Beautiful. Yes. I find it makes more sense to look forward and be the person you need to be now, rather than to fret about what happened in the past and how you felt about it then.Originally Posted by Carlene
Beautiful. Yes. I find it makes more sense to look forward and be the person you need to be now, rather than to fret about what happened in the past and how you felt about it then.
Kaitlyn, I fear you mistake me. Haha
No, obviously you are not stupid, and I never implied that you were. If you knew me, you would know I am far more likely to accuse myself of that than anyone else. I am keenly aware of my own shortcomings.
Nor was I finger pointing at anyone, not specifically. Nor, further, was this in any way about me “feeling good”.
Rather it was merely an appeal for kindness in how others are treated on this board. Is that presumptuous? I guess. But my concern is not for me. As I said, there is nothing easy about gender issues. Many of those who find their way to this relatively anonymous board do so from emotionally fragile and unstable places, where an unkind or callous word may set off negative repercussions no one else can predict. Kindness costs nothing.
Obviously we all make judgements everyday, in our own lives and about decisions relating to our own situations. I thought it was clear those were not the “judgements” to which I referred. I expect I value in my own life many of the same positive attributes you do. Rather, my objection is to what I have observed here as a trend toward judging the decisions of others in their lives and making those judgements known, voiced in what is often a hard, not to say nearly mean fashion, often filled with sarcasm. But, I expect you knew that.
So, is that a judgement, too? Yes, but one concerning manners and kindness. In that context, yes, I would say compassion does “beat” judgement, at least in terms of interacting with others. If that makes me a “pollyanna”, I will take that over the alternative, and happily. I prefer kind over smart any day. Another judgement? Why yes...but one that hurts no one, perhaps excepting myself, lol, and I can live with that.
And, if you go back and read over what I wrote, I spoke only of my own experience with actors, not of all actors everywhere. I stand by that experience and that appraisal. In an art form filled with insecurities, I have always found, in my personal experience, those actors most secure in their own abilities to be the kindest and most generous and the most honestly self effacing. Your experience may differ.
Every fear that held me back, when faced, has proven to be hollow.
Courage is not the lack of fear, but the willingness to ignore it.
It's your life. Make it count.
And here we go again ...
But what the heck.
“When kindness comes at the expense of truth, it is not a kindness worth having. And when generosity leads to silence or abuse, it is not a generosity worth giving.” Rachel Simmons
There's an aphorism, platitude, or proverb for everything.
Lea
Cute, Lea....but irrelevant.
No one said anything about sacrificing truth. There is a difference between honesty and brutal honesty.
But nevermind...haha....I said what I had to say.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming...
You ladies have fun!
Every fear that held me back, when faced, has proven to be hollow.
Courage is not the lack of fear, but the willingness to ignore it.
It's your life. Make it count.
I grew up an outsider, but an outsider within the male group. I kept being a male outsider. If you are a perpetual outsider, the biggest most immediate "transition" is to change to be more mainstream. And I couldn't do that. If you already know yourself to be a perpetual outsider, it becomes difficult to separate "I don't seem to belong to society" from "I don't seem to belong to males". Not until you start developing a "female identity" that cannot be rationalized away as "unusual male". That did not hit me at all until I was 43 and was under treatment for Major Depression. And it kept growing. I didn't spend time denying it, but I did spend a lot of time trying to figure out how far along I was, what I wanted to do about it, and what price I was willing to pay. Oh, and wavering...
I did go through a period of badly understood compulsions, and risks taken. Those, with the totality of the other things I was going through, led me to start HRT, which calmed down those internal compulsions greatly. But if your medication keeps you "under control" then do you still need to transition? Somehow the HRT allowed me into the space where living as female "just becomes right", "just what you do". You stop "hiding yourself", you stop "explaining yourself", you just live what feels right. And for me once the HRT had calmed me down, it just evolved, no "plan", no "do this or die!", no "study study study": you just flow and become.
I just reread the thread...I have to admit...I find your whole set of posts really rude..Cute, Lea
No one said anything about sacrificing truth. There is a difference between honesty and brutal honesty.
But nevermind...haha....I said what I had to say.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming...
You ladies have fun!
Lea's post was totally relevant.
+++++
The thing you did , and I am being specific, is that you attempted to create an issue by hiding behind generalities. you came out of nowhere..
All you did was jump into a conversation, you made negative stuff up...and then you attacked the general made up problem....
in this thread the only mean post came from a person that is banned...
then when you were engaged in a conversation, you were asked a very simple reasonable question..you wouldn't answer it..
then when there was some back and forth you just said "have fun ladies"..."haha"...how condescending...
you belittle the efforts of dozens of people here that come to try to help people going through or contemplating transition...ugh
in the end...all you accomplished was messing up a perfectly good interesting thread...you butted in...it was rude...
