What if Your Best Male Friend...?

[GeminaRenee]

So, here's a hypothetical I've been modeling a bit in my mind lately. It was inspired by a post from another member who has a close friend whom they thought might have cd/tg leanings, so the member, desirous of a potential shared bond between the two, tried to encourage the friend to reveal any trans-orientation. Results were less than optimal, I guess.

That got me to wondering: if my one of my closest male friends came out as CD, how would I feel about sharing that new commonality with him?

No matter how I try to model the idea in my head, I have to say that I don't feel like I would be comfortable in becoming bosom CD buddies with any of them. Maybe I should clarify: of course I would accept/encourage any sort of non-cis gender expression, should any of them ever come out as such. But if Friend X came out about it, I don't feel like I would be in any hurry to go dress shopping with him or the like.

I've been trying to isolate the why of this, and I think it's for a couple of reasons:

-For one, I've known my closest male friends for up to 20 years now. My relationships with these guys were forged around activities like racing cars, lifting weights, fishing, climbing mountains, chasing girls, listening to loud music, and drinking lots of beer. The idea of such a drastic shift in paradigm is almost too much for me to wrap my mind around, let alone enthusiastically embrace. I should emphasize: it's not that I wouldn't be supportive (or they me, for that matter - one of the reasons that my closest friends are my closest friends is that they are impressively sensitive, thoughtful, and open-minded for guys - otherwise they'd just fall into the realm of guy friends that I generally just sort of tolerate), I would just find it difficult to process the development.

(As an aside, thinking about this has given me a new appreciation for the SO who has had this sprung on them after years and years. It must be incredibly difficult to assimilate all of that new information, and reconcile it with the concept of the person that you've grown to know after all of this time.)

-For another thing, giving thought to this topic has made me realize, once again, just how compartmentalized my male-ness and female-ness are. Behind closed doors, or with certain people (for example, my female friends who I am out to), I have gotten much better at not drawing such a definitive line between the two - and therefore a more accurate picture of my whole self. But in most situations, or with guy friends, I am reluctant to wipe out that line to any significant degree. And the more I think about this, I wonder what the implications are. Does this mean that I am more ashamed of myself than I would like to admit? Am I less secure in the person than I am than I have lead myself to believe?

Not that I'm asking for answers to those questions from all of you - those are things I have to sort out on my own, and in time. Funny how much of a puzzle I can still be to myself, huh?

So, I'm curious about how some of you would react. If your best male friend suddenly revealed a cd/tg propensity to you (and you to him), would you enthusiastically embrace it without question and run off to Macy's to try on shoes? Or do you think it would be something you would be more reluctant to share completely, at least at first? Or would it be something else altogether that I haven't even considered?

[samantha rogers]

I think I would be overjoyed. I have never kept a lot of close male friends, I expect having something to do with the anxiety of my own GID. So the few I maintain (not counting many I classify as associates or acquaintances rather than friends) are very special to me. Keeping this side of myself secret and apart from those real friends is a cross to bear. If one of them came out to me as CD I doubt I could contain my enthusiasm. I would probably be a total wreck of tears and joy.

[Hell on Heels]

First off I'd have to get over the shock, I can't imagine that any of my guy friends are CD. Once I was sure they weren't pulling my leg, or trying to get Kristyn to come out of the closet, and they were truly CD. I think I would share with them. Maybe not the whole shoe shopping thing, but at least my story, provided they shared teir's, and build on it from there.

[sandra-leigh]

I can think of at least two of my male friends whom I would feel comfortable going Shopping with. I can think of at least whom I would not be comfortable doing that with. It is perhaps no coincidence that the two I would feel comfortable with, I have already told about my being transgender, and the other two I have not told and expect them to take it badly.

[GeminaRenee]

I guess I should include that it's not that I wouldn't be open to talking about it with any of them. Of course I would - they could come out to me about most anything without fear of judgment. And I certainly would be happy for them, and happy for me to know that someone that is important to me is in the same boat - or at least a similar boat in the same fleet. But I think it would be difficult indeed to then incorporate dressing as part of the friendship, in the way that dressing might form a large part of the friendship between myself and someone that I knew to be cd/tg from the get-go.

