Marraiage and transition

[AshleyCM17]

Lately I've had question after question on my mind. I am currently married to a woman I love, we have a young child who I cannot imagine being without. My question is how many people here (m2f or f2m and anywhere in between) were married when they came out or started to acknowledge themselves and seek help. More specifically, did your partner have any idea before you officially came out trans, what was their reaction? My wife knows that I crossdress, she has for a long time, well before we got engaged. I knew I loved her, and didn't think it was fair to keep that a secret, she had a right to know. She has never been overly happy about it, prefers if I don't around her often. I think her concern is more of embarrassment publicly. She is otherwise very LGBTQ friendly outside our home. Recently I've been doing a lot of soul searching, and am looking to schedule my first visit with a counselor. I am wondering if anyone had stories of a changing dynamic with a spouse, on any level, including fully transitioning? My wife knows some, but im' terrified of what may be ahead.
I should add my birth father is now a transwoman, post GCS/SRS. She did it in a way that irked a lot of her side of the family (rightfully so). My parents divorced when I was young, she began transition about 13 years ago. My wife knew the whole story, and upon hearing my situation has occasionally checked in "you're not gonna do what your dad did right?" And "I kinda like your penis, and the man you are" my mom found. Note I wrote when I was very young (8-9) telling her I was a girl. I think she found it and confronted me when I was about 13-14 years old. She was super supportive of everything i'd done, and seemed more concerned about my well being than anything else. I clammed up and denied and freaked out and tried to pretend it didn't happen.

[Kimberly Kael]

It took a few years to open up about cross-dressing but my wife had already met "Kimberly" before we were married. I didn't really understand my need to embrace my feminine identity and had never met anyone else in the transgender spectrum, but of course gender dysphoria kept nagging and upping the ante on what it took to feel whole. I found a few books on the subject and found an online community to share my feelings and experiences on, and it rapidly became clear that I didn't really fit the crossdresser mold. I like the clothes, but that was only a part of the picture. When I took my next job I checked their diversity track record, so by then it was obvious I was starting to question where I was headed. Unfortunately, I had a really hard time talking about it with my wife.

I stumbled trying to communicate about it, made mistakes and put a strain on our relationship as a result. Eventually I figured out how to open up more and we were talking about it regularly, if not comfortably, by the time I went to my first transgender event. A week at Diva Las Vegas made it clear I couldn't put the genie back in the bottle. She joined me the next year for the week, and when we returned home she asked when I was planning to go full time. I did what I could to take it slow. I spent a year with a therapist, followed by a carefully planned social transition process with friends, family, and at work over the following year.

So yes, I was already married when it became obvious that I was going to transition. It led to some very difficult times for us as a couple, and especially for her. She clearly mourned the loss of her husband (and I can assert that it's downright odd being mourned while still present!) I had grown up feeling like at least some kind of connection with the LGBT community, but while she's very socially liberal she is also a heterosexual woman at heart. So diving head first into a life of being read as a lesbian wasn't exactly at the top of her to-do list. She thought she'd never be comfortable referring to me as her wife, but four years later she seems to feel it's the clearest way to describe our relationship. It's complicated, but we're very much in love, and still very much together.

[Sandra]

I had my thoughts about Nigella being TS little things and reading stuff on here, but when I put it to her she denied it but eventually she accepted who she was and is now post op and we are still together (27 years) From what you have said about your wife "not being overly happy about it, and prefers if I don't around her often" I think you have a lot of talking to do and that includes telling her what your plans are. It is no good just going off and doing things like seeing a counselor, and then telling her after the event, keep her in the loop. If you are TS the you will have to do what is right for you because it is not going to go away and unfortunately that may mean that you have to do it on your own without your wife next to you.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Each situation is TOTALLY different

It's obviously going to be a big deal and if you end up in a situation where you transition, then you have to consider that you are truly living as a woman and your wife is going to have to deal with being married to a woman

It's hugely important for you to gain the internal confidence that whatever you are feeling is real to you and that you have the right to live your best quality of life... that confidence is totally inside you and will give you the strength to deal with your situation with a clear mind.

I know some very happy couples where there was a transition, but more often than not, the couple will break up... in that case, the next best thing is to stay friendly and co parent your kids..

