Why are women so quick to kick us to the curb like garbage?

[Jenniferathome]

.... For every woman who accepts it, probably a dozen don't. ...

Melanie, this perception simply doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Using this site as a sample, you will find that he number of men who state their marriage ended BECAUSE of cross dressing are remarkably few. Most will admit marriages ended for "many" reasons. And frankly, anyone who claims they had a wonderful marriage but divorced BECAUSE of cross dressing alone are delusional. That extreme example would cover only a few cases. No, I would bet that cross dressers divorce no more frequently than the national average.

[Stefanie_Adams]

I was just thinking about this this morning. I haven't been kicked to the curb as of yet but my wife has known for 24 years of 37 together. I was asking myself why is my wife unhappy. let's see 1) Spouse is Transgendered 2) No Sex (my fault) 3) Hates her job 4) Hates where we live. Why is she even still with me, and what can I do to make her happy? P.S. she understands and is only somewhat supportive. The was I see it I am responsible for 50% of her unhappiness not what I wanted for her or myself. Yeah I can understand how they feel when I feel this way. Brought her along on a ride she didn't buy a ticket for.

[Di]

Some, only some women are ready to kick us to the curb.

My sample size is small, but I think when the marriage disintegrates so rapidly, it is not because of the CDing, but something else that can remain hidden now that the CDing is at the fore and becomes a great reason to split.

I fall into the "didn't kick my husband to the curb" category. I love my spouse and I understand that it is not a choice to be transgendered. Our marriage was strong to start with, and Eryn has been honest with me and responsible with finances, as well as striving to be a better partner. I believe that the marriages that don't survive CDing fail due to other issues on the part of one or both members of the marriage--the CDing merely provided the catalyst.

I agree with both of these quotes....if there is problems before then sometimes it is the straw that breaks the camels back.

Personally being involved with a few support groups most wives join us to understand and save the relationship.And although it does happen ( I only know of 3 personally in our group of over a hundred) that it was just black and white stop or I go and no inbetween)

[Bev06 GG]

Mmmm I tend to think that if a marriage splits up there is something else in the back ground not quite right too. If you really love someone you will accept them for who they are not who you want them to be. Cross dressing really isn't the big deal people make it out to be and if you think about it rationally why wouldn't men want to look like us. We are just flipping drop dead gorgeous.

[PaulaQ]

The idea that the revelation of our transness to our spouses can't really shatter a relationship - that really our relationships end for other reasons - drives many from this forum.

It's difficult to sit broken hearted over the loss of your marriage, and be told by the lucky ones who made it:
"Your marriage sucked"
"You had huge problems, you are just unwilling to admit them"
"You should have compromised"

It's very strange to be called "delusional" by those who compare CDing to "the straw that broke the camels back". I'd hope we'd all be honest enough to admit that for a fair number of people in our society, CDing is just not a "straw," this is a non trivial issue. Given the number of women who come to the forum struggling with this issue, I don't think it's terribly realistic to trivialize this issue.

But hey - we like to assert our superiority over the losers in life I guess.

[Simone_40]

Perhaps, because MANY CD's use their dressing as a 'cover' to attract men, and then the wife finds out they had been Gay all their life. ULTIMATE BETRAYAL. Permanent Emotional Damage to the FAITHFUL wife = Ugly Divorce.
And, ultimately, the ex-husband has himself what he wanted to be all along - a W***E with men.

This happened to one of my friends, and he feels extreme guilt over what he did to his wife.
I don't particularly care to be around him anymore, he's only into himself, and no one else matters. Jerk!

I remained faithful to my Beautiful wife, but she just could not tolerate my CD'ing. She once told me that she married a man, not a woman. I miss her.

Kisses,
Simone

[Ressie]

Crossdressing may not be a major cause of divorce, but it gives most women second thoughts of continuing a relationship before marriage. And we all know what these thoughts are. Then she'll need to share this with a couple of her girlfriends to see what they think…

It's most honorable to bare one's soul up front, but then the challenge is over. She knows your innermost secrets and it's boring.

