Crossdresser vs Transgender

[LisaKarenAZ]

I prefer the description gender non-conforming to describe myself. IMHO, we spend too much time and energy attempting to place labels to describe where each of us are in the spectrum of gender. Personally, I prefer to consider myself a genetic male with an appreciation for clothing designed for women, as well as makeup. If i could actually choose which gender I was genetically, I would prefer to be a woman.
Since I can't easily do so, I've learned to accept me for me, and the flair that goes along with my external display preferences.

[Michelle789]

So when a straight male dresses as a woman at Halloween, and honestly tries to fool people, but has no desire to dress at any other time, that makes him transgender? Or, just transgender as long as he has the clothes/wig/makeup on?

Why would a man want to dress as a woman for Halloween in the first place, and no other time? Aside from losing a bet, or being in some circumstance where you're forced to, why would a man want to dress as a woman, or even wear lipstick or some article of woman's clothing for that matter?

I mean given how socially unacceptable it is for men to wear women's clothing, why would a man want to do such a thing, if they're not transgender to begin with? And let's say that you can be TG but very moderately so, you might fall only 1% female and your need to dress on Halloween only fulfills the desire. No one says to be TG that you have to be 100% or even 50% female, can't anyone who falls out of the socially acceptable range of male/female for a biological male (which essentially anything other than 100% male, 0% female, is not acceptable and therefore TG)?

[Pink Susan]

It is funny how the human race has this need to label people

Anyway my own thoughts are that many Crossdressers on this Forum ,are quite "normal" men in most aspects , they are often married to a Lady or have a girlfriend , enjoy traditional masculine activities , that may be anything from going Fishing or boating to building a Shed , or get a thrill out of buying / using Power Tools.
Any of those activities leave me cold , I can't fight , push weights or even grow a beard , I am mostly turned on by other Trans "girls" , and am happiest , in a pretty frock , frilly underwear and pantyhose , doing the ironing , vacuuming and cooking .
I am Transgender most probably , not Crossdresser

[Tinkerbell-GG]

If male identified crossdressers are transgender, then so is the entire female population for every time we've cut our hair short, worn men's jeans or borrowed our boyfriend's shirt.

Labels are silly. This is why.

[Kate Simmons]

Any labels I use are for the sake of convenience and understanding. Personally, I consider everyone a dynamic unique individual, gender and labels notwithstanding.

[juliew]

Too busy enjoying life to worry about a score card. I am comfortable with what I am. That is all I need!

[Secret Drawer]

It also comes down to fear. It is a monumental undertaking to even consider changing ones gender (physically). So if we identify ourselves as crossdressers, we mentally try to minimalize our GID issues... (I am just a crossdresser, I can quit at any time, etc...) Once we accept we have some deeper seeded issues we may identify more as transgendered. The way I see it is that crossdressing is a part time thing, and that even if one cannot walk away completely from it, it can be "put away" for a while. I see transgender(ism) as something full time within our mental state. To ignore it is to create huge amounts of stress and anxiety in our daily lives... perhaps labels are not alway accurate or easy to define, but they do help to give general ideas to interested individuals as to where you stand in life.
I imagine there are three giant steps... CD, TG, and TS. All of them are at one point involving crossdressing, but crossdressing does not necessarily involve TG or TS mental states.

[Paulacder]

Crossdressers and Transgendered are two entirely different groups. C/D ers. are just that, either men who like wearing female clothing or it could be females who like wearing male clothing. Transgendered meaning individuals who were born with both sex organs or individuals who have medically altered there birth sex.........Just my 2 cents

[Aprilrain]

And then there is real life...

Transvestite is the original term for crossdresser, it has nothing to do with having a fetish though that is what it has become synonymous with in the US.

Like it or not, transgender is the mainstream medias new pet word for all things transsexual.

If you say the word crossdresser to Joe or jane Shmoe they will conger up an image of a gay man in a dress.

Transsexual as a term is becoming obsolete.

The subtle nuances of the so called "TG umbrella" are lost on most people.