One thing that will also matter is your own sexuality...you are going to have to be honest about it to live your best quality of life and some transsexuals have experienced a realization that they had been faking their sexuality (to themselves) as they cross the gender line and start to experience living as a woman and having the proper hormones in their bodies

You are young and have time to figure this out!!

[Krisi]

I suspect it's a rare woman who would be comfortable with her husband transitioning. For one thing, there's the thought that she would then be considered a lesbian. On the other side, would the husband woh transitioned be satisfied being with another woman and not experiencing using her new parts as they were meant to be used?

It would take a really special relationship to survive something like this.

You have to decide if it's worth the risk.

[chelseababy]

Did you post this same question on reddit? Sounds familiar to a post I replied to the other day!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

If your thought process is "is it worth the risk", then i'd add my 2 cents that its not...

the reason I say this is because transition is very consuming...there are lots of roadblocks and issues...money not the least of them...
it feels selfish because in a way it is, and its very disruptive to people around you... not everyone suffers through it and perhaps you would have that luck, but in a context of risk its a huge risk..

you don't want to face each roadblock with a "should I or shouldn't I" kind of mentality... you want to transition and make it happen for yourself and do your best to help others cope with it...

[KellyJameson]

It is diffilcult to speak to how a partner or spouse may react and what can be done about it because each relationship is unique making it difficult to predict how they will react.

Fearing what will be lost is a natural concern of transitioning but in the end what you may lose will not stop you from transitioning unless you can live with the pain of not transitioning without harming yourself or others.

Some manage to live on a gender spectrum and find life satisfaction this way.

There is an intensity that goes with gender dysphoria and this intensity is variable from person to person and across life.

I think those that believed deeply as children they were the opposite gender of what everyone was telling them and wished to be the other when those in authority convinced them otherwise will experience the most conflict later in life and are the least likely to be able to live on a gender spectrum.

The deeper the seed has been planted the more it will fight to bloom and the greater the destructive forces when it cannot. It trashes your life.

Try to discover and know your intensity. The only way I know to do this is to present and live as a woman as much as possible because it is inside this living that you find and experience yourself.

Even though the rules have been relaxed I'm a big proponent of Real Life Experience for those unsure of who they are as to where they fall on the gender spectrum.

It may be potentially feasible to be a woman (gender) who can live with a male body and a man (gender) who can life female bodied.

All men and women are a mix of both genders anyway but with transsexuals you are so far removed from your body that this becomes impossible.

In my opinion you want to discover how far removed you are from your body as gender and use this as a guide in deciding what you have to lose to be able to live with yourself and everyone else.

This is an extremly difficult and painful process but you either pay now or you pay later.

The question is what is more costly to the soul, now or later.

[Cheryl Ann Owens]

One of my best friends transitioned and stayed married. I had known her since the 1990's when we first became friends and CD'd together even going out to a few support meetings. She told me that she and her future wife went to group counseling to explore her feelings about her true gender. She and her wife eventually married. They had no children. But they also enjoyed plenty of other aspects of life.

To shorten the story, they eventually moved around the country both having great careers. But about 8 years ago my friend finally got to a suicidal point and luckily a friendly police officer talked her out of blowing her brains out. That was her turning point. She recently celebrated her 7th birthday as a woman and gave up an old career. Her wife stayed with her throughout. Both are in their 50's.

What I found is that (my perception) is that sexuality and gender identity and playing roles are not on their list of priority. Instead they enjoy the jobs they have, making a home for themselves, travelling and hiking, and just enjoying many facets of life that don't focus on sexual roles. They have also discovered a great sexual relationship.

I talked to my old friend a couple weeks ago and she relates many stories about what it's like to be a woman, and a lot of the stories have me LMAO! Bottom line is that she and her wife are extremely happy, and happier than they've ever been. They lost touch with some family who wrote them off and don't care. Their happiness comes first without pleasing other's expectations. They have also gained greater love with other family members.

In the end, I am ever so happy that my girl friend and her wife have found pure joy in their lives.

