TS Mortality, With Side Comment on Suicide Rates

[LeaP]

The mortality study didn't say.

[Pink Person]

Conversations about suicide with people who might be prone to suicidal ideation make me EXTREMELY nervous. Appeals to rationality seem so utterly weak. I am left just wanting to scream to anyone who might be having suicidal thoughts JUST DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT FOR ANY REASON!

Does it help? I hope so. My sympathy for TG and TS people is very strong and deep. I want all of them to know that there is always hope for them no matter what pain they are experiencing.

On the subject of gender dysphoria, it seems to me that it is both a condition and the negative consequences that are associated with the condition. It’s not one or the other.

[LeaP]

Appealing to reason with a suicidal person IS weak. But that's not the point of the thread.

Talking ABOUT suicide rationally is critically important. Every major suicide prevention organization stongly supports this. Not talking about it perpetuates myths and taboos ... not just the ones I bring up here, but myths about its immorality, selfishness, craziness, etc., or the myth that it will lead to people commiting suicide.

[DebbieL]

There had been very few attempts to study mortality rates for transsexuals until starting about 2009.
The study that started this thread seems to be focused on those who have actually been treated for gender dysphoria with hormones - with 86.7 % opting for SRS.
The mortality rate of 12% due to all causes was high compared to the general population, but relatively low compared to those who are self-identified transgender and have not transitioned.
I don't see a statistic for homicide victims in the cause of death list.
The sample is also very small - 966 MtF and 365 FtM transse xuals.

Other studies, including some of those cited on Laura's playground include surveys of nearly 1 million respondents, and the statistics are much more alarming.
Mortality rates aren't tracked because respondents were self selected and were not subjected to follow-up status checks.
What was discovered was that there was a much higher percentage of suicide attempts, number of suicide attempts, number of suicide attempts that should have been fatal (vs plea for help).
There was also a much higer incidence of self-destructive behavior such as drug abuse, alcoholism, AIDs, prostitution, and criminal activities - especially among those who did NOT transition.
Laura's also maintains a suicide hotline for those who are transgender and keeps statistics for those calling with desire, ideation (actual plan), implementation (aquiring means), attempts, and lost contacts (not responding to follow-up support calls). These rates were also rather grim compared to more traditional suicide hot-lines.

Being one of those who attempted suicide multiple times using means that should have been effective, I remember here were several factors that were significantly different.
The adage "be yourself" or "to thine own self be true" was particularly painful - I had tried to discuss my gender dysphoria with parents, doctors, nurses, and mental health professionals, including a psychologist I was seeing daily, mental health workers I had been seeing on a daily basis, and marriage counselors. In each case, there was immediate and clear message that I shouldn't even attempt to have the discussion.

My father at first thought it was just "a phase" and would pass.

My mother talked to her therapist she was seeing when I was 6 years old and told her I wanted to be a girl. Mom was told that the treatment would be daily electro-shock therapy (without anesthesia - this was the early 1960s), and if that didn't work - a lobotomy. She was also warned back in 1961 that the mortality rate for gender dysphoria (not what they called it back then), was extremely high, which is why the treatment was so extreme.

Getting bullied for being a sissy didn't help either. I didn't have the limbic response to fight when threatened, and the boys sensed the weakness and exploited it. It's hard enough to deal with 1 or 2 bullies, but when your are being bullied by 12-15 boys in your class of 30 students at lunch, recess, gym, and on the way home from school, the administration didn't want to deal with the paperwork and legal hassles of dealing with the parents of that many boys - especially since many of them were upper middle class and had good lawyers. I was hospitalized with Asthma induced as a direct result of bullying and many times I would go into the hospital and when I switched into the hospital gowns they would ask me if my parents were abusing me because I had so many bruises. I would explain how the other boys had done this, and often the details were so graphic that even trained medical professionals would cringe. I think they kept me in the hospital longer than necessary several times just to spare me a few more days of the abuse.

My grandfather was a fundamentalist Christian and he did his best to dissuade my interests in being a girl with bible readings of various types. At one point, he even read me the passages from Deuteronomy and Leviticus - maybe even all 8 verses - warning me to give up my desire to be a girl. Thank goodness I didn't have to actually live with him, and my mom was a bit of a rebel.

My father eventually told me that he had taken a personality test in college and was told that he was 75% female. He even admitted that he enjoyed doing "girly things" and admitted proudly that he would rather go to a symphony or ballet than a football game or baseball game. He tried to point out that he had turned out all right and was able to continue living as a man and that I could too. But he also admitted that he understood how much I wanted to be a girl, and was sorry that there was nothing he could do.

The psychologist had even stranger responses. He told me "we know you are a girl inside, that you want to be a girl, and you would be happier as a girl, but it's not something that you can change, so we can't even start to talk about it". It had taken every ounce of courage to tell him what he already knew. To find out that I was condemned to spend the rest of my life as a boy was worse than a death sentence. It was more like being sentenced to life in solitary confinement with thrice daily beatings - without the possibility of parole.

When I was 11 I got Chigellossis - it was fatal. My heart even stopped beating for about 3 minutes because my brain had overheated (fever shot to 107 degrees before they could cover my body with towels soaked in ice cubes). When I came back - I was actually angry that they had brought me back.

When my testacles dropped, I tried various ways to castrate myself - tying them off with rubber bands (I'd read they did that with sheep), I even tried a 2x4 and a large hammer - not something I was willing to repeat a third time.

I started having "periods". I don't know what they really were, but about every 4 weeks I would get constipated, then I'd get cramps that were horrible, then sometimes screaming in pain I would push out the "plug" followed by a reddish brown liquid which I now know was bloody stool. My parents knew about this, especially since I woke them up several times. Eventually, mom could predict when I was going to get constipated and would give me ex-lax. I'd still get the cramps and the bloody bowels, but at least they got to sleep at night. It was only when I was 13 and it came out bright red that my parents were alarmed. My mom asked "is he having his period?" My dad's response surprised me,. It wasn't "don't be silly" or "boys don't have periods", it was "no it would be darker". So they took me to the hospital. Even then knowing this, transition was not an option that was even offered.

When I was told that I would be singing bass in the school choir, at 14 years old, I turned to drugs and booze. I'd go into black-outs on a regular basis. I figured that even though my speaking voice was still higher than most girls' I was condemned to live the rest of my life as a man. I still dressed up and my mother knew I still wanted to be a girl, and I still got beat up, but even then there was no chance of reprive.

In high school, everyone assumed I was gay because I was so effeminate. I even had long flowing curly hair.
Fortunately, I ended up making friends with some gays including a couple of guys on the football team and a few guys who wanted to date them. This resulted in my being under their "protection". Of course then, the fear was that if these boys found out that I was a girl, or wanted to be a girl, I would lose that protection and end up going back to the thrice daily beatings and torture.

We often forget that it wasn't until 2013 that the clinical term was changed from Gender Identity Disorder (inability to accept one's birth gender) to Gender Dysphoria (unhappy with one's gender). In the 1960s, a transexual was suffering from a psychotic dilusion that he was a girl inside and had to literally be "shocked" back into accepting (submitting to) the "reality" of his birth gender. In the 1980s, the term "Gender Identity Disorder" made it legal to treat transexuals by giving hormones and SRS surgeries, but even then, many states could revoke a doctor's license and a doctor could lose his hospital priviledges even for just prescribing hormones, let alone performing SRS.

Treatment quality has also improved. Christine Jorgensen had been castrated and emasculated. Even the vaginoplasty was almost a butcher job. When I saw "Sulka's wedding after reading an article about her SRS in the late 1970s, I was astonished to find that what she had didn't look much like a woman at all. It was hard to imagine how she could achive orgasm, since it didn't appear that she had a ciltorus. In 1986, I saw a video about tthe actress named Shannon, who paid for a very complex and expensive experimental procedure in which they were able to give her that bit of equipment. Her own description in the video was that it was extremely painful, especially when they had to configure the nerves with only light local anesthesia because they hadn't yet learned how to reconnect all those nerves in the right configuration. Today, modern SRS is available in several states, and many doctors have full time practices devoted to meeting the needs of the transsexual and transgender community.

Another important shift was the result of known cases of "cyber bullying". After the suicides of a number of children were investigated by distraught parents who saw threats on their child's cell phones or computers, police began routinely reviewing cell and computer records of children who commited suicide and found that an extraordinarily high percentage of male suicides were investigated and police discovered that the boys were gay, bisexual, or transgendered. Often the "trigger" was rejection by the parents, a romantic interest, or being outed to and rejected by former friends and peers.

Remember that it was only about december of 2013 that the American Psychology Association, American Psychiatry Association, and American Medical Association declared that attempting to force a transsexual patient to accept their birth gender was considered UNETHICAL. Even today, many doctors, for religeous, political, or hospital priviledges reasons are often reluctant to treat transgender and transsexual patients even when they have the therapists letters. My family doctor refused to prescribe hormones and would not refer me to an endochrinologist who would. I finally found out that I could drive or take the train for two hours to Philadelphia to see doctors at the Mazzoni center. Upon examination and interviews, they reconfirmed previous diagnosis that I was a "type 6 transsexual" likely to become self destructive if not assisted in transition.

I was first diagnosed in 1988 by a couples therapist. At that time, my wife told him about my dressing, and then told him "he's really not much of a man at all". After 3 hours of private interviews, he told me and my wife that I was at least 95% female and that if I didn't transition, I would probably become self destructive in some way. He then pointed out that I already had throughout my teens and twenties, and even though I was thirty and had several years clean and sober, forcing me to remain as a boy would probably result in some form of early death. Of course, she wasn't a lesbian, or even bisexual, so we ended up getting divorced about 18 months later. Sadly, as a result of threats to lose all contact with my children, I did abort transition and eventually began new modes of self destruction - overeating and more than doubling my "girl weight", having a heart attack, and a stroke - with a standing DNR living will in place.

My second wife knew about Debbie before we even met, and we talked about it via e-mail and phone, and eventually got together. Her daughter pointed out "well mom, at least you won't have to worry about bruising his male ego when he finds out you're in charge of it". Even at our first date, she took charge and I loved it. When we made love the first time, I offered some "toys" and she was delighted, when I made lesbian love to her she loved that even more, and when she realized how small I was and that I really wasn't all that into intercourse, she realized that I was her lesbian lover. She loved my personality, my sense of humor, and my loving ways, as well as my patience, lack of mean temper, and positive outlook. After 1 year we were engaged (she proposed to me) and a year later we were married.

By then I was also "out". I had a facebook account for Debbie as well as an e-mail account, and Lee had told her family about Debbie. When a few women at church asked if I was gay because I was effeminate, she would tell them about Debbie.

When my dad was about to die, I flew out to be with him. Prior to that he had seen Debbie a few times and said "I just don't want to deal with it. I don't want it thrown in my face". I think he thought it was his fault.
When I got there, the first conversation he had was "If I can't give you anything else, I want you to be yourself, even if that's Debbie". Later he told me that he had been following Debbie's postings on facebook and understood that for me, that was the only way I could truly be true to myself. He told me about how they wanted to shock me and turn me into a vegetable. He even told me that he and mom had known for a long time and were afraid that if they tried to get help for that issue, they might lock me up and do the lobotomy. Even for them it was like a secret they had to keep. He even hinted that I was physically "more female than male".

By the time he died, I was clear that I wanted to transition. After that first conversation I started dressing in the femme clothes I had brought with and stuffed in the bottom of my suitcase. For about 4 days, my father was still alert enough to meet his daughter, and he told he how much he loved his wonderful daughter. At the end, when he was delusional, he even thought I was my mother, coming to take him home.

I often cry when I think of how long I wanted my mother and father to meet, know, and love their daughter. I wanted them to love me for who I really was. I realize, from things dad told me in those last days, that they both knew, mom had even taken me shopping to buy clothes for her. She would wear them once, and put them in the good will so that I could "adopt them". It was so covert, so "under the table" but the reality was that even though they didn't understand it, couldn't get me help, and didn't know what to do about it, they loved me. They just didn't want me turned into a vegetable,

When I finally transitioned, I started with a therapist, got the hormones, and by the time I started working full time as female, I couldn't believe I could be so happy. I knew there would still be hurdles to jump, things to be done, and people who might not accept me, but I have been delighted and amazed at how things have turned out. I went to the family Thanksgiving as Debbie, and the family liked me so much that Debbie got all the presents. When they started to apologize for it I started crying and said "That's so wonderful, thank you for NOT getting Rex any presents". When my father-in-law decided to book a vacation tour for the entire family he ordered my ticked for "Debbie" not Rex. He even asked "Can Debbie please come with is!". On the vacation, he frequently wanted to sit with me at Dinner, and on a few occaisions even sat with me and had Lee at another table. We had such a great time, and he just loved the way he could be silly around me. At one point he "proposed" to a watress and she held out her hand, did a courtsey, and said "YES!!". I started to giggle and he looked at me and started giggling himself, then she started giggling. We were all having such a great time together.

And at work, I have also been delighted at how smooth the transition was. I work as a consultant and did one gig as "Rexxie" because I hadn't legally changed my name. At the next gig, I had filed for the name change and they agreed to call me Debbie immediately. My e-mail account was for Debbie and my correspondence was to and from Debbie. I even had a few women giving me coaching, encouraging me to be the nice sweet lady when that worked, but not to be afraid to pull out the riding crop - or the broom, when that was what was needed to get results.

Perhaps the most amazing of all was my 40 year high school reunion. Girls who had known me since elementary school told me "we always considered you one of the girls". They asked me to pose for pictures with them, they wanted me to join them in conversations, they even followed me into the bathroom and started conversations. It was like I had been a girl all my life and I was the only one who didn't know it back then. One of my male classmates came up and asked "did you have the operation". I asked "why, did you want to seduce me?". He grinned and said "well, your are kinda cute". I let him know that I didn't have the equipment he was hoping for, and was happily married and content being the way I was for now. He was pleased to know that my 38C breasts were "all me" (with a bit of help from Victoria's Secret :-).

[Rachel Smith]

Conversations about suicide with people who might be prone to suicidal ideation make me EXTREMELY nervous. Appeals to rationality seem so utterly weak. I am left just wanting to scream to anyone who might be having suicidal thoughts JUST DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT FOR ANY REASON!

Does it help? I hope so.

Pink Person and Lea just to let ya'll know it does help, me at least. It reminds me not to go back to the dark place I was on Christmas Eve 2012.

[DebbieL]

I think that is the most important thing about this site. It gives those who are still struggling and suffering, the experience, strength, and hope of those who have had breakthroughs in this part of our lives, whether that is a completed and successful transition or being at peace with our current state, for now.