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Thread: Normal is a Vanishing Point

  1. #1
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    Normal is a Vanishing Point

    Recent threads, correspondence, and conversations have me thinking about identity. Some of the questions that have cropped up recently are:

    Am I fooling myself? If so, how can others not see it? What does it mean to be a woman/man? What about stereotypes? And everyone's favorite ... what is the nature of transsexuality? Finally, what's the difference between gender vs trans identity?

    But the focus here is normalcy. More and more I see normalcy as the concept that ties these together. It's why discovery crises end, why stereotypes are irrelevant, why successful transitioners wind up leaving trans identity behind, and why there is so little transsexual community.

    Most importantly it's why identity seems to recede to a vanishing point. We talk about this in several ways, including acceptance, the calmness and changes in thinking after an extended period on hormones, chasing down rabbit holes in our psyches, reflection, and integration.

    They share a common characteristic - that the focus stops being identity per se and turns to living. That suggests a key concept: someone focused on identity is either still fighting themself, or is not transsexual.

    The sense of normalcy for anyone who has lived a reactive life, however, is disconcerting. The focus might turn to living, but you don't necessarily know how! The bit about fooling yourself and others comes in here. It's as if the drama and upset never happened. You start to feel like you have always been like you are now ... even though you know you have not. But recalling - feeling - like you used to becomes more and more difficult. How many times have you heard someone long post-OP say that they wonder if they really needed to transition (speaking about how they feel, not what they know), or that they no longer perceive themselves as ever having been any different?

    It really is normal to make decisions about your life, even fairly unconscious decisions. But without the driving pressure of a psychological crisis, a therapist's direction, a spouse's priorities, or even our own inner conflicts, it can feel oddly detached. This is one source of renewed wondering. "Maybe this isn't real…"

    Strange thought when you think about it. In other contexts, it would not occur to you to question making routine decisions. If you have children, for example, you might question your competence, but you would not question your role in this manner – i.e., whether you are crazy simply because you were taking care of your children. No, this is something that you only do to yourself when you're transsexual, because the nature of suppression is to deny yourself the right to be.

    To be normal – for a transsexual – is to not question your identity because you are firmly in the binary. And when that finally sinks in, you will eventually stop thinking about it. Gender identity vanishes with it. Confirmed, but "gone"!

    Last thing… I'm finding the circle of trans people with whom I identify drawing smaller and smaller. It could be another vanishing point – or you could be those whom I met in my dreams.
    Lea

  2. #2
    heaven sent celeste26's Avatar
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    A very important point. The difference between being and doing. A person can be doing everything they need to do and still not "be."

    But is there a point at which we leave behind us everything we went through while we are on the journey that is TS? Can or should we fail to support others on that same journey? I guess its up to each one of us to decide.
    Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. Mark Twain

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    I have never questioned my identity, only can I transition and still lead a normal life.
    A revelation to myself was that I have never led a normal life. So wrapped up in anxiety, low self esteem, body dysmorphia etc. Also all the secrecy. My sister-in-law said she feels strange that after all these years, she doesn't fully know me. That leads into another area of hiding personality traits, acting manly, for some even pursuing manly work or hobbies all to hide ourselves. That is not normal!
    I don't think we can ever lead a truly normal life (if such a thing exists). Even if I managed perfect transition, I could never be a mother to my own children.
    I'm still way of being able to give any sound advise, I'm relatively at the beginning.
    But what I have learned is that when you let go, let go of what you perceive you should be, accept you are transgender and that there is nothing wrong with that. Embrace being yourself, well I for one felt right.
    I'm full of doubt, but not doubt in who I am, only doubt in how I can make this happen successfuly. That doubt is driven by fear, fear of being different and that fear is nearly always far worse than the actuality.

    Someone asked me just before I came out to my family, what if you change your mind or transition isn't for you?
    My answer is, I am transgendered, always have been always will be. I want my family to know who the real me is. I could no longer go on living the lie, it wasn't a risk to me, the risk was doing nothing.
    Normalcy is a myth. Trying to achieve it drives us crazy.