Cheryl

[celeste26]

I told my fiance prior to proposal that I crossdressed. I have never hid that fact from her. She tells me that she too would be considered a lesbian if/when I transition. but there must have been something there to begin with that may not have even been conscious on her part. Over the last three years I have increasingly been en femme, she goes around town with me all over and people see us together and she simply has never considered that they just may come to that conclusion without ever sharing it with us.

So admitting that she is not the pure undiluted cisgendered woman she thinks she is may eventually hit her. Somehow it is very possible that she may never come to that awareness. She knows I love her and that I am really the very same person she married nearly 30 years ago.

[MatildaJ.]

Celeste, I'm confused about how you describe your wife. You seem to be saying that unconsciously she may be a lesbian, and that she may eventually realize she isn't a "pure undiluted cisgendered woman" (is that another way of saying you think she's a lesbian, or are you saying you think she might be partly male?)

As a GG married to someone with TG issues, I don't understand your approach. Why not let your wife be in charge of her own identity? If you transition, she can still think of herself as straight, or mostly straight, or bisexual, or lesbian if that's how she sees herself.

But your transition doesn't determine her identity. It may shape how other people on the street see her, but it shouldn't shape how you see her or how she sees herself. You should let her decide for herself how to identity, and you should respect that.

[ReineD]

I suspect it's a rare woman who would be comfortable with her husband transitioning. For one thing, there's the thought that she would then be considered a lesbian.

The social stigma about being homosexual is not what it was twenty years ago and I think it is even easier for women than it is with men, when it comes to acceptance from the members of one's own sex. I don't think that women in general fear or feel threatened by lesbians as much as men (in general) fear homosexuals.

Heterosexual women, if they want to maintain a romantic relationship, don't want to stay married to birth males who transition simply because they AREN'T lesbian and they're not attracted to women. The question of sexual preference has much more weight than fearing what others might think. Also Jess has a great point: a spouse who transitions has no effect on the other spouse's sexual identity.

To Ashley, I fully agree with Sandra. You should keep your wife in the loop if you're going to see a gender counselor. Your wife deserves to know, even if at this point you're only questioning your gender and you're not sure what the outcome might be.

[PretzelGirl]

The best thing I can say is that being up front and caring is the best path. Then the chips will fall where they may. Any marriage is the combination of two individuals which makes every pairing move forward in a different way. But the base way to handle things doesn't change. You have to be loving and honest.

I have to say that I am a fortunate one. When I started exploring my "crossdressing" deeper, I told my wife and we agreed upon boundaries. We revisited those often and they expanded. A few years back, she wanted a flowery tattoo on her back and she embedded a transgender symbol in it and then showed it to me. She started telling me that she was ready for me to take hormones and have surgery and I hadn't even been tossing the idea at that point. Just a little out in front of me.

During my transition, she has been fantastic. When I changed my name and posted my first pictures, she shared one to her page so she could announce her wife. We took her car to get brakes done and I didn't know it, but she asked the guy to scrap off the man stick figure on her back window (yes she did that). When I paid for the service, she threw a small package on the counter. I didn't know this then, but when I went outside, I found her putting another women stick figure on next to the existing one. I do hope she doesn't experience harassment because of that.

I do realize this level of acceptance is far from the norm, so it isn't something that can be expected. But I would say you don't achieve anything that you don't set a goal for first. So I would encourage anyone to be forward with your spouse and reach for the stars. If they aren't to be had, then try to keep that friend that meant so much to you that you shared your life together. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing.

[AshleyCM17]

Thank you everyone for all of your thoughts and stories. While I have been a member on this site for a while, only lately have I been lurking in this forum. I know that things in my life are going to come to a head, and likely to be more sooner than later. I am amazed at some of the support some of you seem to have received, I know the process brings problems for everyone, in varying degrees. Reading all of these responses, something became clear, at least to me. I NEED to speak with my wife, more open and honest than ever before. I also feel this needs to be done before I take any other steps alone, outside of our home. I am absolutely at a loss for how to approach the subject with my wife. I keep telling myself to find the right time, the right explanation. I'm not sure there is a right time, perhaps only a "well, now is as good as any". Ugh, seems like all that is left is for me to straighten up and do what should be done... I am so nervous/anxious/excited about what may come of all this, even I don't know myself.

