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Thread: Roar like a lion, hide like a mouse...

  1. #1
    Happy in life KlaireLarnia's Avatar
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    Roar like a lion, hide like a mouse...

    Thursday (18th September 2014) I had a thought about dressing which I would like to share with everyone. Before I do it is important for you to understand my position. Some of you may already know this but it is important to understand where I am going with this.

    • I have been dressing since I was 16 (a total of 25 years).
    • I have no desires to transition or change my sex, I am happy being male it feels right and correct. I am 100% male at heart and body. I do NOT under any circumstances ever dress to or because I want to pass as female. I do not understand this “en femme” or letting “xxx” out thing at all.
    • I DO wear female clothes in public and I do so every day, without exception. Whether I wear casual clothes at home, out and about or smart clothes to work – they are 99% of the time female. About 95% of my wardrobe is female clothes. I own absolutely no male underwear, jeans/trousers, jumpers, nightclothes, shoes or socks.
    • My aim/goal is to be able to wear what I want, where I want, when I want. But again I know there are things I cannot wear because they either look wrong on me, or socially it would be going too far at present.
    • I try to wear women’s /female versions of the male clothes I would normally be expected to wear, sometimes I push this a little further but the essence is there.
    • I am married, I have a teenage daughter – both my wife and daughter obviously know how I dress and I am always mind full of them and how they be treated because of how I dress which helps reign it in at times.

    Okay, I wear female clothes on a daily basis which is a conscious decision and as such I have to be aware of a couple of things when choosing items: 1) Does the item appeal to me in terms of design, colour, style etc – same as you would normally. 2) Can I WEAR the item? It is a practical choice, and does it need something “extra” to make it work – or just courage? If I think I can make an item work, then I will consider buying it. Sometimes I change my mind when I try it on and on those cases I return the items accordingly.

    At work I wear a lot of satin blouses/shirts (all with collars). These are obviously female in their design and looks but I wear them as I would any other shirt. My trousers are women’s and don’t always have pockets and most have slightly flared trouser legs. I carry a handbag every day due to my lack of pockets and having a large purse on me at all times. If it is cold I wear women’s jumpers (mostly black or single colour). I wear bras most days, often with silicone breast enhancers in them to define the upper shape of my chest (but depending on what I am wearing will dictate if I leave them in at work). I do not hide the femininity of what I wear is the nutshell and I have never been asked to change or not wear something nor have I been told an item is not suitable/appropriate/acceptable.

    Recently I bought a sheer shirt recently (you can see an image attached at the end) but realised that I needed an undershirt or vest to wear it successfully – the same a woman would have to – but I could not wear a strappy vest but could wear a more standard one. So I bought a satin sleeveless blouse which matched this requirement. The neckline is not too low; the design is simple and should work well under the shirt. There is also a practical use in the top as well as a separate item.
    Now fast forward to the 18th... I had the items, I was happy with the look I was happy and ready to wear them but something niggled me. Because it was something I had not worn before in terms of style and design – the only sheer items I have worn where panel blouses where the arms/shoulders where made of a sheer material but the main blouse/shirt body was solid – I felt nervous. This is crazy given what I do and wear. So I ended up putting a black jumper to cover most of the shirt and vest top. All that remained on show was the collar, part of the upper shirt that was visible through the jumper’s v-neck and the cuffs.

    When I look back I understand why I would not wear the satin vest top on its own, it is not something I could presently wear separately maybe one day, but not yet., . But the shirt/satin vest combination annoyed me yesterday because I know I could wear it, I know I have the confidence to wear it, I know it looked fine – so why did I bottle out at the last moment? I get the jumper initially, I had to drop my daughter to school and there a jumper covers me and massively lowers the risk of other kids seeing something they should not and my daughter being teased or picked on for it. That’s fine, that is what I should always do and I have no issue there.

    But in just 2 years at this job, my firm know what I am like and what I wear. I am not treated badly or anything; people just deal with me as they need too. Some are better than others and I understand that. So where my actions, initially guided to protect my daughter also used to protect me or my work colleagues? How do I move forward from there and do I need to move forward, or just pull back and wait?

    The hardest part of my dressing is just that. Where is the line drawn? Where do push and move a barrier and where do I stop and not try and move that barrier? If I overstep a mark; I risk looking stupid because I could look a mess and not someone who is happy, comfortable, and doing something natural. Going “En Femme” maybe an easier answer at this point because it allows that step into the female, but I cannot take that step because for me, it would be wrong and incorrect. I cannot be something or someone I am not, so that balance is sought between Femininity and masculinity.

    I am considering trying again Monday but taking a second blouse with me which I have worn before – this way if I feel uncomfortable I can change, like having a safety net to catch me if I feel unstable about what I am wearing. So I ask myself how can someone roar like a lion and then when it comes to something small and simple, go and hide like a timid mouse - and how do I stand like the lion again?
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  2. #2
    Silver Member Annaliese's Avatar
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    You push the line, til you are satisfied and happy. It looks like your work, is ok with what you ware, just be your self.

