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  1. #1
    Gone to live my life
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    Going to rant a bit

    Hi all,

    Last night I read a post in the "loved ones forum" about one ours who has decided to repress her desires rather than risk losing her SO to disclosure. Specifically she is boxing her female identity and is willing to risk the emotional trauma that goes with it. She wasn't saying that she is planning to continue dressing and not tell her SO . . . she is trying to quit, purge and so forth. She was honest in that she knows it will be hard but that is what she is willing to do for her relationship. Now for the most part the comments were supportive and/or benign but as always happens with this "tell / don't tell" polarized debate, some people latch on with hurtful and downright nasty comments. Really do terms like liar, coward, deceitful and so on do anyone but yourself any good? Is it cathartic to let loose with sniping comments without any understanding how those words can affect people's emotional being? You don't know where a person's mindset is when they post a thought or share an epiphany and the words you commit to posts can have consequences. Surely on some level you must understand that?

    We all know and I am sure some of us have experienced the depths of emotional trauma this thing we do can bring us to and I am talking about a very bad place. You may be emotionally anchored in this world but not everyone is and your one misguided attempt to be snarky could throw a person off kilter and they could end up doing something very serious. However, you won't know will you? That person will just cease to exist on this forum and you'll just assume they decided to run and hide because you told them what for. Seriously, how many here wonder what happens to those who have a bad experience on this forum and just disappear. We may think about it for a second but then file it away. IMHO some here really need to learn how to take responsibility for the things they write. Before you submit words to post, try thinking of the post like an up close and personal conversation . . . Would you be that nasty and rude to someone in person? Hmm . . . I am thinking most likely not. It is easy to hide behind a keyboard and electronic devices when sending out snide comments it is a lot harder to temper your emotion with common sense and good judgement. Not to mention most people would be afraid of the other person unleashing right back at them. Here is an exercise to consider. Try writing your comments down, leave them for a period of twelve hours, reread them in the context of what spawned them, temper the emotion and then edit (BTW . . . this post looked a whole lot different 12 hours ago ). I think you will find good judgment and common sense will prevail. Then and only then, press send.

    Folks, when it comes to telling our SOs, that is a personal choice and each person's circumstances are different depending on when they found out themselves, how strong the relationship is, where they are emotionally and whole host of differences. CDing is not a shower cap "one size fits all" and what works for some may not work for others. So you came out to your SO on your first date . . . good for you and I applaud your strength of conviction. But that does not give you the right to call someone who has been in a committed relationship for 20 plus years, someone who is a good person, a loving and caring partner, a liar and coward. You know everything about your own life but you know nothing about that person and it is arrogant to assume you do. You are not the poster child for all things TG or a perfect example to hold up and say . . . "Hey this is the way it needs to be done because I am perfect".

    Dispense advice by all means. But advice needs to be tempered with good judgment, understanding and politeness, not rude smarmy one liners. Some will say sometimes people need tough love to understand and I agree but tough love means understanding, caring, support with an underlying message of what you should do. Tough love is not rude, condescending comments. You can make your point by simply letting the person know from your own experience how you went about it, how it helped you and so on, that is tough love and good advice and for the most part that is what is found here and that is what makes this such a great place and beacon in all this chaos.

    If you think others see you as a "hard nosed gal telling it like it is" . . . well perhaps others like yourself do but I dare say most don't. So next time before you let loose with rude comments, try turning that introspective lens inward and examining your own concept of perfection.

    Hugs

    Isha
    Last edited by Marcelle; 09-17-2014 at 03:41 AM.

  2. #2
    There's that smile! CarlaWestin's Avatar
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    Isha, thank you for pointing out etiquette and protocol. I've had some of my posted comments met with nasty revulsion. I've also been guilty of posting about my attitude as an older CD not being the most sensitive way to mentor younger CD's. I forget that the, just go for it, if it feels good do it, what have you got to lose, attitude is just not one size fits all. Your well written and thoughtful posts are a good example for all of us.
    I've waited so long for this time. Makeup is so frustrating. Shaking hands and I look so old. This was a mistake.
    My new maid's outfit is cute. Sure fits tight.
    And then I step into the bedroom and in the mirror, I see a beautiful woman looking back at me.
    Smile, Honey! You look fabulous!

