It felt nice, andOriginally Posted by Tinkerbell-GG
Tink's Thought of The Week:
So my first question is: Why, at such a young and impressionable age (most here were children, I believe) did you ignore all the social cues that it was wrong and kept dressing anyway?
Second, do you think it's possible you kept crossdressing because it was considered socially wrong?
Are you rebels??
Yes, of course, something "forbidden" is always more attractive.
"Normal is what you get when you average out the weirdness that everybody has." Quote from my SO
Normal is a setting on a washing machine, or another word for average.
The fact that I wear a skirt as a male should not be taken as a comment on what you do, or do not wear, or how you wear it.
Confucius, Thanks for sharing this theory! Every since my husband has come out to me, I have felt that that there must me something with early experiences and brain development that makes this come about. I teach early childhood education at a college and because the brain is developing at such a rapid rate in the first three years, so many of our early experiences can affect us for the rest of our lives. At the same time, two people can experience the exact same things at the exact same time and react differently. I think this explains Tink's questions about why some boys can experiment with "female" clothing and not have any future reaction to them, and some can't.
Wifeofjenniferathome
Last edited by Wifeofjenniferathome; 06-13-2014 at 11:27 AM. Reason: addition
Answer to #1: I kept crossdressing because the drive was so strong, even in the face of ""it's wrong".
Answer to #2: no, there are lots of things society sees as wrong, but I don't rebel in those areas.
I crossdress because there is some mysterious internal drive to do so, and it seems to overwhelm the reasons not to.
For those who say they never felt their CDing as wrong, the vast majority nevertheless did it in private behind a locked door. I guess the explanation for that is: "I don't think it's wrong, but others do so I do it secretly".
My first experience with wearing women/girls clothing was at about age 8. Somehow, I knew that it was not something that a boy should do. However, the pleasure, thrill, whatever was so strong that I continued to "dress up" no matter what. I believe that the "pleasure receptors" of my brain were so stimulated by these experiences that I would go to great lengths so repeat the experiences.
I did not continue crossdressing because it was socially wrong. I continued because I loved it!
I am definitely not a rebel.
Hugs, Carole
That one is easy. I didn't ignore society's cues. I didn't dress for five decades because I had been taught by society that dressing was morally wrong and perverse. That didn't mean that my interest in the feminine lifestyle went away, just it was pushed to the deepest part of my consciousness.
The best way I have to explain this to a GG is to imagine a world where gourmet food was everywhere. Half of the population walks about enjoying delicacies, smelling the aromas, savoring the tastes, discussing them among themselves, etc. Dining is an integral part of society and those that dine have exclusive connections with each other that non-diners aren't allowed to have. You, as a child, reach for a treat and a adult hand slaps yours. NO! This isn't for non-diners! Shame on you for even thinking of tasting good food! Your kind only gets to eat oatmeal. On special occasions you are allowed to add a bit of sugar to it, but most days it will be plain.
You continue on in life. People around you continue to enjoy their gourmet treats. You smell the aroma and imagine what it would be like to have a taste, but you know it is morally wrong to have those thoughts.
One day, you are in the kitchen and there is nobody else around. There are trays of treats all around you. What would you do?
No, I was desperate to be accepted and would do just about anything that society demanded. It was only after I became more mature and sure of myself that I realized that time was fleeting and that my ability to express my being in my own way was important. The people who define societal norms are only interested in maintaining their own power through conformity, not in my situation. I will express myself as I wish no matter how they, or their minions, feel about it. The people close to me are the people who count and they are supportive of my needs and desires.Second, do you think it's possible you kept crossdressing because it was considered socially wrong?
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
I would never question your personal experiences and as you have said here, your husband did feel this way, but for many of us we had some sort of "electrical" connection the moment we tried on our first item of womens clothing. This worked for me as I experimented along even with things as mundane as my neighbors sneakers! So there was no wrong feeling weening period before it felt right, it just always seemed exactly right, from the start. I think most boys just don't get any particular reaction from the try on session and just blow it off like anything anyone isn't particularly interested in.At some point, boys realise these are not their clothes and they feel wrong wearing them. My H felt this, yet he continued anyway. I've read many here saying they knew it was wrong, they felt it was wrong, yet still they continued until one day wearing the clothes felt right.
In so far as the clothing representing our mothers or women in general and all of that, Confucius mixes science with speculation and I just can't get on board with it.
I have used the idea of being a rebel as an excuse to wear womens clothing before, many years ago, but internally it is not about society, but me on the inside.
