It isn't mainly the lies or secrets that cause our relationship problems

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Lidea, I completely get what you mean. The few times I saw my H fully dressed was unnerving at best, and outright traumatising on the days I just wasn't emotionally up for it. He, too, doesn't behave as he usually does. He doesn't behave like a woman either, or any woman I know, but I can tell HE thinks he's being feminine or whatever. Really, he just looks drugged and high. He is a stranger and it's sad, because we married our best friends, not strangers.

Does your H want you to see him as an actual woman? Jennifer made a good point that you should ask him this. I assumed, as you do, that mine wanted this. When I finally discussed it with him I understood he wanted me to physically see him as female, but underneath he's still the guy I married. Well, I tried that approach, too, and that still didn't help me. He'd still look high and different and I couldn't be around him anymore. It's so true what you wrote - this happiness for them is quite the threat for us. I get knots in my stomach and feel like I'm in a bad melodrama where the wife is meant to pretend everything is normal when there's enormous pink elephant crowding the living room!

Some days, I think this can't possibly be healthy for a spouse? But others, more so since joining here, I see it as strange, but harmless, and something I don't need to be involved in anymore. So my H dresses away now where I don't have to see it. That's helped, a lot. No one said we had to involve ourselves in all our spouses past times and while this is an important one for him, so was my sanity, so this works for us. For now.

I try not to think too long about the future, to be honest. When you have something like crossdressing in your relationship, and all the unknowns that can bring, planning ahead seems pointless as we can never truly know what will happen. Look at Paula! Rare, sure - but it happens and that will always be there in the back of my mind every time my H dresses.

I wonder if the wife of a recovering alcoholic is always just waiting for that fateful day he picks up a drink?

[hope springs]

Tinkerbell i dont think anyone can accuse you of not trying. I asked my wife moments ago if my CDing impacted her image of me or her own identity as a wife.
She basically said no and not really. It is what it is.
She said its neither awesome or sucks. Its just part of who i am. Admittingly i tone down the feminine gestures and walk around her. I get how this can be traumatic to an SO.
For clarity, i didnt realize i was CD until ten years into our marriage. Its clarified alot about me but obviously muddied the relationship waters at the same time.
You sound like your really trying tinker. But ultimately it doesnt sound like you can accept it. On any level. I hope the best for you and your SO

[Jenniferathome]

..., planning ahead seems pointless as we can never truly know what will happen. Look at Paula! Rare, sure - but it happens and that will always be there in the back of my mind every time my H dresses....

Tink, you don't stop planning even though he could get cancer or be hit by a bus, right? It may be in the back of ones mind that "things" can happen but they are so unlikely that we don't worry about them. If transsexualism is your greatest fear, it's either a) he's not, so don't worry or b) he is and there is nothing you can do about it, so why worry? By the way, it's a) he's more likely to be hit by a bus.

water off a ducks back....

[Tinkerbell-GG]

By the way, it's a) he's more likely to be hit by a bus.

water off a ducks back....

Thanks Jen, I do actually know it's option a) - my H doesn't even dress that often (decreasing over time, even) and looks at me like I have three heads whenever I suggest TS. In his mind, the two are not even on the same planet so what's my problem?

Well, as we figured out here some time back, I'm a typical female over-thinker, lol. I still do that, but I'm also compartmentalising the whole thing much better than I used to and that's helping A LOT.

I think you're right though, Hope Springs - I'll never accept CD in the way that it will be a part of my life and I like it. But I can accept my H needs it and tolerate it the best I can. You all have really helped me do that.

Lidea, we really need to have a wine-whine night where we can chat about our crazy lives! lol.

[PaulaQ]

I wonder if the wife of a recovering alcoholic is always just waiting for that fateful day he picks up a drink?

I think it's common at first. But if the alcoholic truly recovers, entering a spiritual program to deal with their alcoholism, and continues their program, maintaining their sobriety, I think the worry of this fades over time.

My own wife met me after I'd been sober for three years. She worried about my alcoholism a lot at first - I was open with her about it. Over time, she worried less and less about it. After a few years, she never even thought about it. For what it's worth, I've been sober for 24 years now.

I think that was one of the things that made her so certain I'd transition, even though I didn't want to believe it myself. She'd seen things that I'd overcome in my past, and when I told her "My gender issues are beyond my ability to stop - I can not suppress them anymore, I must follow this through, where ever it leads, and what ever the cost, or I will surely die," she knew that whatever it was that I faced, it was serious, earnestly serious. She also knew that I'd never put anything before our relationship - until the moment I said "where ever it leads, and what ever the cost."

