Women don't crossdress as frequently because men don't wear heels and dresses and makeup.
Women don't crossdress as frequently because men don't wear heels and dresses and makeup.
Saw a woman cross dresser today! She was wearing a man's shirt, tie, pants, shoes, and hairstyle. Her figure gave her away. She was conversing with a service tech. It didn't seem to bother him and of course didn't bother me. I've know several women who were gay and strait who hated dresses and preferred men's clothes. They wore them with impunity, had I worn the equivalent women's attire people would be talking at this late date.
Oh, I forgot, I do and people probably talk sometimes.
Thank you Eryn!!! Yes, being male comes with responsibilities and stress that can be difficult even for cis-gendered males, but for someone who is trans, and has a partial or complete female identity, this can be a total nightmare.Originally Posted by Eryn
Personally I think the gender binary created by patriarchy has created a nightmare situation for both sexes. Lots of cis-gendered women resented their roles back in the 60s, and still do in many parts of the world. Lots of cis-gendered men resent their roles today. Why does this happen? Becuase even cis-gendered men and women are not 100% male or female. We all have a little of the opposite gender's energy in us, and all of us have at least a small amount of desire to express the opposite every once in a while. If you're TG or TS, then sticking to gender binary can be a completely awful experience. And even if you transition, having to conform to the gender role of your true gender can still be difficult.
I think lots of cross-dressers have at least a partial female identity. I don't think we take on female names and try to pass as women just to wear women's clothes. There are some people who actually will happily be a dude in a dress. Either way, whether we're trying to pass as female or be a dude in a dress, there is lots of stigma to it.
I have a question for everyone, and maybe this is worth starting another thread. If you could just be a "dude in a dress" and use your male name, keep the beard, no wig or forms, and not be stigmatized for it, or not care if you're being stigmatized for it, would you do it? If you answer yes, then you're probably a male identified CD who would happily wear women's clothes sometimes. If you answer no, then you probably have a partial female identity. Even if you have a partial female identity, your core identity could still be male, which is different from being dual gender, bigender, androgynous, or a MTF TS.
I have one major issue. It's not being stigmatized for being CD, TG, or TS, it's not being clocked, it's men don't cry or men don't ask for help or men have to be macho or aggressive. My biggest issue is on a male privilege thread four months ago, I posted a viewpoint on male privilege that essentially stated that males and female both have advantages and disadvantages, and I got stomped on brutally by someone who told me that my viewpoint is that of a privileged white male. Just because I was assigned male at birth, it doesn't even matter if I identify as female or transition, I have no right to any opinion other than men have it FAR easier than women. This is essentially sexism in reverse. So if women do get the short end of most sticks, the one that any cis-gendered male or other male assigned at birth (including MTF TS) get is not being allowed to complain about how hard it is to be a man. At least cis-gendered females can complain how being a woman sucks and not get ridiculed for it. If men complain about their role, then you're labeled a chauvinist, insensitive, douchebag, pervert, creep, and at the very best, gay or sissy. God, I'm gonna talk about this in therapy tomorrow.
I want to add another analogy. California has the best weather in the world. People who live anywhere else would consider California, especially SoCal, to be paradise. Yet I hear far more complaints about the weather from Southern Californians. I once remember a TV show where a couple of cops from L.A. went to NY and it was raining and one of the NY cops called them L.A. sissies. As much as it bugs me about how L.A. people complain about the weather, and how L.A. people have no freakin idea about how bad the weather is elsewhere, L.A. people have every right to complain about the weather because to us 60 degrees and rain sucks, even though 60 degrees and rain would be called spring in other places. And for our best weather in the world, we have the worst traffic. Ask anyone who drove on the 405, 101, or other freeways today, L.A. traffic really does suck. So who has it worse, L.A. or everywhere else. We have our traffic, and other places have their weather. And we in L.A. love to complain about weather and traffic, as do people who live anywhere else.
P.S. Yes both men and women have to deal with weather and traffic. And both men and women love to complain about the weather and traffic.
Last edited by Michelle789; 04-15-2014 at 10:42 PM.
I've finally mastered the art of making salads. My favorite is a delicious Mediterranean salad.
Tinkerbell, I don't know if there's a valid answer to your question but I can attest to the fact that girls and women cross dress inadvertently, and have done it for as long as I can remember. I knew several tomboy girls as a youngster who wore boys jeans and t shirts, baseball caps and sneakers. There was a fad in the '70s where young women wore men's boxer shorts which have evolved into a panty style called boyshorts. One of my daughters thought it was cool to wear my navy jumper as a top when she was in school. Another daughter wore my flannel shirts and her brother's jeans on a regular basis. By the technical definition, that's cross dressing.