[MelanieAnne]

Thats right....Moretti..wont let you out or I send over my cleanup crew...LOL...kidding...I am single..but this is my 2 cents....girls want a man, a macho man, a real man, a manly man...this kinda thing tarnishes that image and comes with so much baggage and ruins a gals image of what they actually thought we were as males...girls are needy and want attention and need to be the center of everything...when u dress SHE is not the center...its hard for girls to comprehend...SHE is the pretty one...not you...you cant be pretty...She needs to be the one who "does it" for you....our hobby is a tough pill to swallow for them...even though it has nothing to do with how we feel about them at all, but more about what makes US happy...and what girl likes it when you pay attention to yourself instead of her for once? ...just my opinon...again..im single i have no intrest in women anymore...

My sentiments exactly. Women know most crossdressing is sexually driven, and they don't want you to have any other outlets for your urges.
Married 17 years. Single for the last 34. Once was enough.

[sometimes_miss]

Why are women so quick to kick us to the curb like garbage?

Because they feel betrayed because they feel we deceived them about who we are, they feel cheated because they didn't get the masculine male they thought they had, and of course 'let' us have sex with them (most women still feel that men have to earn our way, as if we should pay for the privilege of having sex with them, you see it in how they speak, and just read any woman's magazine if you don't believe me). Women also get angry especially if they got together with us during their 'prime years', when they had the chance to attract a different, 'real' man instead of us. They feel they have lost their provider and protector (they now feel insecure, not knowing if we'll act like a wussy in the face of danger), they lose face with their friends and relatives because we're considered damaged goods. So it's no surprise that they lash out, and divorce us and want to take out their frustrations and anger by doing bad things to us and taking every cent they can in return for all that suffering they feel they have to put up with.

[Simone_40]

Because they feel betrayed because they feel we deceived them about who we are, they feel cheated because they didn't get the masculine male they thought they had, and of course 'let' us have sex with them (most women still feel that men have to earn our way, as if we should pay for the privilege of having sex with them, you see it in how they speak, and just read any woman's magazine if you don't believe me). Women also get angry especially if they got together with us during their 'prime years', when they had the chance to attract a different, 'real' man instead of us. They feel they have lost their provider and protector (they now feel insecure, not knowing if we'll act like a wussy in the face of danger), they lose face with their friends and relatives because we're considered damaged goods. So it's no surprise that they lash out, and divorce us and want to take out their frustrations and anger by doing bad things to us and taking every cent they can in return for all that suffering they feel they have to put up with.

sometimes_miss,
Well said. I am guilty of this myself. I should have disclosed this fact about myself to my Beautiful wife BEFORE we got married, and I lost her because I failed. I failed miserably.
And, I did cause her great suffering because of my lack of Character.
I paid dearly for what I put her through. I hear that she will never trust another man again because I did mislead her about who I really am.
I DISRESPECTED her.
I miss her.
Kisses,
Simone.

[PaulaQ]

My wife would've handled it better had I been simply gay or had an affair with another woman. We'd still have split in the first situation, and probably have survived the second.

FWIW, I sometimes think to myself, as I drive by all the gay bars in my neighborhood, "Why oh why couldn't I just have been gay instead of transgender?"

It's ironic. My wife always worried about losing me to another woman, though I never cheated on her. But in a real sense, she did lose her husband to another woman after all.

[MatildaJ.]

PaulaQ wrote yesterday complaining about

The idea that the revelation of our transness to our spouses can't really shatter a relationship - that really our relationships end for other reasons

But I think there you're conflating CDing and transitioning. I think women don't usually leave over a husband's desire to wear panties under his clothes. I think many women can put up with him having a few outfits and wearing them occasionally. And I think a lot of CDers can survive with that low level of dressing, if they feel they have their wife's support and love.

So if a marriage ends when the CDer reveals a love of panties... that either means he married someone with unusually rigid gender expectations, or that the wife had other reasons for walking away.

