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Thread: Do you know the 6 categories...Yikes!

  1. #1
    Fishers by Indianapolis switcheralso's Avatar
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    Do you know the 6 categories...Yikes!

    I was talking to a friend about my C/D and he informed me about Harry Benjamin. I appreciate Harry working hard on the 6 categories but I might fall into TV1, TV2, TV3, TS4, TS5 and TS6...I think there are truly a infinite rage between the categories. What do you think?

    http://harrychart.goiar.f-m.fm/Origi...ginalChart.jpg
    Last edited by Tamara Croft; 04-23-2014 at 12:07 PM. Reason: img tags removed, picture too big re forum rules and hot linking is not allowed
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  2. #2
    Member jackie_p's Avatar
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    Well, its not binary but it is still too rigid. I agree that there is a whole spectrum of individuals in between
    these categories that Harry just tried to lump into bins.

  3. #3
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
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    Heidi - I think your typo might prove to be prescient...

    Quote Originally Posted by switcheralso View Post
    I think there are truly a infinite rage between the categories....
    Now we have labels in categories on a TABLE! Yikes indeed!!

    I guess Harry did his research and has developed some nice boxes for us all to drop into...

    Now, I'm just ducking behind this sofa here and we'll see how much collateral damage I can avoid....

    (We should be able to fly red flags around the outskirts of threads like they do at the ranges when live firing...)



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    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    I had one but the wheels fell off . We are who we are, charts notwithstanding. If someone wants to try and categorize that let them knock themselves out I say.
    Second star to the right and straight on till morning

  5. #5
    Silver Member stephNE's Avatar
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    You girls said it - YIKES!
    Stephanie

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    Everybody thinks they need their own special category. Some will not be happy no matter what you call them.
    All this does is make people afraid to talk about it in case they use the wrong silly word.

    Remember that you are unique, just like everyone else.
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  7. #7
    Fishers by Indianapolis switcheralso's Avatar
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    Katey888 Thank you for pointing out my typo...It did make me smile and laugh out loud...
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    0 to trans in 60 seconds! Donnagirl's Avatar
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    And the conundrum continues... Definitely YIKES!

    I doubt I will have the stability to ever be categorised... The roundest peg in a world of square pigeon holes....
    Call me Donna, please

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    I had Cable TV ( TV1) but now have satellite Dish( TV2) and and much happier.

    Relieves my sexual tension, making libido better .lol....WTF????
    Last edited by Megan70; 04-23-2014 at 07:02 AM.

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    The Sex Orientation Scale (SOS) was Harry Benjamin's attempt to classify and understand various forms and subtypes of transvestism and transsexualism in biological males, published in 1966. It was a seven-point scale (with three types of transvestism, three types of transsexualism, and one category for typical males); it was analogous to the Kinsey Scale as it relates to sexual orientation, which also had seven categories. Much like Kinsey's understanding of sexual orientation, Benjamin understood the nature of gender identity and gender expression not as a discrete scale, but as a spectrum, a continuum with many variations.

    [...]

    Benjamin noted, "It must be emphasized again that the remaining six types are not and never can be sharply separated."


    Source: Wikipedia

    Case closed?

  11. #11
    There's that smile! CarlaWestin's Avatar
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    I was going to sheepishly report where I scored on the TV scale but, of course, the chart clinically and stupidly leans toward curability. The predisposition that TVism is something to suffer from is just ignorant and insulting. But, what else would you expect from the amazingly edgimacated psychobabble clowns.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zylia View Post
    [I]The Sex Orientation Scale (SOS) ...published in 1966. ...

    Case closed?
    Yup. Closed. Freude is pretty famous but NO ONE follows his nonsense science any longer. 1966 was the Jurassic epoch, right?

  13. #13
    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Back in the 1960s Harry benjamin was one of the first (if not the first) medical practitioners to take cross-dressing and transsexuality seriously and not treat them as a mental abberation requiring electro convulsive therapy or worse.

    He tried to systematise the support and treatment where people wanted treatment and his scale was a major step forward in developing standards of care. His work is still used as the basis for the care standards adopted by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health. Whilst understanding has evolved, we would be wrong to dismiss his work as stupidity or as ignorant.

    Of course, you may be amongst those who would prefer the previous answer - ful frontal lobotomy.
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    It's definitely not stupid or ignorant, but those who try to interpret his work, including the topic starter, must understand that even Benjamin himself believed that gender identity for biologic males is a continuum rather than six (or seven) distinct categories. The Benjamin types are archetypes (based on the understanding of sexuality and gender of the 1960s), not definitions.

