It's almost impossible to miss.

[Wildaboutheels]

Unless of course, you never bother to read other responses. And/OR, it's never come out of your own mouth. Something to the effect of , "I can't explain it" or "It just makes me feel right" or "It just feels right" Or "Dressing makes me feel whole" Or countless other variations.

Anything like that ever come off YOUR keyboard and end up here in this Forum?

And DID you or did you not at least pass through the O phase? Or are still in it?

If you did, has it ever occurred to you to connect the 2 dots? You don't even have to use a straight line to connect them. Feel free to use a curvy one or a long arc. There are no rules against connecting more/other dots either.

Or, do you think we Humans are way above "conditioning" and it just ain't gonna/can't happen? We are just way too smart for such silly foolishness. That Pavlov and his drooling dogs have absolutely nothing to do with at least SOME CDers [if not most] and their "affinity" with their clothes?

Aren't the chances at least "good", that unless you are one of the older members here, MUCH of the clothing you own, at least makes your mouth water a bit or puts a smile on your face or a spring in your..............step?

Or do you think dog whistles and what MOST CDers CHOOSE to wear have no connection whatsoever?

If you have have no earthly idea what I am talking about, and actually do wonder WHY the clothes make you feel "good" [just one POSSIBLE clue] you might want to Google Pavlov and his dogs.

Of course if you have NEVER been to O land at any point in time while [at least partially] dressed, you may have just wasted a full minute of your time reading this far. And you could have spent it answering a Panty thread.

It IS a safe bet, that as most CDers get older, the heels get shorter, and the dresses, skirts, etc., get longer.

Isn't it?

[Ezekiel]

Connecting crossdressing to sexual arousal? No, not me, sorry.

[Anna H]

I think it's been known and accepted for practically forever that
yes, for some it's directly related to sex.

Not all. So those remaining are the real mystery?

[Zylia]

Wild, you can try and push their buttons all you want, but you're not going to get a widespread acknowledgement here that we, human beings, are in fact sexual creatures, driven by sex (among other things) rather than side-tracked by it. We all know that men don't think about sex every five minutes, don't watch porn and do not masturbate at all, ever. Maybe the 'pigs' who stare at our (fake) boobs when we strut through the mall in our black miniskirt and 6-inch heels, but not us, cleanly shaven cross-dressers. To suggest that cross-dressing has (had) anything to do with sexual arousal for even a small group on this board is simply outrageous, even if any other gathering of cross-dressing individuals on the web proves otherwise.

Now it's time for you to get out of that ivory tower of yours and mingle with us commoners. You might even enjoy it

[Beverley Sims]

I read other responses but I am rarely swayed by them.
As fo explaining it, thinking takes up too much time.
I always feel right, that's why I havent bothered to see a therapist professionally.
They are all younger than me and don't know s much as I do.
In my role as an electrician O have touched live wires and sure you do get the "BIG O"
Not thrilling but a big "O".
I join two wires together, is that like connecting the dots?

I could throw you a curve ball.

I left Pavlov's dogs with Sheldon, he has more use for them than I.
I am a great believer in "conditioning" especially on a hot day.
It is one bit of foolishness I revel in.
Any fashionable, expensive, impractical clothing I have makes me wince, as I think of the money I wasted on it.
Most of it still has the labels on it when I take it to Goodwill.

Maybe you have seen it there.
Can't hear a dog whistle but I can see a dressed CD'er.
Oh yes, you are talking about airconditioning, deep thinking, pet dogs and electric shocks...
Aren't you?

I havent been to Netherland either, I have been to all the Disneyland s except the one in Japan so I am well versed on them.
IE. Paris Dizzyland is crap. The rest are worth a second visit.
My dresses remain short because I still have great legs, the face is falling apart and I wear 2 inch heels because they are practical.

Now I have vented I am going to ask you a personal question.

What color is the matching Bra/Panty set you are wearing today?

What in the hell are we all talking about here anyway?

[devida]

Oh I assumed it was just the decorum required by the board not denial of sexual arousal by the participants. The thrill I get if I wake up at night and feel my lace nightie and panties is at least partially sexual. Certainly it puts a smile on my face because it reminds me I am happy to be who I am but it also gives me a little erotic thrill as well as a little bit of sensual delight. Why would it not? I may be older but I remain a sexual being.

[Katey888]

Wild... If at first you don't succeed...