[Ressie]

Some really good posts here. Secret Drawer - your post is right on. TG isn't how one dresses, but is in the mind. Dressing in clothing of the opposite sex is more of a behavior that comes from those thoughts and feelings. I would say that I have some TG qualities and if someone uses the word do describe me it's OK with me.

[Cheryl T]

So much concern about labels and so little about the person....

Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs
Blocking up the scenery, breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?

Tesla - Signs Lyrics

[suchacutie]

To me the term transgender was clear basedon the roots of the word, meaning, literally, across gender. Thus, any activity that crosses the presentation of gender would be appropriately described by this term. Other terms could then be used to be more specific about any particular activity. Alas, nothing seems ever to be that simple.

[NicoleScott]

Whether CDers are under the TG umbrella depends on which definition you CHOOSE to believe. Some (most) definitions of TG include identifying OR presenting as the gender opposite birth sex, while some definitions REQUIRE identifying as the gender opposite birth sex.

To complicate matters, even the term crossdresser has different meanings for different people. To some, a crossdresser is "one who crossdresses". In that case, a one-time Halloween costume makes a guy a crossdresser for the time he is wearing women's clothes. But I don't think so. To me, a crossdresser is a guy who has the internal drive to wear women's clothes (and the F>M flip-side). I am a crossdresser, but Tootsie and Mrs. Doubtfire were not, as what they wore was a disguise and there was no apparent drive to crossdress.

Being a crossdresser is not about the act of wearing the clothes, it's about the drive too wear the clothes.

I'm sure this will clear it up and there will never again be any discussions on the matter. hahahahaha

[BillieJoEllen]

Definitions change. When I was fifteen the court ordered some psychiatric evaluation for some cross dressing trouble I got into. It was determined at that time that I was a transsexual by three different therapists. The terms cross dresser and transgendered weren't heard of or used widely for over twenty five years after that. One word that was used was transvestite (ugh). Sometime in the mid 1990s I was diagnosed as transsexual again by two different therapists. It was at that time that I heard the word cross dresser for the first time although I had seen some literature using those terms dated prior to that.

[Lorileah]

I'm a crossdresser (for only the last few months, but have thought about it for years). I want to transition to become a woman (have thought about that one for even longer). I don't consider myself to have any "gender dysphoria" (or whatever). I just love wearing women's clothes and want to become a woman.

I wonder what exactly this means that I am. Thoughts?

highly confused? Let's just start with some inconsistencies here. You want to transition to be a woman yet you say you have no dysphoria. If you want to transition to a woman you have dysphoria. You are not happy with the way things are. You just love wearing the clothes and want to become a woman, you will be classified as transsexual. One thing you need to consider, unless you go underground there isn't reputable medical person in the US who will let you transition just because you like clothes. Sometimes I wonder what people think transitioning means...it isn't a game like piercing or getting a tattoo. It isn't something you do for fun.

In RE: the OP. The language used it misused so frequently by people not in the close community, it gets blurred. We as a community need to keep things in place where we can communicate (and even here so many want to make their own rules not realizing that they spread confusion) When you interchange words indiscriminately, you are not communicating what you mean. Being in a science field I have to use words that mean something with my colleagues. Cancer is one. It means one thing to medical people but mean something more broad to the lay person. We get that and we have to explain things in a manner that people can understand. If we need to go beyond that, we educate. In the real world here few want an education so when we do try and teach, we get shut off. Maybe if I explain this in a different manner. You can say someone is Oriental. Some people take that as insulting and explain they are of let's say Japanese, or Korean, or Chinese decent. With time and practice you can learn the differences...but then it can get deeper. There are groups within those (Mandarin, Cantonese.etc). We are similar. Transgender is a big catch all, but we may say we are CD or TS or GQ. Then if you go deeper, you can be a non-op TS or a hormonal TS, or a surgical TS or a post-op TS. How far do we need to go with the general population? Here certain posts will need the specificity. In daily life, it would be a good start just to get people to quit looking at us as different.