  3. #3
    Cat's Eye Siren ArleneRaquel's Avatar
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    Excellent post Isha. Keep up the great posts darlin.
    Fulfilling a Lifetime Dream of Living as a Woman in My Adult Years. Ten Years Living 24/7 as a Mature Lady

    My Love of Cat's Eye Frames, Bangles, Red Lipstick, Nails, & Cheeks, Comes From My Mother - An Irish Beauty

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  4. #4
    The Mad Scientist
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    Isha,

    Well said, as always. I agree on all points 150%.

    Support may not be the first thing that brought us TOGETHER HERE but in the end - support is what keeps us here.

    Failure to do that for others in an obvious time of need or crisis in a meaningful way - is not something that I easily excuse.
    We all need support (in one way or another - at one time or another).

    If you can't show love - show acceptance for the struggle!

  5. #5
    Member Talisker's Avatar
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    Isha - I think some of this is related to folks putting their own situation onto others. Some of the TS are actually the most vocal and sure that all will follow their path. It's almost self justification. Others seem detached from reality IMHO but if they ask for an opinion should you lie to keep them happy? how much should you read into a few lines of text on the Internet anyway. Another part is the site access. I use a phone so there are no novels but I do tend to stay away from the more serious topics. For some CDS it's just not as serious for others and you can't always tell from a bit of text. This site is great and full of ideas but serious problems often need a face 2 face professional.
    Last edited by Talisker; 09-15-2014 at 07:19 AM.
    Talisker because i like the taste and dont need another name or personality but needed some letters (numbers arent allowed on here). Found out later its a rare mans name on a small scottish island.

    Sexually attracted to things with human female characteristics - Talisker, GGs, CDs, cheetara etc.
    Male things can be useful a CD accessory and for drinks or currys, directions and lifting stuff.

  6. #6
    Member Nadya's Avatar
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    Well said. I do not care for the attitude of "manning up" and having the one size fits all approach to being a CD, TS or TV. We all have different situations, backgrounds, etc. that regardless of how you feel personally, we should maintain a supportive environment. For as long as there has been the internet/forums, there has always been people making comments without thinking of the consequences. We need to remember that many of us although feel rather anonymous, we still pour our hearts out in an effort for emotional support. People can often forget that even if they have good intentions, their comments can be misinterpreted. Internet responsibly, people.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Laura912's Avatar
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    Isha, well said or written. It is the conundrum of directive vs non-directive counseling, the latter being the preferred so that the advisor does not impose their own judgements on others.

  8. #8
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    This is one of those subjects that I usually do not comment on. But I would like to say that Isha is very right about it. A very thought full and smart post. I agree with her statement myself.

  9. #9
    Genderfluid Swiftie DanielleLee's Avatar
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    Very well thought out and written post. I agree with what you've said in 100% and am restraining the urge to add my own 2¢ about the nasty comments I see towards those who feel they aren't in position to tell.

  10. #10
    Member vicky_cd99_2's Avatar
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    Isha that was a very well put post. We do need to think of the feelings of others before we open our mouths. No matter how wide our shoulders might be our psyche might not be as wide or as strong when it comes to a basic verbal smack down. When it comes from an outsider, outside of close family and friends, it can be truly painful.

  11. #11
    Careful I bite <3
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    I'm going to be one of the few dissenting voices here, but only on one real point.

    There is a big difference in telling people they are being deceitful, or breaching trust, and trying to injure someone emotionally.

    Visibility is a big issue right now for trans individuals (and being fought quite a bit by Transgendered pretty openly just in the last year), and the only thing that solves for the individual is feelings and side effects of being deceitful. The only way for us as a community to lift ourselves up is to not justify it away too easily, especially if we dream of progress on these issues. The key thing is to strive to find a better way every time (every generation, hell every decade).

