Am I supposed to be grateful if this hypothetical significant other (or, I guess in this case, 'other') thinks that my cross-dressing might be something worth leaving me for? I wouldn't start a serious relation with someone who doesn't know about it anyway, but people don't own each other and you're not supposed to pressure someone into agreement as a cross-dresser OR a partner. Boundaries can be reasonable, but so can certain wishes.Originally Posted by Wildaboutheels
I am getting to the point of being glad i am a lifetime single. If i could not dress to the nines, with wig and jewelry and stuffed bra, I would not put on a dress at all. If i married, i would have to negotiate, and do my best to comply, though.
I get that you wouldnt start a relationship with someone if they didn't accept you cding. I think that should def be discussed before a serious relationship stArted, but if in fact it wasn't and If you married someone then later told them your a cder, then hell yes your supposed to be GRATEFUL!
Sorry but finding out a SO Is a Cder is a life changing event.....
Last edited by Amylou2014; 07-01-2014 at 05:57 PM.
I agree that finding out one's spouse is a CDer is a life changing event. But for the CDer, especially the one who identifies later in life, it can be equally life-changing and terrifying. The concept of boundaries, to me, is controlling and would make me feel as though I'm treating my spouse like a child. The CDing needs to be managed, not controlled. Managing it may mean compromises, negotiations, discussions, and the willingness of both parties to be flexible without resentment from either side. For some, the idea of any boundary immediately makes them want to stretch the boundary, having a counterproductive effect to what the wife had hoped for. Mutually agreed upon policies are much more likely to work.
If you are a Genetic Female (Female at Birth) and would like to join us in the F.A.B. Forum, please follow the link.
F.A.B. Forum Access
Why does this have to be a conflict?
I would answer, "Thank you. It means so much to me that you are open to a workable solution between the two of us concerning my need to dress. Lets sit down and talk about what my dressing means and our feelings about the different specifics and then we can agree on what boundaries work best for the both of us. I love you."
How does that sound?
I am Me and Me is OK!
Shelby
Just one thing to point out. Agreements may work just fine for both partners but ultimatums never do.
Second star to the right and straight on till morning
Amylou while I agree with your sentiment in that if I know I am TG/CD before I start a relationship and it is necessary for my emotional well being. Specifically I know I will have to do it in such a way that it may bring harm to my intended then yes a person should be up front. However it is not that simple and you cannot lump all into one category. I did not discover Isha until I was 24 years into my marriage and I was emotionally confused to the point where I was in a very dark place. There was no malice on my part. I told my wife then and there for if I did not it would destroy me. Was I grateful that she accepted Isha into our lives? Yes I was. However, you cannot equate grateful to giving up control of your life to one person . . . relationships are about working together not one party having all the power to make decisions for another. If both parties cannot agree then it is time to move on. If you had done something that was so unforgiving by your husband and he agreed to stay with you on the condition that he could decide what, when and where you can do things . . . would you accept those conditions knowing full well you will be miserable? I would venture most people would not and compromise would have to be struck or the relationship would falter. It is not as simple as some might think it is.
Mimi . . . thank-you for this I could not have said it any better.
Hugs
Isha
Last edited by Marcelle; 07-02-2014 at 03:15 AM.
Mimi and Isha are infinitely more eloquent than I am and I couldn't agree more with their posts. Many SOs think they are given a raw deal and I can relate to that, mostly because I sometimes feel the same about myself. I did not choose to do this either, I just found a way to deal with it constructively. My life is not without what some may consider compromises, but those came naturally, not by force.
I agree that a known cross-dressing habit should be discussed way before marriage or any other serious form of commitment is even considered, but as Isha pointed out, it's not always that clear. Not all cross-dressers are created equally. I have had other issues within relationships but I never turned them into transactions, e.g. "you kept this a secret for me for two years, so now you're only allowed to do this and that". Despite my obvious and less obvious flaws I'm still a whole person and if that's not something worth fighting for there's not much I can do about that.
Anyway, boundaries shouldn't be based on doing as less cross-dressing as possible, it should be based on finding a comfortable situation for all parties involved.
I was under the distinct impression that the vast majority here [presumably single or with knowing SO's] sleep in a nightgown or some type of female garments? Certainly no one sleeps with forms, wigs, padding, makeup etc.?