  4. #4
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Questioning your identity is traumatic. Lots of "normal" people suffer all kinds of really difficult life situations and trauma, both physical and mental.

    However, to question your identity is to doubt that you exist. How fricking more existential can you be?

    And what's more, most of us are pretty rational, and on a purely rational basis, even on an intellectual basis where reality can be challenged, we KNOW we exist... except we cannot FEEL we exist... its very frustrating.

    And normalcy is kind of a goal for the pretransitioner investing in HER MALE life. We strive to be like all the other guys. But none of us know what that means. It's grasping at air.

    When you transition , you suddenly feel that you exist...and when you feel it for the first time, you don't really even know what it is..and its not something I can really put into any more descriptive words...
    But to say I feel normal does work as a way to describe it.

    I experienced what Lea described. I feel like I have always been "normal"... what a miraculous, adaptive brain!! I feel the same was about my srs...its feels normal..it feels like it was always this way.



    also, Becky I think your points are very well taken.
    You are smart to focus and separate out the doubt of who you are versus the doubt of whether you can successfully deal with who you are..those are totally different things and truthfully if you have really accepted yourself, I bet you'll find a way..

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    Quote Originally Posted by becky77 View Post
    I have never questioned my identity, only can I transition and still lead a normal life. ...


    Normalcy is a myth. Trying to achieve it drives us crazy.
    Do you think doubting your ability to live a normal life reflects at any level on questioning identity?

    Also, I don't intend "normalcy" to imply anything about perfection or living an idealized existence. Perfectly normal, everyday, run-of-the-mill cisgender people have problems, doubts, setbacks, etc. They do not, however, question their gender.
    Lea

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    Not really, I'm just being realistic. Because of my height some clothes I need to get from a tall range, because of my feet size not all shops currently cater for me, and there will be times when I'm reminded I'm not a gentic female, regardless of how far along the transition path I'm at.
    I'm just pointing out that I will always be different, happier but different. The hope is it becomes so regular, its normal to you.
    I don't see how this questions my identity, I know who I am.

    Normal is just something so regular, people no longer question it. I don't know if its so much normal we strive for, rather just not being abnormal?
    Last edited by Rianna Humble; 04-15-2014 at 05:16 PM. Reason: quote not needed

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    Asking about identity in light of questioning normalcy goes right to the heart of a trans person's concerns in the typical journey. At one extreme, think of those who can't get past thinking they are (or will be) freaks, are mired in negativity, or can't get by others' expectations. At the other end, benign concerns like clothing fit. I suggested, in asking the question, that doubts about one's ability to succeed reflect on lingering identity issues. What you responded with is pretty benign! The kind of doubt I meant, though, was in one's ability to achieve integration and an unremarkable life from a transition perspective.
    Lea

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    Normal is a pretty elusive state in my experience. I suppose many adolescent, teens and young adults goes through a period of uncertainty about who they are...often reaching the worst possible self assessment. It was worse for me, carrying a certainty that whatever I was, it was wrong. And it took a lot longer and a lot of help before I understood that being different isn't being wrong. It took even longer to feel comfortable with the knowledge that I was and always would be different. If normal exists for me, its not becoming a homogenized version of a Western male. Normal for me is feeling at peace with who I am and how I live my life.
    Last edited by kimdl93; 04-15-2014 at 07:09 PM. Reason: iPad typo
    Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.

    Eleanor Roosevelt

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    It's an impossible question. If you live in an intolerant place your experience will be different to someone else's. Equally, your ability to lead an unremarkable life, hence normal?? Would differ from person to person. Too many factors involved. We all think different, look different.
    Someone 6'6 with strong manly features would find it much harder than a petite feminine looking transexual. Unfortunately physical attributes do count when it comes to fitting in.
    Then mental attitude, that same 6'6 person could be very positive and accept their place in life and too them live a normal life.