One more time, a sincere thank you for the stories and advice, I appreciated everyone's "2 cents"

[Donna Joanne]

As a GG married to someone with TG issues, I don't understand your approach. Why not let your wife be in charge of her own identity? If you transition, she can still think of herself as straight, or mostly straight, or bisexual, or lesbian if that's how she sees herself.

But your transition doesn't determine her identity. It may shape how other people on the street see her, but it shouldn't shape how you see her or how she sees herself. You should let her decide for herself how to identity, and you should respect that.

As so many have stated so well previously, no two cases even if they appear similar really are. My first marriage of 7 years failed because I could never be the "man she wanted" (her words). So for my second marriage of 11 years my wife was bisexual, and it that case I couldn't be "the woman she needed" (again her words). This marriage, my final,
I really feel we love each other for who we are. She has had her issues and problems, and we are dealing with my transition "one day at a time". My two children from my first marriage (this year is our 15th anniversary) are grown and out of the house, as are her two. We have a 12 year old daughter together and it is her we are most concerned over my transition affecting. We believe she personally can handle it, but not sure how we would be able to deal with the attitudes of her fellow students and our neighbors in the small rural community we live in.

[I Am Paula]

My nineteenth anniversary is fast approaching. Since practically day one my wife has known about my gender issues, but way back I identified as a crossdresser, and she thought of it as my hobby. She watched me progress from weekend drag at parties, to full time, without too much comment.
When I announced that I needed to transition, my marriage took on a whole new dynamic. She was (grudgingly) OK with it, but made it clear she might be in a same sex marriage, but was not lesbian. We are best friends, and now very good room mates. We do everything together, then retire to separate rooms. She has, for example, never seen my boobs, or even asked about my BA, and does not come into the bathroom if I may be naked. She just respects that we are two women, and deserve some privacy.
Is our marriage over, or just a sham? No, we have just adapted it to fit a whole new life.

[Suzanne F]

I have been reading this thread and crying. I am married to a supportive wife. Our ups and downs have been well documented during my 2 year journey from first coming out to my wife. She helped me fully dress the first time and it has progressed from there. We have accepted that I am TS and I am out as Suzanne everywhere except work.

It has not been easy. My wife has had a rough time keeping up with me as I finally quit suppressing my issue. She couldn't imagine our life being good with me being a woman. What would everyone think of her? What would our son and my daughters think? How would our friends react? It was too overwhelming to process for her.

Today we have found peace for the moment. I have came out to my children. Their unwavering acceptance helped my wife. They gave her hope that it could be ok. I am out now to all my friends and family. This also showed her my commitment. We have learned to take it one day at a time. I promised to wait until next May to begin HRT. That gave her time to catch her breathe.

I am married to a phenomenal woman. We had a strong bond going into this. There are no guarantees. However, I am finally authentic in my relationship with her. If she stays I know she loves all of me. Isn't that what I always feared? If you really knew me you would not love me!

Suzanne

[MatildaJ.]

I NEED to speak with my wife, more open and honest than ever before. I also feel this needs to be done before I take any other steps alone, outside of our home. I am absolutely at a loss for how to approach the subject with my wife. I keep telling myself to find the right time, the right explanation. I'm not sure there is a right time, perhaps only a "well, now is as good as any".

My advice would be to start by letting her know that you need to have a serious conversation with her, and asking her to help you find a good time for that conversation. Even that statement ("We need to have a serious conversation") should be done at a time when you could take an hour to talk right then, rather than when one of you is rushing out the door. Some people will want to talk right away; others will want some time to prepare emotionally (not hungry, not tired, not tipsy, etc.) Once the two of you have picked a time for the conversation, that will help you focus on deciding what exactly to say when she says, "so what is this conversation about?"

[Kimberly Kael]

The social stigma about being homosexual is not what it was twenty years ago and I think it is even easier for women than it is with men, when it comes to acceptance from the members of one's own sex. I don't think that women in general fear or feel threatened by lesbians as much as men (in general) fear homosexuals.