    The only way to temper the extreme version of this is to leave the decision to the individual and empower people to make their own personal decision. As others have said, there are many mitigating factors to someone outing themselves (work, family, etc), and by no means do I think the "it worked for me it can work for you arguments" are really helpful. While we have to own up to the way we choose to live our lives, by no means is it helpful to make someone feel as if they are doing less than what is right for them. For starters, some of the ways these things can be said I think are the inspiration for this thread. They can leave people feeling as if they are being looked down upon, and treated as inferior. I'd add to that, that making people as if they aren't particularly capable for making their own decisions undermines their self confidence, and actually lowers people's self confidence. Confidence only found from facing the way you live your life, and knowing your doing the best to find a better way each time.

    In order to achieve the first part the person needs self confidence, which means that any time you try to take the general concept of the deceit, and THEN add VERY specific conditions to it, you are doing everyone a disservice.

  12. #12
    its important mykell's Avatar
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    ....Mykell
    i dressed like a girl and i liked it! crossdressing...theirs an app for that

  13. #13
    0 to trans in 60 seconds! Donnagirl's Avatar
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    Isha,

    I can only agree.... We should limit our intrusion into others life, relationships and emotions to examples of experiences and life lessons. Let them take what is of value to them and discard what is not. We should be focused on support, being the friendly ear to listen or virtual shoulder to cry on. I will never accept someone judging my decisions, my negotiations, the give and take and understanding with my family. No one can every truly know the nuances, the salient points that make my relationship strong or what can tear it asunder with a careless word... I don't profess to know anywhere enough to counsel, so I don't.. And I won't....

    This forum can, and does, provide a valuable tool to assist. It certainly helped (saved) me and my relationship. For that I am eternally grateful. Positive support regardless of personal judgement should be the catch cry...
    Call me Donna, please

  14. #14
    Aspiring Member phylis anne's Avatar
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    Well spoken Isha,
    I too am one of those in dire fear of coming out to my family ,friends and workmates ,because mostly of the narrowminded attitudes and othe rissues so I choose to be phylis when it is safe to do so . Secrets? surely many people have them for their own reasons . I have only been a memeber here for a month or so and I have learned much from all of you even when a "mod" would chase me with a rolled up newspaper LOL to correct me on needed issues ,I did not feel bad from this ,instead I grew to appreciate this watchful outlook on the board as it has made it a pleasant place to be thankyou all for that. I have approached my style as somewhat unisex/blended until I get more comfy in public then maybe a little more ,so to cap this no matter who you are you are an individual and only you can decide when to tell or not tell others ,or how far in public you wish to dress do what keeps you safe ,happy and in your comfort zone
    hugs phylis anne

  15. #15
    Member KittyD's Avatar
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    I hear ya Isha...
    As you know my arty-farty freaky ways with Cding can bring some strange remarks, that have hurt...
    You'd think you were safe from a slap down...
    Does the forum have a naughty step?

    KD

  16. #16
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    I agree with you whole heartedly Isha. When it comes to personal decisions, I always encourage the person to do so. Really, who am I to judge anyone? My purpose rather is to encourage whenever possible. Having gone through two tours in Vietnam and coming out in one piece I am here by grace anyway. That is the way I look at things.
    Second star to the right and straight on till morning

  17. #17
    MIDI warrior princess Amy Fakley's Avatar
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    I'll just leave this here

    http://i.giphy.com/KsgLFgQp7Elj2.gif

    well said, Isha!
    "Why shouldn't art be pretty? There are enough unpleasant things in the world." -Pierre-Auguste Renoir

  18. #18
    Senior Member Eringirl's Avatar
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    well said Isha. How can someone make such commons without walking a mile in that person's heels?? The only information you have is what is in the post. That is extremely limited. We don't have the entire picture and even if we did, how are such comments helpful? People come here and post here because they find it helpful, to express their thoughts and feelings in what is typically a supportive environment. If someone asks for honest opinions, should that be what they receive? Sure, but there are ways to do this. Tact and diplomacy. The old saying "if you can't say something nice, then shut up" (okay, so I modified it a bit...). I do a lot of counselling in my job. Laura's comment on directive versus non directive is spot on. And, when you want to tell someone something, before you do, ask yourself this question: "Are my comments going to make me feel better, or make the other person feel better". The choice should be obvious. If not, delete, delete, delete....