Hey, Tinkerbell! See my signature - some part of me gets a thrill when I 'get away' with something. When I was young, it seemed to me that I _always_ got caught whenever I did something I wasn't supposed to - and my brothers almost _never_ got caught and it just wasn't fair! So when I dress and get away with doing something that is 'forbidden', it is a WIN for me!
Deedee
It's not wrong... but it is forbidden!
Even thou i knew it was wrong and the guilt i felt after doing it the urge was just way stronger .Believe me i tried everthing to quit but in the end it was just better to accept it
I have a hubcap diamond star halo
T- I really enjoy your thought provoking threads. Looking back to my early childhood, I can see now that I had some feminine traits. My 1st real feeling of I want to wear that came at 17. In some ways a late bloomer, and it was a few years after until I had tried on any women's clothing. Those early times from 17 and early experiences with women's clothing, maybe a half dozen.... guilt, shame, disgust at myself, secrecy. Those experiences do not describe everyone on this board, but probably from an early age, the largest group. Those are not the emotions of someone who is a rebel. Those who are rebellious will want it to be known, to flaunt it. Now, even those who do put it out there for whatever they are rebelling against or about, they have to like or feel comfortable about what they are doing. The younger public CDers do enjoy dressing and I do not discredit their CDing anymore than anyone elses, but for the many of us who have lived in shame, guilt, suppression and secrecy, rebelling is not likely a reason. I tried so hard to purge the desires and emotions. I prayed it would all go away and I could just be a normal guy. Hell, sometimes I still do. Give me the blue pill any day please. I cannot speak for all here but I am sure many would say that it isn't out of rebellious desires to CD.
Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned
Good Question:For me I completely thought it was wrong when I was young and trying on my moms "stuff". And for a long time I hardly even gave cding a second thought,however as I grew older and my relationships changed,so did my desire to dress CHANGED. As Roxie emerged I realized that she was a big part of my life and in my eyes Its who I am. As a lot of this is still new to me ,Im so looking forward to see where this takes me,its the right thing for me .
P.S. Roxie is a rebel
And yet there appear to be fairly clear medically documented cases of an inherent gender image defined at birth and unable to be altered by hormonal or psychological / upbringing, the most famous being David Reimer (The biography / documentary book "As nature made him" is worthwhile having a read). Perhaps early childhood experiences actualise a predisposition but I think the gender identity exists at / prior to birth.
Last edited by Kate T; 06-13-2014 at 10:00 PM.
Not a rebel, dressing is socially and morally wrong.... That is an upbringing thing like stealing is wrong.
I thought maybe it's wrong when I was about ten.
Work on your elegance,
and beauty will follow.
Hi Tink,So my first question is: Why, at such a young and impressionable age (most here were children, I believe) did you ignore all the social cues that it was wrong and kept dressing anyway?
Second, do you think it's possible you kept crossdressing because it was considered socially wrong?
I don't know that I honestly have an answer for your first question other than it just felt right. I took a lot of shaming, dehumanizing, and physical punishment for wanting to crossdress when I was young. It took much, much less to stop me from doing other things as a kid, so why was this desire so persistent in the face of such objection? I don't know other than to say that is how my brain is wired.
As for the second question. Yes I do realize it is considered socially wrong. That is why I have tried to suppress it for most of my adult life. I am just getting to a point where I am tired, and getting to a point where I don't care what societal objections are. Am I am rebel by nature? Definitely not. But I am independent in almost every sense of the word. I don't usually feel the need to follow the heard to be accepted. I'll follow the heard sometimes because it makes sense or its just easier, but I usually go about life doing my own thing in my own way. Not to make waves, but just because I don't feel the need to do what everybody else is doing.
-Millie
The glass is neither half full, nor half empty. It is twice as large as it needs to be.
Until I was over 50, I never tried on women's clothes out of "curiosity" or for any other CD reason.
Here's the reason I didn't:
From the time I can remember being me? Maybe age 4 or 5? I never thot about trying on women's things! Not once did the thot enter my mind. Any more than thinking about trying to fly or turn into a starfish.
While I won't quarrel with your stats about young boys trying on women's things, I'm suspicious why they would? I saw the clothes my dad wore and what men wore on TV. I wanted to try on his riding boots, shooting gloves, and long overcoat and hat. Wear a fireman's uniform. And, I drove my mom nuts until she made me a cowboy outfit like the ones the Lone Ranger and Hopalong Cassidy wore. I have pics of me at about 5 in that outfit that I still remember wearing!
