'Interests' changing

[PaulaQ]

I realized I never answered MM's question "Do our interests change?"

For me at least, a year into transition, the answer is yes.

Some differences:

• I'm feminine. I wear a lot of makeup. I like being a girl.
• I'm happy now. I like myself.
• I'm much, much more confident than I used to be.
• I'm much, much, much more take-charge and aggressive than I used to be. (Those two are ironic, here I thought those qualities were from the male side of me.)
• I'm completely fearless.
• I'm very spiritual now. I live my life to serve God. What happens to me is irrelevant. It is what is supposed to happen. (I told my ex-wife this, and she responded "What the ****?!? You don't even BELIEVE in God!!!!"
• I spend every second I can helping others, or trying to. I used to play games and be kind of introverted. Now? There is so much God needs me to do, and I am so limited. But I do the best I can.
• I was an amateur astronomer. A really serious amateur astronomer. Now? I don't even look up. There's just no time.
• I'm a queer woman now. I used to be a straight guy. My sexuality is - odd. My ex wife would be repulsed, to be honest.
• I used to be conservative. Not anymore. I'm thinking of joining NOW, and trying to help women get more autonomy over their bodies. It's an important fight.
• I was a straight dude. Now? I live in the gay part of town. I'm immersed in queer culture. No one from my old life understands this world at all.
• My life is about love now. That's all I've ever wanted it to be about. My ex thinks that statement is the stupidest f'n thing she's ever heard

There's not very much of him left in me, I think. Some things are the same, just more intense. I've gone from being "really nice" to "really sweet" for example. Where I used to stay quiet, if I think someone is really, really wrong, I can be an acid tongued bitch.

I think I watch one TV show that I used to watch that I still watch. I don't watch a lot of TV - that part is the same. I'm still really funny. I'm still smart.

I am the type of woman my ex-wife would never befriend. She's a wonderful woman, she really is. She'd really dislike me for so many reasons.

[MatildaJ.]

A new one is "I like to choose my own friends" I don't truly understand the point there. I am different. I see through the facade and see the person and although they may appear different, I still see the person. If, just for teh sake of this thread, clothing wasn't the issue. If you met the naked person would not like them? And that goes toward what I understand MM to be asking. Are they that much different?

Yes, they seem like different people to me. I have no problem with the clothes (or with my husband naked); but when the wig goes on, a new person is in the room, with different tastes, mannerisms, and different sense of humor. Short of inviting you into my life, I don't see any way to persuade you of my reality. Still, it's real.

My feelings are that if you cannot get passed the clothing, the mannerisms, the personality changes (and yes I know TGs are selfish..I have been there), then there really is no need to carry on. You both need to figure out if life would be better with someone else or if you can learn to live with AND accept it AND be content together, then make it work. If you have to try too hard, it isn't fair to either one of you. Life is too short to fight about it.

Or we make room for the third person without expecting that I have to be her best chum. That may come in time. I've only known her a year (and have only spent a couple of weeks with her altogether. Maybe she'll grow on me, once she gets more comfortable and less insecure. And once she can talk like an intelligent adult woman, about more than her physical appearance and shopping.

[Tina_gm]

Jess, maybe there just isn't all that much deeper than the physical aspects? I actually suspect this of those who have this different persona when dressed. Yes, they act "different" because externally they are different, and maybe that is where a lot of it is with your husband. For me, clothing is just one thing that I do which connects the external with the internal. And I believe that all willful CDers do have somethng feminine internal that causes the desire to dress to the point which we do. But.... still, the drive for your husband maybe the external change itself.

[MatildaJ.]

Can you find another way to say this, gendermutt? I don't know what you mean. Are you saying I don't like or feel close to his female persona because she is fake? That he's mostly guy inside so doesn't know how to be an authentic woman?

[kimdl93]

I'm pretty sure my interests haven't changed. Certainly, I have expressed those repressed interests more often and openly. I don't feel that I am obsessive about it. I do pretty much the same things, relate and converse with my wife and others in the same way as I ever have.

[Judith96a]

Please note that I am speaking as a CDer about crossdressing ONLY - ie no transition - that's a whole other kettle of fish!

