NOT Gay

[Darlabtg]

I find this "difference" fascinating. Certainly one that has been brought up before. Dressed as a girl I feel one way, dressed as a guy I feel another way....

I feel the same way which is why I also avoid labels.

[PaulaQ]

I don't think labels like gay or straight apply very well to many of us on the transgender spectrum.

Let's suppose one identifies at first as a CD, and is attracted to men. This person later transitions, but still likes men. She's now straight. (This may be eye opening since she may have spent little time in the straight world.) What really changed in all this? It is, after all the same people involved in the relationship.

Or consider my situation. I've always been attracted to women. I married two of them! Since I started transition, that would make me a lesbian. Except I'm attracted to men now, too. So I'm bisexual now, right? Except I'm not attracted to cisgender women, just trans. So what in the hell is that?

So for that reason, I simply use the term "queer" to describe myself. (And believe me, it applies to me.)

I think a lot of us have difficulty accepting that we aren't straight, exactly. I sure did. Heck, now I'd like to be a nice straight girl. But I am far from that.

[Joy3]

I too have no interest in men when in drab! However when dressed very definitely am interested. I consider myself bi definitely!

[sometimes_miss]

I will never figure out why so many CDers obsess over labels.

Easy. Because we're trained to hate ourselves. So our minds have to use all kinds of mental tricks to avoid feeling bad about that, such as pretending that there's another personality there but that it's not really us. Which is, of course, bullsh!t.

This phenomenon is just a perfect example of how our society infects our minds with hate, even to hate ourselves. It's simple. if you're attracted to men, and you are a man, that's homosexuality. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!!! NOTHING! You don't have to try to distance yourself from it in your own mind by telling yourself that 'Well, it's only when I'm dressed up and pretending to be a girl, I'm not REALLY gay, I'm really just a normal man' or anything like that. It's part of your personality.
It's o.k. to be gay. Repeat that 100 times. It rhymes. Make it a chant, say it silently in your head if you're worried about how the rest of the world will think.
It's times like this that I get really, really pissed off at the religious groups that tell all their followers to raise all the children to hate other people just because they're different, including hating themselves such as like what we have with this type of situation. It sucks. And it really has to stop.

[LilSissyStevie]

I wouldn't worry about it. The "bi when dressed" or more exactly "androphilia when dressed" fantasy is one of the most common emasculation fantasies that CDs have. I doubt that one in 100 ever go through with it in real life and few that do ever develop romantic feelings for the man. The man in these fantasies is essentially a living dildo. Is that gay? Who cares. It's just harmless fun as long as it doesn't negatively impact more important areas of your life.

[im-sparkles]

It seems simple to me. If you have sex with only females your straight. If so with only men theen your gay.If you do with both then your bi.If you only think about men when your dressed its just a fantasy .Even if you try it a time or two and don't like and never do again i don't think that makes you gay or bi either .I know that Im bi because i've had sex with both occasionally over the years. I've never been with a man while dressed either. Im attracted to both weather im dressed or not.However i would like to while all dolled up sometime lol.

[TanyaWonder]

LilSissyStevie, I consider myself CD and what ur saying definitely applies to myself.

Making love to a girl, she is the object of attraction.

However, Ive been with a guy twice (as a girl). It was always about me, the guy was there just to allow his toy, I was my own object of attraction. Strange, narcisstic feeling, requiring a mirror So, I figure I might not be that bi how I thought, even though the fantasies continue and I may end up with a guy, no arguing about that. Im just not attracted to men themselves, but to the idea of me being with a man.

Also, Ive noticed that being dressed en femme around my girlfriend makes it kind of redundant (I recall someone from here who wrote something about crossdressing emulating the contact with a real girl in CDs brains

Final thought: **** labels.

[NicoleScott]

I never, but NEVER, use butter, EXCEPT when I eat freshly boiled lobster. So, does that make me a "butternut"?

If so, then you may be a squash.

Crossdressing often sets the fantasy gears in motion. When transforming into the image of woman, it's fun and exciting to imagine being a woman, even knowing better than to really believe it.
It takes both the desire and the act to define a person as a crossdresser. A one-time wearing a dress as a costume or a person who may want to dress but never did can't be called a crossdresser as we know it. Likewise, fantasizing doesn't make you gay or bi - it takes the desire and the act. The act doesn't require a sexual encounter, but at least a romantic or physical attraction.
You aren't defined by your thoughts, but by those thoughts put into action.

[Tracii G]

I have dabbled with both and if I found the right guy I could be happy in a relationship.
Its more about the person.