Why would a boy want to try on women's things unless he wanted to look like a woman? Why would he even think of it? I certainly didn't until late in life.
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
I think that anyone's personal recollection of their five-year-old selves should be taken with quite a few grains of salt. I think it was simply the excitement that kept me going, but maybe that's just projection. Part of that could be the 'forbidden' aspect. I remember I was pretty self-aware of not being perceived as 'too girly' for fear of being 'outed'. Perhaps that's the thing that kept me in the closet.
Hey Tink,
What I remember is that I was taught it was wrong. Boys do this, girls do that. Nevertheless, kids are curious and try things. Heck, they even eat dirt out of curiosity. My first 3 decades or so of life, then, I dealt with the wrongness pangs of guilt. At some point I decided to be OK with me and just let that completely unexplainable CD thing have it's place in my little universe and move on.
BTW, I'm not full-time, don't want to be, don't want to transition, etc. I enjoy my man side, too.
The theory makes sense to me but the OP believes that it's common for boys to try on female clothing and that a large percentage of them will never become crossdressers later in life. Once it's established that it's wrong, they stop.
Maybe you can tell I'm going back 50 years. Back then boys wearing tutus wasn't encouraged. Psychologists back then suggested parents not let their boys wear girl's clothes. That's probably why nearly everyone on this board did it in private.
Things have changed if your sisters and friends think it's funny to see their boys try on female clothing. They're probably unaware their boys will become CDs later in life. Continuing to wear women's clothes from an early age isn't common, but it's common for the behavior to return later on.
Last edited by Lorileah; 06-14-2014 at 01:37 PM. Reason: merged consecutive posts. try and merge posts with edit when you post so close together thanks
"You're the only one to see the changes you take yourself through", Stevie Wonder
Tinkerbell ,
I had to think very hard if I thought it wrong right at the start the drive to do it was so strong it overpowered everything. It started at 9 with a swimsuit because in my mind the shape must have represented the body of the GF I had at that time. Unfortunately it induced my first O which at the time I didn't know what had happened but that locked girls-Cding-sex in my brain. After that point the guilt started not because I was wearing the clothes but because of the sex I wanted more . I certainly didn't continue Cding because it was socially wrong, it actually felt right to want to share with a GG because of the closeness.
Confucious,
I must be different but I have vivid memories of much earlier than 7 years. We lived in Malta in my early chidhood and can remember the house layout , the street layout places where we use to play.
Last edited by Teresa; 06-14-2014 at 01:19 PM.
There is a fallacy here. The reason boys stop wearing clothing is because they are TOLD it is wrong. Not that it feels wrong. It feels like clothing but society has labeled the clothing as belonging to one gender over another. If your supposition was true many native tribes around the world would not have their males wearing sarongs or other types of wraps. Boys feel it is wrong for the same reason they feel it is wrong to play with dolls or like music over sports. As a popular Broadway song stated "You have to be carefully taught". The shame is a learned response
If men's field hockey wore the same uniforms as women's and it was a required part of the game, how many male field hockey players would quit? None because it would be "normal". So saying that most boys don't do something because it "feels" wrong is...actually wrong. This is not saying that boys don't find that girl's clothing isn't uncomfortable. They may very well feel that way wit the fit or style or color, but that is a personal preference, similar to how some women will only wear yoga pants.
When we have children in any society, we start conditioning them to certain things. Some are good like don't touch a hot stove or look both ways before crossing streets, But other conditioning occurs also like "you can't do that because I said so" You start pointing your child in a direction. Good morals, being polite but we also point them in directions that make absolutely no logical sense. Like why is a skirt provenance of females? It isn't in some cultures. Why is it that women are taught to be subservient? There are maternalistic cultures where women are in charge. These cultures survive just fine. Shame is a learned response, one where we respond because we are told we are wrong in some manner. If a child were raised without sexist learning, pink/blue, skirts/pants/ football/cooking you may see a whole different result that what you see here. There are a myriad of reasons TGs dress as they do. Sexual gratification and the subliminal things that are tagged along (mostly learned again), comfort, style and looks...all reasonable and logical to the person doing it.
I am a rebel. I am a rebel because when something is correct for one side but not the other, it is wrong. People are equal, not some more equal than others. That too is a learned response. So yes I am a rebel.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
Hi Tinker
Q1, (answere) When I was 4 I saw that yellow dress hanging there, and I just had to try it on, as soon as I put it on I felt I belonged in it and I couldn't see anything wrong with wearing it. But for some unknown reason to me, I just knew I had to hide this about me and I still hide it!
