What Ever Happened..........

[Joni T]

to a little honesty?
I don't know how many times I 've seen pictures here of someone wanting an opinion from the multitude about how they look. It seems to always be answered some thing along the lines of You look great when, in fact, they couldn' t pass at midnight in front of a blind man. And another thing that bugs me--the use of the word '' Hon''. I guess it's meant as a term of endearment but it's waaaaay over-used here. It's a personal pronoun, PERSONAL pronoun, as in you actually know the person. How about just saying, (name), you look (what ever).
And NO, I'm not having good a bad day. Just looking for sincerity here.
Jon(i)

[Jaylyn]

It's not all about passing Joni. Some of us couldn't pass if we were made over by professionals. Me for one. Most on here really are being polite and appeasing the other folks that dare to show pictures. For some that is a very big step. If I see a picture and they tell me they want the truth negative or positive then I usually tell them what I think. Actually how can you say who is sincere and who is not being sincere? Not just going after you but we all have different tastes and all have different ways of giving encouragement to others. I personally don't get offended but I personally also have a different perspective of what I might think is great than you might.

[Jenniferathome]

This very topic and lack of criticism pops up from time to time. I have started such a thread in the past. What is clear is that there are a few camps: 1) if you can't say something nice, say nothing and 2) this is a support forum and therefore one must be supportive and 3) tell it like it is

i am in camp 3 and generally lonely here. I think a frank criticism is only helpful and if someone asks, eu get honestly. Now, if I cannot offer advice that could be used, I'll write nothing. Too many "school girl" outfits with a "what do you think?" I got nothing for that other than don't wear it, so I don't critique that picture.

i do not think blowing sunshine up our collective skirts is helpful to any cross dresser. In fact, it puts one at great risk of embarrassment should they decide to venture out thinking they got it going on.

[Teresa]

Joni,
It's very hard for some who have attempted dressing and makeup for the first time and they're also in the closet ! Finances or opportunity can be factors, not many of us can walk away from CDing and yet as men we dread looking like a a guy in a dress ! All we can do is try and give constructive replies and if we think we've been too harsh maybe soften it with a " Hon" !
Some of us have been through years of suffering and the giving and receiving of the odd kind word is'nt going hurt us !

[NicoleScott]

....some thing along the lines of You look great when, in fact, they couldn' t pass at midnight in front of a blind man....

It's subjective. It's possible that others think someone looks great when you don't. And there's a difference between looking good and passing. I wouldn't think conservative CDers would be complimentary when asked for an opinion by a CDer wearing monster fake eyelashes, heavy makeup, dark red lipstick, miniskirt and killer high heels. I love that look, even if it's obviously not passable.

[Rachael Leigh]

Joni I agree that many here are looking and hopping they look good when posting a picture, I know I do and wow do I see flaws in my own presentation.
I feel I could pass and in fact have at least blended when I went out, I do agree we must be careful how much we encourage one who clearly doesnt pass in that if they decide just from what is said here they go out only to get ridiculed harshly. Some here my be able to handle that but some not, so yes we should be careful at times in our praise. Hope you have a great one hon
PS hon is a very southern term used for any kind of endearment

[Katey888]

Joni - I can see your point, but Jaylyn and Nicole have both raised really good points as wel - it is subjective, and I believe varies considerably across our locations too. What looks good enough to some in one locale may be perceived as completely odd attire somewhere else. One thing I've learned here is that there are no universal rules, however much some folk may delight in insisting there are... With respect to critique and honesty you have to be a bit wary of this rule:

• Ridiculing members/non-members, or the manner in which they express themselves. This includes any complaint about the way females, males, transgendered, or any other cross-section of the membership dress, the way they express themselves (such as spelling and language skills, and any mention of religious beliefs, political preferences and affiliations, sexual preference, etc.)

Please note that I'm not making a comment in defense of or against this rule, but it does at least cut down on anything scathingly unhelpful. I think it is possible to offer some some critique within this envelope, but Jennifer's advice is also sound - if in doubt, say nowt!

I'm not enamoured of 'Hon' or even 'Sweetie' necessarily, but I'm happy to accept that they are vernacular terms for many places here and I think we should accept them in good part if someone's well-meaning and feels that endeared about any of us, well - call me anything, dahlinks... I'm happy that someone's still talking to me with a hint of platonic affection here...

Katey x

[Lorileah]

Calm down sweetie, no need to get all upset.