[LesliePinky]

If your wearing a skirt on a constant basis then you are gay... Why would someone thinks hes straight who wears one? No ifs no buts but youre gay=)

[Pïnk Lipton]

If your wearing a skirt on a constant basis then you are gay... Why would someone thinks hes straight who wears one? No ifs no buts but youre gay=)

In my mind, there isn't a connection between crossdressing & your sexuality. I'm attracted to men, whether I'm wearing a dress or sweatpants.
So to be brutally honest, I think that you're being a bit ignorant, Leslie. Many crossdressers consider themselves straight, so I don't really see how your point is valid in any way.

Now, regarding the actual topic, I think that it's different for everybody. You can crossdress and be completely straight, -gay or have your sexuality change when you adapt the role of the opposite sex.
(Pssst, come closer. I'll tell you a secret~ There really isn't that much more to it, since you make the calls when it comes to your sexuality. No-one else can determine it for you.)

[Michelle789]

First I want to say that I really love this thread, and the thought provoking discussion that we're able to have.

First perhaps is to realize there is nothing wrong with being either gay or bi then you might be able to analyze where you are

Society tells us that being anything other than straight and cis is a sin, and we often convince ourselves that we must conform to the rigid boxes society places us on. The reality is it is perfectly okay to be attracted to whoever you are attracted to, and society as a whole is becoming increasingly more accepting of diversity.

My people (queers and trannies) are enjoying unprecedented acceptance and equality despite a rather loud and persistent opposition from guess who

This probably depends on where you are. I would probably say that in most of Texas, Idaho, deep south, middle east, no, LGBT people face MAJOR discrimination, even the possibility of being murdered, in those states or countries. In San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York City, and in general major cities in the western world, I would say yes it is the best time ever to be LGBT. Much of our experiences we have in being out crossdressers or transsexuals will be affected by what part of the world we live in.

In spite of the fact that some parts of the world still need to play catch up, I would say that traditionally conservative individuals and groups are becoming more and more accepting of LGBT people.

1. Several years ago, during the whole prop 8 battle, lots of gays got married legally before prop 8 and it's ban on gay marriage was passed. I attended such a gay wedding, and it was in a conservative Jewish synagogue.

2. I have a transwoman friend who told me that when she attended her father's funeral in the Mormon church, that the Mormon minister of the church was not only accepting of her being trans, but also said that he hopes and believes someday that the Mormon church would be fully accepting of transgender people.

3. I came out to a very staunch, Tea Party, conservative Republican, who was totally cool with and supportive of me being trans.

Or consider my situation. I've always been attracted to women. I married two of them! Since I started transition, that would make me a lesbian. Except I'm attracted to men now, too. So I'm bisexual now, right? Except I'm not attracted to cisgender women, just trans. So what in the hell is that?


So for that reason, I simply use the term "queer" to describe myself. (And believe me, it applies to me.)

Actually, there is a term called pansexual. I typed in pansexual definition into Google, and here is what I got.

not limited in sexual choice with regard to biological sex, gender, or gender identity.

My understand of pansexual is it means that you are attracted to the person or to the soul, without regards or bias to the body or body parts.

I know plenty of people in the trans community who identify as pansexual, and who feel that the pansexual orientation best describes themselves and other trans people. Sometimes I feel like pansexual has become synonymous with transgender, although that is not accurate, because sexual orientation and gender identity are two separate variables.

[Rhonda Jean]

Amusing. Amusing that a male who wears women's clothes finds it so afraid that someone might think he's gay. I'm not offended by that. I just find it amusing.

I gets a little less than amusing when it's said in condescending way. Like, "Don't confuse me with any of THOSE people". Like you're better than me. If you don't want people to think you're gay you really should re-think being a crossdresser, because that's what people think. Oh, and the whole "only when I'm dressed so it doesn't really count" thing. Try telling that to the credit card company after your next fem shopping spree.

[flatlander_48]

Yes, but you have to remember that is how society at large thinks of us. The only way that they can process Crossdresser is to link it with being gay, unfortunately. As I understand, the largest constituency among us is straight males, but what you would likely hear is: "You can't tell me that anyone who wears...". Because of this reaction, it could be that there is a backlash within our community.