My gender has been the most overwhelming and powerful thing I've ever faced in my lifetime. I thought that I understood the concept of "powerlessness" after 23 years of sobriety. After all, I knew that I was powerless over alcohol - if I took a drink, I'd soon be completely out of control. But what I experienced made me realize that I didn't understand powerlessness at all.

My poor wife was right, and I was an arrogant fool.

[Simone_40]

Paula,
This is what I just posted on a Stephanie47's Thread:

Perhaps, because MANY CD's use their dressing as a 'cover' to attract men, and then the wife finds out they had been Gay all their life. ULTIMATE BETRAYAL. Permanent Emotional Damage to the FAITHFUL wife = Ugly Divorce.
And, ultimately, the ex-husband has himself what he wanted to be all along - a W***E with men.

This happened to one of my friends, and he feels extreme guilt over what he did to his wife.
I don't particularly care to around him anymore, he's only into himself, and no one else matters. Jerk!

I remained faithful to my Beautiful wife, but she just could not tolerate my CD'ing. She once told me that she married a man, not a woman. I miss her.

Kisses,
Simone

[Jenniferathome]

Simone, if you substitute the word "many" with the words "one in a million" then you might be right.

[Kelly DeWinter]

"It isn't mainly the lies or secrets that cause our relationship problems"

I'm not sure that lies and secrets are NOT the main causes of relationship problems, It's very easy to argue that they are, No one likes to be lied to or to have secrets kept from them, especially in a relationship. The big issue that I've read in the forum here from the people in relationships where there was/is lying and secrets are that it is not once,twice or three times. Crossdressing is a continual active occurrence. It's not just a , oops i did something one time. Its the nights out, the money spent, the hidden items around the house.

[Simone_40]

Simone, if you substitute the word "many" with the words "one in a million" then you might be right.

Jennifer, I respect your opinion. But then tell me why is there are SO many links at the bottom of this website?, ESP.:
//http://www.cdrelationship.com/ & http://www.crossdressingrelationship.com/ ?

You don't see these kinds of ads at the bottom of the WSJ, or WP.

Kisses,
Simone

[MatildaJ.]

JessM: For us, the one persona that my wife knew for 34 years was the composite me. In our opinion all we are doing is identifying which persona belongs to which gender identity. It's actually made our situation clearer... It's still all the person she married, just gender clarified

That sounds lovely -- I'm glad it works that way for you. But that's not my experience. The new female persona feels like a new person arrived in our lives. She doesn't add clarity to our situation. She doesn't seem to understand me the way he does. And it doesn't feel like now I finally understand the composite person I married. It feels like part of him is shrinking, and this new persona is making herself at home in his life.

The few times I saw my H fully dressed was unnerving ... He, too, doesn't behave as he usually does...Really, he just looks drugged and high. He is a stranger and it's sad, because we married our best friends, not strangers.

That's like my experience. In fact thinking of it as a drug makes some sense to me. It's like those nights when he comes home from an event drunk, but I stayed home and am sober. He's not himself, and he's not very much fun (unless I were also drunk).

[Momarie]

Simone, if you substitute the word "many" with the words "one in a million" then you might be right.

It happens a lot more than you think or would like to admit.

[Jenniferathome]

Jennifer, I respect your opinion. But then tell me why is there are SO many links at the bottom of this website?, ESP.:
//http://www.cdrelationship.com/ & http://www.crossdressingrelationship.com/ ?

You don't see these kinds of ads at the bottom of the WSJ, or WP....

I don't run this site, but links at the bottom of a page (I have never noticed these links until today) do not infer meaning upon the users of that site. I have no doubt it has occurred, but it is the exception, not the rule.

[sometimes_miss]

"It isn't mainly the lies or secrets that cause our relationship problems"
Right. It's the loss of attraction. Romantic, couple relationships are all based on sexual attraction. When that's gone, so with it usually goes the love. And when the love is gone, there's simply no reason to stay together in a woman's mind, especially when you add the feelings of being deceived to it. Change yourself from a masculine man, to a feminine one, and you pretty much have changed who you are to any woman you are in a romantic and/or sexual relationship. And bingo, it's either over, or the beginning of the end.

[Simone_40]

I don't run this site, but links at the bottom of a page (I have never noticed these links until today) do not infer meaning upon the users of that site. I have no doubt it has occurred, but it is the exception, not the rule.

Jennifer, You are actually telling me that someone who has made 3,302 posts NEVER looked at all of the links at the bottom of this website until today & saw the many links for CD's who want to 'DATE'(?) other CD's???
Who owns this website? We all KNOW who THEY are, and they are making tons of $$$ from these websites.