I refer my Right Honourable friend, the member for Tampa, to the UK's world leading National Survey of Sexual Attitudes and Lifestyles first undertaken in 1990 (in which your respondent took part) which surveyed some 18,876 adults aged 16-59. I recall that the results showed that a very high percentage - some 80%+ from memory - of males did, in fact, spank their monkey at least once a week...
And recent research in the USA from 2010 (Sexual behavior in the United States: Results from a national probability sample of men aged 14-94. Journal of Sexual Medicine) has a figure of around 60% for the same age range (references available on request).
I would strongly suggest that a significantly high percentage of these men do NOT crossdress and yet something else makes them do this...

Mr Speaker - if we were so Pavlovian in our behaviour, would the world not be awash with males only able to satisfy their desires by a connection with some thing that was present and available at the time of their first... eruption? And this clearly not being the case (as I for one have been able to undertake the aforementioned act in all sorts of circumstances, both clothed and naked, on several different continents and in many countries and time zones and sometimes with a participating partner) I would assert that the honourable member for Tampa is simply beating a dead horse again when he might be more productive 'charming a snake'...?

(Roars of laughter from the government benches and hoots of derision from the opposition)

Ours isn't called 'The Mother of Parliaments' for nothing...

Katey x

[ReineD]

We all know that men don't think about sex every five minutes, don't watch porn and do not masturbate at all, ever. Maybe the 'pigs' who stare at our (fake) boobs when we strut through the mall in our black miniskirt and 6-inch heels, but not us, cleanly shaven cross-dressers. To suggest that cross-dressing has (had) anything to do with sexual arousal for even a small group on this board is simply outrageous, even if any other gathering of cross-dressing individuals on the web proves otherwise.

LOL. Well put.

Wild, maybe a lot of members suffer from selective memory. They don't remember the sexual beginnings, or they don't acknowledge any, even if occasional, sexual outcomes as being tied to cross-gender expression. Maybe they just want to distance themselves from the topic because they feel it does not legitimate who they are today.

I personally do believe there is a connection. I also believe that things change.

Yes, Katey, men do spank the monkey, but non-CDs/TGs have different fantasies about it than do members of this community.

[docrobbysherry]

I'm older than nearly everyone here, Wild. And, at 70, wait patiently to become a dreary old dried up spinster.

But, while I'm waiting? I prefer to dress this way and see images like this in my mirror. Judging from the response to Sherry's FB page? Many guys get as excited by her look as I still do!

IMG_2389 (2) (387x640).jpg

As a side note: Sherry doesn't allow "monkey spanking" when she's around. She takes care of business the way any single, normal, and healthy GG would!

[franlee]

Reine you have pretty well nailed it. I can't imagine anyone having a reason to go to the trouble to dress with out the desire to make a statement of sexuality and the end results what ever that may be. Denial is alright if it makes one feel better, but not all of us need to. CDing is something I do for me and I own it.

[LilSissyStevie]

More often nowadays I'm looking at this phenomenon as a form of emasculation or more specifically auto-emasculation. From that point of view things start to make sense. If one finds comfort in emasculating oneself (feminization just being another somewhat less accurate word for it) then it could be expressed sexually or non-sexually. It makes perfect sense to me that it could be sexual early in life and progressively less sexual as one ages. It also makes sense that it could have never been sexual for some people. It just doesn't work to try to stuff everyone into the autogynephilia box. Autogynephilia is just one type of auto-emasculation. The Pavlovian angle doesn't explain why we do it in the first place. The question we should ask is why would anyone want to escape, or just take a break from, the demands of trying to conform to idealized notions of masculinity? {yes, it's rhetorical}

[KaceyR]

Sexuality It's definitely a part. Heck... My own late slow start to CD was really first acted on with a piece of lingerie...
There are so many ties across the zones (gender, sexual, artistic,emotional) that CDing participates in or works with.
The tying aspect is that we as MtF CDers do is that were able to act on it to bring out the aspects of each that, as a standard guy, there wouldn't be consideration.
I mean...looking at my path.
1: started CDing by myself with lingerie. Definitely a sexual attractor.
Then 2: curiosity piqued, arranged up an entire outfit (maid). This however _felt_ good.. It felt right. It felt empowering oddly enough. So while not primarily sexual, now I bring in gender and emotional side to the equation. I felt a way to express myself way more than just as a guy.
3:So with the feelings there, I continued on beyond 'costumes'. And it continues. But by this time along with the emotions and such.. The artistry comes into play, perfecting or working on fashion, looks, makeup. I _love_ to dress! and I love to try to make my dressing as sexy as I can. While I don't go bar trolling,etc,(although I have gone to a bar with a group) I'd still be flattered and love it if I got complemented. I have 48 years of boring unsexy unflattering maleness to make up for. I think parts of this is why many CDers (me too I guess) sometimes/often dress a little bit younger than their age. Making up for lost time. And the aspect that our beauty in some ways has to be more manufactured maybe allows us more leeway to try to do so. And In looking at clothing,etc.. When I see women's clothes I can read a sexiness..and a quality and capability to play with styles to achieve this. When I try to think of mens clothes...and what would be interesting or sexy for that side...I just can't see it.