I'm kind of raging at the partners (those who promised 'in sickness or in health, for richer or poorer') who have an issue with your identity...If you still adhere to the values and priorities you did while 'en-boots' as 'en-heels', WTF does it matter?

Adhering to the same values etc isn't the issue. The REAL issue is that most people seem to have little understanding of marriage vows (evidence = divorce statistics).
When you promised 'in sickness and in health' etc (and she did likewise) the ONLY condition attached was "so long as you both shall live"! End of!

Whether you decide to wear a dress 2.5 days a week or nothing at all or whatever is actually irrelevant as is any change of behaviour on her part. Coming from a CDer that may sound self-serving. However, the fact that it potentially works in my favour doesn't change the reality! The reason that divorce statistics are sky high is that couples don't get it - neither when they are getting married nor when the marriage encounters difficulties.

We have an odd culture when it comes to marriage. We agree when we get married that this is for life. Isn't that at the root of what marriage means? If not, then when is the difference between marriage and dating? I digress. "In sickness and health, for richer or poorer, for better or worse." Unless I decide that you have changed and I don't like who the new you is. Then it is acceptable for me to divorce you. Trust me, I myself have contemplated that avenue many a time, and these issues, thoughts, concerns, are ones that I struggle with all of the time. What did I mean when I said I do? I do, for now? I do, until you really upset me? I do, until you age, and grow, and are no longer the same person that I said I do to?

To answer your questions directly Moose, I don't think that even if our interests do change because of dressing that that singularity really justifies divorce. There is no bait and switch in marriage, or really it is all a bait and switch. None of us ever remains exactly the same.

Agreed, see above!

I really dislike the analysis I read on this forum that a woman should just adjust to her husband wearing a dress, heels, hosiery, makeup, wig, etc. Many men, whether they are cross dressers or not, feel their wives should be totally subservient to their whims and desires. The rooster rules the hen house.

Nope, the rooster doesn't rule the hen house (no matter what he does or does not do / wear). However you made vows! If you didn't understand them or didn't mean them then you shouldn't have made 'em.

Frankly, if my wife transgressed some social norms that really crossed my moral boundaries, I'd "kick her out."

But that isn't what either of you signed up for!

How does that help? Read the threads - most women, even the ones who accepted this ultimately, would've bailed if they'd known at first. It's not their fault, they have no way to know they COULD accept this.

So, let's say that 5 years in she has a medical condition that necessitates brain surgery, it goes wrong and she ends up with a brain injury which changes her personality (this isn't theory, happened to a colleague) or you're involved in a wreck, lose a limb maybe more. Not her fault, not your fault. Neither of you have any way of knowing whether you can accept what has happened to the other. Does that justify abandoning them?

Not many choose to be CDers.

And, by the way, I'm not raging with anyone. I'm certainly not raging with, or otherwise critical of, any wife who has difficulty dealing with her husband's crossdressing. It's 'out there'. It's weird. It's troubling. I get that. If she'd known up front - who knows? What does sadden me is when bailing out is adopted as the method of resolving such difficulties.

Please remember, I'm talking about crossdressing not transition.

[Katey888]

MM - I think you're in a very fortunate minority with the relationship you have - clearly, most marriages that fail do so because of something other than CDing. That doesn't mean that none fail because of CDing as an issue, just that in absolute terms the proportion will be tiny.

I believe most divorces are because of either infidelity or incompatibility. Infidelity is a clear absolute. Incompatibility seems trite to me, but a substantial majority fall into this category. I don't hold to 'minor' incompatibilities as a valid reason, but people can change substantially through life and if someone does, well I'm contemporary enough to accept that would be a valid reason for separating and starting again, rather than persisting and ruining two people's lives, or increasing the chances of more serious abuse in a relationship.

I've known people divorce because one became a vegetarian - another because of financial ineptitude, nothing illegal, just incompetence... I'm sure there are more trivial ones as well as many more justified.

Everybody's values are subtly different and hugely mixed - I can understand how the relative stigma of our misunderstood condition would switch most women off entirely... that's nothing to do with us as individuals - purely how any SO would have to deal with what everyone else thinks of her partner. As long as the stigma is there in society, any SO has a valid reason - only education and acceptance will change that.

