The nature of being femme (GGs also welcome)

[Marcelle]

Wow . . . this is exactly why this gal does not like labels. This incessant need to pigeon hole one group of people into one neat category (feminine or masculine). I never got the concept . . . oh I get the theory, history, philosophy, biology but its raison d'etre, never made sense to me. I don't consider myself masculine as I would not even know how to define that any more than I consider myself feminine or could define that. I try to live my life as a good person, show empathy, respect others, help others. Do I get mad, jealous, catty, angry, hostile? You bet but anyone can given the right circumstances.

I have been in situations where I have seen the worse humanity has to offer (I will spare you the details). Was it all men doing these things? I'll give you one guess and "yes" is not the right answer. Humans are capable of the whole range of emotion and to attribute them to one gender is egregious. With emotions come action so a hostile person will most likely reach out and lay a smack down on someone. A empathetic person is more likely to act kindly towards others. However, one gender does not lay claim to any one emotion or the actions that go with it. I knew a guy, manly man extraordinaire who never batted an eye when his buddies got hit or killed (he was just being stoic, steely, gritty, manly . . . whatever). This same guy broke down into an emotional sobbing wreck when a dog he was feeding wandered into a minefield and was killed. Did he suddenly throw off the mantle of masculinity and become feminine? Nope, he was demonstrating humanity and it can be a hard task master.

I stopped trying to refer to myself as feminine (funny thing for a cross dresser who goes out dressed as woman) but if truth be told I have no concept of femininity only a societal definition and we all know how great societal definitions and sterotypes work out. When I am out, dressed girl or boy I am me. I experience the whole range of emotions and would react no differently boy or girl. I don't suddenly put on my guy hat and find a pipe to plumb or a car to fix. Likewise I don't put on a dress and suddenly decide I want to take up needlepoint or cross-stitch. My habits, hobbies, emotions, actions, reactions have never changed . . . perhaps I am weird. I just don't believe in either concept . . . we are humans that is all. The only difference is biological.

So endeth the rant . . . sorry.

Hugs

Isha

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Isha, I'm curious. Why do you need to wear women's clothing if you don't feel any different either way?

[Jenniferathome]

So this thread was titled:
The nature of being femme (GGs also welcome)

Asking cross dressers about being feminine...ironic
Allowing women to also join the topic... more ironic
Women ARE feminine and are unable to be able to explain it...super ironic

[PaulaQ]

So this thread was titled:
The nature of being femme (GGs also welcome)

Asking cross dressers about being feminine...ironic
Allowing women to also join the topic... more ironic
Women ARE feminine and are unable to be able to explain it...super ironic

I'm not sure I understand what's ironic about any of that. This is a forum, at least in part about gender. Exploring what makes us perceived as being either masculine or feminine seems like a legitimate discussion to me.

Not all women are feminine, btw. I know some very, very masculine ones. The ones who are generally perceived as feminine are generally unable to explain why people perceive them as they do. I know, because I ask all of them.

This may seem like a fairly silly and academic exercise to many on this forum, but it matters to me a great deal because I spend a fair amount of my time trying to understand this stuff, because I'd like to pass, because *I am* a woman. Convincing the outside world of this is another matter, though. So each time I'm misgendered, I like to try to understand what I did wrong. (I also know that to some of us here, each such failure is simply proof to them that I'm simply some poor, deluded man.)

As I said, this may seem pointless to you. You, and many others here, are male-identified, and cross dressing in public is not such a serious matter for you - if you are really having a bad time of it that day, you can pack it in, switch back to boy-mode, and take care of business. I have no such luxury, so this stuff is important to me.

I'm ridiculed when I get it wrong sometimes - many of us are. Ridicule isn't so bad - some of us are actually attacked when we get it wrong. That's a lot worse, and so questions on the nature of being femme are of rather critical importance to us trans women. Often they are questions of dignity or safety. I know many in society disagree that we deserve such considerations, but I'd hope that on this forum, most of us could understand why we'd want them.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Feminine ( noun )

Gender that refers chiefly ( not exclusively to females or to objects classified as female .

Feminine ( adjective )

associated with women and not men.
of grammatical gender .
befitting or characteristic of a woman especially a ...MATURE... woman,

I am feminine because i am a female just not in my facial features, though for some im not included as a GG, out side of some forums i am just not in the sence as how its used here,

because of being born different that then changes that then changes how people percive who i am , so the ? of what am i male or female, even with my background im accepted as female, though in fairness for understanding i dont have a sex there is none, no sex organs male or female as would be used termed or seen and for gender again none,

So that leaves where do i fit i dont not really as a binery and iv crossed both genders in one quick hit,

Now how im recived is very interesting because theres this fusion of both male and female and cant be seperated, that leaves myself wide open to people in how they perceive this well and truly mixed human being i belive most have accepted im just a normal female who has grown into a very mature woman , i was quite a grown up mature for my age from quite young .

this time round from 50 on the changes that have taken place were to take place only at the right time, as a part of my growing .

i know i have opened many 1000's of peoples minds along the way, in fact 10,000 of thousands

wether you belive me or not does not matter i know from the feed back i'v had from many people of what i did was a door open for them to see them selfs and given them a way to carry forward thier belive in them selfs that they to could see thier lives as where they need to be, or will get to where they can be,

Paula ,

Im a masculine woman a female as it is, not complete as most know and my many friends they allso know my inability to accept my femininity , i know its there i just cant get hold of it , its like so far above my reach and to hard of an issue to comprehend,

No i dont pass never will, though that does not bother me , i can still go any where, and do my public relations work that does not stop what i do, hey i know my disadvantages i work around them , we all have disadvantages just remember we do have advantages as well ,

We just need to see them grab hold of and work with them instead, im no different than many other women i have body issues plus a few others quite a few , any way , and no i cant just put them aside they govern my life in many ways part of how i was born,

I just will not let that rule my life, pity you not meet me,

i dont have to convince any one i never tryed, the only convincing was could i accept that others would accept who i am , those involved with myself is in the 1000;s do i need any more convincing , ...no....