If you want to be relevant, if you want to matter, you are going to have to do better than that.
if you don't care if you matter, then that's ok too.
Why??? The social tolerance level has become more liberal and many of us were always there: however, it was never prudent to come forward... It was a most difficult time... Having said that many of us are now enjoying the change in social attitudes and are now coming forward... What a breath of fresh air...
Since this a board for those who are transsexual and seriously consider transition, the last thing anyone needs in that situation is what you describe as kindness. What you actually mean when you talk about kindness is permissiveness. You support no matter what, whatever a person might want to believe about themselves against the odds of reality. Very often this approach originates from a desire of the individual to not have to face the hard questions that come with what transitioners have to do. Not to have to live with the social consequences of transition built on some some dream, some fantasy or in the case of older transitioners on comfort. There is research out there that older gender variant transitioners are often motivated by a comfort factor naturally flowing from years of crossdressing. But this has little or nothing to do with transitions that originate from moderate or high intensity needs occasioned by transsexed conditions.
Time and time again on this board we see people who strike me as of this type. Commentary and support given to them is often to exercise caution, not to throw everything in the wind, not to destroy their family, jobs etc. The reason is that once you have done that, you can never get it back. The other reason is that we see time and time again those that have transitioned as a result of a fantasy, dream or comfort back here complaining incessantly about the unfairness of it all, the treatment they receive, the lack of love, the loneliness.
Now ask yourself who lacked judgement when they decided to fuel the ill conceived notions of future happiness against all odds. Those that end up in the hell hole of their post transition take cold and bitter comfort from Samantha's kindness that may have at a crucial point just have been enough to make a fateful decision. What you call kindness is permissiveness, and it is never support. It leads people down the wrong paths at great costs. Real kindness, especially when you have older transitioners is to ask the questions that engender brutal self reflection about transition motives, about what the desired outcome is and if it is achievable, and finally prepare them for the world after, which as we have seen here time and again is not what they expected.
Last edited by Kathryn Martin; 09-18-2014 at 11:25 AM.
"Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)
Kathryn's post should be a sticky.
With all due respect, I don't think it is. As with so many things in life, this is not so straightforward as people would like it.Cute, Lea
I am not defending or advocating being unkind. I don't think anyone else is, either. Kindness has many faces. And whether or not kindness is intended, it may not be perceived or received as such. Hopefully this is self-evident.
While there are examples of unkind intentions here, as anywhere in life, I don't believe the issue that crops up here so often is so much unkindness per se as it is misunderstanding of tone ... and need, frankly. A matter-of-fact statement, an observation, a direct comment, a targeted response - the sorts of things which make up much of the content people seem to find "unkind" - are not unkind in and of themselves, nor are they made kinder by couching them in soothing language.
I'm not particularly receptive to certain kinds of moral correction. Kindness, for example, is inculcated by being kind – not calling others on their unkindness. Love by loving, not by condemning others for not loving. Charity by being charitable. It often seems that those who are nominally the most focused on certain moral, ethical, religious, and philosophical ideas are the ones who are the least tolerant. The same thing characterizes them all. They condemn others for not believing and practicing as they would like them to. And they condemn themselves by so doing in stepping outside of their proper role.
Lea
Oh that Samantha, what on earth was she thinking? Doesn't she know kindness is not a topic for a TS forum? Doesn't she know that we are not happy unless we are clawing the eyes out of each other? Silly girl!
There are different types of kindness. You didn't know that, did you? In a perfect world, talk of cute cuddly puppies can elicit shrieks of joy from even the most hardcore person. In a forum where we are talking about major life changing subjects like transition, GRS, FFS, being straight forward and telling the truth even if it hurts can be the most kind thing that can be done.
Way too many come in this part of the forum with delusions of grandeur. They have a notion that they want to go full time and take the steps to change their genitals because it would be so cool. To be completely honest, there is nothing cool about having your penis turned inside out and stuffed up inside of you. Having your face carved and dismantled like last years Christmas turkey is not cool. Being insulted and humiliated with every step taken is not cool.
Yes, we can get kind of testy with you in this part of the forum but we are not being mean or nasty. We are being kind to you and that is cool.
Last edited by Jorja; 09-18-2014 at 03:57 PM.
@ Jorja - transition is a terrible process, but it beats being worm food. At least so far from my perspective.