Perhaps we guys who wear women's clothes tend to be more effeminate than our counterparts and want to enjoy both sides of our personalities which is why many of us try to look and act as feminine as possible when we present as such. When women wear the clothes made for men, there is never much controversy or discussion, but if a guy chooses to wear a skirt instead of trousers, society has deemed him the be the abnormal one.
Luv andJill
Straight, into Fantasy Land
But, when the weather is bad or traffic is nasty and there is a man and one or more women in the same car, guess who usually gets stuck behind the wheel? Yep, it's the man who truly has to deal with it.
This applies even if we happen to be dressed!
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
Guess what, Tinkerbell? After much research, and careful reflection, I haven't got a clue! What I do have is the greatest respect gor GGs like you who care enough to ask - so stick with us, please!
If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!
What excites me in crossdressing (or one of the things that does that), is exactly the idea that I do what I am not supposed to. I find this very erotic. Women can do anything they want as far as dressing goes, as many have said in this Thread. The "illegal" is sexy.
The current wisdom is that this is not true. There are roughly the same number of F2Ms as there are M2Fs. Transsexuals that is.
Where do CDers get the idea that a preponderance of women are wearing male clothing????
I have a lot of female friends, 2 sisters and a mom not to mention aunts, a niece and many cousins, I've never seen one of them wear male clothing let alone try to look like a male while wearing male clothing.
Just because a woman is wearing pants does not mean she is CDing!!! She is wearing pants designed for women that she bought in the women's section of a store. Or at a boutique which only sells women's clothing.
Tink, I think you need look no further than the mal sex drive to find your answer.
Last edited by Aprilrain; 05-07-2014 at 09:31 AM.
Ok, I can't stand it anyyyyyyyyyyy longer. Time for me to come clean. It sure looks like there are many more MtF than FtM CDers doesn't it?
I mean, rumor has it, that there are a couple of other "mostly" MtF sites out there where all they seem to talk about is...
And there just doesn't seem to be hardly any FtM sites?
Actually I own and operate a bunch of them. It's just that these FtM CDers are a very private, "secretive" bunch of gals. UNike most "normal" ladies, they don't like to yak incessantly about stuff. Especially, if it involves any battery powered devices... They don't like to refer to what they do as Crossdressing... so I have had to get creative in naming these various sites. And NO, I am not allowed to simply give out such info. Disclosure agreements and such.
But what I CAN do is offer a few "hints" on how to find them. I know what you are thinking...
I can't personally accept any money but I can give you the names of certain Foundations that you can donate to. A mere 10 dollar "donation" sounds like a good round #, so just email me if you are interested and I can point you in the right direction.
Also, did I mention that "many" of the FtM ladies are actually LOOKING to date MtF Crossdressers?
For 10 dollars, it's a win/win situation.
Isn't it?
Of course it IS OK, if you wish to "donate" more.
And all GG are identical to you?
Many, if not most of the CDs on this site, at one time thought WE were pretty much alone in what we do. Or we thought there can't be that many others out there. Just because you don't see as many GGs crossdressing doesn't mean they are not out there. Plus there's the whole thing that GGs can wear jeans or men's shirts or pretty much ANY male clothing and no one really looks twice at it. There are women who show up at formal events in a Tux, it's noted as "interesting" but never as "scandal" even in the news. I've known women who have NEVER worn a skirt, they are always in jeans and boots - traditionally male attire. And you couldn't get those women in a skirt or dress at gunpoint.
As far as 'trying on my father's clothes', while some of us did try on Mom's clothes, it's because that was what was available. It's not like you can go down to the store in Irondale Alabama when you're an 8 year old male and pick up a package of hose. You won't just get funny looks, it will get back to your parents and then the belt comes out to "beat the devil out of you" because of course your super religious town believes you're sinning.
And as far as a "care free life of a male" - seriously? There are things that are EXPECTED of you when you're growing up as a male, that regardless of how you feel you are expected to perform. And if you don't do them (go out for the football team, go out for track, go out for hockey, etc - I could go on but the guys will know what I'm talking about) everyone thinks there's something wrong with you, and if that happens there's always a bunch of other guys who will meet you after school to beat the crap out of you because you're different (only happened to me a couple of times until I started taking a baseball bat to school with me, left it in my locker during the day and then took it home with me). Yeah, completely carefree, where everyone is accepting and life is roses. Not. You seriously don't have any idea of the pressures on a male in their teenage years. I wouldn't repeat that period of my childhood for all the diamonds in South Africa.
