How do you feel when you're "out with the boys"?

[Isabella Ross]

Inside, I'm pretty girlie. But like many on this forum, I have a lot of boy interests...and a lot of male friends to go along with those interests -- absolutely none of them who know or would even suspect that I am TG. This past weekend was spent with four of my good friends in a bit of a throwback weekend (lakeside cabin)...something we do from time to time. Lots of booze, late nights, trash talk, and, invariably, a few manly barbs thrown around with gusto: "Don't be such a girl!" "I'd rather go out with a transvestite!" "Put your big girl panties on!"

I think you get the point. I've got decades of practice deflecting these types of testosterone-fueled remarks. But I always end up being a little embarrassed...sometimes if a barb is directed at me and hits a little close to home, I know I can get a little red-faced.

Do you ever deal with any of this? Aside from the tell-all strategy (which isn't going to happen in my case), how do you deal with and deflect these types of comments?

It would be priceless to see the looks on the faces of my friends if I were to 'fess up. But the blowback would be huge, and it's not an option.

I get pretty stressed leading up to these types of events...I'm careful not to shave a damn thing for weeks/months, etc. It's a shame, because I really enjoy the friendship, camaraderie, etc.

Any thoughts appreciated.

[nooneknows]

I feel like this constantly. My friends are very much the same way and it frustrates me. Despite many of them knowing it still happens

[StephanieinSecret]

I can get red-faced too when something really hits a soft spot, but usually I try to throw something extra vile back at them. Boys are competitive! :D

That being said, I don't start with remarks that are based on gender I only reply in kind. There's not much else you *can* do, unfortunately.

[Isabella Ross]

Stephanie, that's usually my strategy as well. But I'm toning down on responding to cd barbs with another cd barb. I think it's somehow being dishonest or betraying the cause when I respond in kind. So I guess I'll try deflecting with an alternate genre of insult, if that makes any sense...

[Anna H]

"I'd rather go out with a transvestite!"

What a coincidence....me too! lol

I don't really have any guy friends...i always moved a lot and never really
got close with any. But it'd be So nice to have friends I could be honest
and open with.

The guys I have hung out with, though...it wasn't going to ever happen.

Strange thing....many of them were seemingly nice open minded people....
but get a bunch of them together in a pack and they're completely different.

I wasn't going to fit in. I may as well go home and dress up....lol!

[Isabella Ross]

Kate, you're right...it's the pack mentality that's the worst. Individually, probably all my friends are pretty open-minded, and odds say that at least one or two are probably in my camp!

[Anna H]

It'd be so much fun to see a few dozen CD's together in guy mode
and hit a few of those manly-man bars.

They'd all be loud talking about heels and dresses and yelling and
drunkenly calling each other "tranny" this, and "tranny" that,
while the rest of the bar fell into dumbfounded silence.

I think i'd hang out with Those guys....lol!

[Kate Simmons]

Although I can chew cigars, drink and swear like the rest of 'em my preferred company is not a bunch of guys. I'd rather be with a bunch of women any day. They use less energy and accomplish twice as much.

[samantha rogers]

Honestly, though I played the part convincingly, I was never comfortable around groups of guys. I never had many close male friends either. A very select few. When I was with them part of my mind was always thinking they would somehow suss out that I was not really one of them. If the subject of CDs and TG came up, I would always deflect it by remarking that I had seen some that looked so good I would be tempted. This ALWAYS provoked most to agree with me. And it always turned the conversation from one of disparaging CDs and TS to one of more serious appraisal. It was amazing what that small comment did to diffuse the competitive testosterone fueled bravado that had created the offensive barbs. I suspect way, way more males are secretly attracted to "girls" than ever let on ... until someone else opens the door conversationally. Lol
Of course, what male friends I do have are never the kind to be terribly close minded or bigoted anyway. I have never really hung out with shallow sorts. That does make a difference I am guessing.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Bridgette, When I'm with the guys I am as manly as any of the other guys.

[Ugly Michele]

If I am out with a group of guys I am the girl. Just saying.

[bridget thronton]

I do not really go out with the guys ever.

[Justine Time]

I'm with BlueOrchid. When I'm with the guys, I'm comfortable being "One of the guys." There are many masculine traits/qualities that I still cherish and enjoy, but I just enjoy some of the pretty feminine things in life, too. Maybe I don't identify as strongly as some others?

[Isabella Ross]

Justine, that probably sums up my experience as well...love being a girl and a boy; pretty comfortable being one of the guys. And to be sure, these types of playful comments don't come up much, nor are they targeted at me exclusively. It's just that slight feeling of discomfort when something comes up like this. And the feeling of not being quite faithful to the cause if I respond in kind...I do think we have somewhat of a cause, don't we? A sort of "we're in this together" thing where we should make some attempt to push society into a more accepting place for those of us who are TG?

[Katey888]

There is an interesting theme here - good question Bridgette...

I have a few, close male friends that I am more than happy to spend time with talking different aspects of life, the universe, everything... One thing I definitely don't do is groups or 'packs' of males - I can concur with what has been said before about the majority regressing to pre-teen behaviour very quickly and no, that doesn't make me want to be part of the gang...