Just because transition is a terrible process, and all of the realities that go along with it, doesn't mean that we need to show harsh attitudes, nor beat up on people because they're being kind as in the sense that Samantha is talking about.
Now let me ask you one question, about a similar process. Alcoholism recovery, which I have a lot of experience in. I have 7 years sober so I am definitely qualified to speak about alcohol recovery.
Imagine what it would be like going to an AA meeting or a sober living or alcohol treatment center, which is supposed to help you stay sober. While there
1. Other people tell you that you are not a real alcoholic, so go drink on. Reasons people might tell you that you are not a real alcoholic.
a. You are too young
b. You were never married
c. You never got fired from work
d. You didn't start drinking until after 6pm
e. You don't have problems or weren't addicted to drugs other than alcohol
f. You are female - only men can be alcoholics
2. They serve alcohol at the meeting or treatment facility, openly tempting you to drink the entire time you're there
3. People pushing your buttons so they drive you to drink.
4. People discouraging you to stop drinking because you won't get the wife, car, house, kids, or anything back. You might even lose the wife, car, house, or kids in sobriety.
5. People telling you there is nothing cool about going to a meeting where there is coffee, cake, and a bunch of dudes who talk about their drunkalogs.
6. People telling you there is noting cool about being an alcoholic.
Btw, not everyone who is an addict loses their wife, car, house, money, or kids while active in their addiction. I have heard stories of people who lost nothing before they got sober, and lost a lot of or everything after they got sober. But that doesn't mean we encourage you to go back to drinking, does it?
Well, duh, there is nothing cool about being an alcoholic. But AA certainly helps me, because I am an alcoholic, because I need to stay sober, and because we maintain a positive attitude even during dark times.
There is nothing cool about getting your body mutilated either. There is nothing cool about wanting to commit suicide because of the misalignment between the mind with body and social role. But me being a TS, I need to transition, and feel much better about myself because I am free to be myself. And in spite of the fact that some people may feel a need to be harsh, I find that many people in the trans community try to maintain a positive attitude even during dark times. Does this sound familiar?
Last edited by Michelle789; 09-18-2014 at 05:11 PM.
I've finally mastered the art of making salads. My favorite is a delicious Mediterranean salad.
I don't know if you have ever noticed, but those that have transitioned successfully have not described transition as a terrible process. We say it's not easy, it needs to be planned, don't rush in like a fool, be prepared, and reflect, contemplate and make sure this process is for you. Terrible, not so much, for those that truly need it, it is life affirming, it is authenticating, it is beautiful and it is the most important step in our lives. And those that have taken this step and succeeded have nothing to complain about once it is done.
It is one of the reasons why we are horrified but the terrible stories people tell about their process. You can read this over and over again on this board, the crie the coeur, the horrible suffering, just read the damn thread titles. The reaction by and large is nothing but soothing tsk, tsk, the "kind words" which reek of "I am so glad that this is not me" but are there any lessons from this?
So when then is it appropriate to talk about the realities of those that are about to create this so often repeated suffering for themselves. The lessons of reality, which are not about the time after someone has found themselves in the hell hole, should be learned long before, long before you actually make your first steps. That is the time to challenge.
"Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)
I've read through your list,
In fact, I checked twice,
Trying to see who's naughty, not nice,
But all I can come up with,
Is zilch.
Seriously? No. I find very little of what is in your post to be comparable.
Lea
To be fair, it is frequently described here by successful transitioners as being painful, sucking, and destroying lives. It isn't a big stretch to interpret that as being pretty terrible. I do see a strongly negative tone being used frequently here, and those who don't adopt a similar tone are sometimes treated pretty disrespectfully. Your underlying message is perfectly sound here: it's not a game, nor something to be approached without a lot of caution and preparation, and people do need periodic reality checks. They also deserve to know that there's something to hope for on the other side and that there are some experiences that aren't unrelenting tales of woe.
An array of viewpoints helps a great deal, and piling on to reinforce a monoculture doesn't allow for that. On occasions when we get a real case of pink fog or an imposter around here we do tend to see most of the regulars arrive at similar conclusions even if they come at it from different directions.
~ Kimberly
“To escape criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." - Elbert Hubbard
There are many reasons why many of us transition later in life. Here are a few of that I personally had to deal with.
Even as young as 3 years old, I preferred to play with girls instead of boys. I literally didn't have the instincts to safely play with boys, even boys my own age. i didn't fight back or push back when pushed, or when my toys were taken. As a result, I often became a target of EVERY boy who simply took EVERYTHING and pushed me into the corner. It was only when there was no way out that I would scream and lash out, and then break down crying.