[laura.lapinski]

GeminaRene:

This was an awesome post with original thinking. Thanks. My thoughts parallel yours. I agree. I have this very compartmentalized, and on further review I think that is OK. We don't share all the stuff we do with our spouses with our friends. We might joke with them in generalizations, but we don't go into details. Even less so with our co-workers. I suppose you shouldn't be overly concerned with your compartmentalization of it since we compartmentalize lots of things for reasons of appropriateness and consequence.

Still, I also agree that we should be as authentic to as many as we can about who we are. I think that, for me, is a work in progress. Honesty is the best policy for our own or best well-being. Easier said than done.

[PaulaQ]

I'd be totally cool with it. I'd help them through their fears, help them come out if they needed to, and I'd definitely go shopping with them. I'd be thrilled, honestly. I'd be delighted to give them tips on makeup, and help them choose clothing. I'd DEFINITELY help them go out en femme, when they were ever ready for that.

As far as CDing together - I can't really answer that. For me, these are just my clothes, so spending a day trying on different outfits together would feel a little weird. I'm not saying I wouldn't do that - but it would definitely be atypical for me!

This will NEVER happen to me, but I'd sure be thrilled if it did.

[noeleena]

Hi,
I have 6 bestest friends 3 male and 3 women , for the time from 19 59 on they were my real friends they were / are older than i so we were very close, now two of the men i worked with and we did lots togeather, so thats my background of my 6 friends one has since past on 3 of those i saw about 7 years ago and thier acceptance of myself is no different

They knew me as a kid and 7 years ago they saw and met me as a woman. we can talk about things that we did and are still close as friends and when i catch up with them again we just carry on as before,

can i talk about cars yes i do with friends next door a bit more up market what ever, over my head type thing yet the basic's are the same so i help out when needed, some of the guys would be thinking whats this chic, well more, old bird, he he ..... know any way, well grounded in trucks heavy farm gear cars and any thing on wheels . they soon find out this chic does know what she's on about so im treated with respect and we get on very well.

So you see just because im a female and muck up to my armpits im not some old bird who knows nothing plus i have thier young daughter over here and i take her out with me,

So when you talk about mates or guys you get on well with if they are real mates then what you wear or in my case being female does it relly become an issue for myself even after what 55 years, of knowing my friends and men who were are lovely mates,

I know i had a lot of difficultys with men and hated being around them, yet i had 3 lovely guys who were/ are close to me you know thats really so so neat , i know youll never know what it means to me i dont expect you too, it really does something to me they keeped me safe and i really enjoyed thier company.

...noeleena...

[Katey888]

Fascinating thoughts, Gemina - very searching... and you make a huge point about why SOs find this so difficult to deal with, and in some cases, impossible to reconcile with their earlier relationship.

I think a lot depends on the nature of ones friends and relationships... all of my male friends now have been business colleagues in the past - the context of that friendship is more limited than folk you might grow up with at an earlier stage in life... I can understand why you would find it more difficult to cope with such an apparent radical change in one of your friends' personalities.

I'd like to think that I would be able to talk about it and share a similar discussion to that which we have here.. To have someone to talk to, who understands, and whom one already trusts, would be too good a chance to miss... How that might develop further...? Hard to tell...

Seems like you've hit a very deep reason why many folk have difficulty understanding any of us... thought provoking...

Thanks Gemina - great thinking and honesty...

Katey x

[Shari]

Wow, great post Gemina. It has the gray matter percolating.
Once I was able to get my jaws closed and process the info a bit more, I think I would say okay, that took some guts to tell me that. I would be supportive and not turn them away.
By the same token, I would need some time before I might come out to them. I certainly wouldn't gush and say welcome to my world. I'd need to know if it was actually true. That would take some time to process.
Given time and acceptance I might come out to them later on. Shopping? Who knows? Dressing together? Another question mark.
Did I already write "great post"?

[Milou]

Actually, I just found out that my best friend is a crossdresser (wow, coincidence) and that we have more things in common than I initially thought. He even helped me with some stuff, but I try to limit crossdressing as much as possible.

