Boys Will be Boys

[JocelynRenee]

As a bi-gendered individual I love both my female and my male qualities, but sometimes it's embarrassing to be a male.

Last weekend my wife and I went to a local casino that featured a very good band. I love to dance, especially to live music. I don't dance here, though, because the bar is not GLBT and men here tend to be a bit outgoing shall we say. I do have the pleasure of people watching, though, and watching the course, inept lurching of some of these guys is entertaining - as long as it stays at arms length.

While playing the penny slots and doing a little "chair dancing" I heard a repeated, "Hey baby, want to take my picture?" When I finally bit and turned around there stood a middle-age man holding an empty picture frame in front of his grinning face. He actually sat at home and put actual thought into this scheme. Then he actually thought it was a winning idea and actually brought an empty picture frame and followed through with this plan. I really do enjoy being a man, but I don't understand these clumsy attempts at connecting with women. Never have.

As many times as I have lamented my bi-gendered nature I have always appreciated the fact that it has given me a unique insight into relating to women. Not because it allows me to understand what it's like to be a woman (it doesn't), but because it gives me a bird's-eye view into what it should be to be a man.

[GeminaRenee]

Funny, I've had similar thoughts.

As a guy, I've never been one for picking women up, in the way that we're apparently supposed to. I feel awkward and clumsy and toolish at it, and am much more comfortable letting an interaction develop over time, and through genuine behavior. So, this other approach has always seemed foreign to me. Not that I've watched it all that closely as a guy. I'm generally oblivious to that sort of thing.

Having gone out in public dressed a few times now, I've been exposed to it - specifically on the receiving end. All I can say about it is an exasperated "ughhhh." All the stories I've heard women tell seemed to come to life. Some lines were just goofy and silly, and fell harmlessly to the floor. Others were crude and offensive, and left me embarrassed to share a gender with the perpetrators.

The whole experience has left me glad that I was built without that mode of operation as a functional part of my personality. No wonder women often become so jaded and indifferent. On the plus side though, as you say, it's a great window of insight into doing things the right way.

[MarcyRex]

Excellent observation and thoughts. I never cared for the crude locker talk either. I am not impressed with the gorilla chest thumping braggarts.

[sometimes_miss]

Hey, there are no classes for boys on how to approach women. And none for dating. And none for kissing. And none for sex. We're just somehow magically supposed to know how to be experts at doing it, and we're held responsible for it all, and when we screw up, it's always assumed to be our own fault, while everyone else gets a good laugh at our expense. Dancing? I see, you laugh at other guy's inability to automatically know how to do it. Just like other guys do, and girls do as well. It's always fun to make fun of the awkward guy out on the dance floor isn't it? So let me ask you, exactly how is he supposed to know how to dance (unless of course he took lessons, which of course is also verboten for men as it's a girly thing to do)?

It took me until I was in my twenties to figure out what women wanted in a guy, another few years to develop the skills to make me a good man to date. And yes, i took dancing lessons when I figured out that was one skill that women really wer attracted to, but even then had to keep it a secret because it was something that 'real men' didn't have to do. Then it took me another few decades to figure out which women to ask out, as i had no idea about how to read all the little non verbal clues as to which ones were interested in me. And I also learned that about 99% of men have no clue about that either. So stop looking down on your fellow man. We're basically all out there on our own.

[Marcelle]

Hi Jocelyn,

To begin. I am not hacking on your post just making some observations about judgement calls. As a TG/CD gal who goes out in public, I abhor people who make judgement calls about me based on how I look or act (e.g., freak, weirdo, pervert)as they do not know my mind set or anything about me. So I try to cut people the same slack unless I know something about that person.

Okay . . . I agree the pick-up line / prop was a bit on the lame side but then again we don't really know what was going on in this guy's mind. He could have been drunk, may have lost a bet or just truly thought he was being cute/charming. Unfortunately, not all men can waltz into a room with James Bond finesse and charm all the ladies into bed with a winning smile, wit and rather generous expense account. Now if he had been wandering around being rude to women (or people for that matter) "Hey baby great T&A want to go back to my room?" then he is a jerk, plain and simple. I would not let "Mr Jerky McJerkmeister" make me embarrassed to be male, I would call him on it. In a way, "Mr Picture Frame" is a "what you see is what you get" guy, a bit weird in his own way but if a woman decides to move past the cheesy pickup line she may find a great guy, then again she may not . . . at least she can decide quite easily. However, if a "Mr Enrico Suave" was to waltz in with an award winning smile and every word he utters is followed with doves flying out of his mouth all in an attempt to bed a woman then never call her again . . . he is more of a douche than "Mr Picture Frame" IMHO.