On the other hand, playing with girls was natural. They types of games we played encouraged cooperation and sharing conflicts were rare and easily resolved.
It wasn't until I was in 1st grade and told that because I was a boy and couldn't play with girls, that I could verbalize "I want to be a girl!".
When I did tell them, several times, they didn't take me seriously, until one night my mom caught me in the bathroom wearing her clothes.
I also came home with bruises on my chest, waist, legs, any place covered by pants and shirt. Often, I would come home crying loudly, and between sobs saying "I wish I was a girl!"
Mom was seeing a therapist herself, and asked her therapist what she should do about my desire to be a girl.
He told her "We treat that with electroshock, aversion therapy, and if that fails, a lobotomy.
He went on to explain that aversion therapy was essentially torture, a combination of electric shocks to genitals, visual stimulus, and drugs to induce fear, nausea, vomiting, and pain - all at the same time.
Mom had been through shock therapy - she once described it as 90 seconds of agony that seems like hours, followed by oblivion for a day.
She was determined that she would keep my desire to be a girl a secret until she could find some REAL help.
By 4th grade, my asthma was so bad I was put into a research project. For six weeks, I stayed with the girls' house mother and spent weekends and evenings with 30 girls - it was supposed to stress me out.
Instead, my asthma recovered so dramatically they were thinking about having me live in the boys dorm.
When they had me spend 6 weeks with the boys' house mother, and spend weekends and evenings with boys, my asthma got so severe I almost had to be hospitalized twice.
They had me see a psychologist, at first almost every day. It took a while to build up enough trust to tell him I wanted to be a girl.
He wasn't surprised at all, he even said "we know that, it's pretty obvious, but it's not something we can do at this point, we can't even discuss it".
He taught me biofeedback techniques, learning to control my emotional state to reduce the severity of the attacks. From first grade to sixth grade, I was hospitalized 64 times.
Mom did what she could to support me. She taught me to cook, clean, sew, crochet, knit, do needlework, beadwork, and various other crafts.
Dad took me to symphonies, ballet, and opera, as well as learning to sing, and play the clarinet. He even told me that according to a test he took in college, he was 75% female himself.
When mom and I were the same size, she would take me shopping and let me pick out her clothes for church and for work. I had a real talent for fashion, and she always got compliments.
She also told me when she was putting these clothes into the good-will bag. I could take clothes from the goodwill bag, because she didn't like it when I would steal her clothes.
She would also tie her hose together after she wore them. I could wash them and keep them if they had the knot. I noticed that many didn't even have runs.
When I was 10, my father took me into his bedroom and started reading books about the biology of sex. The books were technical, not erotic, and used the proper medical terms for everything.
He then explained that I didn't have testes like other boys because mine were up inside me like ovaries - I hoped that they really were ovaries - he told me that if they didn't come down by the time
I was 12, they would do surgery to bring them down. The books also described puberty of both boys and girls, including periods, wet dreams, and the usual stuff. As he read the parts about how girls change, he could see me getting interested, excited, even wishing for it. When he read about how boys change, he could see my looks of disgust and could see me getting upset.
When my testes did come down, I was furious. I read what I could about castration, and tried "do it yourself", using a bunch of rubber bands to strangle them, even using a hammer and a 2x4 to try and destroy them. Nothing worked. When I turned 14 a music teacher told me I had a Bass voice, I went into self destruct mode, turning to booze, drugs, and even being suicidal. As a result, I was misdiagnosed with epilepsy and couldn't drive for 2 years.
When I was in 8th or 9th grade, they did the movie about Christine Jorgensen, and Myra Breckenridge. I learned that it was medically possible to be a girl. I also learned that it was incredibly expensive. My parents found out that doctors could lose their medical licenses and hospital priviledges for such things. I was trapped, I was changing, and I knew it.
Because I was so feminine, I found that more and more of my male friends were approaching me romantically. My cousin tried to kiss me, other boys wanted sexual favors. As Rex I wanted nothing to do with sex. In my fantasies, I was always a girl, with another girl. When I would dress up and watch TV or read magazines, I would find certain men attractive, but after being violently attacked so many times, I wanted nothing to do with them for real. Still, I began to learn who actually was gay, and after a while, I just started introducing my would-be suitors to each other. The gay jocks protected me, and I was encouraged to get involved with theater. Maybe they could even teach me how to act more like a boy or a man. By default, everything I did was feminine, gestures, walk, sitting, standing, giggling, covering my mouth when I laughed. It was all obviously girl even when I was trying to act like a boy.