[GeminaRenee]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Very thought provoking. Just a couple of points I wanted to respond to specifically:

I have this very compartmentalized, and on further review I think that is OK. We don't share all the stuff we do with our spouses with our friends. We might joke with them in generalizations, but we don't go into details. Even less so with our co-workers. I suppose you shouldn't be overly concerned with your compartmentalization of it since we compartmentalize lots of things for reasons of appropriateness and consequence.

Still, I also agree that we should be as authentic to as many as we can about who we are. I think that, for me, is a work in progress. Honesty is the best policy for our own or best well-being. Easier said than done.

You do raise a good point about compartmentalization. It can be a useful survival strategy, and not just pertaining to crossdressing. I think there's often a fine line though, with things we compartmentalize. We can quickly go from keeping things in neat "piles" to bottling things up in a dangerous fashion. I know that's not always an easy juggling act for me.

The other thing that concerns me about compartmentalization in my life, is that I often feel like it reflects insecurity or shame in who I am. I don't like that feeling, and I'd often like to think that I'm above it. But the reality is not always so convenient for me.

As you say, though - everything's a work in progress.

I think a lot depends on the nature of ones friends and relationships... all of my male friends now have been business colleagues in the past - the context of that friendship is more limited than folk you might grow up with at an earlier stage in life... I can understand why you would find it more difficult to cope with such an apparent radical change in one of your friends' personalities.

A good observation, Katey. I have known all of my close guy friends since high school. In a way, this would make it easier for me to come out to them, if i were to choose to do so - while simultaneously making it more difficult for me to process the same information about them, were the shoe on the other foot.

Interestingly, I am out to 5 female friends now. 3 of the 5 are women that were business colleagues at one point. I am still cautious about telling women, but it's interesting the dichotomy between the sexes, in that I am willing to tell women from a setting that I would probably never share with a guy from, yet still find difficulty with guys. Even when the roots of the male relationships should provide a more fertile ground for that sort of revelation.

I guess that says a little about what is expected from men from a cultural standpoint, doesn't it?

[dominique]

Good post. If that happened to me I'd need to take some time to digest the news. For it would change the whole dynamic of our relationship, also I'd wonder why all of sudden he decided to tell me. As me telling him I would have to see how our relationship and how effects the group. I'd have to wait a long time to out myself to him just to see if its for real or not. Maybe after that time I'd like to shop together.

[CarlaWestin]

Gemina, Thank you for capturing and exposing that little thought that's been tinkerbelling around in my head. I have a best friend that has been like a brother for well over 50 years. I've shared every personal thought, emotion and life event with him except crossdressing. Oh there's been the occasional laugh about being home alone wearing the wife's panties and stuff. As of late, he's adopted an unfortunate homophobic, born again stance in his life which uncontrollably seeps into conversations. Although I ask him to respectfully keep his religious prejudice comments to himself, the stupid $hit just comes right out. Just as this behaviour infuriates me, I can only imagine what the outcome of, "what if I told you I love wearing women's clothing, wearing makeup and having breasts?" So, in conclusion, I think I like things just the way they are.

Interesting, meeting new male friends that CD is a non-issue but, having an old friend disclose CD'ing to me would be, well, at least, adventurous.

[natcrys]

To answer the question in your last paragraph.. yes!

If he's totally cool with it.. then yes.. I'd be doing the same as what I have been doing with all my female friends to whom I've come out as Tassia.

Now, for the rest of your post.. I do understand that part where you're hesitant mixing the two worlds.. because some things will definitely change. And you're the only one who can judge if that will work for you.. talking about racing cars and beer one minute.. and then talking about shoes and make-up. It took me a while doing that with my friends.. and they aren't (as far as I know) CD/TV/TG. But now it feels quite natural!

[MsVal]

Phew, that's a lot to take in this early in the morning Gemina, but I want to post my first thoughts, with a possible follow up after more consideration.

My initial thought was gleeful acceptance with a great many ongoing conversations about all things CD. That was okay, but other questions come to mind.

What if I wasn't sure that the friend was sincere?
What if the friend's CD interest was something I don't enjoy (e.g. fetish)?
What if the friend had just made a general disclosure and wanted to disclose me as well?