I'm sure it's not a bed of roses on the other side of the fence, but please don't think it was easy being a guy. It seriously wasn't.
~Mel
~Linebacker Melissa
I understand how you feel. I present as a male. In addition I realize that I am not a particularly attractive male so that makes matters even worse. In my heart I know I should have been a female. When I was younger still at home it was easy to dress up with my mom and my girlfriend and her friends. It was a fabulous time, even they had remarked that I had it easy where they had that special time of the month and I never had to worry. However after I left for my previous job there was no way I could ever dress up again. I tried to under dress several times, and had enjoyed every moment... Although now that I am older, retired from that lifestyle. Even with a supportive wife, and trying to present as female. Once I am dressed and look in the mirror, my dreams float away into never never land. At least I can under dress and have my moments in time.
It is so much easier for a GG to FtM regardless how attractive they are, no one will say anything or suspect. Let me retract that. Easy on the outside but not on the inside. Just hope for a good supportive group to be with.
As for being "Hormone free"? I cannot help or advise you. I have never thought of using chemicals to change my outward appearance. A friend of mine has been experimenting with it and I keep begging him to see a doctor and get some professional help with it, but he won't listen to me. What he has done has changed him physically and mentally to the point it has jeopardized our friendship even though 30+ years of friendship is at stake. I guess I can only offer that if you do decide to travel that road. Don't do it alone nor without professional help. Keep your support group close and don't hide anything.
@--}---
Michelle, this perspective makes total sense to me and I agree totally. I think I've struggled my whole life with being a sensitive man. I identify as a man, but I have feminine qualities. I think my interest in CD is sparked by this, but also by my life long admiration for all of the women I've encountered who are strong or beautiful, or both. I don't have a desire to be a dude in a dress. I want to be able to fully express the feminine side of my GM.
One problem with comparing MtF crossdressing with FtM crossdressing is that there really isn't any way for women to crossdress the way men do.
Western society presents a concept of "women" as a kind of consumer product, with men as the consumers. Women are expected to "beautify" themselves, to dress "sexy," to be desirable to men. To judge by the postings at this site, most MtF CDing is about men acting out this consumer product fantasy of womanhood -- sort of like when people go to Rennaissance fairs and pretend to be lords and ladies. They get a thrill from imagining they are what they desire. (Perhaps slighly OT, but a lot of posters also don't want to hear that the reality of being a woman is very, very different from the fantasy they're acting out.)
Society doesn't offer women a consumer product version of male intended for female consumption. They're mostly offered various options for being more desirable consumer products for men. Women's fashions are mostly designed to appeal to men, usually by displaying "the product" in the most flattering light possible, and the ones that aren't are usually pretty unpopular with the CD crowd. Men's fashions, meanwhile, are mostly designed to impress other men, not to show off the men's bodies or to make them more appealing products for female consumption. (The few fashions that do are aimed at gay men, or at least are assumed to.)
So what exactly does CDing offer women, besides possibly the opportunity to pass as male (and temporarily gain some male privilege)? Note that women who actually try pass as male, especially FtM TSs, face the danger of being beaten or killed by men if they are found out.
FWIW, my impression from other, more female-friendly sites is that the number of FtM trans people is in the same ball park as MtFs. Also FWIW, I've read complaints from FtM TSs that MtF TSs treat them pretty much in the ways that cis men treat cis women, so I would guess that they've learned to keep a low profile when MAABs (whether cis, CD, or trans) are around.
Last edited by Asche; 05-07-2014 at 07:24 PM.
During many years of people watching I have observed females of all types wearing baggy jeans, work boots, ragged sweat shirts, many of them with short hair and walking with a masculine stride. I doubt any of those women were ever looked upon as cross dressers by society as men are, but I would say yes there are women cross dressers, just not as prevailant as men
Luv and
Straight, into Fantasy Land
I buy into the recent advances in biological research implying that the interruption of hormonal processes in changing the fetal brain to a male is a strong contributor to the desire to express the femininity that was not purged. The is no eexactly equivalent process in fetal girls. Thus, there will be more M2F.
Excellent point! You see this everywhere. The idea that being a girl is somehow, "not as good." Boys are told, "Man up," and "Don't be such a girl," as if being a girl is a bad thing to be. So when a girl dresses like a guy, it IS seen as a "step up," which I personally find silly. But when a guy dresses like a girl, he's seen as somehow, not as good.