  10. #10
    Silver Member Starling's Avatar
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    Well, I'm stuck. I know who I am, dammit, but in light of present circumstances I can't get there from here. Frankly, I don't think there's anything worse. The irony is, I had already told several people close to me that I had begun my transition (counseling, HRT, electro), thus overcoming the first big hurdle. Then I got tripped up by the limitations of my own body. I could see living full-time as a woman without benefit of surgery or hormones--i.e., a purely social transition--but for me, the single most glorious aspect of transition--aside from the fact, itself--was effect of estrogen on my sense of well-being. Without that I really would be a dude in a dress, and I wasn't just looking for a lifestyle.

    Years of secret cross-dressing had left me feeling totally anxious and depressed, and I had no interest in going public with that mess. The exhilaration of revealing my true nature to close friends was a brand-new experience for me. Obviously, that kind of high would have gone away amidst the practical concerns of transition, but the grace and calm would endure. I guess this is my roundabout way of recalling what Kaitlyn said a few days ago about fear of transition, and also of reiterating my belief that there is a lot more to worry about from not living as yourself.

    I keep an open mind, and if circumstances change, if I become a medical miracle, who knows what might ensue? But I've decided no longer to ask my friends to accept me as a woman until I can put my money where my mouth is.

    Lallie

    PS: I apologize for having gone so far afield here, but it really was the concept of normalcy that set me off. For me, it's a state I will probably never own, but one that I have tasted. And now, I don't know if I am better or worse off for having had my moment of feeling normal. At least it gave me clarity, and I suppose that's a value in itself.
    Last edited by Starling; 04-16-2014 at 03:54 AM. Reason: add postscript
    Time for a change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by becky77 View Post
    It's an impossible question.
    It may be an impossible question. The most interesting ones usually are.

    When these kinds of scenarios come up, there are usually a couple of different lines of response. One approach is social, maintaining that what you face and how you respond determines normalcy. The other is internal, which holds that external response and resistance is immaterial to one's sense of normalcy.

    Both are advanced here regularly. The former is often argued by those who have tried to transition more than once (whether or not they eventually succeeded). The latter by those who emphasize being prepared to lose everything ... but generally transitioned in straightforward fashion. (Broad brushes here)
    Last edited by LeaP; 04-15-2014 at 06:17 PM. Reason: Fixed quote
    Lea

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    How does one that is going through transition validate oneself? I cannot simply eliminate the events that I've experienced, as him, and proclaim to be all woman. What I have lived has shaped my psyche. I cannot reach a state of Normal. Even if I could afford all possible surgeries, it would still take magic to change me into a physical reproduction of a decent woman. I do not want to live, carrying a banner proclaiming my transformation. However, I have my hopes; I have my demons. May they temper each other, that I can humbly know Peace.

    Leah
    Be nice; It don't cost nothing.

  13. #13
    Silver Member Inna's Avatar
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    I dream the dream from which I awake to, dream the dream from which......

    Yep, reality is only as real as someone creating an illusion of reality, because nothing really exists....

    Ok maybe too deep, to the kabbalists it isn't, nor to the quantum mechanics but then no one really pays any attention.

    Gender is a mask, man or a woman, it is the suit we wear for the job. Wall street, well put on the suit, surgery room, put on the scrubs, woman, put on the stereotypes of society you live in.
    But there is a further depth to it as well, the wiring, the internal processing of stimuli, the how we take in the reality at hand.
    And this is where for the most TS the discomfort arises, this is where something is out of skew.
    Especially it is so confusing because without us living side by side with peers of then an opposite gender, we are unable to communicate what we are feeling, as we are bouncing our feelings of the manly wall.
    Once I broke through, and befriended many upon many girlfriends, I can easily confirm that what I felt throughout my life were feelings women feel. But these feelings do make sense to them, but to me back then while trying to be a man, those feelings were a source of confusion and frustration.

    Once transitioned it becomes quiet, sort of calmness about self. Now, do not misunderstand my words, it isn't about life solving it self, far from it, but now I do not fell like a foreigner in my own country. Still, emotions galore, and frustrations abound, yet there is that calm about being SELF, being simply ME, nothing less nor nothing more!
    Last edited by Inna; 04-15-2014 at 06:48 PM.

