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Thread: Beware What You Wish For

  1. #26
    Senior Member StephanieC's Avatar
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    I really appreciate all your comments. And Eryn, I am impressed by your homework!

    My apologies for being somewhat obtuse on this. Let me be more specific:
    1. I have a job offer that allows me to choose one of two locations in California. I've topped out at my current job (but I don't really care) but for a number of reasons, that job is devoid of passion....I want to feel the passion again. The new job offers a chance to get in on the ground level and build a group (and the company). I didn't seek this opportunity out...they came to me.
    2. My wife has stated that she will not move nor temporarily relocate. She says this is because she just found a new full-time job after 2.5 years doiing temping. She may reconsider in a year. My kids are on their own (though they do not have families), 1 2 hrs away, and one 7 hrs. I am not selling my house at this time (for a number of reasons).
    3. I currently live in a small suburb of a fairly large city. My current commute is about 10 min (if I obey the speed limit). It's about 10 minutes to my Mom and 15 to the nearby large city. I can walk to farmer's markets, grocery, and restaurants.
    4. I am not the best with crowds nor heat
    5. For this move, I've considered a strategy of "live one day at a time". Most of my live has been heavily planned but I'm afraid trying to do that will severely stress me. Besides...it's good practice for retirement.
    6. I don't feel the need to be stealth with this move. There will be no one to tell me that my boobs show through my top and no one to try in vain to convince the waitress that I'm not a woman every time she comes to ask how "you ladies" are doing. The job is one exception...my reputation is as a guy so that's how I was hired: at least for the beginning, the job will need to be stealth. My wife considers me "a he/she". She is convinced I will go "off the deepend" and will meet another girfriend or "he/she". She says this "matter of factly".
    7. There are lots of interesting coincidences in conjunction with the timing of this opportunity and related things in my life. It's almost like I'm being guided. Or maybe I'm interpreting that.

    So yes, perhaps there is some fantasy in this. But I think this is much more complicated than a trivial assessment. I say I am not running away, that I am attracted to opportunities...but the truth is probably a mix of both. I do feel this is an opportunity I should not pass up.

    I really appreciate all the comments, suggestions, and challenges. This can be life-changing so any input is welcome.

    -stephani

  2. #27
    Just A Simple Girl Michelle.M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    "All generalities are false"....

    False

    This statement of course cannot be true..
    oh, my brain is already hurting!


    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    And stealth for late transitioners is a fantasy.
    Sorry to hear that. Reality must suck!
    I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.

  3. #28
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    yes reality does kind of suck..

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    yes reality does kind of suck..
    Lucky for us your reality is not necessarily our reality. Life is what you make it.

  5. #30
    Senior Member Suzanne F's Avatar
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    Stephani
    Good luck deciding. I live about 30 minutes from Sonoma. I don't think you could imagine a more beautiful life and culture. Plus you would be very close to our favorite place in the world, San Francisco. You can join us in our adventures as we find our place out in the big world!
    Suzanne

  6. #31
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    I yi yi yi

    You know jorja what a condescending and careless thing to say...what a clichéd, easy and lazy thing to say...
    where do you see the idea of "me" or "I" in anything we are talking about? we are talking in generalities

    Reality sucks because no matter what I have made of my life(which is pretty darn good), my kid can have a debilitating disease, or my mom can be dead, or my ex can have lyme disease..or people die in wars, or starve..
    I guess that's their fault because hey, life is what you make of it

    I'm glad that you are such a strong person that has made a wonderful life for yourself... so you are right, your reality is just awesome
    Last edited by Kaitlyn Michele; 07-22-2014 at 08:11 AM.

  7. #32
    heaven sent celeste26's Avatar
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    Too bad there is no job offer for the Pacific Northwest, because it is paradise here.
    Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. Mark Twain

  8. #33
    Member Kimberly Kael's Avatar
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    Reality sucks and is amazingly wonderful in ways beyond measure. We choose what to focus on in life, and that makes a huge difference in how we perceive the world around us. I've been told over and over again by friends that I am the luckiest person they know. I tend to believe that has a lot to do with the choices I make, and not some cosmic conspiracy against everyone else. Sure, there is such a thing as good fortune, but it tends to offer a helping hand rather than being absolutely determinative.

    Quote Originally Posted by celeste26 View Post
    Too bad there is no job offer for the Pacific Northwest, because it is paradise here.
    Following opportunity makes far more sense than lamenting that it isn't exactly the opportunity you hoped for. The Pacific Northwest is nice enough, but California isn't bad either. I've lived in and loved both.
    Last edited by Kimberly Kael; 07-22-2014 at 09:28 AM.
    ~ Kimberly

    “To escape criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." - Elbert Hubbard

  9. #34
    Just A Simple Girl Michelle.M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    You know jorja what a condescending and careless thing to say...what a clichéd, easy and lazy thing to say...
    No. What is condescending and careless is the assertion that what is true for one person is true for everyone.

