, maybe this club just isn't the right fit for you and there is another CD club with a different mix of people that you would like better, but i encourage you to look for CD friends and not pretty CD friends or whatever, and i wouldn't expect any group of people to go out of their way to draw you in, but i think if you put yourself out there and keep an open mind you will find the response you are looking for, and if someone is standoffish try someone else, and don't let it get you down--i mean the gurls i have met on here are nice and many are out there so you are bound to find a few if you keep looking =)

[sweetshauna]

You're pretty enuff to fit with any group in my opinion.
wish I could pull this off as well as you do. don't let the *******s get you down. lol

[Anna H]

Yep, i found out about cliques too. I've only been posting anywhere for
just a few months.

Everyone here has been Very Nice to me so far, and I feel 'protected'
from the riff-raff I've seen at a few places.

Flickr seems to be as close to an internet train wreck as anything
I've seen yet. My aol dial-up in 1997 ran 10x faster. There are some
Very Nice girls there that walked me through avoiding the crudeness
you described. But still, it's very hard to deal with the software
programming that Flickr has.

I like it here Very much and I hope I can be liked as well!

Kate ♥

[Stevie]

The extremes you are talking about are right on. Very hard to be yourself without being judged. They all have their own idea and if you don't agree with it then you don't belong. Very high school. Thought it was only me but I see you see this too. I told someone once that I went to Royal Oak and was labeled so fast I had to rethink our whole conversation.

[Stephanie Julianna]

Don't beat yourself up. Cliques have been around since the first cave women with less body hair started to hang out together making fun of their hairier contemporaries. In the 80's and 90's there were clubs in NYC for the Andre Pejecs of that generation and the other clubs for the "every girls" that I hung out with. I don't see that changing any time soon. As far as your not getting support when you post in other places just remember that there are a lot of girls here, I'm one, that are not very good at surfing the net and are even afraid to sign on to many things that might stay on the computer where SOs and families might see where we are going. It took me 6 tries just to get signed in here. Others have hacked the Pentagon faster. So I feel safe here and don't need to get pages of someone's image to know that I like them or their look. You and I are friends here and I know I have told you how I admire your look. Never think that our silence in other places is lack of support. We are just net-impaired. We love you. On a final note. Those hairy jerks that surf our world have their own issues so just say a prayer for them. They have their own issues.

[UNDERDRESSER]

It's life. I am very grateful that my current workplace is remarkably free of cliques for the most part. (Of course, the one department I really want to join is run by the cliquiest clique master ever! But I digress)

I think part of what you are seeing, is caused by people not understanding quite, what they are doing. They can't get a grasp of where their drives and urges are coming from, they have limited ability to discuss it with someone outside the group they ended up in, so they tend to reinforce the "group mind"

If some in your group express negative reactions to someone or something, the tendency is to close ranks against that.

[Kate Simmons]

Hi Jennifer, I think I told you before you are very pretty. If not I am now. You know you are right and the "cause" is only as good as the people in it and that goodness comes from the heart and soul, not how we happen to look appearance wise. I wish we lived closer Hon as we would go out and have a blast having a good time. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. Be well my friend.

[Beth Wilde]

One of the weirdest things, cliques, especially in our world. There are groups out there who want acceptance in the "normal" (note the ironic quotes) world and yet they judge others in their situation for being "different"! It's really rather sad......

Follow the Beth guidelines:

Those who feel the need to judge you are not fit or qualified to judge you!

If you feel good and aren't breaking the law or hurting someone then who gives a damn what others think!

Don't seek approval from others, seek it from yourself!

Oh, and do talk to the wallflowers, they can be the nicest of people

[PretzelGirl]

I would take it as part of the natural process of figuring out who I want to hang out with, in person or virtually. If they want one sided praise, want to accumulate friends without acknowledging me, or anything that makes it feel like less than a friendship, then they have done me a favor by letting me know to move on. It isn't the quantity of friends, but the quality. And once you let that be the yardstick, you will find a lot of quality friends just because there are a lot of good people out there.

[Beverley Sims]

I think it is more pack mentality than cliques.

[Marcelle]

Cliques . . . they are everywhere and "annoying" you bet. The thing I have learned about cliques is that they tend to attract people who want a sense of self importance or validation in their life . . . "We are better than they are". The trick is not to let it bother you because they are the ones with the insecurity to not be able to be just themselves. Belonging to a group of like minded people is fine so long as it is not about lording it over others and passing judgment on those who do not conform. I got into an on line argument with a TS gal in our support group because in her opinion we (CDers) who only dress occasionally should really just stay home because we are not serious enough about being women and if you don't pass well, then you are just an embarrassment to all TG people. Now I am sure she has a lot of like minded people who agree with her and that is their thing but when you get hurtful and mean then it is not on.