But first we have to decide on definitions for ourselves

(PS Cheryl...it was the Five Man Electric Band...Tesla stole it )

[KaceyR]

It's a rough thing to define. And that also makes it rough in a way for laws and their legalities when thought if with all the new anti-discrimination laws. The panic over restricting bathroom use to "protect our children from rapists" as so stupidly touted by anti trans equality groups (and I've got a copy of what they sent out to their supporters saying such to spur protests for a recent Sterling Heights city anti-discrimination law - which still passed and was just put in place thankfully) makes it an issue where defining is big matter.
The image of a rapist donning a dress just for the day to be able to call himself transgender and access the room is what's brought to mind.

To me, I've considered myself Transgender and not just crossdresser due to how often I go out, present to the world as opposite sex, as well as how much effort I put into the presentation (full makeup,clothes,mannerisms,and all). As well, it's my own 'thought' of my reasoning for donning the clothes. Sure I love the clothes, femininity, but I'd kind of worked a bit more into it. More recently it's been wanting to 'be' Kacey, 'the' woman, and not just act like Kacey, a woman.
Personally, I think I need to find and discuss this all with a therapist. Just haven't yet.

So I don't know how legally the laws will work out. Some don't count you being transgender, without 'some' form of body surgeries or official statements by doctors. (Parts needed for official identity change too). So it's a bit of a mess out there
I might consider myself TG but without 'official' documents or changes happening, I wouldn't be considered such.

[Nadia Pinky]

I think TG feel strong to change to real female in life and facing all folks to change them self but crossdresser dressed part time and satisfy a man and as women with no sense to change gender

[Susan Stevens]

There are a couple of reasons behind my intent in asking the questions. First, I lived in a religious bubble for 34 years, I was taught all of this is evil, and repulsive. This led to a lot of self hatred and serious ignorance on the issues! So I want to better understand who I am. Second, I want to be able to help others understand who we are as a community. We seem to be swept under the rug by many of the other communities. One post I read talked about someone who did not want to use the proper pronoun for a post-op Trans person, which may be simply because of how we are perceived, or ignorance, or even hate. I never fault anyone for ignorance, I am still learning myself and have found I often speak in ignorance. I just hope someone is willing to take the time to help me understand more fully on the issue.

IMHO, I don't think there is anything wrong with labels, so long as we don't limit ourselves because of the labels. For instance, I accept the labels of father and husband willingly. These labels help others understand who I am. What I don't do is allow those labels to force me into a box of how or what I should do within those labels. My wife and I will be switching roles when she finishes her degree. I will be the homemaker and she the bread winner. I am allowing my label to define who I am, but not to limit or control how I choose to live. I welcome the label of a Transgender, though I am not sure I fit into everyone's else's label if what that means. It does help others to understand there is more to me than just what is readily visible. Again, I could be totally wrong and I am willing to learn from all of you and change my opinion should I learn I am wrong.

I learning a lot about this subject and finding good points on all sides! Thanks so much for. All the input so far!

[Lacy PJs]

Two things: first, are we afraid of labels because they say something about us that we don't want to be said? As someone mentioned earlier, labels "help" define a person as to who they are but should not confine them within that label. If a person is handicapped, they are a person with a disability, yet they don't let that label define what they can or cannot do (within the confines of the law). But there's no getting around the fact that they have some kind of impairment, something that makes them different from the "norm."

To me, the crossdresser is the person who enjoys wearing the clothing of the other gender more for the physical pleasure derived from doing so. The transgendered person is someone who "needs" to crossdress and do other things to fulfill a deeper urge to be more a part of the other gender. I play games because... I like to play games. That doesn't make me ultra-competitive to the point where I live a lifestyle that would help me to win at all costs. I don't have an inner desire that tells me that I must win or I am somehow incomplete. That's the way I feel about crossdressing; I like the feel of the clothes yet I don't wear forms, pads, jewelry or other ornamentation that would make me even remotely passable, nor would I consider any kind of reconstructive surgery. I sometimes wear pink lacy panties because I like to wear pink, lacy panties, not because they make me feel more like I'm a woman with them on. So that is "my" take on the difference; your mileage may vary.