Q2(answer) no! I kept dressing because I felt that I belonged in the dress! I don't get to dress that often, when I do dress I feel all my planets align and I'm me?
Adelaide
I was going to say rebel, but.....I really don't know. I guess it was just different. I've always questioned the norm of anything. I don't know if that's the reason I dress or why I dress. Great question!
Hi Tink.
You ask
I am happy that you qualify each of your questions with a reference to social norms. I assume you understand that social norms are always in a continual state of change and they change because of social, cultural, economic, and political reasons that have nothing to do with childhood development. Social norms at any given time are purely a response to these pressures. Cursory reference to the movement in acceptability of women wearing pants proves this.Tink's Thought of The Week:
At some point, boys realise these are not their clothes and they feel wrong wearing them. My H felt this, yet he continued anyway. I've read many here saying they knew it was wrong, they felt it was wrong, yet still they continued until one day wearing the clothes felt right.
So my first question is: Why, at such a young and impressionable age (most here were children, I believe) did you ignore all the social cues that it was wrong and kept dressing anyway?
Second, do you think it's possible you kept crossdressing because it was considered socially wrong?
Are you rebels??
Your post is not clear on whether this is a matter that personally affects you, or perhaps one of your friends. I am going to assume that it does. Forgive me if this is just an abstract question.
Gender identity, on the other hand, along with sexual orientation and, actually sex definition as male or female itself, all reference internal psychological and biological issues. Please do not, for the health of your child, muddle the difference. If your child wears clothes that are not usually associated with his or her sex and gender despite social pressure to conform the odds are small that this is a rebellion against the enforcement of gender by social institutions. It may be a rebellion against you, in that your child may be recognizing a source of anxiety on your part and in the unending argument over power that children have with their parents chooses to non-conform. Children are extremely sensitive to parental disapproval or anxiety and their response may or may not be compliant with their parents wishes. Or it may be that your child is gender variant and does not feel comfortable within the gender role that has been chosen for him. Your child is likely to be a far better adjusted adult if you just allow him or her to explore whatever he or she (or it) feels comfortable.
I do understand these are complicated and difficult issues for parents. I have a grand child who is approaching the age where gender identity issues have started to present themselves, and not just in her, but also in my daughter, her mother. It is a hard developmental phase to traverse.
Either way, if the behavior is a rebellion against you or a true expression of gender variance your response should be the same. Be rational, non judgmental and kind. There is no upside to forcing the issue, just pain for your child and yourself.
Please do message me privately if you would like more resources for bringing up transgender and gender non conforming children. We are fortunate that there is now quite a bit on the internet.
Last edited by devida; 06-14-2014 at 03:05 PM.
Well, not ALL of you had to push the social norms, only the pioneers of the behavior had to do that. If you need to know the difference, go to an arab country where women aren't allowed to wear pants and then discover what it REALLY means to be on the forefront of 'pushing the norms'.
Because girls wearing male clothing are deemed to be trying to take a step upward in social value, and respected for their efforts, while boys are denigrated for wanting to be something less.Why not boys?
Probably. Kids try on all kinds of outfits, wondering what it's like to wear it, if they'll somehow feel different. The real question is, how many of those boys continue to dress up in their sisters/mom's clothes and shoes? Or was it a one time thing, much the same as, say, putting on a suit of armor, or a clown costume? Curiosity is one thing; continuing to do it is something else entirely.I'd say it's a common curiosity for boys in general.
Initially because I was being told to, I was being trained to be someone's girlfriend. Later, it was because I thought it was the correct thing to do; by that time, I really believed that I was supposed to be a girl, that god would want me to do my best to learn how to be one, and if I did he would 'fix' me.Why, at such a young and impressionable age (most here were children, I believe) did you ignore all the social cues that it was wrong and kept dressing anyway?
Last edited by sometimes_miss; 06-16-2014 at 08:47 PM.
Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.
My answer for both questions is the same, and that is I do what works for me. It's not being a rebel it's just being who I am. I've been living my life that way most of the time since I was 13. The most miserable times of my life are when I changed who I am just so I can fit into society's nifty box.
I don't know why I like it, but I'm glad I do!
As far as I cab remember, I never tried on girl clothes growing up. It just never occurred to me and the weren't readily available. At age 55 it happened as a bit of joking around that suddenly got serious. So, for me there was never a time that it was wrong.
Posting Permissions