    We all have similar struggles but we do not all experience them in the same way or to the same degree. And while it is unrealistic (and possibly harmful to their expectations of the realities of transition) to let someone think that they'll have no issues with transition it is equally unrealistic to say something like "Passing for late transitioners is a fantasy".

    On the one hand, it's an unreachable fantasy goal. On the other hand, transition becomes a hopeless endeavor without a decent future. And this, when the reality of one's presentability is yet to be known!

    This generalization, this "If it's true for me then it must be true for everyone" mentality does nothing except validate the speaker's own challenges or problems. And anyone who challenges that assertion is regarded with suspicion and is either deluded, misguided, in denial or in collusion with whatever imaginary forces are against us.

    And you know what? Nowhere do I see this mentality more readily expressed than in the trans community. It's counterproductive. It's not helpful, and probably harmful.
    I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.

  10. #35
    . Aprilrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle.M View Post
    "Passing for late transitioners is a fantasy".
    No one said "passing for late transitioners was a fantasy."

    What I said and what Kaitlyn reiterated was "STEALTH for late transitioners is a fantasy."

    It doesn't matter how well you pass, eventually you're going to have to disclose your past to someone, Most likely a close friend or a significant other then your "stealth" goes out the window.

    Even Jorja has had to deal with this issue. She posted a thread a couple of years ago about a guy who was interested in her, I believe he was a local politician? Anyway the thread was about how she had invited him over to tell him about her past. How'd that turn out Jorja? I never did hear.

  11. #36
    Just A Simple Girl Michelle.M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aprilrain View Post
    No one said "passing for late transitioners was a fantasy."

    What I said and what Kaitlyn reiterated was "STEALTH for late transitioners is a fantasy."
    OK, I see the distinction, but we’re starting to split hairs. If one is not passable then there is no stealth. If one is passable then surrendering one’s own stealth is not necessarily an imperative.

    My issue is with the statement of opinion as an absolute fact. The statement “stealth for late transitioners is a fantasy." is an example. It just isn’t so. It is for some, but not for others.

    People live in stealth all the time at every stage of life. But you wouldn’t know it - because they’re living in stealth! It’s kinda like the statement about the validity of a conspiracy theory - that you can’t prove it is evidence that it exists. (I know, a weird analogy, but you get the idea of the circular argument)

    You don’t have to be here very long to see the common use of absolutes presented as reality. I’ve been here a few years and over that time I’ve seen one generalization after another espoused on this site, and every time with near prophetic authority. Here are just a few of the hits we all love -

    “You can’t possibly know your gender identity until you begin RLE.”

    “There’s something wrong with a man who wants to date a trans woman.” (usually referring to pre-op, but occasionally applied to ANY trans woman)

    “There’s something wrong with a trans woman who wants to date men.”

    “There’s something wrong with a trans woman who wants to date.”

    And about our bodies (including this passability thing, which we needn’t revisit at this moment) -

    “There’s something wrong with anyone who wants FFS (or BA or any type of improvement not earned by hormones alone).”

    “Your gender transition is not valid unless (or until) you undergo GRS.” and related to “If you don’t want GRS, then you’re not really trans.”

    And my all-time favorite -

    “You pre-op girls simply have no clue as to what transition is all about. Transition doesn’t REALLY begin until after GRS.”

    What a toxic line of BS that is!

    You know what these statements all have in common?

    They have all been promoted on this site, some more often than others.

    They’re all true - for someone. But they are treated as if they are true for everyone.

    They are all STATEMENTS and not opinions. They’d be much more useful if they began with phrases such as “In my opinion . . .” or “Well, this is only true for me, but . . .” or “Here’s something I’ve thought / felt / experienced that you might find helpful . . .”

    But no! These things get thrown out as if they were written in stone by the very hand of God, and woe be unto her who challenges these facts!

    Rubbish.
    Last edited by Michelle.M; 07-22-2014 at 11:42 AM.
    I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.

  12. #37
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    Kaitlyn,
    Condescending, careless, and lazy? Hardly! While transition is nothing I would want to put my worst enemy through, for anyone who needes to go through it, I would gladly help them through.