For those of you who have found that acceptance in a partner - treasure it as a gift from the gods; it is surely a very random gift...

Katey x

[PaulaQ]

So, let's say that 5 years in she has a medical condition that necessitates brain surgery, it goes wrong and she ends up with a brain injury which changes her personality (this isn't theory, happened to a colleague) or you're involved in a wreck, lose a limb maybe more. Not her fault, not your fault. Neither of you have any way of knowing whether you can accept what has happened to the other. Does that justify abandoning them?

Lots of people would say "yes", judging by the divorce statistics.

Look, I understand how you feel. My wife suffered a really severe bout of depression because of something in her past about 8-9 years into our marriage. It was really tough to deal with. I stuck with her, although it was hard. We got through it, although I have a house I don't need and never wanted that I'm trying to sell, as a result. (Short version - she HAD to have a new house or she'd never be happy again, so she said.)

When I came out as trans? We were done. She hung in there four whole months before kicking me to the curb.

Please remember, I'm talking about crossdressing not transition.

Oh, right, sorry, forgot about that. I keep forgetting that trans* are human toxic waste, and need to be dumped immediately. Lucky for y'all you have nothing in common with us. So anyway, yeah, my fault my wife dumped me because I was born trans. I shouldn't have "chosen" to be a woman, right?

Well, I always asked this about my situation, "why couldn't this have been pancreatic cancer, instead of 'the trans?'" My ex-wife probably would've hung with me to the bitter end. I like to think so, anyway.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Not many choose to be CDers.
.

Funny you write this is as I would actually suggest that many wives do believe their husbands are choosing to be crossdressers! Even now, after my time here and all that I know, I still see the grip this has on my H and how even though he controls it well and only occasionally dresses, the truth is he's powerless to stop. And I'm still here thinking 'it's clothing, for crying out loud. You're a grown man so just stop it already!'

Sad thing is, my H is a lovely, generous guy and he's not really childish about any of this. It just looks childish from the outside when you see men getting their lives and relationships all twisted up for clothing and wigs and make up and basically external paraphernalia. Many here mention illness and injury and how we wouldn't leave a spouse when these things happen. I think some would. I personally wouldn't though, because I understand these things. They usually occur without choice and the person needs love and support. I also realise that on some level crossdressing is the same. Despite that, there will always be this little nagging doubt at the back of my mind that my H did choose this, that it's only compulsive because he allows it, and ultimately he is the one bringing the issue into our marriage that is making our vows difficult. As I said, I suspect many new GGs wonder if her partner isn't just refusing to stop dressing because he doesn't want to. The sheer depth of all this is very hard to understand unless you delve further.

And MM, you asked how to fix those of us for which gender and sexuality is inflexible? You don't. We're not broken any more than you are. You're not going to change heterosexual women into preferring men who present like women or change our sexuality from straight to fluid. It's not in our DNA to behave such a way. If we didn't prefer heterosexual men who present as men, we wouldn't be heterosexual women! The only thing you might change is social approval so that straight women feel less embarrassed and threatened to marry men who crossdress, and so that those women who actively seek gender fluid partners can find y'all better! As it currently stands, most women end up married to a crossdresser without realising, until some shocking moment arrives many years after the wedding day. The choice was never given. That is not a healthy foundation for marriage and in my mind, definitely reason enough for the relationship to end if the wife chooses. It doesn't matter that maybe her husband hadn't figured himself out before that moment. What matters is that sometimes the change is just too big and the relationship moves in a direction that one of the spouses can't or won't follow.

Sometimes it's better to move on.

[suchacutie]

I was 55 when Tina appeared. Initially we really didn't understand much about what was happening but we started by teasing apart my two gendered selves. So, Tina has always been different, that's definitely how we wanted it, and initially the male and female parts seemed to equal the sum of what I had always been.

Then my wife tried to find out if Tina would view topics differently, potentially based upon her gendered point of view. The answer was, "sometimes"! That amazed us, but as time has gone on, the sum of the parts has increased because we are only working with one database!

Bottom line, my gendered selves are very different and that's exactly what makes it work for us!