I like to people watch and in the past I will admit . . . judgemental of others . . . GUILTY AS CHARGED. However, since coming out in public "en femme" who am I to judge? Heck we are guys who wear dresses and I am sure it is obvious for most of us (it is for me) so I guess we can expect other men will look at us and say "Ugh . . . I am so embarrassed to be a male sometimes"

As for dancing . . . well not everyone is born with great rhythm but you do have to admire those who go out and do their thing knowing full well it is not their forte . . . dancing is about having fun . . . isn't it?

Hugs

Isha

[Connie D50]

Great job Isha you said it the best. Sometimes--miss I too wish that they had classes on all that stuff it would make it better for both women and men. :-) Connie

[AnneC]

Actually I think that is pretty funny. The guy should get some credit for being clever if not very cool.

[Jocelyn Quivers]

Hi Jocelyn! Let me start by saying I really love your name! I must admit the line was kind of whack, but it's almost so whack that in some way I could almost seeing it work in a so bad it's good kind of corniness. Maybe succeeding in 1 in every 50 rejections. I can still recount back to my single days being equally as awkward though I never used a line or any line like that. More the standard, want to dance, can I get you a drink, hi, all followed by the no thanks, girls night, I'm a lesbian, my boyfriend's in the bathroom, etc.

In sympathy and defense of men of which I still am as of now. Most are not the alpha male who is born with confidence, knows how to dance, has women approaching him, has no fear, or concerns when approaching women, does not have to think about pick lines etc. Since meeting and marrying my wife, of course I have the confidence now, and seemingly do get hit on a lot, which I contribute it all to being married, knowing I'm loved and appreciated, which causes me to subconsciously appear confident to others.

I always consider and still do consider it easier said than done to approach women and face rejection especially if you are a more shy reserved type which I am. So I give that guy and A for effort, wish him luck, especially while being middle aged, my singles/appearing repulsive to all women phase took place during my early 20's, having the benefit of youth, and usually having friends with me when I braved the bar/night club scene. It might be very different trying to do so now, especially if I was divorced, cheated on, or had never been with a woman in the past couple of decades etc.

[Chari]

"Necessity is the mother of invention" and you observed an individual that may have had good intentions but was (has been) always rejected. His uniqueness should be IMO commended for presenting a "different" approach to a common issue. Enjoy.

[JocelynRenee]

I appreciate the responses and especially the comments about not judging. After re-reading my post I realized that I left out a part of the story that may have created confusion. Firstly, I wasn't in the club and could not see anyone dancing. Not sure why some thought I was making fun of anyone dancing, but that's not the case. I don't make fun of people. It's small and unbecoming.

The part I left out was the guy with the picture frame was a stalker. At first I thought it was cute; I even took his picture, told him he got points for originality, and kindly declined his advances. He then moved on to every woman in sight, started his rounds again, and then decided my wife and I actually were interested, we just didn't know better.

Being a guy myself, I get that women don't come with manuals and that figuring out the whole dating thing is harder than trigonometry. That said, his behavior is unacceptable in my eyes. He had no interest in me as a person; his goal was simply to find a willing victim. He also didn't appear to be drunk, but how does intoxication make his behavior any more attractive? If he's lonely I have some advice for him. Stop treating women like meat. If you want a woman to think you are interested in her as a person, then you probably shouldn't let her see you try the same line on a dozen others right in front of her. And finally, when a woman politely declines your advances, respect her wishes and don't follow her around.

[Lynn Marie]

"Pickup lines" are for immature fools just out to get laid. Maturity brings with it a genuine interest in others and an adult understanding of the foolishness of trying to impress people. Nobody cares about you unless you genuinely care about them. And that's just the first step.

[NicoleScott]

...the whole dating thing is harder than trigonometry...

Yes, love triangles are nothing but trouble, especially if you're the hypotenuse.

[Beverley Sims]

I find men clumsy in front of women too.