[Jenny Elwood]

Hi All

Since I seem to have become the topic of some of this discussion, (well see the post of my dear wife Lidea and Tinkerbell) I will break my silence. First off, though I sometimes in the past struggled with feelings of actually wanting to be a woman, I have put that behind me, and moved on to accepting myself as "only a crossdresser". I know I can never be a woman, either physically, emotionally or spiritually, nor do I want to be. Just as it is taxing for me to be a man all of the time, it would be a 100 times worse to be expected to be that all of the time. I am not a woman, full stop. Transition mransition.

When I transform into Jenny I do like to put on the full persona though. Yes I do like to dress all the way. Yes I do like to look in the mirror and see a girl staring back at me. Yes I do like to feel pretty and appreciated. I do like to adopt female mannerisms because at that time I do not like to act like a "dude in a dress". Why I cannot tell you because I don't know myself. For those moments I feel whole, I feel alive, I feel ecstatic which I rarely do otherwise. Why? Because those moments are so rare, so few and far between, so short. Will I experience those moments if I dressed full time or even more? Certainly not, no-one can feel like that all the time, and excuse the pun but it'll only become a drag.

I do however know that it is still just a superficial act, and that I can never fathom the full extent of female emotions, thoughts and feelings. Maybe others on this forum reckon they can, but I know I fall far short of true femininity. True femininity lies not in what you wear, how you look, how you act, how you speak, it lies in what you think, what you feel, how you regard others and act towards them. When it comes to these things I really am just a "dude in a dress".

So dressing three times a month is enough, and since I'm putting myself out there anyway, I'll go the whole nine yards and say three times a month would be more than what I've done since "The (mis)adventures of Jenny". Now I'll be in trouble again, hope the next "Jenny night" survives...

I do like to dress at home though. Why? Convenience? I suppose so. Saving on hotel bills? Yes you caught me. The truth? Company. I really really enjoy your company whether I be J... or Jenny. I like to share my live with you, all of it and I understand it might be a bit much for you to stomach when I'm dressed as Jenny. I also thank you that you have found it in your heart to accommodate Jenny when everything in you scream out against it. It is and always will be appreciated.

So don't fret, I am still the man you married, well most of the time. I "visit" because I prefer your company a hundred times over to what's at the gay bar I'd be banished to otherwise. I love you, I want to be with you, I just cannot be what you want me to be all the time.

[Lidea]

Jenny
Glad you joined in the discussion.
Sorry to hear that you will be in trouble again. And why would your Jenny night not survive??
You leave us confused

[Jenny Elwood]

Hi dear. You know me, always trying to stir the pot... You mos know by now: Crossdressing would be tragic if it was so funny, or is that funny if it wasn't so tragic. I'm getting confused...

[PaulaQ]

@Simone_40 - Although I think that most of the CDs here are straight, there are plenty of CDs (more than the girls here like to admit) that want to date, or experiment with a man or another CD. There's no question about that - perusing CL or various dating sites specializing in TG girls readily confirms this. I don't know if it's bisexuality, or maybe desperation, because finding a woman who wants a CDer is difficult.

But yeah, it's one of the little things girls on this site tend to downplay. I don't think it's the majority of CDs or anything close to that, but it's way more common than folks here admit. (The other one that's downplayed is that some of us transition.)

I don't know how common it is for CDers to cheat on their spouses with a guy or other CD, I wouldn't think that was anything like the majority, but I'm sure it happens sometimes, probably more commonly than people here admit. Definitely more than one in a million!

[Simone_40]

I think that was one of the things that made her so certain I'd transition, even though I didn't want to believe it myself. She'd seen things that I'd overcome in my past, and when I told her "My gender issues are beyond my ability to stop - I can not suppress them anymore, I must follow this through, where ever it leads, and what ever the cost, or I will surely die," she knew that whatever it was that I faced, it was serious, earnestly serious. She also knew that I'd never put anything before our relationship - until the moment I said "where ever it leads, and what ever the cost."
at all.

My poor wife was right, and I was an arrogant fool.

PaulaQ, Congrats on your 24 yrs. of sobriety. As far as when you told your wife,"where ever it leads, and what ever the cost.", I basically said the same thing to my Beautiful wife, albeit I never thought those words would come out of my mouth when we fell in love and got married. I, too was an arrogant fool, and I lost the best thing that ever happened to me because my CD'ing urge ultimately became something I couldn't control.

