Katie is busting out all over

[LICutie]

Thanks, PaulaQ, i appreciate you taking the time to reply, and also your take on it; it makes sense the way you say it; I hope that this thread is still helpful to OP (Katie), and others, too, as it is for me.

For me, i am more in a neutral place on it as there definitely is a sexual attraction and affair with myself going on or maybe it is is within myself (which i could be wrong on but i believe Katie may have expressed similar feelings)?

i am learning to love and forgive myself and i guess part of that self-love is sexual and... eek, possibly perverse (not to me... but maybe it could be to others?).

i am reconciling that the sacred and profane may go hand in hand and sometimes they are interchangeable and that they could certainly be subjective and relative depending on who and how things are happening.

the other half is that maybe someone (me included) could be both trans and fetish?

last but not least, while i am familiar with the term "a bit of a red herring", i had never heard of "a load of codswallop" until now.

Hugs,
Lil

[LICutie]

wow that's a sweet and heartfelt post, Jenny.

i tend to believe that life is a rough road no matter how and where we find ourselves; that said maybe makes it easier?

i know the saying goes "honesty is the best policy" but what about "some things are better not said"?

i mean (i guess as long as i'm on cliches and sayings) i know "it takes two to tango" so as long as both parties are "in it to win it" there is always some chance it will sort out?

optimistic hugs,
Lil

[ReineD]

i am learning to love and forgive myself and i guess part of that self-love is sexual and... eek, possibly perverse (not to me... but maybe it could be to others?).

There is no harm if it is sexual for you. The idea that fetishes are perverse are going by the way of the dinosaur. Most of the advice you see now from sex therapists is to enjoy. What was once considered a perverted fetish can now be thought of simply as an alternate and valid sexual attraction. It only becomes problematic if it has a negative impact on other aspects of life such as an ability to focus on work, or if impacts a sexual relationship (with a partner who is not into it), or if it causes someone to isolate (forego other activities in order to stay at home alone to indulge).

As to the terminology (AGP), you need to know it is controversial. TSs understandably hate the term because it was used initially as a way to describe a fetish motive for the transition of female-attracted TSs, and they only see the term in that sense. So they say it is hogwash for everyone. But if you separate the term from any need to transition, you will find there are lots of CDs (or however they identify themselves) who do relate to the concept of self (auto) as a woman (gyne) love (philia).

[lpjamey]

I know exactly how you feel and I will post my feelings soon. Thank you katie

[PaulaQ]

It's all well and good to discount the direct experiences of transsexuals who's real life experience runs counter to that predicted by Blanchard's AGP theory. I mean, we're just ashamed and political and stuff, I guess.

Still, scientific studies of the theory, such as they are, haven't shown it holding up especially well as a model for transsexuality.

I think the notion that CDs experience a more mild form of the same gender dysphoria that transsexuals experience is probably a lot closer to the truth, or at least a better description.

BTW, I'm not opposed to the notion that CDs and TSs may be totally separate entities. That's certainly possible. But if so, any time I ask for explanations of the following observations, all I get is much arm-waving, little science:
1. CDing would appear to be a symptom of transsexuality - it appears in young children even who are unquestionably transsexual.
2. Why is it that some CDs are in fact transsexuals, and ultimately transition? How do we differentiate between the two? (Hint: You normally can't until transition.)

[LICutie]

There is no harm if it is sexual for you. The idea that fetishes are perverse are going by the way of the dinosaur. Most of the advice you see now from sex therapists is to enjoy. What was once considered a perverted fetish can now be thought of simply as an alternate and valid sexual attraction. It only becomes problematic if it has a negative impact on other aspects of life such as an ability to focus on work, or if impacts a sexual relationship (with a partner who is not into it), or if it causes someone to isolate (forego other activities in order to stay at home alone to indulge).

As to the terminology (AGP), you need to know it is controversial. TSs understandably hate the term because it was used initially as a way to describe a fetish motive for the transition of female-attracted TSs, and they only see the term in that sense. So they say it is hogwash for everyone. But if you separate the term from any need to transition, you will find there are lots of CDs (or however they identify themselves) who do relate to the concept of self (auto) as a woman (gyne) love (philia).

Wow, thanks Reine for the reply, you are very wise in your words.

I could be wrong but maybe Katie's (and others in similar relationships) need to bust out all over happens when it all comes to a head, like a dam building up that finally breaks! Sometimes time makes certain parts of life more bearable but it could also make it unbearable, too.

As for the AGP, i love how you simplified it because it has always seem complicated to me that it never made sense...

Hugs,
Lil

[LICutie]

It's all well and good to discount the direct experiences of transsexuals who's real life experience runs counter to that predicted by Blanchard's AGP theory. I mean, we're just ashamed and political and stuff, I guess.

Still, scientific studies of the theory, such as they are, haven't shown it holding up especially well as a model for transsexuality.

I think the notion that CDs experience a more mild form of the same gender dysphoria that transsexuals experience is probably a lot closer to the truth, or at least a better description.

BTW, I'm not opposed to the notion that CDs and TSs may be totally separate entities. That's certainly possible. But if so, any time I ask for explanations of the following observations, all I get is much arm-waving, little science:
1. CDing would appear to be a symptom of transsexuality - it appears in young children even who are unquestionably transsexual.
2. Why is it that some CDs are in fact transsexuals, and ultimately transition? How do we differentiate between the two? (Hint: You normally can't until transition.)

Wow PaulaQ, you bring up some very intriguing and insightful points. I appreciate that and whether people agree with you all the way or not, what you are saying is definitely worth reading, imo!

Perhaps, in our lives, it may seem like it comes down to choices but i believe that maybe there is more to it than just that alone. Almost like a current, or a tide, this invisible push/pull that is always present?

Hugs,
Lil