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Thread: Do you support Transgender rights?

  1. #101
    Pretty jockette LoriFlores's Avatar
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    I'm a very strong supporter of many rights including transgender rights.

    One of my favorite groups: http://transequality.org/
    Lori

  2. #102
    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacqueline Winona View Post
    Eryn, VERY few girls play on boys teams after the age of 9. At 13 and over, its really rare....
    And, even in California where equal athletic opportunities are law, VERY few genetic boys play on girls' teams, it's even more rare.

    ...And height has never excluded anybody from any sports team.
    That is simply not true. We both know that physical characteristics exclude thousands of students from playing various sports every year and citing a few extraordinary individuals does not change that. Every student, of either gender, who "didn't make the team" is an example.

    Every student who desires to do so should have the opportunity to participate in sports at the level that matches their ability. The current system sets up needless artificial barriers and this larger injustice particularly affects transgender individuals.
    Eryn
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  3. #103
    Senior Member Jacqueline Winona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eryn View Post
    And, even in California where equal athletic opportunities are law, VERY few genetic boys play on girls' teams, it's even more rare.


    That is simply not true. We both know that physical characteristics exclude thousands of students from playing various sports every year and citing a few extraordinary individuals does not change that. Every student, of either gender, who "didn't make the team" is an example.

    Every student who desires to do so should have the opportunity to participate in sports at the level that matches their ability. The current system sets up needless artificial barriers and this larger injustice particularly affects transgender individuals.
    Eryn, I like you, respect you a ton,so please don't take this personally, but the notion that height excludes anyone who has the desire is nonsense. Students don't make teams because they don't have the ability. Height helps, but is far from the only factor. Locally, three kids who play on baseball teams and have earned National Letters of Intent are 5'5" or shorter. Shoot, a girl I know very well played high school volleyball and is 5'3" at best. High school football has hundreds of examples of kids who aren't tall who can play the game.
    And of course there are very few boys playing on girls teams, this just became law on January 1.
    Lastly, there are plenty of opportunities for kids to play in rec level sports where their ability matches their participation. CSD's across the state offer plenty of opportunities. I see no good reason to take opportunities away from girls to play competitively (and your proposal would, as the sheer number of competitive boys would overwhelm the abilities of girls of the same age) to include everyone. More importantly, I asked several young female athletes tonight how they would feel having boys on their team if they could play on the boys and absolutely none thought this was a good thing.
    Last edited by Jacqueline Winona; 04-19-2014 at 12:28 AM.

  4. #104
    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    I cited height as an example and you chose to focus on it, but there are many other characteristics the deny individual students access to sports.

    There are some who fear that allowing TG individuals to compete as their desired gender will send boys flocking into girls' sports.

    These fears have as much substance as those who said that allowing TG individuals to use women's restrooms would flood the women's rooms with perverts.

    It didn't happen with the restrooms and it won't happen with sports.
    Eryn
    "These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
    "She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
    "Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]

  5. #105
    Senior Member Jacqueline Winona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eryn View Post
    I cited height as an example and you chose to focus on it, but there are many other characteristics the deny individual students access to sports.

    There are some who fear that allowing TG individuals to compete as their desired gender will send boys flocking into girls' sports.

    These fears have as much substance as those who said that allowing TG individuals to use women's restrooms would flood the women's rooms with perverts.

    It didn't happen with the restrooms and it won't happen with sports.

    Sorry you feel that way, I was just responding to the analogy presented, I don't know what else I could have discussed.
    The bathrooom argument, we've been through this one and I'll admit this is a tougher issue but again I don't see how it applies. Does using a bathroom prevent a female from using an adjacent stall? Don't see that. Uncomfortable to some, but outright preventing a female from using it, ever? No. But, allowing genetic boys to play on a girls team does take an opportunity away from a girl.
    HS sports only last a few years, and almost every team has roster limits. A spot on the team will be taken away from a genetic female if a genetic male is on a girl's team. In my mind, until HRT is underway, it is simply wrong to allow otherwise genetic males to play a competitive sport on a girl's team. Using HRT as the standard is much more fair to apply then the subjective standard our legislature picked.
    We may never agree on this, but know that I do respect your opinion.