It must be really difficult if you been married for a while like 10 to 20 years then halfway through that marriage you become a crossdresser, how you tell your wife that must be hard because I don't think she would believe you and probably think you been lying the entire time.

Honesty is always the best policy, if your one that's going to get married then all this stuff should come out before the marriage or if your dating someone then just be open and honest about it all that way your partner can make his or her own mind up for what to do next

CrossJess, When my wife found out about Simone, she asked, "WHAT else have you been lying to me about?" Yup, I should have told her BEFORE we got married, then she would not have felt so betrayed and devastated.

Paula I think some wives would wish their partners were on a different planet !
Tinkerbell brings up the point about the sexual content, this is my problem. You may or may not have caught previous comments I've made on this but I've always had that close link. I have put my wife in a bit of a dilemma because she is coming to terms with my CDing and has chosen to keep the marriage together, but during our last talk we both realised and agreed that if I didn't have the constraints of CDing I would probably have had affairs. Most issues in our marriage are compatible apart from this one, we both accept she's not intersested ! I'm not sure how she feels about that but I feel rejected, I only have CDing to turn to.
I posted a thread in Loved Ones about honesty, really it doesn't come in black and white but various shades of grey ! Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth !!

Teresa, You said, "we both realised and agreed that if I didn't have the constraints of CDing I would probably have had affairs." I never cheated on my wife, because I kept the PROMISE I made to her in our Marriage Vows, but the thought of dating another did cross my mind many times while I became Simone. I think she was a mind-reader. I miss her, still.

On reading the subject line of your post, Paula, I was quite prepared to take issue. After reading the rest of your post, I have to agree with you. I don't blame CDs wives and SOs in the least for feeling betrayed, deceived, and deathly afraid of their future married state. I've seen more than one CDer come out of the closet, get out the door, start HRT, and completely destroy their marriage. What on earth did you expect?

Lynn Marie, I don't blame my Beautiful ex-wife one iota for feeling betrayed & deceived, because that's exactly what I did to her.

Dressing can cause a problem, but loss of trust by lying, deceit and cheating, do the most damage.

Beverly, she never trusted me again-in any manner of what I said or where I'd been? I lost her her trust in me, thus I lost her.

....Let's face it - you're throwing a bigger social spanner into a relationship than the alcoholic, cheating, bipolar dude. At least people will sympathise if you marry one of them...

Tinkerbell, my (Jerk of a) ex-friend that I mentioned in another Thread whose wife found out he'd been Gay his entire life = hurt wife & ugly divorce was also an alcoholic, cheating, bipolar dude. Those additional undesirable behaviors just added much salt to his wife's WOUNDS.

It's certainly true to say it's a pretty extreme test of one's relationship.

Megan, I truly tested ours & I FAILED the test. F-!
Kisses,
Simone

[Teresa]

Simone if anything extra-marital happened It would would have been in male mode !

[Simone_40]

Simone if anything extra-marital happened It would would have been in male mode !

Teresa,
Not quite right. Again, see the links @ the bottom of this website. Check out the many links for CD's wanting to 'DATE(?)' other CD's. That means they are dressed en femme, and wanting to 'hook-up' with another man (dressed en femme or not).
Kisses,
Simone

[Charla McBee]

I know it can be extremely difficult but I feel that absolute upfront honesty is the only way to build a lasting marriage and avoid all of this trouble. You might have to suffer through some very lonely years before you find someone who can love ALL of you as you are but that person is out there. I told my wife about my crossdressing before we even started dating again, we had been close friends since we were kids and didn't want to have secrets anymore. She got to see me fully dressed several times before we were married. I was terrified and she certainly had to get used to it but we worked through it together and now it's no big deal for either of us. My mannerisms do change in subtle ways but I don't need to be dressed to flip into girl mode, it just happens. At my core I am still me and she sees that.

Where ever you happen to fall on the crossdressing or transgender spectrum, this is something that is simply too big to just dump on your SO after the fact. If you are hiding such a big part of yourself from them for so long, your SO's are falling in love with a lie. That man they can't see anymore when you put on a dress never really existed anyway. Fully sharing yourself should be a key component of any truly loving relationship.

I also understand that we didn't all know exactly what we are when we were standing at the altar and many of us still don't quite know. For my own part, it was about six months into my marriage when I really started getting introspective and came to realize that I am some degree of transgender and probably always have been. However I remained honest and open through the whole process and ultimately nothing has changed. We don't keep secrets from each other. I have always been and will always remain the person she married no matter where this path takes me and she has the courage to recognize that. We have both always accepted and supported each other as we are; we've been through too much together.