But when it becomes clear that the husband prefers dressing at all times, and feels more comfortable as a woman (even if he still says he won't transition)... that's what many fewer straight women will find tolerable. That was your situation. In that case, there's no need to look beyond the gender issues for why the marriage ended. Hope that helps you feel less under attack.

[traci_k]

So, after reading though all these interesting replies, I think we can see that women’s reactions do run the gamut from accepting, of trying to understand, to understanding, to complete non-acceptance For some, yes, the loss of trust is an issue. Yes some see it as being less of a “man.” Understand too that there are some women who see CDing as an addiction that is curable, that leads just as surely to Transexualism as alcohol leads to heroin They see CDing as cavorting with the devil, reject anything but the gender binary, just as they see the earth and universe as 6,000 years old. Since my wife found a pair of panties and skirt several years ago, she has since become a part-time moderator on a Christian fundamentalist board for women whose husbands CD or are TG, considering transition, or transitioning. To them it’s all or nothing and even CDing is the proverbial straw.

I believe I told my wife that I CDed in my prior life, but after getting saved thought I was changed. If only I had found this board back then, I would have known that it is something which almost never goes away. Being older, I understand now why I identified as a girl when I was young. But like many late transitioners, thought that transitioning was never a possibility and was content to think of myself as just a CDer. After working it through with a therapist, I now know better and see transition in my future.

The whole point of this ramble is to say that if you are a CDer or think you might be Transgender, DO NOT get involved with a Christian fundamentalist. They WILL NOT understand and you will have a very short leash and fine line to walk if they do find out and will lead to more deceit, hiding the truth and complete breakdown of the marriage.

Kudos to those GGs who try to understand and those who even stay with their husbands through transition. You are special treasures!

[Jenniferathome]

....Women know most crossdressing is sexually driven, and they don't want you to have any other outlets for your urges. ...

No Melanie, women, don't know jack about cross dressing!

It's not on the radar. They have to do research to even get a grasp of cross dressing. There is zero, widely available, pre-digested information out in the world. It has to be sought. The mistake far too many cross dressers make is assuming that a wife even knows what cross dressing is. Imagine meeting someone from CERN who just expects you to know how the Hadron Collider works. You'd think they were a fool! How could any normal person be expected to know that?!? Now substitute woman and cross dressing for CERN and Hadron Collider and you have the same result.

Jess, very important distinction you pointed out. cross dressing and transsexualism are like the earth and mars. Way different.

[PaulaQ]

It's not like earth and mars at all.

Cross dressing is one of the most commonly reported preliminary symptoms of transsexualism. The only time you, me, or any professional can tell the difference is AFTER the point at which the transsexual either begins to transition, or is in such distress that transition is inevitable. That is, you can only tell after the fact.

[Kristina_nolagirl]

I just love it when people who think they are scientists take the worlds smallest sample size (just their life) and assume that is the way it is. NOT! It's so freaking ridiculous.

For lack of a better saying, I'll say people are like snowflakes, no 2 are exactly the same. Each person is shaped by their genetic disposition and their life experiences. On one end, there are women who will never accept a crossdressing husband and in the opposite end are women who try to turn their husband into a crossdresser because they like it. 98% of us fall somewhere in the middle of these 2 extremes.

I just got off the phone 20 mins ago with my wife who was crying about the blog post I made on my blog about crossdressing. Not sad tears, but happy ones. She said and I quote "I love Chris and Kristina so much! If either of you ever leave me, I'm coming with you." We talk about how my crossdresding has created some unique issues to deal with but overall has brought us closer together than we ever imagined. I can say without a doubt in my mind that it truly has.

That being said, I do put her needs and desires over mine and I don't over do the crossdressing. In turn, she put me over her. So many people get an inch of acceptance and take a mile. If you over do it with crossdrsssing, alcohol, stamp collecting or anything else your going to run into problems - that's relationships 101.

I'm sure I'll get the typical response from some of the baby boomers here. "You were born in a different time, our generation is different. Women of our generation are not accepting." That more bull. Get out of your little tunnel and read here or many other places online and you will see many happy marriages with crossdressing husbands - of all ages. I read both ends and usually come to the conclusion that a good majority of the "woe-was-me my wife won't love the crossdressing me" people don't realize that they in fact are the problem - not their wife!