  6. #106
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    Irene Wüst is a Dutch (female) speed skater. With eight olympic medals and many other successes, she is a great sportswoman and the single most successful Dutch Olympian of all time. This year in Sochi, she won five medals including two gold medals. However, with all other things equal, if she had to compete against the men in a single league, she would have won none. Actually, on distances like the 1000, 1500 and 5000 meter, all men (all 40 of them) were faster than the fastest woman, not because women can't train because they have to make sandwiches and take care of the kids, but simply because of raw physicality. If you somehow were to create two 'mixed' leagues out of some false sense of equality, you would get an all male super league and probably a secondary league dominated by men.

    I'm a defender of gender equality, anyone who read this week's thread about that knows that, but I'm not so sure how removing the gender division in sports (or at least in many sports) is going to give sportswomen equal chances. One thing that needs to be fixed is the attention level for women's sports leagues. Transgenderism in sports is a tough nut to crack though, probably a discussion worth its own thread.

  7. #107
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    I'm not out of the closet to "my male world" but I do go out in public when I can to stores, restaurants, venues etc.. Have I tried to go in behind the scenes in our community? Yes I have.

    Could I do more? Yes, I certainly could.

    Would I sign a government petition to help protect TG rights? Yes, within seconds I would sign it if we had one come around.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella View Post
    I do support rights of Transgenders....This is why I find it important ( with all due respect to the TG spectrum) that it separates it's self from the cross dressing umbrella.. I say this not to sound mean, not to sound above any spectrum ( because that's far from the truth) ..I say it to be fair to people with gender identities and the dire need for their own rights to function freely and unharmed is a bias society ..
    I think it has to broader than that as there is strength in numbers. Also, there are laws in many places addressing the issues of having your identification documents not match your presentation. I think it is important that we all move forward together.

  9. #109
    Senior Member Amanda M's Avatar
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    Interesting thread here. I have just been wondering what rights am I, as a cross dresser, missing out on. Nobody can tell me what to wear or when to wear it, where I may or may not go or do en femme or drab. I just have to be prepared to take the reponsibility for my actions - or am I missing something?
    If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!

  10. #110
    Senior Member Jenny Doolittle's Avatar
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    Hi Rogina,

    Yes is the answer in a nut shell, I support The HRC in both monetary contributions as well as attending some of their events. They are a very political organization that is working to pass same sex marriage laws across the country, but they also support TG rights as well. I also have written congressman and senators regarding pending legislation that would support similar LBGT positions.

    On other fronts I have been vocal in discussions regarding transgender people supporting their right to be different. I believe, if no one stands up and announces their position, how in the world do we expect to be treated with out bias.
    I hope everyone can be in a position and have the courage to support their own feelings.

  11. #111
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    Okay so I guess the question is how? How do you feel one should support rights of the T community..

    Where do you start on what rights that are needing support? Should all of the T community have the right to express individual gender without bias consequences?

    Yes if done properly and with respect to the individuals gender spectrum....But how do you go about doing that ? Because as a whole the communities gender spectrum is splattered all over the place..Some are full time some are intermittent and go back and forth and some stay at the gender matching biological sex.. Should everyone be forced out of the closet and present ? Should those who just wanna keep it private somehow unwillingly violate these new rights.. Could it be seen as a poke to those who openly express that some who do dress have no desire to be full time?

    Or should these rights be more about educating rather than forcing rights that already exist.. Educating that there is a whole spectrum of individuals with various levels of needs.. Like the closet cder who is caught will that person get a better understanding through education? I would think so ..
    I do not!! Claim to be an expert on any topic, when I post a new thread or reply on any thread my imput is strickly that of a crossdresser. Not to offend Gay people , Transexuals or any other life style, I am only commenting on one of my own.

  12. #112
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amanda M View Post
    Interesting thread here. I have just been wondering what rights am I, as a cross dresser, missing out on.
    The right to retain your job if you are "outed", the right to get a job and wear what you like (within the job's parameters). the right to use public facilities while you are dressed, the right to serve in the military and not have to hide, the right to go to any business that is covered under the Equal Rights amendment (yes they can refuse you service based on your appearance. They cannot based on race, ethnicity, color or gender). The right to not be harassed by law enforcement in certain jurisdictions. Just a few. Many "rights" are implied in most areas of the country but there are places where you would still be detained because of how you look or not have the benefit of law enforcement because of how you dress. There may be laws on the books specifically aimed at TGs (although usually not enforced). Here in Colorado a TG was denied health care. You may be required to divorce your spouse if you transition (but your question was on CD...so you may not care about that). You may be denied government documents (again a TS issue but we should be in the same boat rowing together). You could lose custody of your child.
    The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
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  13. #113
    Pretty jockette LoriFlores's Avatar
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    +1 for everything Lorileah just said!!
    Lori

  14. #114
    Member NoraTV's Avatar
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    Gender should be totally irrelevant when it comes to rights, whether legal or social.