Or does "presentation" not matter when asleep or under the covers?
Wild, I don't care what I sleep in as long as I get a good nights sleep, which happens about once a week !
Usually a nightie under PJs but I'm working on that one !
Healthy relationships are not built on ultimatums. They are built on mutual respect and communication. Both parties have to be willing to be flexible and to understand that situations are always going to change with time.
Not understanding this is a quick path to divorce.
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
I would not agree but maybe there would be a compromise worked out.
Work on your elegance,
and beauty will follow.
So true! I had never thought of it that way. After the big 'reveal', the wife is the one left doing all the 'understanding and accepting'. The weight of change is pretty much placed entirely on us...yet some of the husbands here post often that they think they should also be able to make demands and have all their needs met??
Ha! Has no one here met the wrath of an angry woman?? Are you insane?!!
Amy, thanks for that reality check. I hope other GG's remember that bending until they break isn't necessary; they can and SHOULD set boundaries for THEIR emotional well being, and if their H can't handle this, he's likely to become the mess Confucius mentioned and will soon be without a wife.
For the rest, I know you love your wives and that their boundaries are honoured and welcome. Thank you for being one of the good guys
I would of course ask if this was the best she could do, and I would except because I usually don't wear make-up, but I think I can do without the wig but the wig is a very big part of who Maria is.
I think we might be missing an important piece of Wilds initial post, which is for those in the closet or DADT situations. If you consider that as already in a compromised situation, then any acceptance to "wear what you will," is far better then the current scenario now. It isn't about rules, etc. it is about an SO's personal tolerance. (It actually has little to do with us!) I am also speaking from a very specific point of veiw, in which I am gender fluid, thus not directly manly, nor a woman. Thus for me, while many here consider it a joke to be a man in a dress, I consider it a man in a dress by appearance only, but internally I am how I should be. So if my wife suddenly was OK with that, as opposed to her dislike of anything CD, that would be great!
I agree with what Yal are saying, but if you knew prior, it should be discussed.
I don't control my husband, and I never would, however, the point is, he respects me enough to not do want I feel uncomfortable with.
If you wanna call that controlling then idk, respect is love.
I have never felt I was asking to much from my H, I say no wigs, make up or forms DURiNG intimate times. Sorry I don't wanna feel like I'm having sex with a women.
Tinker bell,
It sounds likes the wives aren't respected there forced into uncomfortable situations. Which is sad....
We are the ones that take the blunt hit. It's something new to OUR LIVES not theirs.
A big adjustment(if the SO loves you enough to adjust, which you should be grateful for and respect!).
Last edited by Amylou2014; 07-02-2014 at 05:58 AM.
As I said in another post, I'm leery about the use of terms like most, or even many in characterizing the extent of anything related to CDing. We here are at best a highly selective, and self selected sample, not reliably representative of "most" CDrs or SOs. So take the responses to this query with more than a grain of salt.
To the question: just wearing the clothes wouldn't do anything special for me. I am not comfortable presenting in women's clothes without the various accoutrements. I am striving to present as a woman...not a man in women's clothes.
Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.
Eleanor Roosevelt
If my wife told me that i would be a very happy gurl.if she let me dress whenever i wanted to i bet she would come around sooner or later and let me do it all.
Since I am not interested in trying to pass as a woman the original question does not apply to me. But the topic of negotiation in marriage as opposed to ultimatums applies to everybody in a relationship. In fact I think this may be one of the advantages of being in a relationship with someone who is not presenting their gender in a way that is the norm. It provides both partners with an opportunity to discover what their relationship is based on (mutual love and affection or stereotyped views of what men and women should provide for each other). For someone breaking gender norms, as the numerous threads about pink fog and other obsessive phases shows, cross dressing can be an almost manic experience. Having a partner who can help moderate dress crazed behavior is as valuable to the CDer as it might be to the GG, don't you think? For me I can recognize when I've gone off the transgender diving board into the deep end when my wife starts looking bored and uninterested. I've learned how to shut up. It seems to me many CDers are pretty obsessive and one track minded so having someone around who can tell us that we're going over the top is pretty useful. I am also grateful for having an expert on women's clothes around and someone who can tell me that I am achieving the effect I want from my make up. I'm not trying to pass as a woman but I also do not want to look like a man. Make up used subtly is a great way to achieve that effect but I need something more than a mirror. I need someone to tell me how I look. I can and do ask: Do I look fat in this dress, dear? My wife is quite happy to say that I do. She will also tell me I look a bit too chesty if she thinks my boobs are too big.