I got into women's college, because they needed some guys for the choir and theater. But socially, I was almost always "one of the girls". On Stage crew, I took a lot of abuse from the other guys. They could see that I was girlie, and would give me the worst possible jobs, hoping I would quit, but when I came back smiling and said "That's done, what's next?", they finally started treating me like the other girl tom-boys on the crew. These girls took me under their wing and stuck up for me. In college, I was officially a virgin, even though I had a lesbian lover for almost 9 months.
When I had to drop out for a year because my dad drank the tuition money, I went to a community college and got cast in a show there. An 18 year old girl, a professional fashion model, decided to seduce every member of the cast, and I was turning out to be a bit difficult. I was her last one, and she figured it would be a one night stand, but when I told her I was a virgin, she set up a meet at her house. Now that I had more time, I did my "lesbian thing", and the one night stand ended up lasting 6 months. However, the moment she found out that I was transgender, that I might enjoy wearing her sexy lingerie, and more, she dropped me hard. When combined with a number of other upsets and traumas, I ended up in a mental health program.
When I told them I wanted to be a girl, again they weren't surprised, but they told me "we can't even talk about that". The good thing that came out of the treatment program was that I got clean and sober, I had a few relapses, but had my last drink 3 years later in may of 1980.
When I met Leslie, I told her I was transgendered, about 3 weeks after we moved in together. She tried to be nice about it, but made it clear that she was only comfortable with it at home in the bedroom. So of course I didn't tell her that what I really wanted was to transition. Even before the wedding, she began to balk, and we suffered through 8 years of painful marriage. The best parts were our two children. I loved taking care of them, holding them, feeding them, changing their diapers, giving them baths, being a mommy. On friday night, when I came home from work I would go "My Baby", and would do everything so Leslie could relax for the week-end. On Monday morning, She would say "my baby", so I could work my long and crazy hours.
In sobriety, I did the 12 steps several times, and eventually found a sponsor who wanted to work with Debbie. I wrote it out in my inventory, about how I wanted to be a girl. He asked "What's her name", and he gave me a week to come up with one. He told me to write several pages of inventory, as Debbie, fully dressed, at home. He was surprised at the neater hand-writing, better grammar, and more personal details. There were also more feelings. He also noticed that I came up with far more than expected in far less time than usual. He pointed these things out.
He then said "So when do we meet Debbie". It was early August, and I said "Halloween?". He said "OK, that's a start". He then gave me little baby steps, like changing in the car and driving a few blocks, the next day a few miles, the next day putting on make-up, the next day walking in an isolated park, one step at a time, helping me to become confident enough to wear the dress on the appointed day.
In the mean-time, my marriage was getting ugly. We went to couple's counseling. Leslie was quite happy to tell him I dressed up and expected him to villify me and vindicate me. Instead he set up private sessions for each of us. I recognize a few of the questions he asked me from the COGIATI but there were more. He was also interested in how I answered as well as the answers themselves.
When he saw us together he explained to Leslie that I was a type 6 transsexual. He went on to state that he was surprised, most transsexuals as extreme as me that he had worked with, had either transitioned in their mid to late twenties, or had committed suicide. He suggested that one possibility was that the marriage had sustained me enough to keep me sane and healthy.
I was referred to a new therapist for transition coaching, the official diagnosis was "battered spouse syndrome", it didn't make sense until I read the description, and realized it was a perfect fit. The therapist was surprised at how quickly and easily I took on the Real Life Experiences, and within a few monhs I was living primarily as female other than work. He was ready to reccomend me for hormones.
It finally came to a point where my wife showed me a letter. Her husband's sister told a friend at her church about me, the friend introduced Leslie to a social worker who was a member of this fundamentalist Christian (Nazarene) church. The letter stated that my visitations were detrimental to the kids and my visitation should be revoked or limited to 1 hour of supervised visitation every 2 weeks. Leslie also pointed out that this would not reduce or eliminate my need to pay child support. I also knew that her husband had been whipping my son with a belt. She told me that if I didn't stop transition immediately, I would never see my kids again.
I moved from Colorado to NY in hopes that she would at least let me continue to talk to them on the phone. Then she demanded that I send her pictures of Debbie so she could prove to my son that I dressed like a girl. Instead, I had her put my son on the phone, told him I had wanted to be a girl for a long time, that Leslie knew, and that I didn't tell her until after we were living together. I also told him that it didn't change the fact that I loved him and wanted him to be happy.
I knew that if I ever wanted to see the kids face to face again, I would have to abort the transition, at least until they were 18 and could make their own decisions.