  15. #115
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    The State of Washington tends to be more protective of "rights" than the federal constitution. Washington State law protects transgenders, gays and lesbians. It prohibits discrimination on gays and lesbians and transgenders, as well as discrimination based on perception. The laws allow for gender expression, and, that includes plain vanilla cross dressers. Basically, it comes down to allowing everyone to live their lives with equal legal protections. Gays, lesbians and transgenders fall under the enhanced protection of "hate crime" legislation.

    Of course, legal protection does not force others to accept gays, lesbians, and transgenders. And, on occasion there are issues that arise with MtF transgenders wanting to use a woman's locker room that is shared with minor children. Or, when a teacher returns from summer vacation presenting as the opposite sex.

    Frankly, relocate to Washington State.

  16. #116
    Junior Member FemPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorileah View Post
    The right to retain your job if you are "outed", the right to get a job and wear what you like (within the job's parameters).
    This is a tricky one. People are already being told not to wear their hair in a certain way so I'm not so sure anyone can win as far as a dress code is concerned.

    the right to use public facilities while you are dressed
    This just applies to cross-dressers, right?

    the right to serve in the military and not have to hide
    Can you add a little detail to this one?

  17. #117
    Member devida's Avatar
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    FemPossible asks for a little more detail on transgender rights and the military. In the USA armed services Don't Ask Don't Tell, the particularly noxious formulation of LGBT lack of rights in the military that oppressed us for years, has been three quarters struck down. You can serve proudly and openly as gay, lesbian or bisexual, though depending on where you are you may find it better not to be too open, especially given the stunning incidence of rape recently revealed. But if you are transgender, you cannot serve. In a fig leaf, you can get benefits, so maybe things will change. Interestingly if you get surgical gender reassignment surgery while on furlough you will be required to continue your contracted military career in your new gender. And I would note that if you cross dress you will be considered to be transgender.

    In all fairness the US armed services are just going along with DSM5, the diagnostic manual of psychological disorders which is very widely used by many institutions. There cross dressing is considered a disorder, a paraphilia - transvestic disorder. Again, the American Psychological Association is in some turmoil over all transgender issues including cross dressing. Many psychologists don't consider being trans or cross dressing disordered unless it is cause life disturbing anxiety. The military is probably just playing it safe. But this is a very clear case of the transgender population experiencing a discrimination that the rest of the LGBT umbrella has federal guarantees against experiencing.

    Hate crimes against transgender (or perceived transgender) populations are another. In many states there is no legislation protecting transgender people.

    As far as your statement FemPossible about hair. It really is not tricky at all. Any company can have a dress policy. As you know many require uniforms. Nobody is going to take away the right of companies to make their employees look ridiculous. All transgender rights asks for is that everyone be treated equally badly, and that exceptions not be made on the basis of gender identity or expression.

  18. #118
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    Transgender individuals are four times more likely to serve in the military than cisgender individuals.

    I've had friends who hid their CDing in the military - their lives were awful.

  19. #119
    Silver Member Rogina B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoraTV View Post
    Gender should be totally irrelevant when it comes to rights, whether legal or social.
    But it is not! And it isn't a "given"!!! So,equality means "equal opportunity for all"..Why is it so hard for people to understand that it presently isn't usually there?
    It SURE is my hair ! I have the receipt and the box it came in !

  20. #120
    Silver Member Rogina B's Avatar
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    "They" have to live through it,most of you don't!!

    Equality means the "same opportunity for all". We agree that labels are often meant in harm and discrimination in opportunity can be devastating. Those that choose to live out their life in their own gender must face this *hitstorm,because there is no running from it. There is no changing their clothes or their name back,nor putting the boobies back in the box! They are committed..just like the" ham and eggs story"The chicken is involved,BUT THE PIG IS COMMITTED! Housing and employment discrimination is real,as others have pointed out here. By helping end legal discrimination for the entire LGBT community,you are really helping your self,no matter where you fall on the spectrum,you are still there. Please do what it takes to sign on your support of Trans rights..it IS something that you CAN relate to.Thanks,Rogina
    It SURE is my hair ! I have the receipt and the box it came in !