  14. #14
    Silver Member Kathryn Martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by becky77 View Post
    Normalcy is a myth. Trying to achieve it drives us crazy.
    Normalcy is my reality, it is not a myth at all.
    "Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)

  15. #15
    Silver Member Angela Campbell's Avatar
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    Yeah normal is my reality too. I still have some chores left but I am pretty normal.
    All I ever wanted was to be a girl. Is that really asking too much?

  16. #16
    Senior Member KellyJameson's Avatar
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    I think the mind has a hard time remembering suffering. For me the questioning of " Maybe this is'nt real" is an indication that the person has moved beyond the need to remember the pain.

    I can remember how I acted four years ago and one of the words I use to remember is "Frantic" versus the "calmness I'm feeling and living now" but I know my history is slipping into the past.

    Thinking about identity helps with with focus in the beginning and metaphorically it is following the bread crumps to escape being lost in the woods but identity is a thinking process, where living is a feeling process.

    Normalcy is a very powerful word because it captures the feeling of living without the "sickness of living abnormally"

    As a child normalcy is what I had when I had my identity before it was taken from me and I let it go, throwing me into an existentiual crisis of non-normalcy.

    This happens many ways. Certainly the violent reaction to puberty and its hormones is one most of us are familiar with but it also happens socially as not living or being seen truly.

    Living is a three dimensional experience, not one only of abstract thought.

    It has been my experience that very few transsexuals intellectualize transitioning because the compulsion to find "normalcy" leaves little room for the luxury of debate with others.

    You may find intellectual validation among others through sharing thoughts but normalcy speaks to the heart where identity lives.

    To find and experience normalcy you cannot discuss what identity is. You must live it to feel it.

    To talk about identity is to talk in the abstract but to live it is to feel it and that is where you find the "normalcy"

    Normalcy is being free of that tension that threatens to and is destroying you.
    Last edited by KellyJameson; 04-15-2014 at 11:35 PM.

  17. #17
    Member bas1985's Avatar
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    there is simply no choice about "what" I am, the role I am playing here, the "mask" as it has been said.

    The only choice is to resist and suffer or let go and be normal. Also "resist and suffer" is a valid choice, of course. Ts that delay transition until 50s, 60s are simply trying to resist and suffer. Nothing wrong with them. I think that many people resist and suffer, maybe the majority, they simply resist something else that gender identity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathryn Martin View Post
    Normalcy is my reality, it is not a myth at all.
    I meant the perceived normality we strive for, scratch any surface and everyone has their own issues and hurdles. I never meant we couldn't be normal, just that there isn't this one template we must fit to feel normal. If that makes any sense.

  19. #19
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    Am I normal? That honestly never crosses my mind any more unless a friend treats me weird or poorly. Even when that happens, it doesn't make me question my normalcy, rather it just makes me sad to think that people who love(ed) me have such a tough time accepting that I am normal. I am having a hard time with that because I love my friends, however, it's looking more and more like many of my pre-transition friendships won't survive. It's ironic and sad that I feel far more comfortable in the company of strangers because they see and experience me as I truly am, just a normal woman.

    I will take even the worst day now over having to live a life that is not my own. I think that's a sign of normalcy.

    PS. Regarding Kathyn's post below - How I lived before was not really living. Although it appeared that way on the outside, on the inside it was more about survival. Once you are past all that then it is simply gone. Poof is how it happened for me. I can barely remember how it was before.
    Last edited by gonegirl; 04-16-2014 at 04:22 AM. Reason: grammar

  20. #20
    Silver Member Kathryn Martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by becky77 View Post
    I meant the perceived normality we strive for, scratch any surface and everyone has their own issues and hurdles. I never meant we couldn't be normal, just that there isn't this one template we must fit to feel normal. If that makes any sense.
    But this is just a play on words, no? In a sense in what you say you contradict yourself. Normal is all about templates, standards. You know when people get sick and recover they might say "I am glad it is over, I feel like a normal human being again." In the context of transsexualism it means you fixed whatever defect you had and then poof it's all gone and behind you. It astounds me that no one seemed to pick up on the significance of Lea central sentence:

    ...that the focus stops being identity per se and turns to living. That suggests a key concept: someone focused on identity is either still fighting themself, or is not transsexual.
    This is a very bright mirror to look into, and I would venture to say that if you don't then you will never achieve normalcy post transition. To me saying I am transgender and will forever stay that way is like saying I am the common cold that has befallen me.
    "Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)

  21. #21
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    I have experienced what you are talking about.. it stops being about identity and turns to living. This is a hard pill sometimes.
    I have no doubt many people that will not thrive as women consider transition and some follow through.. these folk may or may not be transsexual
    The non transsexuals will perpetually consider transition and hopefully for them not drive themselves nuts doing it.

    Transsexual as a word is normally broadly defined. I don't get to pick what it means to another person

    You often say I am a woman with a past.. to me this is no different than saying I am transsexual. You can parse the words all you want.. the idea that your past included different body parts and a different social upbringing than a non transsexual cannot be ignored as a "concept".. there is a word for this.... its transsexual.

    I personally look at it that I can say I am a woman and I am a transsexual in the same sentence without any feeling that its incorrect or misleading.

    I am a woman and I am a transsexual
    I am a woman and I am a woman with a past.
    I am a woman and I had a penis and was gendered as male because of it.

    It's all the same thing to the average person.

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    Kathryn, if you no longer consider yourself transexual, why are you here?
    By your reasoning, you are no longer unwell, yet continue to visit the doctors.

    Transitioning doesn't wipe away your past. And that past had shaped me for good or bad.
    I'm still in the turmoil of transition, it will be some time before my life settles down to feel normal.
    Still loads to accomplish, but I'm calmer and far more optimistic because I know I'm me now. But knowing your own identity and letting others see that identity are two different issues.

  23. #23
    Silver Member Kathryn Martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    Transsexual as a word is normally broadly defined. I don't get to pick what it means to another person

    You often say I am a woman with a past.. to me this is no different than saying I am transsexual.
    Just a quick note about this, I am a woman with a medical history of transsexualism which is slightly different. Since my transsexualism has been overcome it is simply a medical history that I had. No more but certainly also no less. While we don't get to pick what transsexualism is, it's meaning clinically is well and quite narrowly defined. The broad use is more a result of the medical justification issue raised by gender variant persons in an attempt to gain broader acceptance for their condition, but that still does not make make it the same.

    Becky,
    the only reason I am here is because there are a small number of people that I would like to help mainly because I have walked the walk and not only talked the talk. I do the same for some young women where I live. The experience of those have walked the walk can be of valuable assistance as I can attest to when I went through transition. You can reject what I have to say like many here do, because I tend to hold a mirror up to people and that is not always received well but always intended to be supportive.

    How do you know what is or is not wiped out by transitioning? Or more poignantly what will come to you as a result of of transitioning? When Kaitelyn, Frances, Misty, Angela etc. and I talk about our experiences then we don't speculate but rather we know what we say.

    So more correctly, I am no longer visiting the doctors, I visit the sick that are similarly afflicted as I was. I share my experiences and encourage them to reflect and question so they may have the same success that I am now enjoying.
    "Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)

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    I think she's visiting the patients in the asylum, not the staff.

    It is true that your past is never wiped out. If I were talking about identity and normalcy as an intellectual exercise then any point of view might be equally useful, even formulations that seem mutually exclusive, as in I'm 100% man and also 100% woman.

    But I'm not talking about perspective or a point of view. I intend "normal" in the sense of how I now experience myself, not how I think about what has happened to me and what may come. And with it went the identity quest and the concern over it, and the (formerly) neverending attempt to find it, understand it, define it, and (importantly) control it. Turns out that it was always there - except that it is not an "it" at all. It's just me, and it seems gender is inseparable and incomprehensible in the end.
    Lea

  25. #25
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    If I can boil it down for you Lea then your expectations of transition should include feeling totally and completely normal.

    That's how I feel. That's how every successful transitioner that I know feels... almost as if you think gender? whats the big deal?

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