When my youngest turned 18, 14 years later, i had gained a LOT of weight. I remarried, but this time my wife knew that I was transgender, and "in the ideal world, I'd transition in a heartbeat, but it's not an option right now". My daughter finished college, and I was free. At that point, I had a stroke that took out my left side. I went to my daughter's wedding sporting a cane, and accepting all the "special assistance" that was appropriate. I was quite shocked to see that her step-father, who was 10 years younger than me, looked 30 years older than me. Leslie was even friendly toward me.
It took about a year to fully recover from the stroke, and it was a wake-up call. I realized that I needed access to many things that only seemed to be available to me as Debbie. In fact, much of the reason I recovered from the stroke at all was because Debbie had taken over. I took on getting back into gender therapy, dressing, and losing weight. I went from a size 24 to a size 16 in less than 14 months. Debbie was good for me.
When my wife began to realize that I was seriously considering transition, and was about to start hormones she said "I'm not OK with that". We had talked, but not enough. I literally went nuts. I'd wake up at 3 AM with suicidal thoughts. I was watching "1001 ways to die" and cold case files to see which ways were most effective. I was scaring myself. When I talked to my doctor about these feelings, she gave me 30 minutes to get to the local psych ward - she told me that if I wasn't there when she called, she would call the police and have THEM take me.
It was a wake-up call for everybody. I agreed to go to more 12 step meetings, get back into gender therapy, and have Lee come with me. Lee also insisted that I tell her how Debbie was doing and even encouraged me to get back on RLE. She began to realize that she actually liked Debbie more than she liked Rex. She could see that I was much happier. The therapist recommended that I start hormones. Within a year, I had to start working as a woman because I couldn't hide it anymore. This spring, I got my legal documents changed so I am now legally Deborah, and I am legally female.
I can't tell you how much happier I am. I still have things to deal with, challenges at work, irritating people, and so on, but I just seem to enjoy everything so much more. Furthermore, everyone who knew Rex and now knows Debbie, likes Debbie MUCH more. Rex was a loner, isolated, even a bit anti-social. It was an obvious strain to try and maintain the mask. I'd do "factoid dumps", to avoid talking about real feelings. Debbie on the other hand generally loves people, she's happy and it shows, she's patient, she listens more, and doesn't feel as threatened by confrontation.
What's really interesting is how little the physical things changed. I had a bass singing voice but my speaking voice was always high. Most of my mannerisms were feminine as well, not like an effeminate gay man, but like a woman. When I put on the dress, wig, and make-up, I actually look normal. When I took my wife's coaching and dressed age appropriate, situation appropriate, and weight appropriate, I found that I blended in so completely that people are often shocked when I tell them that I was a man until about 2 years ago. Several people have asked how Lee and I could possibly have been married in 2006 since gay marriage wasn't legalized until a few years later. Lee gives the cutest little grin and says "He used to be my husband, but now she's an even better wife".
When you see a 50+ year old MtF, and they are finally in transition, just remember that they have been on the front lines, they are the hard core survivors, they are the miracles who somehow managed to keep their sanity long enough to see the day when they could be themselves. We beat incredible odds. A recent study done in the last few months got responses from 9 MILLION transgender and transsexual people. The results confirmed previous research and showed the staggering reality of how much of a difference transition can make. Current estimates are that nearly 30% of all transsexuals actually commit suicide when they are unable to transition. Nearly 75% of the survivors have attempted it at least once by the time they were 30. Most of those who did not transition suffered persection, were forced out of their homes, had to resort to illegal activities such as prostitution and drug dealing, and host had been the victim of violent crimes.
On the flip side, those who did transition were happier, healthier, more successful, experienced less discrimination, and were satisfied with their lives.
Imagine that you had a disease with a 35% mortality rate, a 75% morbidity rate, and all it took to cure it was some pills and maybe some surgery. If it was cancer, would they tell you to get out of the house and die? I think not. This is why the American Psychiatric Association and the American Medical Association have now declared that it is UNETHICAL for a medical practitioner to try and convince a transsexual who meets the criteria to NOT transition. The AMA is even advocating that all insurance plans cover HRT and SRS.
We've come a LONG WAY in 50 years.
Facebook - Debbie Lawrence
Web - [URL="http://www.debbieballard.org"]DebbieBallard.org{/URL]
See also:
Open4Success
In the other thread my answer to this question was that it was mostly fear, which is true but still only a part of it.
Really I find it very complicated and difficult to answer. How do you compare what was going on inside one person to what was going on inside of another person? You can't really.