[LesliePinky]

In my world and in the world of realists its not ignorant my dear its just plain up brutally honest with urself

Just simple logic , if your not gay then dnt crossdress on a cnstant basis lol, even a kid or a granpa will tell u dat

[Sara Jessica]

If your wearing a skirt on a constant basis then you are gay... Why would someone thinks hes straight who wears one? No ifs no buts but youre gay=)

I don't give a hoot what people perceive of me when I'm out & about. If they perceive trans, then whatever. If that equates to gay, whatever. I'm with Rhonda and it doesn't matter in the least bit. But to make a statement as you have done, wearing a skirt on a constant basis (what constitutes constant???) = gay (no ifs, no buts, etc. yadda yadda yadda)...seriously, you have a lot of learning to do.

[Katey888]

Leslie's expressing a perspective from a different cultural background and while it may not align with yours, she's not being rude or personalising this discussion...

Try to think for a moment about her background and a culture that prominently features Ladyboys, a thriving (and foreign fuelled) sex industry and perhaps you can cut her some slack...?

It's an opinion - nothing more...

Oh - and stick to the OP too.

Katey
Moderator

[Rogina B]

Going back to the ORIGIN of the discussion..I only wish that people would be more comfortable with themselves and their feelings and far less worried on how others view it.It just isn't good to try to compartmentalize or justify your inner feelings..not worth it. "Bi Curious" often describes an "interest in experimenting" with it and "Pansexual" is a nice term that describes it when the "experiment" is over and you find that"you like it"...lol

[ReluctantDebutant]

If you ask the average guy on the street if he would cross-dress for a year he would probably say no. If you offer him a million dollars to do so and he does, what does that say about him? It says that he wants a million dollars. When doing something is contingent on something else it just means that what the act is contingent on is more desired then the actual act. If you fantasize about being with men only when you fantasize about being a woman and never as a man. I would say it just means you are really turned on about the idea of being a woman and experiencing things from a woman's perspective. I highly doubt you are gay, just really imaginative. I think this probably happens to a lot of us cross-dressers.

[Krisi]

Just dressing like a woman does not change who you are. Saying or thinking that strapping on a pair of boobs and a wig changes your sexual orientation is silly. Regardless of how you are dressed, if you are a male and have sex with other males, you are gay or bi-sexual. Not that there's anything wrong with that, those terms describe your sexual orientation.

I think most crossdressers fantasize being a female and having sex with a male but that's as far as we take it.

[CastleCD907]

I agree if your a guy who enjoys wearing women's underwear, dresses, etc it doesn't necessarily mean your gay. I have a few fellow CD's whom are very straight but they enjoy crossdressing for the sheer excitement of it all. I on the other hand am bi, I like women but I also enjoy being the lady and pleasing my male friends who loves his CD lover.

[NicoleScott]

I re-read the OP and can't find anything indicating Cheryl believes there's anything wrong with being gay. We should know by now that sexual preferences and gender identity and presentations aren't the polar opposites we were taught and society at large wants to believe it should be. And so we ask questions and use labels to try to understand ourselves. Have we become so PC that we can't even ask a question without someone assuming an underlying prejudice?

[LesliePinky]

Im just stating my opinion i know ur country well i know black friday sale, evrything is bigger in txas, swampy florida, so my opnion is not really bec of my background or what i see here etc... Im jst sayin tht is my prsonal opinion hehe love or hate it well we dont see women wearing shorts , mens shirt or suits,or fake beard and moustache in public just for the thrill of it dont we?

[SusanaO]

Just as I believe there is a continuous spectrum of sexual orientation, I also believe there's a continous spectrum in gender identity. However, I do think they are mutually exclusive. That said, here's my response to the original post:

I consider myself a 2 on the Kinsey Scale. Though I'm technically bisexual by definition, I still identify as mostly straight, and straight being an approximation. However, although I only date women, I have had a few experieces with men that I have enjoyed, but not in girl mode.

Though it has been few times I have actually been out in guy mode, I have noticed men checking me out, and I do find it arousing. Not that I have a sexual attraction towards those men, but it's the fact that they find me worth checking out (mini skirt and heels, and funny they pretend they're not looking hehe). I think I may end up wanting to experiment with men while in guy mode out of curiousity. But for the time being, I prefer to be girly with girls.

So, back to the OP: no, logically that does not make you gay. But let's assume it does... who cares? Remember, while in guy mode we try to pretend we're not looking at each other's penises in the men's room - but even if we do look - does that make us gay?

[Jocelyn Quivers]

If your wearing a skirt on a constant basis then you are gay... Why would someone thinks hes straight who wears one? No ifs no buts but youre gay=)

OMG wearing a skirt on a constant basis really does make me gay?!!!!! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANYTHING BUT THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Insert "Your Gay" Dr. Drew sound bite from Love Lines.