[GailNightshade]

Once while out at an LGBT club with my SO, i was hit on quite awkwardly by a much older man who after i politely told that i was married to the woman sitting next to me, asked if i was a man then tried to convince me to go to the manly gay bar a few blocks over.(just, no.) My wife found this whole situation hilarious btw

[CynthiaD]

Men are continually looking for the perfect line, the perfect gimmick, that will get every woman in the world to go to bed with them. What amazes me is that so many of them believe that such a thing actually exists.

[ReineD]

Some guys can be quite charming when they express interest in a woman. It's not always cheesy or a turn-off. Maybe a lot has to do with how they look and comport themselves, and whether the woman in question is interested in possibilities. For example when I was a younger woman going out with my girlfriends to bars, clubs and such, of course one of the reasons was the intrigue of possibly meeting someone interesting. Single people have to meet other singles somewhere, right?

So yeah, some guys do approach women in a way that is interesting. My own SO asked me, "You look familiar, have we met?" and this is likely the oldest pick-up line there is! lol. But, he was very cute and I responded with the typical, "I don't know, you look very familiar too" … which then went on to where we respectively worked and hung out, and of course did we know some people in common that would give us the feeling "that we looked familiar", yadda, yadda, yadda. The conversation progressed which was the whole point.

Jocelyn, the guy may have been a stalker, there are definitely creepy people out there, even if they seem creepy to us only because their approach is different than we expect or want. But, I can't blame the guy for wanting to meet girls. Girls do the same except they're more subtle about it. lol. They dress in a becoming way, they smile a lot, they're just as interested in engaging with guys (if they are single and looking for other singles) as guys are. And, had you been someone else (say a single GG) who was actually open-minded to possibilities and had found this guy attractive, likely his approach would not have seemed so off-putting. I personally think it's a bit much to bring an empty picture frame to a casino, but YMMV.

[Sarah Beth]

When I a senior in high school I had a girl I knew who was then in college tell me that girls, for the most part, girls don't like to hear all though lines from males trying to pick them up. She said what they really want is honesty and openness. From that time on I almost always used just that approach, a hello, how are you, and a general conversation without trying to be pushy about it all. Of course on occasion when I had a few and thought I was to cute to pass up I would revert to my old well worn line.. "say didn't we go to different hight schools togther".

[Charla McBee]

When I'm with a group of guys and the subject of women comes up, especially when there is beer on hand, always makes me extremely uncomfortable. For my own part, I never really did any of the stereotypical nonsense in pursuit of getting laid. I always wanted a meaningful relationship, never a one night stand. I first met the woman I married when she ended up sitting next to me in 7th grade. We were both on crutches at the time and through casual conversation I revealed a totally honest image of my weird awkward self. We were friends first then dated on and off as teens before spending five years apart until we finally rekindled things and ended up married.

In our time apart and during the off periods I remained a total wall-flower oblivious to anyone expressing interest in me, always hearing about it from others after the fact. Even with her I wasn't the one to initiate things. I always figured it was largely because I am very close to my mother and grew up with two older sisters that I have never been able to dehumanize women the way many men seem to do. I often ask myself how they can act that way if they have ever known a woman they loved or respected. I'm not condemning all men, I am one myself most of the time after all and I know there are plenty of decent guys out there but sexism and objectification have never made any sense to me.

People often look at me as though I am from another planet when these things come up. It makes more sense now that I know I'm TG though. I'm rarely able to summon this sort of boneheaded stereotypical masculinity. Being bi-gendered like the OP, I too feel like I have a good overview of both sides of the situation. I have too much respect for women to play around with stupid pick-up routines. Even when I was blackout drunk in college I never broke from this.

[ReineD]

girls don't like to hear all though lines from males trying to pick them up.

… except when he's cute and she's interested. Chemistry plays a huge role in this. Then it doesn't matter what he says (as long as it is not offensive), she just wants his attention.

My SO could have told me the worst joke ever as a conversation starter, or given me the cheesiest pick-up line, and I wouldn't have cared. My heart was racing like wildfire just because he was talking to me and I just wanted to lose myself in his eyes.

[LelaK]

My SO could have told me the worst joke ever as a conversation starter, or given me the cheesiest pick-up line, and I wouldn't have cared. My heart was racing like wildfire just because he was talking to me and I just wanted to lose myself in his eyes.

If you'd known he was a CD, would your heart have raced? Do you know of any pickup lines that would work well for a CD?