Why it took me so long, I don't have a definite answer. I did not have any real clarity about the issue. I had the body I had and thats how I was identified by everyone else - as a boy. Yet I had a deep wanting / wishing / need to be a girl. It was very conflicting and confusing for me even when I was really young, and it was my secret. I would not talk to anyone about it.
The way I internalized that was to think of myself as bad, or wrong, or sick, or perverted, someone even god could not love. I had a lot of self loathing, a lot of shame about it. I did not consider the idea that I could really be a girl that just ended up in a male body. My mind did not make that leap. However I did suspect I was transsexual or transvestite based on the few clips about such people on tv way back when but I did not know the differences or what either really meant, I was just relating somewhat to the people I saw (and I really did NOT want it to be true that I was like them!). But I could not get my mind around it all.
My late teens and early twenties were a very interesting time. That gender issue was very much there. In my heavy drinking it did slip out, my secret was not as well contained as I liked to think that it was. One night, a holloween, I crossdressed and went out. My first time in public crossdressed! It was pretty horrific though, not much fun. I wanted it to be real so badly, I was very drunk, and feelings I had been trying to keep stuffed inside came gushing out. It was very embarrassing and it was ugly, and it really messed with my head. it sent me running to a psychiatrist. During my time with him we did not not get deep into the gender issue though, he was mostly focused on my drinking, depression, relationships and figuring out what medications i needed to be on (what an amazing cocktail of drugs he had me taking!).
Maybe if we had been able to focus more on the gender issue, if I could have gotten past the shame and fear and if he could have helped me understand it better then things would have been different? But it instead once I was sobered up I had greater resolve to stuff what I felt down and try harder to accept my life as male. I found god. Over the next 15 years I kept it somewhat under control but there was a lot of self hatred, depression, self injury - yet there was some sort of balance to it all. Sometimes I would scream and hit myself, punish myself - like all that internal pressure just had to get out somehow. It was kinda crazy.
My second great crossdressing event in public in 2008 mucked up what balance I had. Like the first time it just overwhelmed me how much I wished it were real! that I was real, and not a guy in a dress. That was the tipping point that sent me spiraling down into the worst depression for the next couple years as I tried to figure it all out, and eventually to seek professional help from someone who seemed to know a lot more about the issue then the first person I had seen years ago. I also started to come into more contact with others via the internet and in RL. Thats how I ended up here in 2009 and the time I was grasping and one of my ideas was to learn to enjoy and control crossdressing. But I quickly gravitated to the TS section. Things finally started to become more clear to me.
So it took me more years to reach some understanding about what was really wrong with me, to change my thinking of it as being a sick perverted person to thinking of myself as a woman that just ended up with a male body,
You had that clarity a lot younger then I did.
It's nice when you have the option to plan for this. Some of us don't really get that chance. We sit in denial of the reality of our misery until death seems like the only, and possibly best, alternative. At least that's how it was for me. There was no "plan" - there was "do this NOW, or die."
As for being a terrible process, I've lost many things - my marriage to the love of my life, the home where I wished to retire, my observatory (a lifelong dream and hobby), my kids, most of my prior friends. I'm one of the lucky ones. I still have a career. I have money. And I'll get through this - of this I have no doubt. (Actually, at this point, struggles or no, I'm much happier than I've ever been.) These were grievous losses though, and I feared them. It was only when I realized that I'd gone through and survived similar losses before that I had the courage to go forward. I knew I could survive transition. I sure didn't want to repeat the experience though.
I've watched others endure far worse - assault, rape, loss of their career and livelihood, terrible loneliness, poverty, all because of transition. Those are pretty terrible experiences.
Sure, this stuff isn't so bad if you are financially well off, white, and have a profession where people don't generally care whether or not you transition, and you have SOMEONE in your life who's supportive. If you don't think transition is a terrible process, try doing it when you are dead broke, uninsured, with no job, no vehicle, and no friends or support. (Add in being a minority, for extra suffering.) Unfortunately, GD doesn't much care for your life situation.
The main thing I often don't see mentioned here is the notion that there really is hope on the other side of transition, and that it gets better.
Hey look - it's really great if you can plan and organize your life and situation so that you have the best opportunities for success in your transition. If you can do that, then by all means, you should. Congrats - you didn't wait too long to start transition. Some of us do wait too long, and the process can be much harder.
Last edited by PaulaQ; 09-18-2014 at 06:53 PM.
A couple of things: The Internet, 50th birthday coming, being w/o mate finally and the realization that life is short and there is a definite end to it. I didn't want to grow old mumbling "I should've..."