Also I think that husbands get away with a lot that perhaps CDing husbands do not wish to. There is considerable privilege stereotypically granted to men in marriage. I know this is less so these days but I never saw my father do the dishes, do any cleaning, cook a meal or help around the house. Many men still regard all that as women's work even if the women have full time jobs. I think CDers and gender non conformists like me may, as a result of declining to identify ourselves as stereotypical males, be less likely to avoid the household chores that men have no right to refuse to do. I do the cooking, half the shopping, clean the floors as well as doing the handiwork that men are meant to do (and taking out the garbage). My wife does as much as I do. This too is a result of ongoing negotiation. But only in my early and stupid twenties did I think that certain jobs were women's work and frankly, I was just lazy.
So I know that we have a lot of threads by CDers and GGs complaining about each other, but there are some advantages too, don't you think? My SO thinks so. A few months ago she told me she though it was all pretty exciting to be with me as I explored my true gender. Wasn't that a great thing to hear?
This q is about perspective. I think maybe some forget about how many shades of gray there are. Just have a look at the grey/gray paint chips alone on your next visit to Wally World. SEEING them is a good reminder.
And am I hearing that possibly someone who told prior to marriage and was informed in so many words that the GG simply was not interested at all in that "facet" of her partner...
She comes to you out of the blue, maybe after many years, willing to BEND somewhat, but you are going to tell her she is being unreasonable and/or that it is all or nothing for you?
The above is the agreement in our home. Skirt, tops, bras and even a little jewelry but no makeup shaved legs or wigs. It is an extremely workable arrangement.
Last edited by Katey888; 07-02-2014 at 02:47 PM. Reason: Fixed quote box
On both sidesI think maybe some forget about how many shades of gray there are.
Each couple has to find what works for them. Both have to be honest.
If the wife ( wanting to be supportive says nothing when something really bugs them it ends up being oh G no here we go again) instead of moving forward together in the relationship.
Also the hubby needs to speak up and not agree if something will not work for them because end result they will be back doing it in secret again.
Couples can just figure it out....and like JessM said....if the wig ect bothers me....then do that when I am not home.
Things can be always be worked out.
The end result you want is where cding is not the elephant in the room.....you just are living your life....no drama.
In our case....no boundrys .... but mutual respect and I feel with freedom there comes a calmness and not this frantic thinking all the time when can I dress again I see some go through.
AGAIN it is what works for us....and every couple has to find what works for them
If you are a Genetic Female (Female at Birth) and would like to join us in the F.A.B. Forum, please follow the link.
F.A.B. Forum Access
Sherlyn,My beautiful sweet girl
You forever and always will be my one and only true love . ❤️
Administrator
I agree with what has been sad before.
I would say: thanks dear that means a lot to me, but no make up, wig, etc is like a hamburger without meat, it ain't the same. So I will continue to dress up when I'm alone.
do not label me for i am unique
I can wear what I like, however, I do not wear makeup or a wig very often, just mainly if I'm going out.
My wife has not asked me to forgo the wig and makeup, but I can tell what she's comfortable with, or not.
So, it's my choice, and I choose what is most comfortable for my wife.
DonnaT
1 . I immediately reply with 'You understood the situation before you locked into the relationship. Please do not make me choose between you and my dressing, because I can not guarantee that you will win. If this is not something you can handle, or want to deal with, then we need to end this relationship now.'.
About 2 years into our relationship, she found out about my dressing and this is exactly what went down, and we moved on... If an ultimatum came after this event, this is exactly what I would say. Fortunately, she understood that this is not something I can just 'switch off', and agreed to maintain the relationship......That was 12 years ago... so I guess things are still okay. We're still together.
Also, I don't make it a habit of being in her face with it either. Actually, she rarely sees me when I'm dressed.
Posting Permissions