So I'll probably continue dressing a bit younger as I can, feeling empowered all the way. Actually expressing myself freely than just having on dead male clothes and 'existing'. And if I _really_ want to bring out the real sexy side... Well I have other stockings, and a corset or lingerie for that

I like to try to follow my motto in my sig as much as possible

[Secret Drawer]

It always frustrates me when someone insist on painting everyone with the same brush. I suppose if any self identifying homosexual male crossdresser decided that all crossdressers whoever walked the earth throughout history were at least latent homosexuals they would be correct, because, just like the OP, if it is true for them then clearly it is true for everyone else as well.

[Wildaboutheels]

I would never embarrass anyone here by posting private email...

Private email is just that. PRIVATE.

FACT: Numerous times I have seen members post "It was never sexual for me". I wrote polite, respectful emails to 3 of these folks asking how that was possible? [given their posting history] It took no prodding at all. ALL three admitted [in the return email] that they posted "in error" when they used that word NEVER. I hope none of you are silly enough to make the assumption that "most" who say/claim it was never sexual for them are lying? Some of them HAVE switched teams, OR are in the process. Makes perfect sense that it wasn't ever sexual for THEM. Perhaps, [and it's just a guess] many were never turned on at all by women/women's bodies.

O's [like many drugs] are ADDICTIVE and release a flood of various chemicals into our brains. Male O's are VERY easy. They better be. MALE Os are what keep us on the planet. It's no accident that Female Os are basically irrelevant to keeping Humans going. Females just need to be willing to participate...and contribute the egg of course. [although some newer research shows that Female Os may help steer the sperm in the correct direction] Most men will use visual aids of one kind or another to get ready for a trip to O land. Or am I wrong about that? How many men here would enjoy having sex in complete darkness? All of this is very old news and is not changing anytime soon. ANYTHING that helps us get to O land our brains are not going to forget. It's really not very complicated.

The threads and topics that are always the most popular here,along with the flavor of the vast majority of what's found at the P&V gallery ARE accurate reflections of the masses here. Denying it won't change anything.

Will it?

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi WAH, Yes it was a minute of my life that I'll never get back.

I'm 71 and a lot of my Hi-Heels are still 4" to 5" and most of my skirts are above the knee.

[Gillian Gigs]

As far as I am concerned the Pavlov, or the conditioned response method of things works very well. If you do not believe it, take this challenge. Every day for the next 4 months tell yourself that you like some food that you never liked before. After doing this start to try that food saying that you like it, and increase your intake of it. I did something like this with my children. If they said they hated doing math, I would get them to say that they liked doing math every evening before eating supper. It was amazing how over the course of a year their marks improved in that subject! One of them ended up an honors student in a subject that they said they hated just 3 years earlier.
Now let us ask yourself this question, "how many times have we told ourselves that we love wearing panties...bras...skirts...etc?" Now what would happen if we started to say the opposite? Yea, yea, I can just hear the nay sayers saying it would never work, but the words of you mouth put you on a path that can and will lead you in a particular direction. Now what ever you do don't think about chocolate ice cream! ...........Got ya!

[Nadine Spirit]

I once had an "o" with a cantaloupe. Good thing that you took the time to explain to me why nowadays I eat cantaloupe.

Thanks.

[Rachael Leigh]

For me I will be honest that yes there was a sexual attraction to the clothes for sure and that in and of itself confused the crap out of me. I mean it made much more sense to be attracted to the girl in the clothes.
Now as one of the older CDs it's now an annoyance when there is a sexual thing going on when dressed, not saying I don't like it but it's not my purpose to dress to get that.

[Jenniferathome]

...you might want to Google Pavlov and his dogs....

Your post is mostly incomprehensible but your suggestion that conditioning, a la Pavlov, causes one or the other action (cross dressing / masturbation) is simply absurd. If you mean something else, I'll fall back to my "incomprehensible" comment.

[sanderlay]

Wild,

I'm not sure I completely understand your post... or what "O" means in your context. But... let me see if I can sum it up...