I wish these ideas would change, but I don't think they're going to any time soon.
Megan
^^ THIS.
You'll never hear a woman talk about her blue jeans and sneakers the way that CDers wax poetic about their "silky smooth legs encased in panty hose". Women do not get a thrill or feel euphoric when they wear the things that many of you in this thread ascribe to "dressing like a man".
Besides ... as a few people have already pointed out, most CDers on this site would not want to wear man-skirts specifically designed for men, like women wear slacks specifically designed for women. We cannot make a reverse comparison about the way that women dress in contemporary society and the clothes that CDers wear, it just doesn't work.
Reine
It has & always will be , in degrees, a male sexual thing. Whether it's for sexual gratification or the joy of dressing / looking feminine, the sexual component is always present . I truly believe that more men would be cd's if they would just lower their male armor .
I would defer to the thoughts of our ftm friends as to why they crossdress. Candidly , I have no clue as to what reason (s ) a woman would want to dress, look & feel like a man . I would not understand the sexual component of such dressing . In no way , shape or form do I believe that woman who wear slacks, dress suits , etc . are cd's. I agree with Reine & April that there is no sexual component for women who dress as such. Again , I would defer to our ftm friends as to their thoughts because I honestly don't know why a woman would want to dress, look & feel like a man. Peace, mel
I think this is additional indication that it is heredity rather than environment.
Mel, you just gave me one of those 'aha' moments, along with Reine and April.
FTM want to wear men's clothing because it gives them peace. I'd imagine this is the same for MTF TS. These are just their clothes and once on, they don't think about them again.
Crossdressers, on the other hand, feel euphoric and heightened. They think constantly of the clothing - how it feels, the sensations of the materials, the swish of earrings, the tap of high heels etc. Quite often when I read the descriptions here I feel exhausted. It must be like walking around on a 'high' all day. The only other time I've heard people talk this way, they were on drugs!
Perhaps it's back to the difference between male identified CDers and those with GD. Sex drive and euphoria drive the first group - peace and identity drive the second.
Thoughts?
Is it mostly a male thing? Really?!? Sorry, but I have to call shenanigans here... any GG who rocks jeans, sneakers and a t-shirt... a suit... her SOs or even her brother's clothes -- is technically crossdressing. It's just not seen as a social taboo for women to blur the gender line. It's usually seen as sexy or tomboyish or progressive... ;P Note exhibit A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6TzpjP2x7k
Also, I have to say that I do not appreciate the grand generalizations, Mel! Like any kind of spectrum, there are gradients. Similarities yes, but no absolutes. We are each unique individuals. Please do us ALL the courtesy of remembering that.
There is no sexual component for me when I dress. Perhaps when I was 13-16 but let's be honest -- EVERYTHING has a sexual component at that age. There is some gender play with my SO and THAT is exciting, but that is not necessarily tied to the clothes I am (or not) wearing at the time. Also, you are honestly kidding yourself if you do not see wearing "male clothes" as CDing, because it is, even if only in the technical sense...
My dressing -- being Wednesday, is an extension of my personality and an expression of that part of me that Identifies as female.
Last edited by Felicia Dee; 05-09-2014 at 02:21 PM. Reason: Additional thoughts
"I'm a work in progress..."
Women do cross dress, they just call it "boyfriend fit." Many women say they wear mens t-shirts and sweatpants because they are roomier.
Tinkerbell, this is an interesting question. Society, throughout history, has accepted or even applauded female-to-male crossdressers. Think about Joan of Arc or Mulan. Women dressed as men to have power, make a difference, and fight for their ideals. As women in American society has tried to have equal ground in business, politics, etc., they have dressed like men to do so. Remember power suits in the 80's and 90's? This clothing helped women been seen as equals in a male-dominated society. Women also cut their hair in "male" hairstyles to look less feminine. Especially when being feminine was seen as being weak, fragile, or silly. Dressing like a man allowed women to be accepted as strong, intelligent, and aggressive. So...women have always dressed like men to gain ground in social situations.
I'm also wondering how many lesbians and trans-men you've met...
I understand where you're coming from, but I think you have a lot of research to do. I don't think that men crossdress more than women. But as a society, we accept women dressing as men more easily...for the most part. But we still don't accept women who look like men. Gender issues are quite complicated in many societies and people who don't fit into socially-acceptable gender boxes are pushed to the outside of mainstream society. Which is fine with me. I like being with the outsiders.
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