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogina B View Post
    But it is not! And it isn't a "given"!!! So,equality means "equal opportunity for all"..Why is it so hard for people to understand that it presently isn't usually there?
    Because gender is a socially constructed concept. It is taught to us from the day we are born to be this way..When it is not and
    people need to understand that biological sex and gender are different ..
    I do not!! Claim to be an expert on any topic, when I post a new thread or reply on any thread my imput is strickly that of a crossdresser. Not to offend Gay people , Transexuals or any other life style, I am only commenting on one of my own.

  22. #122
    Member Ann Thomas's Avatar
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    I've not had time to read the thread, only the initial post. So, my post is only in answer to that.

    Yes, I actively support Transgender rights.

    I avoid doing business with companies that are openly LGBT phobic. Even if they have issued apologies after being outed, I tend to stay away from them.

    I stay away from the state of Arizona (it's the state right next to mine), and that includes taking aircraft flights that might layover or change planes in that state. I do that since they as a state are too anti-LGBT in their parade of bills in recent history.

    I write letters to people who support LGBT causes, encouraging them.

    I have been writing letters recently to those opposing LGBT rights in any way. When I do, I include as much science as is reasonable, while trying not to bash their religion if possible. However I do make it clear that my creator made me this way - and that's pretty easily proven as both my dad was trans and my son is trans, and we hid it from each other most of our lives.

    I support same sex marriage, as that ultimately can affect many of us that are born one gender, and change that to validate our feelings. We may be attracted to what then becomes the same gender as we have become, so therefore in the eyes of the law, it's a same sex marriage. We do not need to have our rights violated: to reduced income taxes; both parents listed on a child's birth certificate; both spouses having parental rights; and being able to accompany our spouses into the emergency room at the hospital. I enjoyed those rights as a married man when young, and those rights should not be abridged just because I have to change gender later in life.

    I work at a blue collar union job, so I'm surrounded by people of all political backgrounds, and they are vocal. What I've had to do is reason with them and show them LGBT people are not evil, nor do I have an agenda that would deprive them of their rights. I've had to show some of them on a daily basis that what they hear on right wing radio and tv broadcasts is not always true. I try to show them that what anyone hears on any radio or tv show is advertising dollar driven, so people will say whatever it takes to get viewers or listeners. (My dad was on the editorial board of a major daily newspaper back in the 1960's and explained to me in detail how media works. He was also a closet CD.)

    I've worked with our union president (we're part of AFL-CIO) on including transgender rights protecting verbiage in our union contracts here in Southern California. We are one of the first unions nationwide to have done so. Currently I'm the only transgender member in our local union, so it's been both an honor and a challenge to be involved at the beginning like this.

    I also try to keep in touch with certain US Senators I have gotten to know over the years, and dialog with them regarding this and other issues.

    So, yes, I'm active and try to do my best as an individual to do all I can behind the scenes to help us all out.

    Tally ho!

    Ann
    Last edited by Ann Thomas; 04-20-2014 at 12:49 PM.

  23. #123
    Silver Member Rogina B's Avatar
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    You are doing a great thing Ann Carpenter! Keep it going!
    It SURE is my hair ! I have the receipt and the box it came in !

  24. #124
    Member Taylor Ray's Avatar
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    I have always been interested in political philosophy, but I am not an "activist".

    When I was in graduate school for psychology, many of the other students were critical of me for not being an activist. I struggled long and hard and considered the topic very seriously for several years.
    I was finally able to accept who I was.

    In my professional life I fight for the rights of all of my clients. My philosophical viewpoint advocates for every individual to be able to express their authentic selves, even if that individual has a different religion or is a member of a different political party than myself.

    Every human being is a unique expression of a mysterious cosmic process that combines body, mind, and soul.

    Yes!!!

  25. #125
    Shoe shopping shrew natcrys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ann Carpenter View Post
    Lots of good stuff by Ann
    Just wanted to say thanks! If a lot more people would conduct their business and actions this way.. a lot more would be accomplished, I'm sure of that!
    │ Fashion and science geek!

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