    While reality does suck for almost every person alive Trans or Cis gendered, those of us that do go through transition need to understand that life is going to go on with or without us. As long as there are people, there are going to be wars. There is going to be death. As long as there is disease, people are going to die from disease. As long as there is life, there is going to be death. Just because you are transsexual does not exclude or include you from anything. It is totally up to YOU to make your life work for you. No one is going to do it for you. Now you can sit on the couch and cry that life isn’t fair but guess what? Life doesn’t care!

  13. #38
    Silver Member Starling's Avatar
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    Am I alone in fearing this thread has taken a turn into Kafkaland?

    Lallie
    Time for a change.

  14. #39
    Just A Simple Girl Michelle.M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starling View Post
    am i alone in fearing this thread has taken a turn into kafkaland?
    rotflmao
    I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.

  15. #40
    Member Valerie's Avatar
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    rotflmao indeed!
    But back to StephanieC...
    I have been thinking about you for a few days. I know from experience that a move such as you describe can be exciting, but also distressing. It has always helped me to recognize that it is not a choice between good and bad, but options for different lives about which one cannot predict much. Two tricks have helped me, and I pass them along for what they may be worth: 1) Tune in to what I deeply want [where there is passion] and then make a mental list of all the good sides of that choice [I was taught this one by a high school music teacher years ago]; and 2) jump in and don't ever look back.
    Cheers,
    Valerie

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle.M View Post
    ...
    You don’t have to be here very long to see the common use of absolutes presented as reality. I’ve been here a few years and over that time I’ve seen one generalization after another espoused on this site, and every time with near prophetic authority. Here are just a few of the hits we all love -

    “You can’t possibly know your gender identity until you begin RLE.”

    “There’s something wrong with a man who wants to date a trans woman.” (usually referring to pre-op, but occasionally applied to ANY trans woman)

    “There’s something wrong with a trans woman who wants to date men.”

    “There’s something wrong with a trans woman who wants to date.”

    And about our bodies (including this passability thing, which we needn’t revisit at this moment) -

    “There’s something wrong with anyone who wants FFS (or BA or any type of improvement not earned by hormones alone).”

    “Your gender transition is not valid unless (or until) you undergo GRS.” and related to “If you don’t want GRS, then you’re not really trans.”

    And my all-time favorite -

    “You pre-op girls simply have no clue as to what transition is all about. Transition doesn’t REALLY begin until after GRS.”

    What a toxic line of BS that is!

    You know what these statements all have in common?

    They have all been promoted on this site, some more often than others.

    They’re all true - for someone. But they are treated as if they are true for everyone.

    They are all STATEMENTS and not opinions. They’d be much more useful if they began ...
    it's a good list and it illustrates your point well. I think it's too bad that people can't see generalities for what they are, though, and to keep them in proper context. Attacking a generality is a debating technique that's vastly overused. The poorest use of all is to simply use it as a trigger to discuss exceptions. There are always exceptions to generalities. The only thing accomplished is sidetracking the discussion into rhetoric. (Definitions anyone?)

    Your point is, of course, that many of the statements you cite are not meant as generalities. To that I say sometimes yes, sometimes no. There are versions of even your favorite, for instance, that I can accept - minimally as a hypothetical. The wording with this one often hangs people up. I reject the notion outright that transition itself begins after SRS, for example. But I don't believe that is what is meant. I think the usual meaning is that there are aspects of transition which are not invoked until SRS. As a fundamental theme of the entire exercise is congruence, it is not a stretch for me to believe that there might be something psychological going on here. So someone makes a statement like that… What shall I do? Protest the language? Beg the exception? What (and whose) interest is being served by this? If the generality is true (i.e., as a generality), the largest portion of the readership is best served leaving it as it is. And perhaps everyone would be better served by taking the few exceptions off-line, as it is the discussion of exceptions that is splitting hairs, not additional commentary on the generality itself.

    Naturally, when the context is insufficient to clarify intent, all bets are off. If someone wants to make a generalized statement about men who like to date pre-op trans women and the context is fetishists and the risk of being dropped like a stone, the generalization gets no argument from me. The discussion about online dating sites is often about precisely this. Someone who issues the generalization in response to an innocent dating question out of nowhere is perhaps being preachy.

    I find I have to over-caveat my writing here. There are too many hypersensitivities. They are not one-sided.
    Lea

  17. #42
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorja View Post
    Kaitlyn,
    Condescending, careless, and lazy? Hardly! While transition is nothing I would want to put my worst enemy through, for anyone who needes to go through it, I would gladly help them through.