Then, there is the definition of "friend".
"Facebook friends" are the sort that wished me happy birthday, only because facebook told them about it.
"Friendlies" are those I can talk to about nearly any impersonal thing.
"Close friendlies" are those I can talk with about personal things but only if it comes up in conversation.
"Close friends" are those that can be phoned at any time with confidence they will help.

You've posted a very interesting, very introspective, very thought provoking piece, Gemina. I hope it attracts a lot of attention and more excellent followup posts.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Rhonda Darling]

GeminaRenee:

First, echoing others, GREAT TOPIC.

I've actually given this some thought in the past, but those thoughts have never been focused until reading your OP and the responses. I have a few different groupings of good/close friends, with some crossover among those groups. Most of those friends at times reflect the stereotypical personae of testosterone laced males who absorb sports, professes machismo, are mildly to wildly misogynistic, occasionally speak conspiratorially and derisively about gays and gay marriage, and lump any male who wears any female clothing as a fag, tyrannie, queer, etc. One on one it is easy to chastise any of them about their views, insensitivity, and to tell them that I don't appreciate or share such views. Get a few together and it's a whoe different ball game. Speak up in defense of women, gays, lesbians, or CD/TS/TG and you are accused of having too much estrogen, or no balls, or being part of the problem and not macho enough.

All that is prologue for this. I suspect that among all of them, there is at least one closet gay, possible a closet CD, and a few who like me don't like listening to the bull crap coming from otherwise decent guys. I guess the guys I'm describing would fit the current understanding of bullies. So, how to tell those who may share any of my attitudes, gender choices, etc. from among the larger group? If one were to reveal herself to me as CD/TS/TG, I would be naturally skeptical and cautious. I've spent most of my 63 years hiding in plain sight and avoiding revealing Rhonda to other than my wonderful SO and to the lovely ladies of the CD groups that I belong to (and of course, to the great SAs at all the stores and shops that I frequent). The last thing I would want would be to be baited into revealing myself as Rhonda to someone who may suspect or who may have seen me online and who was seeking confirmation of their suspicions.

If I found them to be earnest, I would reveal Rhonda and do all that I could to be supportive of them. Going shopping together would be a distant goal. Going to dinner or to a movie, or to museums, etc, would be much more likely.

Your mileage may differ.

[PaulaQ]

One thing I think that makes a big difference for me is that I'm out as trans to all of my friends. I've asked them for acceptance, so I'd assume they'd expect it from me as well.

[Rob]

I would think you would treat them the same way you treated them before they came out and be 100% open to whatever future developments might occur like shopping for whatever they might need... especially if they asked. They are a friend and friends have each others backs regardless of gender identity, right?

For the record i have no CD tendencies nor am i transgender, i am simply here to learn and be a friend to my friend who is transgender and YES, i went shopping with my friend. Well okay, i did my version of shopping, which was me and my 2 boys followed the women (Wife, Eva and my 2 girls) around while they shopped. Me and the boys tried to entertain ourselves and stills stay out of trouble, mostly successfully i might add.

[Beverley Sims]

With a best friend it would take a lot longer to get used to.
Familiarity breeds contempt.
Casual acquaintances are much better to assimilate.

[GeminaRenee]

Thanks for all of the insightful responses. It's interesting to hear a cross-section of views, and consider a few things that hadn't occurred to me.

What if I wasn't sure that the friend was sincere?
What if the friend's CD interest was something I don't enjoy (e.g. fetish)?
What if the friend had just made a general disclosure and wanted to disclose me as well?

Then, there is the definition of "friend".

This had never occurred to me, given the context of my relationships, but I can see how each could be a question someone else might ask. In my case, when I say "close friends," I truly mean that. As in, we've been through thick and thin together, we've seen each other's best and worst, and I would say that we trust one another implicitly. One reason that these guys are my best friends is also that they are not members of the misogynistic, homophobic, insensitive crowd. If they were, I wouldn't be as close with them as I am. Those sorts of people I keep at arms length, and regard rather warily. I also would have no reason to doubt their sincerity. I've never known them to be dishonest or deceitful, and certainly not the type of guys to play tricks like that.