While you're quite right, it may not make as much difference as you'd hope to most women. For starters, I think it's fair to say none of us are married to women who grew up in the past decade, so they have all experienced the tremendous negativity aimed at the LGBT community. What's more, that's still a common enough mindset that it's a viable position to take as a politician. So being anti-gay isn't exactly a fringe mindset. Heck, there are people on this site who blithely throw around some of the vicious rhetoric aimed at the gay community.

Just as importantly, fear of physical violence isn't the only reason to feel ostracized. My wife finds it sad that when dining out nobody looks at two women together as that cute romantic couple who should be seated at the special table. Male / female couples never get asked if they're brother and sister. When she showed up at a health club associated with my employer and gave my name as the employee they frowned at her and said "no, not your name, your husband's." And so on, and so forth. It's frustrating in thousands of little ways, and yes this represents huge social progress compared to how lesbians might have been treated a decade or two back – but it's still a far cry from the privilege she used to experience as a straight woman.

[DebbieL]

My current wife knew before we got married that I was a cross-dresser and transsexual. I didn't think transition was possible or practical at my age for a variety of reasons, and had pretty much accepted that I would have to limit it to occasional outings.

After I had a stroke, I became more aware that I wanted to enjoy whatever time I have left. I started playing on second life, with a female avitar, and found that I really liked the idea of being a girl. Even most women had no idea I wasn't another woman. I had been working in Saudi Arabia and grew a beard, and then worked in Sweden (sex change capital at one time) and decided to wax off the beard instead of shaving it off. I couldn't quite bring myself to do the mustache and chin.

Later, I started losing weight so I could go out more and wear nicer clothes. My health started improving significantly, and I started living a healthier life-style. I started to see a gender therapist and we started discussing transition. Lee came up to me and whispered in my hear "I'm not OK with this" and I went into a tail-spin. It eventually got to the point where my doctor told me to go to the local psych unit or she would call the cops and have them take me. When my wife came to pick me up, she realized we needed to talk. I got a new therapist, went to more AA and NA meetings, and started to improve again.

After my dad died, I decided I wanted to transition, and started the process of 120 hour/week RLE and Lee and I started going out together more often. After a few months, my therapist could see that I was happier as Debbie. She asked me to bring my wife to our sessions together. Lee started to voice her concerns to the therapist while I listened. There weren't any surprises, I'd shared Lee's concerns with my therapist before, so I just listened and let her vent and say what she needed to say. Then the three of us began to address those concerns.

"I'm not a lesbian" - the therapist asked Lee to describe our sexual activities, then asked if she enjoyed them. Then she asked "have you had such experiences with other men?". Lee had been a sergeant in the Army, a fair amount of experience, but she shook her head "no, most guys would freak at the thought of most of those things". Then it hit her "Oh my God, honey, you turned me into a lesbian. She admitted that she was attracted to some women and that's why she found me attractive. She also loved my feminine personality, patient, calm, nurturing, forgiving, caring, loving.

"What while my father and brother think?". Lee's father was almost 80 years old, and though not a right wing conservative, he had heard about Debbie but thought it was a bit strange. He liked Rex, but wasn't sure if he wanted to meet Debbie or not. We ended up going to a concert together with me going as Debbie. We got along great and he actually liked Debbie. Eventually, he said "We can try it for Thanksgiving then we'll see about Christmas". Everybody liked Debbie so much better than Rex that Debbie was invited to Christmas and all of the presents were for Debbie. It was the best Christmas I've ever had. Even her brother, who was a conservative Republican who got most of his information from Fox news had to admit that he liked Debbie better than Rex. Debbie was honest, authentic, happy, wanted to be with people, listened, and didn't "motor mouth" or "factoid dump". These were mechanisms I had developed to avoid talking about real feelings and avoid real interactions with people.