    While reality does suck for almost every person alive Trans or Cis gendered, those of us that do go through transition need to understand that life is going to go on with or without us. As long as there are people, there are going to be wars. There is going to be death. As long as there is disease, people are going to die from disease. As long as there is life, there is going to be death. Just because you are transsexual does not exclude or include you from anything. It is totally up to YOU to make your life work for you. No one is going to do it for you. Now you can sit on the couch and cry that life isn’t fair but guess what? Life doesn’t care!
    so how does this jibe with "life is what you make of it"?? so you agree now that life generally sucks? (and doesn't even care!!) I couldn't have said that better myself...

    You said my reality (the one that sucks) is different than yours (the one that doesn't apparently)...
    now its preaching about how life is not fair and it doesn't care ......how wonderful!! it turns out that you agree life pretty much sucks..

    If you ever read any of my posts you'd know that i am highly focused on personal responsibility and ownership of one's actions

    ...but life isn't just what you make of it, there is so much more to it than that...and much of our time ends up being about dealing with what life makes for you..
    and that's why I found your comment (especially in the context of this thread) lazy, careless and condescending....

  18. #43
    Just A Simple Girl Michelle.M's Avatar
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    Lea, thank you for your thoughtful comments. I like it when I get to let my mind process others' thoughts on how I see things.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaP View Post
    I reject the notion outright that transition itself begins after SRS, for example. But I don't believe that is what is meant.
    Actually that is a direct quote from a former member, and she was not the only one who has endorsed that notion. Yes, she actually said that transition doesn't really begin until you're post-op, and told pre-op girls that they didn't know anything about transition until then.

    Perhaps true for her, but definitely not true for anyone who's getting her money's worth in a constructive RLE. I should hope that would describe most of us.
    I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.

  19. #44
    Member ronny0's Avatar
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    As a child I wish we had not moved, though not often it was enough that I never formed long term contacts.
    As an adult, I stayed in a area that I have grown to hate. Now trying to get up the courage to move to a more normal area.
    My advice would be, if you have REALLY STRONG connections with friends and family, you will really miss that in a new location
    But if it is easy for you to make new friends and you have no major connections MOVE!
    The ability to move and have a fresh start is something most would want.
    The loss of close friends is something most would not want.
    For me, I 'wish' I had lived in the same town all my life, where everyone knows and accepts you for who you are.
    Naturally that is only a wish....

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle.M View Post
    Lea, thank you for your thoughtful comments. I like it when I get to let my mind process others' thoughts on how I see things.

    Actually that is a direct quote from a former member ...
    Yikes, and YOUR brain is hurting? That opener is delightfully ambiguous. I'm completely knocked off balance! Congratulations!

    Yeah, I know some of them mean it. The only point I can plead is these aren't trading in generalities that require the caveats you suggest to account for exceptions. Rather, they are dictums that require additional absolutist language so as not to confuse the rest of us into thinking they are generalities!

    There … I believe with that, I have saved rhetorical face. Back to your brain…
    Lea

  21. #46
    Silver Member Inna's Avatar
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    I hate to intervene in otherwise heated debate of what and how life sucks or otherwise doesn't. HOWEVER, and this is no longer anyone's opinion but a science fact....well sort of because even science is baffled, as with quantum observations, reality is only as real as the attempt of the observer to measure or decipher the reality at hand, the minute the observer stops observing the reality known by observation no longer exist!!

    So in layman terms, reality is quite what we make it to be.

  22. #47
    Member Kimberly Kael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronny0 View Post
    The ability to move and have a fresh start is something most would want.
    So true! I moved 2000 miles away to another country when I was 21 and it was an incredibly empowering experience. I didn't care for the city, mind you, but learning that I really could simply pack up and move meant everything. I've moved four times since then, usually pursuing job opportunities that happened to be somewhere interesting. Every time I got better at making new connections and researching what I was getting into before I made the jump, but the most important aspect was the sense of self-sufficiency I gained as a result of taking that chance.
    ~ Kimberly

    “To escape criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." - Elbert Hubbard

  23. #48
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inna View Post
    I hate to intervene in otherwise heated debate of what and how life sucks or otherwise doesn't. HOWEVER, and this is no longer anyone's opinion but a science fact....well sort of because even science is baffled, as with quantum observations, reality is only as real as the attempt of the observer to measure or decipher the reality at hand, the minute the observer stops observing the reality known by observation no longer exist!!

    So in layman terms, reality is quite what we make it to be.
    uh oh... sounds like my cousins quantum physics

    does not our mere observation cause the reality we are observing to change?

    what about all the other realities that coexist with our supposed current reality?? time for some meds

  24. #49
    Silver Member Inna's Avatar
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    what meds, you mean my friendly friends who visit me in white lab coats and those candy they give me.......

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