I'd much rather spend time with my wife and anything I can't do with her I'll do alone if I can... never been a problem for me being an only child...

Katey x

[Eringirl]

Nice discussion....I too don't have any really close male friends. The male friends I do have, have waaaaay too much testosterone, and can be brutally boorish at times. I tend to ignore most remarks and let it slide. I am much more comfortable around women and always have been. Most times I find my male friends get into a p*issing contest way too fast, always trying to out do each other, drives me nuts!! (Now, I have heard women say the same thing about groups that are all female, but have not experienced that first hand).

Erin

P.S. my wife is a HUGE football fan, so I loose her on Sundays when the season starts. But I have started to follow along, mostly to spend time together. Interesting gender dynamic in my house !

[mariehart]

Like many others here I don't have many male friends and those that do tend to attach themselves to me rather than the other way around. As such most of them are able to talk normally about various subjects, usually themselves as I am a sympathetic listener. Interestingly almost everyone of them made comments about me being ' a bit of a woman'.

What I do find is that men as a group act differently then as individuals, no great revelation that. I do hate the boorish aspect when some get together. But it varies and in any case I avoid those types.

All it takes is for one woman to be in the company for much of that to be dissipated.

I do have to say that most male conversation for me is quite painful and a huge effort. I hate it at parties or events where women are there in numbers and I see the only other man rushing towards me in desperation. No I don't want to talk to you about finance, cars, football teams you support and all the rest. Go away!

But the truth is that while there are some boorish guys out there. As a rule the rest of the guys rarely approve of it. I remember once one guy talking about having sex with his girlfriend in detail. There was a stony silence and when he went away there was general headshaking and an agreement that a man should never discuss something like that, particularly when we knew her. A generic former and unidentified girlfriend is fine but not the one we all know and like. Thank you.

[Marcelle]

Hi Bridgette,

It is funny in a way as most of the guys I still hang with (good friends of any consequence that is) all know about Isha. So when remarks like that pop up from time to time as they are want to do "Don't be such a girl" is a good example there will be a moment or two of awkward silence followed by a simple "Present company excluded dude" For the most part I don't take any notice of the remarks as they are what they are "words". Now if someone was going to start slagging the TG community writ large in a mean way then I would have words.

Hugs

Isha

[Dianne S]

I don't hang out with guys much. I have only a couple of close male friends and they are not at all the stereotypical beer-swilling sexist boors depicted by the OP.

I prefer to hang out with women, whether GG or trans. I just feel more at home with that crowd.

[Claire Cook]

Count me in the group that would rather be with the girls. I've never been comfortable "going out with the guys".

[noeleena]

Hi.

I had to work under quite a few men over the years and none knew as far as i know that i was female , yes i learned thier langauge just never took it on i can talk about many things they do , do thesame work as well hey i was trained ,

remember im a builder by trade so had to work along side the guy,s some were quite lovely and were good mates yet thier were times i walked away because thier talk was about us and what they would do with us in the sexual detail , that was one of the hardest issues i faced, had i said i was female . yea well wont go down that track ,

now, i have men work with me and along side and i can call the tune as im the one in charge , and as a woman the langauge is okay they know what im like and some goes back some 10 years of cause they dont have issues with me and im respected and get on well with them ,

So for myself and how i was first seen and to now is very different could i go out and be okay with men around me yes we do at our week long camps some 250 of us men and women , and really its quite lovely being treated as normal and accepted .

My interacting with men has changed over the last 10 years or so , i have changed dramaticley ,

I cant say i understand why though it could be as iv grown as a woman the dynamics have changed so much .for myself i wont say i understand men i dont yet for all that , its really lovely and nice to be where i am now compared to 46 years ago big difference,

The comment of when with the mates you are as manly as they are , = okay......

So do i have male mates , oh yes for sure,......do i trust them, yes and they have said they would look after me , so there you are,

...noeleena...

[Laura J]

I have never liked when the discussion among a group of men turns this way. I feel a bit uncomfortable. Even before I (at least overtly) knew I was TG.

[Renee Elise]

I enjoy hanging out with my friends from time to time, especially going to games, hunting or fishing. When I'm out with them in guy mode it's like a wall goes up inside to keep my inner lady shielded. Boys will be boys and my male persona is quite thick skinned.

[Madilyn A.]

I too dread the times I must be with the guys. Most of them are nice guys in a one on one meeting, however when more than a few gather then pack mentality kicks in, and I become more uncomfortable. I have always sought the groups of women at gatherings and enjoyed their company instead. I have always felt like this since my earliest years.

[Ressie]

I don't say anything at all when such comments are made. But, this reminds me of a movie (Out of Providence) where some blue collar boys are playing cards and somehow start pressing the issue of one of the guys possibly being gay. It starts out with George Wendt saying (paraphrased) that if someone wants to be gay why not he isn't hurting anyone? This leads to the guys ganging up on him, accusing him of being gay.

Luckily, I've never had this kind of pressure from hanging out with the guys, but the possibility of that happening is what prevents me from hanging out with the guys very often.

I just realized last week that if I go to a friend's cottage on the lake my shaved chest, legs and armpits could become exposed for 'the guys' to take notice of. I've been invited and I love swimming etc. but I'll either have to keep my shirt on or stay home.