  3. #3
    Careful I bite <3
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    It's awesome that you can wear that in male mode. For me I keep it mostly separate, especially with obvious things.

    Now I do have a similar combo that I LOVE and am waiting to try out one day. I think it's even the same satin blouse.

  4. #4
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
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    Firstly, Klaire - sorry for missing this a while back. It is possible to miss interesting posts even when one ends up reading 95% of all posts and, well - let's just say they're not all as interesting as yours...

    Secondly, your Monday 'second-chance' deadline has passed and it would be really good to know whether you did or you didn't wear the vest and blouse..?

    Finally, some of your perspectives intrigue me - partly because they are a contrast to some of my own, but partly again because most of us do all fit under this large and rather unwieldy CD umbrella, and yet sometimes we do exhibit approaches that seem as if we might be doing different things that just slightly overlap. Let me expand...

    You are one of our proportionately few members that will wear female attire but make no attempt to clearly present as female - and you seem to have done this for a time, you are out to your family AND your workplace - so I salute your courage for one. You clearly have made something of a study of female clothes and are an enthusiast and you feel comfortable enough to wear them to work - but presumably no makeup, wig... how about jewellery..?
    Now while you can't understand why those of us who do go that final step to facially amend ourselves above the neck, I am at a loss to understand why you would go so far down that road, even to the point of using silicone forms (presumably to complement the tailoring of female blouses) when the imagery stops at your shoulders... Please understand that I am not saying this is better or worse than any other CD variant - goodness, we'd just be debating degrees of weirdness really, to most muggles - but I'm curious if you are able to explain what makes you feel comfortable or right presenting in this way, with a view to perhaps understanding why any of us do what we do.

    Another question for me would be whether you consider yourself to suffer gender dysphoria and whether you consider yourself to be transgender or pangender? I fit many of the same background criteria that you do (married, kids, male-identifying, hetero, dressing for decades AND we're both Brits...) but significantly I am closeted AND I do want to present en femme. Let me say I can't adequately explain this either, but I do consider myself to be TG and to suffer a mild GD - that is why I am driven to do this stigmatised thing in private - for now, anyway.. I do readily admit to a desire and need to go somewhat public, but never in the way that you do, Klaire.

    So that's my weekend curiosity... and while I think the satin vest and sheer shirt is gorgeous, I'd say that was way way too dressy for work unless you're writing copy or doing artwork for Vogue or something equally arty or fashion-centric... but that's just me and my work background which was always more in the IBM dark blue suit and wingtips mode...

    I think it's great that you dress the way you feel Klaire - I know there are quite a few others that do here and i applaud you all... but I am still curious..

    Katey x
    "Put some lipstick on - Perfume your neck and slip your high heels on
    Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear"
    Stefani Germanotta

  5. #5
    Senior Member KellyJameson's Avatar
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    This thread interests me because I sense you are doing something different from most crossdressers.

    Your words leave me with the feeling that you are trying to hold onto two things at the same time but each works to overshadow the other.

    You have made it clear that your are not transsexual and nothing about you gives me that impression. Would it be correct to say that you use breast enhancers not to portray yourself as a woman (identity) but more like a mannequin shaped as such to compliment the clothes ?

    You change the physical shape of your body purely because of the clothes?

    "like having a safety net to catch me if I feel unstable about what I am wearing"

    This sounds like threats to your identity. Could this be one of the two things you are trying to hold onto?

    It interests me that we have similar taste in clothes. I own a version of that top and cami.

    I like seeing men rebel against social norms (controls) . I think it is good for them to do so.
    The Psychology of Conformity
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARGczzoPASo

    Mars brain, Venus brain: John Gray at TEDxBend
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuM7ZS7nodk

  6. #6
    Happy in life KlaireLarnia's Avatar
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    Katey; thank you for the post and questions - as well as the chance to answer them.

    I know I am somewhat at odds with the mainline thinking here and perhaps in general with the CD world, and because of that I have had to find a path that is somewhat unique to me, which can fit in with my desires and needs. I have tried the wig, the makeup etc in the past and that is not me. It never felt right or sat with me as I thought it would so it was effectively binned and dumped in favour of what I do now.
    My look is based on “female versions of male items” and I keep that in mind 95% of the time when choosing what I wear, because if you do then it is very easy to wear female clothes in public in my opinion. There are times when I ignore that to a degree (carrying a handbag for example) but there are also times when I adhere to it very strictly. This is how I have pushed the look into work and public life.