Of course, I realize that the mileage of others may vary. But that is what I had in mind when I used the term "closest friends."

I would think you would treat them the same way you treated them before they came out and be 100% open to whatever future developments might occur like shopping for whatever they might need... especially if they asked. They are a friend and friends have each others backs regardless of gender identity, right?

For the record i have no CD tendencies nor am i transgender, i am simply here to learn and be a friend to my friend who is transgender and YES, i went shopping with my friend.

First of all, Rob, it makes me very happy to hear that you're that supportive of your TG friend. The world needs more friends like you, and not just guys. And yes, you're right - friends do have each other's backs, no matter what. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have my friends' backs, or support them, nor would I worry too much that they wouldn't do the same for me.

The difference, though, is that there are more "moving parts," as it were, in a situation with two cd/tg people - which was the general intention of this hypothetical. And now that I've asked the question and digested some of the responses, I realize that the real stumbling block (for me, anyways), would be my own gender exploration that might cause discomfort. It wouldn't be simply adjusting to perceived changes in a friend. It would be that, plus baring a side of myself to a friend with whom the whole thing had heretofore been completely hidden. I don't mean to minimize your experience at all, believe me. But I would have to imagine it would be one thing to watch a guy friend try on a high heel for the first time, and another thing entirely to be asking one another "how do I look in this sundress?"

In any event, great discussion.

(:

[Rob]

But I would have to imagine it would be one thing to watch a guy friend try on a high heel for the first time, and another thing entirely to be asking one another "how do I look in this sundress?"
(:

Lolololol. The shoes and commenting on wigs and clothes and makeup was odd... it got really weird when you start discussing sexuality and transgender, my mind is still a bit torqued over that one but we did have fun with that conversation and ended up laughing about it.

Now that said you mention your own gender exploration. I think i have to admit i was viewing that from my own point of view. When i look at it from the point of view of having that discussion and going through it my self it gets really off the wall... so point taken... Thank you!

[trishacd]

When i was a young gurl i came so close to telling
My best friend about me. To this day i am so glad i
didnt tell him.I would be hesitant to tell anyone who
Has mutual friends.Even if he had good intensions everyone has
a friend who they think they can be discrete,before you know
It everyone knows.I wish i could call a friend and tell em
about a new dress or heels i bought but its risky.
Once you let the cat out of the bag a lot of things can change in your
life.
Good luck
Trisha

[MsVal]

Darn it Gemina, you're making me think, and I don't care for the things that I'm thinking.

Sorry, I overlooked the part where you said closest male friend. But it got me thinking about all my friends, and how I would categorize them. Sadly, I have no close friends. Zero. Null set. I haven't for nearly 45 years. I may have two close friendlies, but that's about it.

Sheesh... I sound pathetic.

I quit hanging around with the guys when I got married, and eventually lost track of them. I didn't miss them. I had a wife and kids, a career, church, and volunteer involvement. Who needs Guy Talk when I really don't care for most of what they talk about anyhow (sports, toys, boasting, sex...)?

It would be cool to have a cadre of female friends, but it is not worth the disrespect it would show for my wife and our marriage.

So, I guess that I have very little substance to contribute to your excellent post, Gemina.

Best wishes
MsVal

[GeminaRenee]

Val,

I would disagree that you have nothing to contribute. You made me consider the question from a different perspective than my own, when I am so often inclined to forget that the world doesn't revolve around me! (; I'm certainly glad you wrote.

Also, your statement about having female friends being a show of disrespect towards your wife and marriage - do you think that's really true? Or that's just the way it would be perceived? This is an issue that dances in and out of my life. I do have a group of close female friends, and certainly a lot more than your average guy. And I learned way back in high school that I never wanted to push away friends in favor of a partner. So the issue comes up again and again - women I date are not comfortable with my female friends. And I'm not going to push them away for anyone. It's not as if I can't control myself sexually; I'm not an ape in a zoo. It's not disrespectful, it's not a threat - these friendships are only perceived as such. And apparently that's what makes them so.

Anyways, I digress. Thank you for your contributions. (: