Divorced

[Claire Cook]

Dear Paula,

Such a bittersweet situation. It must be so difficult to lose someone you've been with for so long, but as others have said you have your whole new life ahead of you. And who knows what the future may hold? Down the road your paths may cross, and perhaps time will heal some wounds. You've been such a help to us, I just hope we can be some comfort to you.

[mechamoose]

I'm a good man, and I ROCK a skirt.

I'm sorry that she didn't find a way to get past the 'frills' and still understand that you are YOU.

*HUGS*

- MM

[I Am Paula]

Paula, There's still a lot of hurt coming thru, and I hope time will heal that. People will say the divorce is closure, and now you can move on, but it's just not that easy. Keep putting one foot in front of the other, and it will get easier.
My marriage is still in the same holding pattern it has been since I announced my transition, so I never know how far behind you I am.

[Rhonda Jean]

Paula, I hope you can pick up and move on. Sad story.

[Teresa]

Paula you've given me some good advice and offered support ! I don't know how much advice I can give you at the moment but please stay with us at least we can give you some support to get you over your next steps !
Hopefully time will heal your loss and deep hurt you've suffered, sadly the divorce had to happen but the freedom it now gives you offers you another chance in life !
Please take good care of yourself, Teresa.

[flatlander_48]

PQ:

Divorce is one of those things that, even though we KNOW exacting what is coming, it still seems like a big surprise. I guess it is the realization that a specific part of one's life has irrevocably changed. Perhaps a good way to look at this is to think that this is a Low Point and what comes after has to get better. Hope and expectation is always good medicine.

For my own situation with my first wife, a significant part had to do with my coming out as bisexual. It happened by accident, but it became the trigger point for telling the rest of the story. But make no mistake, the relationship had other difficulties. While I can't speak to the transexual part, I will say that upheaval in ones life is always difficult. In our case, the die was really cast about 2/3 of the way through what was eventually a 30 year marriage. However, what I discovered after things were finalized is that I couldn't just dismiss the time that we were married. There's just too much that was shared and lives just get interwoven. So even though I knew that the divorce was entirely appropriate and the right thing to do, it was still a painful experience.

[giuseppina]

I haven't said much, but you've been through a lot of heartache. It was clear to me that once the transgender card was played, your marriage was irreconcilable. Very sad.

[Alice Torn]

PaulaQ. Thank you for sharing your difficult, sad story, but now, a new path begins. Some of us have had very emotionally trying lives, and lots of issues.

[MelanieAnne]

It's tough now. But time heals all wounds, although it may not seem so right now. Just don't make the same mistake so many divorced men make, and run out and get married again! Join some singles activities groups, and go to some singles dances. There are single ski and golf groups. Sailing singles, etc. Women are everywhere. Half the population is single! And beware! Everyone is on their best behavior when you first meet them! Learn to cook. Do not become dependant on women! The odds are even higher against second marriages. And third marriages have about a 75% failure rate!
I was devastated after my divorce. But I had my kids and the house, and it all worked out. Now, after 34 years in the singles scene, and a dozen girlfriends, I would never get married again, under any circumstances! Marriage is just a legal contract. Nothing more. And my ex wifes third husband apparently wasn't as well off as she thought. They are underwater in a large home and both will have to work the rest of their lives, and they both are 70! And me? I'm retired and living well, and spend winters somewhere warm, in the lower latitudes.

[LelaK]

Hi Paula.
Ask your kids to give you a picture of your ex from the vacation, if they have any copies. Or doesn't it mean anything that way? By the way, how are the kids taking your transition? I didn't realize you decided to transition myself. I guess I wasn't on here when and if you talked about transitioning on this site. Well, I don't read the TG section anyway. Have you discussed it there? Anyhow, if I compare my life with yours, we probably each have good and bad times. But I'm glad I have my life and you yours. Keep in touch here, if you don't mind.

[PaulaQ]

Thanks everyone, for your kind and supportive words, both in this thread, and in PMs. I really appreciate them more than you can know. I'll answer a few questions that have come up in the thread:

I've been in transition, and on HRT for a year now. I've been living fulltime as a woman for a year now. There is no 'boy mode' for me anymore. I don't own any male clothing any longer, and honestly I wouldn't present as a male again if my life depended on it. I'm not totally sure I'd pass as a guy anymore anyway, even if I wanted to.

I'm really doing OK. I'm just sad about it all, even though it was inevitable. I find it a little easier to process my feelings when I write.

I guess I wrote this thread mostly to give y'all a sense of closure. Closure is important to me, because I don't feel I ever really got it. The last time I saw my ex-wife (I'm still not used to saying that!), I was in boy mode. It was the day before thanksgiving last year, and I went to Oklahoma to sign papers to refi the house she's keeping. We had lunch afterward, and it was incredibly awkward - she could barely stand to look at me. I felt really rejected, more than I'd ever felt before, and I'm used to rejection! Anyway, it's not the best last memory to have of someone. I guess I just wanted to see a picture of her being happy and having fun - just to see that she still could. That's kind of selfish on my part, so I won't press on the issue of the picture.

From her perspective, it's as if I'd died. I guess it is like that for me too - suddenly I'm just gone from her life. I had no idea that the last time I saw her would literally be the last time I ever saw her. Well, I guess we can't know the future, but it seems pretty likely to me anyway.

My kids and how they are taking it - the short version is not well. My biological son lives with me. We barely speak, we don't do anything together, he pretty obviously hates my life now, and is the angriest person I've ever known. My step-son, her biological son, hasn't spoken to me in several months. They are both grieving the father they loved. I'm a shitty substute for him.

It's the same story with most of the rest of my family and my old friends. They grieve their loss, and they don't much know, or care for, the woman I've become. My sister is still close to me - possibly closer than we've been since we were kids.

My transition is more than just clothes, or even external physical appearance. I'm a very different person now. I do the same job, I am still a night owl, and I'm still very polite. That's about it though - I've changed so much in every other way. People who've only ever known me as Paula can't even imagine who I used to be, and are surprised when I tell them about it.

I won't be alone. I have partners. I have made many new friends in my community. I'll be OK.

I'm not too sure that I'll ever have a romantic relationship with another genetic woman - certainly not a straight one. I feel pretty incomplete compared to a genetic woman - it would be kind of hard to take. And then there's the issue of trust. My experiences with relationships with genetic women have never been good. And there is the matter of trust. I don't want to say anything bad about my ex-wife, but she hasn't been kind to me in this process. I don't blame her exactly, but still trust isn't going to come easy. Also, I think it'll be a while before I'm over her, despite knowing for certain for more than a year that this was the inevitable conclusion to 18 years of marriage.

Men are OK, at least if I ever find one who can put up with me. That'll be a stretch I fear. I'm not so sure I'd feel good about the stigma they'd live with because of me. It's very real, and very cruel, and I'm tired of people being hurt because of what I am. I'd like to be a nice normal straight girl, but I don't expect that is in the cards, and I would feel selfish.

So I'll date within the trans community I expect, despite the fact that everyone from my past but my sister absolutely hates it. There are so many lonely trans women. It seems selfish on my part to date outside the community. There is just so much loneliness and sadness. I can't fix it all, but I can at least affirm someone's validity and desirability.

Anyway, don't worry too much about me. I like my life now, both the good parts and the bad parts, because it is my life. Im sorry the world I grew up in couldn't accept me as myself, and that I hid for so long. That really hurt everyone involved, but especially me and my ex-wife.

[MatildaJ.]

Hi Paula -- thanks for coming back to give more details. I have to say that I don't understand this statement: "It seems selfish on my part to date outside the community."

People date the people they feel the most connection with (and love for), not the people they feel pity for. Dating someone isn't supposed to be doing them a favor. You can "affirm someone's validity and desirability" simply by complimenting their outfits -- that doesn't seem a good reason for dating someone.

Would you like it if a man told you: "I'll date you because I don't mind dating transwomen. There's so much loneliness and sadness; it seems selfish of me not to date a transwoman."

[Ginger Jameson]

Paula, I can sympathize. My ex and I divorced a couple of years ago after a long and painful time in what had started as a great marriage. I know it hurts like hell right now. The only thing I can say is that if it truly was a painful marriage at the end, it's good that it's over. Nobody is served well by being in a situation like that.

If you need someone to chat with, even if it's just about how horrible Dallasites are compared to Fort Worthians, feel free to PM me. ;-)

[LilSissyStevie]

I'm sorry that your divorce is not the joyous occasion that mine was. There were things I regretted about my divorce. She left me bankrupt and took my kids away (temporarily since I ultimately got custody) and when I was ready to be honest with myself I regretted the large part I played in things not working out. But the nightmare was over. It was a new beginning for me and I hope that in time you come to see it that way. I still see my ex regularly. When you have kids together, you're never completely divorced. I saw her the other day at a house warming for one of our daughters. We like each other better now than we ever did. We're friendly but not friends. I never dreamed that would happen.

[Alice Torn]

PaulaQ. I agree about dating, and not being in a hurry to date women or men. Since i strted dressing fully in 2005, I have not really dated. I wanted to badly, but, now, am realistic about it, and that being alone is not so bad, and far better than being in a toxic relationship with someone, male or female, or whatever. Several people on the forum are glad to be single now. I never married, but would have once, if i had not been poor. But i had stuffed the dressing thing back then too. I say proceed with caution, me too.

[PaulaQ]

I have to say that I don't understand this statement: "It seems selfish on my part to date outside the community."

People date the people they feel the most connection with (and love for), not the people they feel pity for.

A cisgender person will never have the same type of connection with me that I have with other transgender people. The incongruity between mind and body is simply nothing any cis person will ever experience. If you did - you wouldn't question it's reality, nor the nightmarish quality of existing with it.

I pity no one. I'm fortunate, I appear to be able to be attracted to, and to love, many different types of people. I don't seem to be bothered by anatomical details overmuch. I look at the person, instead. I think trans women are beautiful, passable, non-passable, it makes no difference to me. It's the person. Honestly, I think all women are beautiful. I just don't trust all of you very much, and obviously relationships with straight girls are pretty much doomed to failure for me.

Dating someone isn't supposed to be doing them a favor. You can "affirm someone's validity and desirability" simply by complimenting their outfits -- that doesn't seem a good reason for dating someone.

Oh if only. Jess, many people consider those of us who are transgender to not really be human beings. I've completely given up on the ideas of privacy and respect from most people. I am a walking, talking museum piece. I can either be angered by this, or go with the flow. I choose the latter. And I believe I get better treatment, in general, than many other trans women. Oh I've seen so much worse. So I hang with other trans women, even though in many cases this outs me immediately. I don't care.

It takes a lot more than a compliment to affirm someone who's been told for their entire life that they are a freak of nature, that they are hell bound, that they are delusional, that they are human garbage. So I spread my love around in the community. Not so much romantic love - but love for the person, for their beauty, and their character, and their struggles. And I definitely do not do this out of pity. If anything, it's pride. I'm proud to be part of the TG community here. Why would I look elsewhere for a relationship, particularly when some of us will not be involved with other trans*?

Would you like it if a man told you: "I'll date you because I don't mind dating transwomen. There's so much loneliness and sadness; it seems selfish of me not to date a transwoman."

I don't think any man in the world has said this, ever.

To answer your question, though, no, I wouldn't find that especially condescending or rude. It'd be kind of nice to be asked out by someone like that, I think. It beats the hell out of "OMG UR A F----T!!!", or the ever popular ass kicking. Actually, it would be better even than a fairly common friendly response, which is the expectation that we are there to provide them Heineken and blow jobs...

There are men who like us. Some who love us because we are trans. Very few of them want to deal with the stigma associated with dating one of us. There are some who do, and it's possible I could meet a guy like that. There are some good men in the world, there really are.

The idea that a guy would face stigma for having a relationship with me bothers me profoundly. I watched this happen to my ex-wife, and it's much, much worse for men - especially if, unlike my ex-wife, they are perceived as actually wanting to be with me. I'm tired of people being hurt because of who and what I am. I don't need the guilt. (This same thing can happen to women, but I think the guys get it far, far worse.)

There are far more guys who really are interested in us, but who are terrified that their girlfriends little secret will be discovered. There's absolutely no shortage of married straight guys who are looking for some strange on the side. And what could be stranger, from their perspective, than a trans woman?

Even if I met a really awesome straight guy (that would be a feat - I know tons of gay men, I meet very few straight guys!) I'm not sure I could break free of the stupid relationship templates I grew up with to be able to sustain a relationship - what I'd want would clash really badly with who I am, I fear.

Anyway, this is all pretty academic. For so many of us, our best chance of a relationship is within the trans* community. I've seen many who "don't date trans*" who are also pretty lonely.

So I hope I've explained myself - it's not that I pity trans* - I don't. I just hate the idea of some poor cis person taking a bunch of abuse because they decided to be in a relationship with me. And there really is a lot of need in the trans* community - so many of us feel alienated and alone. And why shouldn't we, because many of us are alienated and alone!? Why wouldn't I look amongst the people who understand me best?

[Rhonda Jean]

Careful not to paint with too broad of a brush, Paula. I think a lot of what you're saying comes from the too-fresh stings of what you've just been through. Jess is a "GG / SO to a CD". I think that gives her a unique status around here. The observations you've made about cisgender people may be broadly accurate, but it'd be a huge mistake to write off the whole straight/cisgender world because they haven't experienced your personal difficulties. I think you can become so mired in the trans community that you develop an "us against them" mindset, which really does nobody any good.

Miss Obvious speaking here, but, men fall in love with women and vice-versa even though they haven't lived the other's personal struggles. I think jess makes some great points. There are several examples on this board of women who are married to or in relationships with SO's at various points on the TG spectrum. In a few cases it's not just a matter of them being tolerant and accepting, it's distinctly their preference. Quite the different experience from yours (and mine, for that matter), but I hope you don't reject the whole cisgender world just because of your bad experiences.

They can't help being straight and cisgender. We should all try to look beyond that.

[flatlander_48]

My kids and how they are taking it - the short version is not well. My biological son lives with me. We barely speak, we don't do anything together, he pretty obviously hates my life now, and is the angriest person I've ever known. My step-son, her biological son, hasn't spoken to me in several months. They are both grieving the father they loved. I'm a shitty substute for him.

Absolutely not!! Just repackaged, that's all. The basic core doesn't change. Sure, now you will "fix your face" or fret over what to wear, but if you were a caring father before you don't become uncaring because you are in the process of transitioning. Doesn't work that way, but unfortunately your sons don't realize that. Hard to say whether that will ever "get it", but keep a good thought. You have to keep holding that Olive Branch out as long as it takes. That's all we can ever do.

[Kris Avery]

My first wife couldn't be married to a CDer and we divorced. I haven't seen her since she drove off more than 30 years ago, and talked to her only once (small business matter). There is life after divorce.

Wouldn't that be nice! That's actually a dream come true for me. Sadly when you have kids with them it's a wee bit more interactive and ultimately heated....forever.

I can only dream of his low level of interaction.

Several years ago when arguing about one matter or another with my ex....the topic came up that friends don't talk to friends like this... I happily clarified the misunderstanding on her part.

[Katey888]

Paula - you are a good person, and another good person - whatever their gender or sexual orientation - will see that in you... and you never know, one day the right person might just be there for you... I hope so.

And congratz on the big D - I know it doesn't sound 'right' saying that, but so many of us go through that nowadays that you have to grasp the positive aspect of that closure for you and how it will allow you to move forward...

And you have plenty to share with your experience and your perspective - your genuine warmth and humanity is what comes through in your opinions and advice and it would be a real loss if you weren't able to continue to share that here, at least once in a while...

Katey x

[MssHyde]

I'm very sorry for you.. I'm going through the fire too..

hugs Cheyenne

[MatildaJ.]

Why wouldn't I look amongst the people who understand me best?

To me, this makes so much more sense.

Dating within the trans community because you think it's probably your best shot at happiness makes complete sense.

[GenieGirl]

Wishing you the best as you move forward with your life and hope that you find the happiness you need and somehow balance out all that you have been through and have had to give up to get there. So sorry to hear about your divorce.

Sincerely,
Ginger

[kimdl93]

Well, Paula, having been through a divorce, I can empathize with the mixed emotions. There is nothing to be gained from speculating when or if you will see her again. You're doing what you can and being eminently fair with her. The future will take care of itself.