Sweetie, you are stunning and should have nothing to worry about, be yourself and just enjoy the world as Jennifer wherever you go and let the cliques hang by the water fountain "legends in their own minds".

[Tracii G]

You look fabulous and I agree lots of that going on these days on places like Flickr.
Just don't let it get to you and be yourself.
I seem to attract middle aged middle Eastern men. and yep they are quite hairy Ewwwww.

[Sarah Marie]

Hi Jennifer! I'm still meeting girls here. Sorry you're feeling badly. Your picture is very beautiful!
Hugs,
Sarah

[adrienner99]

Jennifer--First, you look lovely and feminine to me. Love your lipstick! I think your post is right on. But not new. I have sent comments to beyond gorgeous CDs on the web, too--with no response. Even here, where we can at least express ourselves and get some kind of response, I have found it hard to really connect with anyone who is really compatible for friendship. Don't get me wrong...I LOVE this site. But yes, it is very hard I think for a CD to step through the maze of communities in our universe. Yes, even CDs can tbe houghtless...tho I have seen the opposite as well. Once in a gay bar I saw an absolute knockout CD go up to another who had done her best but still just looked like a man in a dress. The beauty grabbed the other CD by the hand and dragged her out on the dance floor. I am sure the one girl was scared, but I think it made her happy to get out there, too....

[Rogina B]

Follow the Beth guidelines:

Those who feel the need to judge you are not fit or qualified to judge you!

If you feel good and aren't breaking the law or hurting someone then who gives a damn what others think!

Don't seek approval from others, seek it from yourself!

Oh, and do talk to the wallflowers, they can be the nicest of people

I prefer the mainstream to the gay clubs. Identity issues abound at those clubs and they are very segregating.In the mainstream places,those that accept us can choose to include us or not..Those that choose inclusion become friends. I'll take my social chances in that world.

[Melissa in SE Tn]

Hitting close to this forum home , I too feel Adrienne's frustration in the reserved response of fellow cders who I applaud & encourage . I don't know why there are those who feel it difficult to accept & acknowledge friendship, compliments , encouragement, etc. I do know that as men we are attracted to our perception of beauty. Those on this forum that post avatars, particularly attractive, seem to have a greater audience while we who cannot post avatars, for private reasons, seem to have our voices muffled over. Is there a clique in this forum as to who we respond to & communicate with? Only some introspection can honestly answer this question.

[Lorileah]

wanna be part of the "popular" girls at the club??? Try this. "Hi I am Jennifer. I am sort of new here. You are???"

The only good thing my ex taught me was "This is YOUR house, you need to make the first move. Maybe they think YOU are the one who is being stuck up" You don't have to like them after you meet, but at least you meet them. Besides then you get to be the main mean girl of the club

[Nicole Erin]

That is why it is important to try to blend and mingle within the vanilla/straight community. Now I am all for having TG friends but if some TG do not accept me into their silly cliques, I don't give a damn. There are many more options for friends in the straight community.

I know there is a clique or two in the real-life TG group I sometimes attend. I have no time for it.

I do have a few TG friends. They tend to be lone wolves like me.

One's goal as a TG should be to mingle in the real world and not so much trying to be accepted by other TG who are often hiding, insecure, worried about passing, etc.

[PaulaQ]

I think you make a good point Erin, but I am having an increasingly difficult time blending in the vanilla / straight community. I just don't find I have much to talk about with them. I'm a lot more comfortable around all the gay guys I know now. It's not like I try to avoid the straight world - but I don't really feel like I belong there in any way shape or form. I'm not sure what to do about that. I'd like to - but I just don't. I'm not afraid of them, or scared "omg, what if I don't pass!" - I really don't care about that stuff.

I do have some straight friends who I do things with, and I frequently do things with my sister and one of her friends. But increasingly, I feel the need to edit a lot of what goes on in my life so that things don't get too weird for them.

Back on topic - I agree with Lorileah, and was going to say almost the same thing. Waiting for people to approach you is a recipe for loneliness.

[rocketscientist]

Beth's post= +1! LOVE IT! Jennifer, I would think that maybe you are going to the wrong places at the wrong times. Try to find cd specific gatherings and maybe support groups nearby. Shouldn't be too difficult in the Motor City area. Befriend some girls from your area that are members here. Start networking. Find out from others what's going on and where you can go. Also, are you putting yourself out there to others? Or do you just sit quietly by yourself? If you feel like a fish out of water others will pick up on that too. Be friendly and confident. Inject yourself into group conversations. If they do not want to be friendly or at least cordial they are not worth your time. Move on to others until you find someplace or someone you "click" with. Right now I will personally invite you to the next TG Weekend happening April 4-6 in Douglas/Saugatuck, MI. I'm sure you will find many like minded, friendly people there! Hope you can make it. We usually have a pretty good contingent from the Detroit area come in. Hugs,Tonya