There's my rant...hope everyone has an amazing 4th of July!

[Ressie]

LOL Kristina, you just posted what I was thinking.

Though there are similarities, every CD is unique. Every women's reaction to her spouse CDing is also a little different. It's good that we can relate our own experiences with these matters, but it ain't scientific data. It's pretty much opinion based on experience or what one has read on the internet. There are some women that would freak at their man just wearing panties for example. And do most CDs really assume that women know anything about crossdressing? I find that they don't hardly know the difference between a CD and TS because it has nothing to do with their world. So for those CDs that assume women in general have in depth knowledge of CDing please raise your hand.

[Sandra]

Stephanie47

I didn't kick my So to the curb, and contrary to what other GGs have said not all GGs are like that especially here on the forum, just a few that can't understand or get their heads round the idea, which is fine no one should be forced, but what they need to remember is to not lump all GGs together,

[Marcelle]

. . . We talk about how my crossdresding has created some unique issues to deal with but overall has brought us closer together than we ever imagined. I can say without a doubt in my mind that it truly has. . . . I'm sure I'll get the typical response from some of the baby boomers here.

Kristina . . . baby boomers (my wife and I) here (albeit tail end) and I echo your sentiment. Since coming out to my wife she went through the "Huh?" phase to the "Really?" phase and finally the "Understanding/Acceptance" phase. Definitely some unique issues cropped up during my journey this past year but we have met them and our relationship is much stronger. I asked her recently about how she was feeling about my CDing and our relationship. Her reply (roughly quoted) "I have to admit it was a bit odd at first and given hind sight I would not have imagined this 24 years ago when we married. However in the past year I feel as though I got the man I married back, fun loving and happy" For some background for those who do not know my story, the five years before I came out to my wife (last year) were dark times indeed and while supressed CDing tendencies may have been floating around in there, the dark angry days were attributable to life and my occupation and we were drifting apart. CDing has rekindled a bond between us and we have both embraced it in our lives.

So I am one whose wife has not kicked me to the curb.

Hugs

Isha

[Tamara Croft]

Out of all the posts here, what sometimes_miss wrote bugged me the most, it felt like all the CD'ers were lumped into the same basket and all GG's are unaccepting. How wrong you are! First of all, I knew within a couple of months what my SO was, yes it was weird, hurt a bit etc... took me a while to get used to it, had a few bumps in the road, but not ONCE did I ever feel my man wasn't man enough to protect me, I know he is, whether in jeans or a skirt, he would defend me to the moon and back.

The problem is with some GG's who are still unaccepting is, they join sites that bash CD'ers, take in all what these vicious wives are saying and most of the time end up bitter and divorced. Then they join this forum and bring that crap with them, constantly bringing down CD'ers because they were hurt by ONE person, not by people here, but they continue down this bitter road until one day it will eat them up and they will be 6 foot under.

That thread 'why do you need us' I actually thought was quite harsh, more or less saying CD'ers aren't human and do not deserve to be loved... actually it's quite mean!

If a GG is unaccepting of her man being a CD'er, I wonder how she would like being kicked to the curb for it... (yes I am a GG), it's just clothes, makeup etc... something most women wear, so why not a man?? just because he has male parts?? really??

[sometimes_miss]

Out of all the posts here, what sometimes_miss wrote bugged me the most, it felt like all the CD'ers were lumped into the same basket and all GG's are unaccepting.

Tamara, there will always be exceptions to the 'rules'. I didn't come up with the theories of human dynamics in sexual attraction. I just spent years reading every single thing I could find about it after my misguided assumption that all the good things about me would somehow negate the crossdressing, and MY WIFE kicked ME to the curb, blackmailing me while doing it. It's nice to come here and be accepted; sure. But we also have to live in the real world, and I offer up what knowledge I've found in hopes that it will help everyone understand what goes on between men and women when it comes to the mating dance, and all the subconscious feelings that we often ignore and just chalk up to 'chemistry'.