"What will my friends think". Lee was very active in her church. One of her big fears was that if Debbie came to church, we might be rejected, she might even have to leave the church. I told her that if Debbie wasn't welcome at that church, she could stay there and I would find one where she was welcome. Lee spent about a month telling some of her friends, and one woman's daughters saw Debbie shopping at Bed, Bath, and Beyond and told their mother they couldn't believe how pretty I was. By the time we where at Christmas services, I was out of the choir loft passing the peace and a dozen women said "I can't wait to meet Debbie". When Debbie showed up the following week - one of the slowest Sundays of the year, I was astonished by the welcome I got. I wasn't singing in the choir that week, and during the service several people were happy to finally meet me, and were quite generous with their compliments, which I gracefully returned. A week or two later, one of the older men, a major contributor, asked me why I did it. I showed him my fingers and had him hold up his fingers. His ring finger was longer while mine was shorter. I pointed out that I had been a girl since I was born, I just got stock with a few "extra parts". Not only were my fingers more like a girl's, so was my brain. It took about 5 minutes to explain, and he had a few more questions, but then he said "would you be willing to explain this to some of the other men in the congregation?" I smiled and said I'd be happy to answer any questions anyone had, individually or to a group. He explained it in one of the men's groups and soon all of the men I had been worried about were very accepting.

"What about your job?". I had chosen my employer largely because they had a strong diversity policy and an active LGBT community. In fact, they were one of the first companies to actively support transsexuals in transition. I found out later that a manager had fired a transsexual who had transitioned and that woman went on to win 75 patents - for a competitor, all of which IBM had to license. When I told my manager I was in transition and had started hormones, he made sure my very next assignment was as female. I had to work for 3 months as "Rexxy" until I could get the paperwork for the legal name change and gender change. Then my next assignment was as Debbie. Workers who knew Rex have observed that Debbie is a better listener, more willing to accept the ideas of others, and more willing to make changes and be supportive. I don't see challenges to my intellect as a threat to masculinity I never wanted. I see it as the chance to use feminine strategies that were considered signs of weakness when I used them as a man. As a result, I'm a better leader, a better organizer, and usually a better worker.

Lee's father decided to take the family on a guided tour with first class accommodations, and told Lee "I've booked a spot for Debbie too, make sure she comes, we want her on the trip with us!". The whole family had decided they wanted Debbie along. We had a great time, and one a few occasions, pop even even booked me at his table without Lee. At one such dinner, he started flirting with the waitress, and she flirted back. He was having so much fun he laughed and said "Would you marry me?". She held out her hand did a little curtsy and said "yes!". I laughed like a girl, and the waitress looked over to me and said "Do your think your daughter will mind?" I had so much fun - it was the highlight of my trip, and his.

The one thing that has been interesting is that men are so much nicer to me now, and I've begun to notice than some of them are cute. There are times when I will even point out a cute one to my wife and say "cute eyes" and grin. She knows I'm crazy about her and she is more than woman enough (and man enough) for me.

Our love grows deeper every day. I'm so much happier, and she can see that. But she can also see that I'm more affectionate. I like to cuddle more, and we like to spend more time together, shopping, dining, watching movies, or even just watching TV shows together. I didn't know I could love anyone like I love Lee, and I know I've never loved anyone like that before. I think the biggest part of it is that I know she loves ME, not the clown character I created to survive as a male in a world where I couldn't pass as male. I can still be goofy, weird, silly, and fun, but there is so much more love and kindness in it now.

Perhaps the most wonderful thing of all, is that I can sit and ride with her in the car as she drives us to church, and just enjoy being with her. I don't have to talk, and she often reaches over and squeezes my hand and says "I love you Debbie".

[mbmeen12]

Great questions Ms Ashley to answer:

1. My question is how many people here (m2f or f2m and anywhere in between) were married when they came out or started to acknowledge themselves and seek help?

Ans: My GID blossomed and came to head during my current marriage and I am seeking treatment i.e. counseling /reconciling my true being.


2. More specifically, did your partner have any idea before you officially came out trans, what was their reaction?

Ans: No she did not know and rightly so, I didnt fully understand. Since I am bisexual she says "be safe".


3. Upon reading your post.....Id seen this statement.....

My wife knew the whole story, and upon hearing my situation has occasionally checked in "you're not gonna do what your dad did right?" And "I kinda like your penis, and the man you are" my mom found.

Ans: My wife enjoys making love to her husband, so if /when I do eventually start HRT which is in my 5 year plan, I am not going to chemically hmmm tuff to say, "chemical castration" but more to re-wire and put the brain in sync to a woman's making me more womanly synergistic.