Lacy PJs

[Sarah Doepner]

I can tell you with incredible detail about my favorite sports team and it just might make your eyes glaze over, ending the possibility of me explaing anything to you. Or I could say I really like the Utah Jazz basketball team even though they haven't been very good recently. At that you might tell me all about your favorite team or tell me you aren't really interested. The detail isn't needed until the discussion begins and is entered into by both parties.

Yes, transgender is the broader umbrella term, but I tend to use it to describe myself since it is the one with public recognition, the "T" in LGBT.

Probably the best reason to use any lable is for brand recognition. Regardless of how we split hairs in the definitions we use within our community, having something people outside can understand has to be a good thing in that it provides a common foundation to build on.

Technically, TG is supposed to including dressers, but like many things it depends on the context. When TG is used by the mainstream culture, they usually mean transsexuals though (those who are more out and visible.) Heck, most of mainstream society does not even know hetero TVs even exist!

Exactly, so having a definition that is widely understood may provide a way to hook this kind of understanding to a word. Maybe not, but I think it's worth it.

(. . . snip . . .) Naturally I support the use of Transgender as a broad umbrella term for anyone expressing cross-gender behavior or identity that cares to adopt it. TS people are TG but not all TGs are TS. It's that last part that seems to cause a bit of friction. There really is a wide spectrum here ranging from the casual CD who is secure in their assigned gender and reports no dysphoria to the full TS who overwhelmingly feels like they have always been in the wrong body. I like this inclusive view as it is meant to bring us all together in solidarity. Where ever you fall on the spectrum, we all have some things in common and struggle daily with society's lack of understanding. Instead of arguing over who is exactly what, we should allow people to express their identities as they see fit and welcome them all to our wider community.

Charla you are speaking my language. I'd really like it if we could somehow get all the TV and Newsfolks to add this little bit of understanding to their world. Eventually, maybe, it would be possible to have a conversation with someone that didn't start with 15 minutes of defining what we are not. If Crossdresser works, fine, if it takes Transgender, then use it and if the only thing that works is Transvestite, well, I guess that would have to do.

[Frédérique]

At what point do you consider an individual a transgender person? Do you consider your self transgender now?

When they leave this section and head to that other section…

Do I consider myself transgender? NO.

[mechamoose]

Ok.. so..

I know that there is a clear difference between a person who cross dresses and transgender people, but I think that there is some crossover, and that blurs the lines.

We enjoy wearing the opposing gender's clothes, to present, in some way, as that other gender.

While that isn't the same as folks who have full gender disphoria, it shares some level of the same feelings.

It isn't about black or white. Most of us here are very grey.

- MM

[Princess Grandpa]

After realizing last year that I am a cross dresser, I started reading up on it. My only experiences with the trans-world was watching M.A.S.H. On TV as a child, and one acquaintance who was TS. I read that TG was an umbrella term that includes all of us that identify or present in a manner not consistent with our physical gender at birth. I have since learned that not everyone agrees with this definition.

How do I see myself? I don't feel like a woman trapped in a mans body. As my father and every other male role model in my life will attest to I'm not a "real man". Something somewhere in between? Yea maybe. I have never felt so happy and complete as I have over the past year. I have heard the term gender-queer thrown around. If I understand correctly, not really a man not really a woman but something somewhere in between?" I'm not sure my understanding it correct but that feels like me.

Hug
Rita

[susannma]

Hi Susan
I know this tread is a bit old.

But its actually a topic I was almost making a new tread about.

I think according to dictionary there is no difference.

But I have big problem with thinking about myself as Transgender, when I think about transgender people I do think about persons who want to be diffrent gender. Who more or less behave and want to be the other gender.

I dont have problem with caling myself Crossdresser, I feel that describes more or less what I am. I am a male, and like being male, but I also like to put on female clothes, wear makeup and style my hair from time to time.

I guess I am actually wrong... but just how I feel about this.

[PegyL]

With some one as beautiful as you, your women to the end. Love you dear