    Thanks Isha!!


    Erin
    Seize the day. Life is short, and you're dead a long time...just sayin' ...

  19. #19
    Senior Member Amanda M's Avatar
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    Isha - you have hit several nails on the head. Well done. It turns my stomach to see some of the know-all, "I just tell it like it is" crap that finds its way on here. Laura, I like your comment about directive counselling. When counselling becomes directive, it ceases to be counselling!

    My old Mum used to say "If you have nothing empathetic or helpful to say, then shut up!"
    If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!

  20. #20
    Transman Andy66's Avatar
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    Thank you, Isha. Sometimes we need a little reminder. I feel the way I feel, but I could have said it in a more understanding way. No hate was intended though, just a possibly heavy handed way of trying to help. My bad.

  21. #21
    Sixty Something Gypsy Sam's Avatar
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    Amanda M ,

    Your old Mum was right on the mark. Strive to only offer commentary when asked. Empathetic or helpful is the best road to follow. Majority of people want to be understood which involves listening. Also liked your by line about "always get what you always got." Former supervisor used that for motivation and enjoyed reading that again.

  22. #22
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    Isha thanks for making the point in your usual to the point style !
    There are two sorts of critism constructive and destructive, my father was very good at the latter and fond of the saying do as I say not as I do ! Some members have too many of those traits, if they fail to see it then it should be pointed out to them !
    As you say we have seen some desperate post's from members almost pleading for help only to disappear after the one question ! I only hope they found the answer somewhere !
    I'm one of those who have had a desperate rollercoaster ride over the last fifty years and can say I have very good support from members since joining the forum eight months ago !
    I do feel guilty that I've been too open and honest on the forum about my life but this is the only way I have of understanding and accepting my CDing !
    Some people do appear to be on a self destruct course and put it over badly on the forum , but people should see through this and try to understand and help rather than give a verbal roasting !

  23. #23
    Junior Member
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    Good post Isha,
    I know from being in the closet and now not having to hide that at times I may of been a little harsh.I don't believe I've ever called anyone a derogatory name as I don't think that fits who I am .If for some reason Roxie has ever offended any one this was not my intent.Sometimes I just speak my mind to much ie(big mouth]
    I'll try to be more helpful with my post
    Roxie

  24. #24
    Platinum Blonde member Ressie's Avatar
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    I've seen other (not CD related) forums with much worse troll activity. There's one where I might have even had a part in chasing a member or two away by just giving my opinion. It's easy for typed out words to be seen in the wrong context, since there's no body language or other non-verbal communication to go along with it. It's refreshing to see very little trolling here.

    Are some of us cowards or deceitful for not sharing this with our wives? Those are strong words no doubt that I found a bit shocking. I think many of us have the right to be frightened of what may come about by coming out to the wife.

    Anyway, others can feel hurt even without the intention of hurting. We can't all be equally empathetic and understanding unfortunately.
    "You're the only one to see the changes you take yourself through", Stevie Wonder

  25. #25
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
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    Well put Isha...

    A comprehensive reminder for those prepared to read and digest... I've had similar views myself for a while...

    I'd agree that members can choose to temper their advice but I'd also like to take the opportunity to remind everyone that we (The Mods and Admin) can react to moderate intemperate comments, we just can't be everywhere at once... (No...? No... Omnipotent retrospectively, yes - omniscient and prescient ["look that up in your Funk & Wagnalls.."] sadly, no...)

    So, members are encouraged to use the 'Report Post' function (bottom left corner of every post) rather than to take the matter into their own hands with a playground fight... Both parties always seem to end up in detention in those cases..

    Katey x
    "Put some lipstick on - Perfume your neck and slip your high heels on
    Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear"
    Stefani Germanotta

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