  15. #15
    Silver Member I Am Paula's Avatar
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    Please girls, remember this is ARCHAIC. Harry Benjamin started writing this chart in 1966, and was dead by 1986. No scholar or Doctor is using it anymore.
    Categorizing transgenderism is impossible. Use the chart as a bit of a parlour game, or on a journey of self discovery, but remember there's way more to it, and you may well find yourself in many categories, or none, or two different ones, at opposite ends.
    We all have to thank Harry Benjamin for getting the ball rolling, but remember that newer and better research is available.

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    Whenever a member of this site brings up an issue of "categoraization" or "definition" there are howls of protest that we cannot be described that way.
    Knowledge advances in discontinuous steps and categorization is one way of trying to analyse a suite of complex phenomena and some stand the test of time and use and others do not. Categories can be misused and they often fall by the wayside as new understanding comes along. Absent a thorough biological theory of the origin of sexual behaviours, analysis is just one way of trying to gain understanding.
    In botany the Linnean categories were used and were found very useful to sort out the huge amount of information. The advent of DNA has shown that many plants have been wrongly assigned. New understanding has allowed better explanations and better sorting and categorization.

    One day, the same will happen to our understanding of human behaviour, including sexual orientation and feelings about one's gender. Until then, we have to manage with things like Benjamin' s categories. They are just a way of trying to unravel and understand something that is very complex and will have to change to accommodate new knowledge, so don't get mad at him or his analysis. Do get mad at those who misunderstand and misuse such work.

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    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    I thought TV3 was a good channel to watch in the UK, I notice you do not mention TSA.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katey888 View Post
    ... Now we have labels in categories on a TABLE! Yikes indeed!!
    Katey . . . LOL Not even going to touch this one . . . I think I'll just go make some soup

    Hugs

    Isha

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    Full Geek Status Adriana Moretti's Avatar
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    Zylia for class president !!!

  20. #20
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    This is very interesting. I was actually looking for some categories of cross-dressing last night, so this is very timely. I was looking for it in terms of the word Transgender. But I think that word came later than this chart? I also appreciate looking at this in a scientific way. It's is true this is old and outdated but it's work was ahead of it's time, as Rianna has pointed out.

    The variations on the scale are very limited and it does not appear to take into account an androgynous presentation, anything non-binary, a note about double personality. But with that said I fall into Type three, more or less. Parts of what are said are wrong but on the whole it basically works for me.

    If anyone knows of updated work I would be interested in links.
    Last edited by sanderlay; 04-23-2014 at 11:08 AM. Reason: that to than (sentence 4, first paragraph)
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    Although Harry Benjamin's scale is indeed out of date, you believers in modern science need to keep a few things in mind:

    1. The most obvious missing elements from his chart, FTMs and gender queer were pretty unknown in 1966.
    2. Benjamin was a genius - his research and inspiration to try cross sex hormone therapy to treat transsexuals was ground breaking. The realization that the minds of TS individuals are gendered indelibly, and that the only treatment is to make the body conform to the mind hasn't been matched in the subsequent 50 years.
    3. The developments of SRS, and FFS are really the only two medical developments that have happened for us that are in the same ballpark as Benjamin's development .
    4. Most of the subsequent research on TG folks has frankly been shit. That's the most charitable way to talk about it. Most of it ignores the CD, unlike Benjamin.
    5. Although flawed, Benjamin's scale is still kinda useful, and pretty damn good for 1966. Compare with Blanchards theory of AGP from the 80's. It should take you about 5-10 minutes in a typical TG support group to find multiple people who don't conform to that theory at all!

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    OMG not this sh&% again.

  23. #23
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    5. Although flawed, Benjamin's scale is still kinda useful, and pretty damn good for 1966. Compare with Blanchards theory of AGP from the 80's. It should take you about 5-10 minutes in a typical TG support group to find multiple people who don't conform to that theory at all!
    would that be the same thing you could say about the Corvair in 1966? Leeches were pretty damn good in 1900. Does anyone in the medical therapy side use this? Time we moved ahead. When do I get to be a "true". I say we throw both them out and start a CD.com scale (the first one who actually does that will get deleted).
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    Gold Member Read only Rachael Leigh's Avatar
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    I guess for me I'm somewhere between type 2 and 3. Kinda interesting

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    Harry lost me with his "cure" references in transvestite categories.

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