If a GG is unaccepting of her man being a CD'er, I wonder how she would like being kicked to the curb for it... (yes I am a GG), it's just clothes, makeup etc... something most women wear, so why not a man?? just because he has male parts?? really??

No matter how much progress we make becoming accepted and tolerated, the real challenge will to be overcoming thousands of generations of evolutionary development which apparently predisposes females to be attracted to the alpha male traits, and turn off sexually towards men with feminine characteristics. Attraction is not a choice, easily seen in the millions of women who stay with men who treat them like dirt, with the tired chant of 'because I love him'. We can act on that attraction or not. But it's almost always impossible to get turned on by someone that has something about them that turns us off. I don't hold women's feelings of being turned off by crossdressing against them by any means. I really don't think it's a conscious decision, any more than men being almost universally attracted primarily to women with waist hip ratios of around 70% is (again, not my theory, but researched in modern psychology). I don't think a woman can force herself to become turned on to a crossdresser any more than a man can force himself to get an erection while thinking of someone who he isn't attracted to.

[Tamara Croft]

and MY WIFE kicked ME to the curb, blackmailing me while doing it.

Wow, what a nasty person (I can think of other names but they aren't nice)... I don't understand that at all, how a woman who is supposed to love their man, turns into such a vile creature because of crossdressing?? Me and my OH have had our ups and downs, we've split up a few times, but not ONCE have I ever outed him to anyone, I wouldn't dream of it. It takes a nasty vindictive bitch to do that and whilst I may come across that way sometimes, I'm really not I'm so sorry this happened to you, I hope you sorted things out and are in a better place, no one should have to put up with that, or put up with being told what they can and cannot do, or wear or shave etc... I think it's silly and childish.

[Michelle789]

Sometimes_miss - I'm really sorry to hear about what happened with your wife, it is indeed a terrible thing to do. It shows that women really want a masculine man in their life, not a woman (TS) or someone who is feminine or could potentially be a woman (CD). The fact that a woman will kick a CDer to the curb, yet allow a man to beat her, rape her, drink away their money, forbid her to see her friends, slave drive her with errands to run all day, throw her head into a hot oven, call her dirty names, and yell and scream at her, tells me a lot. Women really do want a manly man, and apparently when men show any of these forms of abuse, they're still being men, but a CDer who does none of them is being a woman, therefore, you're kicked to the curb. Also, all of those abusive behaviors can be potentially stopped, even though in practice it really is a long shot. CDing can never be stopped, the desire to dress only gets stronger.

Amazingly, lots of women will be friends with a CDer or a TS, but not romantically. I guess CDers are really viewed as women by other women, hence a woman will be friends with a woman, but not date a woman.

I think straight women view CDers as women, and lesbian women view CDers (and apparently TSes too) as men, and bisexual women view CDers as both.

[Stephanie47]

I came back to read the responses. Interesting! I will say, Sandra, please read the entire content of the post when commenting. Of course, the lure to the post may suggest exclusiveness. However, in the post I do mention my marriage of over four decades has not ended in divorce, separation or hostility, and, many as well.

Stephanie47

I didn't kick my So to the curb, and contrary to what other GGs have said not all GGs are like that especially here on the forum, just a few that can't understand or get their heads round the idea, which is fine no one should be forced, but what they need to remember is to not lump all GGs together,

[Badwolf]

It's a complicated issue but the core of the problem lies in two things.

1. The T part of the spectrum is barely visible, and often misunderstood.
2. There is a serious trust issue when a life commitment has been made by someone who is hiding something that can change a lot in the way lives were expected to be lived.

There are a ton of issues women face as well that can exacerbate the problem by mislabeling the problem or causing false choices as the only solution they can see, but all of those are moot points if your goal is to try to seize the opportunity to change the situation. The current amount of exposure of specifically Transexuals makes it just that much more confusing for people to believe that there are substantial numbers of straight cross dressers out there.