    At work 4 days a week my dress code is “smart casual” which means collared shirt and dress trousers, smart shoes. Fridays are “casual”. Over a series of about 3 months I started to wear female trousers at work, then pushed into collared shirts/blouses (often with jumpers over them as it was heading into winter), low heeled smart shoes/ankle boots came next as the trousers helped disguise them. The jumpers then changed to female versions (often black v-neck or high scoop-neck) and then cardigans. By the time the warmer months had come I had the confidence to remove the jumper and show the shirt/blouse off because people had partially seen them already. Once I had one on show over the space of about a year I was able to wear almost anything I wanted. At no point has work said anything or asked me to change my clothes, I think because I have done it slowly and do not overstep normal boundaries they accept what I do so their tolerance has been a major part of this.

    At work (which is an office based environment) now I am able to wear female collared blouses and shirts comfortably, ankle boots with 1-2inch heels (I have ankle boots with a 4inch heel but I am only about 50% comfortable with these at work). I am still trying things as with the sheer shirt (which to answer the question I have worn again with the top this time on show and the jury of my mind is still out on it to be honest). That said I keep 2 male shirts because if we have visitors or potential clients and we are told to dress smart (with ties) then I wear a male shirt for that as it gives a better impression should they wish to walk around the offices.
    In respect of what else I wear, I got my ears pierced just under 2 years ago (about 2 months after starting the job) and wear earrings daily. These are studs or small hoops/part hoops – nothing dangly or overly feminine. The smart watches (bar one which was a gift from my wife) that I have are all female “oversized” watches which are more male sized , and I use a selection of male/female bracelets depending on what I feel works on a given day. Necklaces are worn when I feel like them but they are simple subdued pendants but do go on show. I do not wear facial make up, but have worn nail polish one a number of occasions but often with pastel colours – these are fine but bolder colours I am not happy with yet.

    Regarding the silicone forms, KellyJameson is more on the button with this - the reason these can be used is because I aim to present as male in female clothes/with a feminine overtones and also to compliment certain clothes which look better if shaped right on the body. There are tops I wear where forms add to the hint of femininity that I look for. At work the forms are 99% not worn unless my clothes disguise them well. So a slightly more figure hugging top would not be something I would wear them under. There are times when I have gotten up put them on and by the time I get to work thought “this is too much” and removed them in the toilet as I walk in. This is as much as about keeping my colleagues comfortable as it is about keeping me happy. Whilst I am sure no one will say anything I do have to be aware of what they may feel or say behind my back. One thing I would add to confuse this specific bit is that if I could do something to give myself B/C cup natural breasts tomorrow I would. I do not want breast enhancements as they do not look right to me but I love the idea of having real breasts and that perhaps is the female side of me talking and also explains why I wear forms at times better.

    My gender is not in question in my head. I am male all the way through. I spent a lot of time in Second Life some years ago and in there I explored myself and the female side of my persona. It would take too much to explain here how that was done but let’s say I did enough to be confident in my sexuality and gender because of this and real life. I have at no point looked at myself and considered my body to be in anyway wrong other than being fat

    I hope that makes sense as I wrote it in about an hour, I may do another post to give people a better idea what I wear formally and casually as it may help people understand how I balance the female clothes with my male side in a way that I am happy with - and also how that balance changes between work, home and when I am out with my family as each has difference constraints placed on me

  7. #7
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    I have a black voile blouse that is partially see through so I wear a black cami underneath, the only difference is it has a high collar !
    As Katey says you know what looks right for the occasion and maybe you felt it was too dressy at the time you were wearing it !
    I've seen my wife tone something down with a sweater so you probably did the right thing ! Better to be comfortable with something than not !!

  8. #8
    Member Geneva Lake's Avatar
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    Hi Klaire. Great stories. I do just what you do. My biggest focus through the day are the shoes I choose to wear. I wear exclusively ballet flats, women's boots and stylish women's shoes. I know I am forever pushing the line on style, but it's me. I want to wear what I want. And I do not do the wig thing or try to pass as female. My hair and nails are long, but it's all about the fashion. Let's keep being who we are!!

    Gen

  9. #9
    Happy in life KlaireLarnia's Avatar
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    A jumper (sweater) can assist in many ways and it is something I learnt early on as I did this. Using [female] jumpers can have two effects. The first is the toning down element, it disguises what is worn underneath it and makes it less in your face. The second is the exact opposite at the same time in that it can focus the vision and attention to what is on show and if that item is "wrong" the feeling can be much worse - as I am all to well aware of.

    Today I wore a top at work for the first time (first image) and because I was only 50/50 on how I would feel I left a blouse I am comfortable with in the car as a precaution so I could change at lunchtime after my daily walk, As it happened I did not need too as I was fine with things but I knew the cardigan I was wearing risked showing too much off and hence my back up plan. Tomorrow because I am training some staff on some bits I am wearing a more subdued linen shirt (second image) which, whilst being new, will offer no risks to me so I can concentrate on what I have to do.
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