Paula ,

I had the advantage of being female ( ill use in part ) because i dont wont people to think oh your a bloody female any way so where's your bundle of issues, no i had other issues well still have some , so what im trying to say is i did not find things on a silver plate i still had to go through things to get where i am now, And my acceptance,

And just a fun bit , id love to go to my county where some of my history is you know what id fit in very nicely , why because many of our women were hard working very stropy looking Frauen

yet lovely to be around and down to earth my looks would not matter a bit,

And to the some extent my friends here in Waimate are so lovely and its so neat to be with them,

...noeleena...

[Cheryl T]

Right now I'm concerned with the Nature of Being ME!!
I don't like scales (can't sing and refuse to step on the other kind) but if I had to put a number to it on yours I'm a 3.

[BernieGF]

I'm a GG, and have been criticized for things such as not growing my nails, not caring about"girly" stuff my entire life. I'd rather spend my money on art supplies than a manicure! I've been assumed to be a lesbian when affectionate with other GG GFs. I'm quite feminine in appearance, and although always dated guys, have never been ashamed of my attraction to all kinds of people. My point is, there are no rules other than those of(mainstream) society, and we all know how many lies we're told...I am still feminine when I'm building a fire, or baking a souffle...or am I? Ha ha!

[BernieGF]

I'm not sure I understand what's ironic about any of that. This is a forum, at least in part about gender. Exploring what makes us perceived as being either masculine or feminine seems like a legitimate discussion to me.

Not all women are feminine, btw. I know some very, very masculine ones. The ones who are generally perceived as feminine are generally unable to explain why people perceive them as they do. I know, because I ask all of them.

This may seem like a fairly silly and academic exercise to many on this forum, but it matters to me a great deal because I spend a fair amount of my time trying to understand this stuff, because I'd like to pass, because *I am* a woman. Convincing the outside world of this is another matter, though. So each time I'm misgendered, I like to try to understand what I did wrong. (I also know that to some of us here, each such failure is simply proof to them that I'm simply some poor, deluded man.)

As I said, this may seem pointless to you. You, and many others here, are male-identified, and cross dressing in public is not such a serious matter for you - if you are really having a bad time of it that day, you can pack it in, switch back to boy-mode, and take care of business. I have no such luxury, so this stuff is important to me.

I'm ridiculed when I get it wrong sometimes - many of us are. Ridicule isn't so bad - some of us are actually attacked when we get it wrong. That's a lot worse, and so questions on the nature of being femme are of rather critical importance to us trans women. Often they are questions of dignity or safety. I know many in society disagree that we deserve such considerations, but I'd hope that on this forum, most of us could understand why we'd want them.

PaulaQ, you explain things beautifully. Being a GG, it is hard to explain what makes a real person feminine (as opposed to just a dictionary description). As a woman, I sometimes resent the role I'm supposed to assume. I respect you so much...You and your journey. Sorry...I know that doesn't help much!!!

[PaulaQ]

As a woman, I sometimes resent the role I'm supposed to assume.

Thanks BernieGF - I know that many, many genetic women, both on this forum, and in the world at large, resent the roles they are forced into playing. I have watched this, with much sorrow, in my wife, my sister, and my mother, and nearly every other genetic woman I've known.

I think this is one of the things that makes so many of you so skeptical of someone like me, or even more so of the male identified CDs on this forum. I mean, why in the HELL would anyone want the abuse women frequently take? For the CDs, in many instances, they can pick and choose just the parts they find to be fun, and switch back to male privilege when the going gets tough. That has to cause at least a little resentment, over and above all the other myriad issues being a CD brings to the table.

In my case, it's a matter of life and death. If you held a gun to my forehead, and told me "Get back into your suit and revert back to living as a man, or die right this second!!!", I'd calmly tell you "Kill me then, and be done with it - it would be a mercy." (Err, not to imply you'd do that! You seem very nice!)

Being a woman is no picnic, and that's an understatement, but for me, being forced to live as a man is a fate worse than death.

So anyway, these kinds of topics are a matter of some import to me.

[BernieGF]

PaulaQ, I understand what you're saying. You are brave, and I really do admire you. My"plight" is simple annoyance (i get over the resentment by doing what I want). I get away with being a "B" and that's the end of that..

[ReineD]

...I am still feminine when I'm building a fire, or baking a souffle...or am I? Ha ha!

Yes we are! I'm still feminine when I'm wearing old clothes and doing home building projects, when I'm riding the lawn mower, and when I'm replacing the battery in a car. My femininity is not affected by what I wear and what I do. I feel comfortable in my body and what it can do, and this is what defines femininity for me. I know who I am.

I think a lot of people in this forum confuse being "girly" with being feminine. In my opinion being girly (pink clothes, long nails, etc) is just a style among many other styles/types that women can be: athletic, artistic, goth, business, biker-chick, punk, and countless others.

I'm very fortunate. At no time in my life was I ever made to feel as if I had to dress or be a certain way. So I have a huge range of options, just as most women that I know do. We can dress up to the nines when we want to, and we can get all gritty and do what needs to be done.

To the OP: I like what Jess said. I don't believe that human emotion or even reactions can be characterized as being feminine or masculine.

[PaulaQ]

What about communications style - do you think there is a difference in the ways men and women communicate?
What about problem solving styles, any differences there?