My cross-dressing is Conditioned or Connected to "O"?

Going on that assumption...

Short answer...
No.

Long Answer...
For me... My sex, male, and my gender identity, male and female, are separate. My ability, or desire, to have "O" has nothing to do with my gender identity. They do not connect.

My attraction to the clothes was Before I ever had "O". I'm quite sure it was and is linked to my gender identity and my desire to identify with female clothes.

PS: Feel free to PM me, or post here for all to see, if I have assumed wrong.

[trishacd]

Im with you

[suchacutie]

We have seen over and over members posting that they were dressing well before puberty. For me, Tina's clothes were certainly sensual to start with, but that just made the process more exotic and forbidden. Tina's relationships are still platonic and my heel s have never gotten shorter. Tina will flourish regardless of my more prurient desires, and those desires have never needed Tina.

[Allison Quinn]

Why not just tell us what O is :|
what is the O phase

"It's no accident that Female Os are basically irrelevant to keeping Humans going. Females just need to be willing to participate...and contribute the egg of course." If you're talking about sperm and eggs honestly how can you say females are irrelevant when their egg is half of the whole thing sperm can't do anything by themselves

[Marcelle]

Hi WAH,

I concede that there can be a sexual component to CDing for some and perhaps not for others. I have always had a fascination with lingerie on women and my wife indulged that wish even though she is not a sexy lingerie kind of gal (bless her ). So when I started dressing, I will admit the ability to wear some of that lingerie was shall we say O-kay .

However I am not following your Classical Conditioning logic. In classical conditioning an "conditioned stimulus (CS)" which is a neutral stimulus (i.e., Pavlov's bell) is paired with a an unconditioned stimulus (US) which is normally biologically potent (i.e., the taste of food). The US causes the unconditioned response (UR - i.e., salivation) and repeated pairing would cause the individual to evoke the UR (now the conditioned response - CR) with each presentation of the CS.

So if we apply CDing to this logic what is your CS? I am assuming it would be for the sake of argument lingerie or women's clothing in general. I am assuming your US is sexual arousal via masturbation with UR being the big O. So repeated pairing now causes what . . . I experience the big O every time I dress? I get sexually aroused just putting on panties? I engage in masturbation each time I dress?

If I were classically conditioned, I would be walking around sexually aroused the entire time I was dressed - I would have no choice because the CR is now programmed in response to the CS . . . sorry that dog don't hunt (or salivate in this case )

I am more inclined to believe yes we can get sexually aroused early as it new and exciting and allows us to explore a different area of our sexuality in an almost taboo kind of way. Some may continue to enjoy this feeling all the time, others not so much. Sorry to say, when I dress now it is simply that dressing. Even my choice of undies (sorry should save this for the what kind of panties are wearing thread ) have gone from lacy and pretty to cotton/micro fibre and practical.

So do CDers derive sexual pleasure from dressing . . . sure thing. Is it a CR linked to a CS . . . IMHO no.

Hugs

Isha

[Lucy_Bella]

Wild,
I can not speak for most on this forum ,in fact, I can only speak for myself and why I do what I do..Like many I started at a very young age and long before puberty,I've also suppressed my urges for many years during marriage ..Only to end up alone lonely and still dressing with little or no desires to change my life or give it up, although the thought crosses my mind daily..

Where would I be today if it wasn't for this curse? Happier? No ,when I'm not able to dress I become depressed ...More of a sociable person and out going with many of friends ? Yes probable and I have done that but mid night struck and it was time to turn into a pumpkin again and return to my closet resorting back to the Hermit I was meant to be..

When I dress it is sexually and everything I own in feminine clothing is tied to that .The material ,lace cut ,fit and color is all sexually related in enhancing the sexually arousal and feeling I get while dressing and the more I add to the experience that helps me continue this curse the more that addition becomes a must in the next experience .. Things like the hair or perfume anything that enhances the experience or makes it become more real..

Why do I do this? Do I want to become a girl? No ,not at all not even during the experience ( because I am at that time her physically but not mentally ) ..I am a sick and twisted individual that causes no harm to anyone but myself during these experiences ,or am I am? No !! I dress yes but not for the same reasons as many others may ..I have goals yes but not the same as many others do.. My experiences have grown over the years to last longer and longer because I have grown to enjoy them and somewhat accept them, it's just easier that way..

I live two separate lives and I try not to let the two conflict with each other and keep a balance of normality when I am not living out my experiences and they tend to go away for short periods of time ,sometimes months, but they always return ..