Maude
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Maude
Admit to self: July 2013 - Part Time: October 2013 - HRT: January 2014 - Name change: October 2014 - Full Time: ~March 2015
My experience was not much fun, it was rather terrible at times (but necessary). I have seen others go through much worse then me to. Lose your job, family, get alienated in your community. Things can get very ugly in a persons life, fast.
Peoples experiences are different. You may have breezed through it, some do, but not everyone is so fortunate.
Debbie, you need to get your facts straight.
Here's one: there are no figures available on actual transsexual mortality rates.
Where you go from there is extrapolation from other data. There are many different approaches possible. But even using the most aggressive attempt rates, intersecting those with available statistics on suicide deaths associated with attempts in other populations and across demographics, then applying them to the most conservative estimates of the transsexual population doesn't get you to a 35% mortality rate.
You've quoted these sorts of statistics before. Do you like their drama for some reason? (If so, you are not alone in this.) In my opinion, it hurts more than it helps by overemphasizing the focus on suicide and away from the aspects of the condition that need relatively more attention. As the latter includes things like comorbid conditions and pain, people often take these concerns to be one and the same with suicide prevention. They are not.
Taking this specifically to the concerns of the OP, there are some useful observations to be made along the lines that I suggest above. First, suicide attempt rates are lower among older people. They are much more efficient at killing themselves then younger people, however. Some subgroups have death to attempt rates as low as 1 out of 100. Older people as a group have rates that are more like 1 out of 10. And, of course, a lot of late transitioners experience a lot of pain and conflict. "Holy moly," you might say. "That must mean we need to scramble on suicide prevention for late transitioners"!
To which I would say no. Suicide prevention is education and contact focused. Awareness programs. Hotlines. Pattern recognition training. Crisis intervention. Etc. What many late transitioners (and potential transitioners) need more then anything else is the facts on what is going on inside them, contact with other transsexuals, and a healthy dose of reality-based planning.
Lea
Being TS lays your life bare
no bs allowed. reality only please...
the whole kindness thing is not reality based...
the "accusation" is not real...the "solution" is hopelessly trite... there is simply no time for it if you are for real....
There is no reason to be mean to someone just to be mean... altho that has happened on occasion, its just a personal thing between posters..its intermittent ...it happens...but we are a big group talking about massive life changing issues...
The only real meanness I've seen here comes from the very folks that whine the most about how they are treated and how people respond to them....
recently the most viciously mean statements all came from the same place...they came from being challenged by reality
....the frustrating thing about reality is that there is nothing you can do to change it, you can only respond to it.
and feeling helpless against something you can't affect is a big source of anger ..
With all due respect to everyone here (and I mean this sincerely) I don't really care about why I'm a late transitioner (and I am really really late .. I began when I was 66). All my life I've been emotionally-mentally screwed up, and I've always know I've wanted to be a girl. But until recently I have never associated one with the other. At various times in my life I've been diagnosed as mildly schizophrenic and maniac-depressive. When one psychologist asked me what I most wanted to be or do in my life, I replied I wanted to be a girl.
"But you know you are not a girl, correct?"
"No, I don't know that. I feel that I am."
"You know you have a male body, correct?"
"Yes, but that doesn't change how I feel."
From that brilliant conversation, I was diagnosed as having a "Borderline Personality Disorder." When I told another therapist I found it impossible to form emotional attachments with others, he said I had an "Attachment Disorder". Great. I'm paying $50 an hour for someone to place a label on what I already know is true about myself. I did get a prescription for Prozac out of that session, and that helped a lot.
So I remained dumb and crazy until last year when I had a chance encounter with one of my departed wife's old friends. I asked her what it was like growing up trans. The words she used to describe her experience described my life as well. She gave me some of her hormones to try and from that day on my life changed for the better. I knew I was trans and I saw a way out of my craziness. |
Fast forward 14 months later, I take my hormones under my doctor's care and I have a therapist who is coaching (more like mothering) me through transition. Miraculously I've lost my fear of appearing in public as me and I spend far too much money on clothes. Although I'm not out to everyone just yet, I plan to have surgery in a year. So, like I said, I don't care why it took me so long. It is what it is and I am what I am. I do know that I've never been happier in my life than I am now, and that's what matters.
Last edited by Cheryl123; 09-19-2014 at 01:02 PM. Reason: spelling
This where I say there are no hidden agendas with the reposting of the question. The question was originally asked by a well respected senior member that transitioned fully at a young age. I found it a good chance to share how people arrived at the decision to transition and when. It is not a competition nor was asked to be degrading or judgmental.
It has been a good thread (I think) for TS members to share their stories and I can see where it will help others to understand why we eventually decide to transition. It shows that we are all human.
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