OK this is a support forum but constructive criticism can sometimes be good. Being nasty and mean like saying

couldn' t pass at midnight in front of a blind man

is rude. Many here don't want to pass or have given up trying. That doesn't mean they can't show off the new wig or dress or whatever. Me? I am always upbeat and positive (yeah right). But saying you look good or that is a nice dress or good color never hurts anyone. If you can add something that they can do, like smile more, wear a darker shade of foundation or the like, it hurts no one. OK Sugar?

[Jorja]

(As the gum cracks and pops and in Fran Dresher-esk voice) Sorry Hon, I don't know what you are talking about. Everyone here tells the truth each and every time (crack pop). You would do well to worry about your own presentation. Ya know what I mean? (crack pop).

[sometimes_miss]

Joni, you won't always find honesty here. This is a safe haven, where men get to pretend they're girly girls. The use of hon, honey, sisters, girls, ladies, women, womyn, gurls, and all the female pronouns available is done to increase the delusion, and that sometimes makes it very difficult to determine who's who, male or female. That's what happens when you get into transgender sites. Oh, and BTW; GG's are the worst offenders at telling each other that they look great. I work primarily with women, REAL women, and it's not uncommon for the whole bunch to tell someone that they look great, and then laugh at her behind her back. One such woman got her hairstyled to the point she looks like a cockatoo; you know, with the woody woodpecker hair up and pointed toward the front. Of course, no one wanted to hurt her feelings, knowing that she was stuck with that haircut until it grew out. So they all told her she looked great. That was almost 10 years ago. The poor woman still has her hair done like that. I made the foolish attempt at telling her the truth, all I got was an angry response that I was just a man, what did I know, and that everyone else said that she looked great. So much for the truth. So for those who want to be more oh, feminine, apparently little lies are often the way to go.

[Isabella Ross]

My thoughts have been expressed better by others here, but for what it's worth, I think a little honesty can be a good thing providing it's offered in a constructive rather than ridiculing or condescending manner. In other words, don't be blunt; offer a suggestion for improvement if you don't like the look. And it's not always about passing; it's about doing the best you can. Considerate, constructive criticism should give an incentive to improve. Harsh and blunt criticism might alienate and lead to the person leaving our community. As for names, I kind of like being called hon, sweetie, darling, sugar and whatever pops into your pretty little head.

[Leslie Langford]

I generally respond only to those ladies here who are posting with the objective of getting honest and objective feedback on their presentation, and who have obviously made a sincere attempt to emulate GG's as much as possible by trying to perfect their skills at passing, or at least at blending in. And as Lorileah pointed out above, the goal here should be constructive criticism, and delivered in such a way that it builds a person up instead of tearing them down. Often, it is not so much what one says, it is more about how one says it that sets the tone in such instances.

Of course, there are also the narcissistic posters here who just want to strut their stuff and attract everyone's attention in a "look at me!" kind of way. I'll leave it to others of the same mindset to respond to those posts - it's just not my thing.

Same for the fetishistic crossdressers here who like to showcase their latest "extreme" outfits in an in-your-face kind of way. My preference would be for them to keep it indoors (or at least amongst others of a similar mindset) and spare us their version of TMI.

I like to think that I fall into the first camp of forum members here who actively seek constructive feedback, and when I do post pics here, I often put the same ones up on my Facebook page to invite similar feedback from my female friends. That way, I get a more balanced opinion of what works for me, and what doesn't. Clearly, as crossdressers we have our own views of what constitutes a preferred female presentation, but a GG might see things quite differently. Then again, there is always that little thing known as beauty being in the eyes of the beholder, and it never ceases to amaze me that how divergent we males and GG's can be in our opinions when it comes to what each camp considers attractive.

Not long ago, I posted a picture of me wearing a black dress with a brightly colored flowered motif running down one side of it, together with some other photos. I had some initial misgivings when I bought that dress, as part of me was intrigued by it, while the other part of me thought it might be a bit too extreme. Well, the GG's as a group just loved it, while some of the other outfits that I was modeling and which were more "mainstream" - and in my mind, more flattering - got nary a mention.

Go figure...

[Julie Denier]

I enjoy the praise, of course, but welcome and appreciate good critical feedback. It helps me try harder with my appearance. I mean, look what I'm dealing with to start ...

[DebbieL]

Nearly all of us have had those very early experiences. We are presenting ourselves to another person or people for the first time or the first time in a while. We took 20-30 pictures to get one we could barely stand, but we let someone else see it, maybe only for a few seconds.

Our biggest fear was that they would say something like "Dude you make the ugliest lady I've ever seen, you could never look like a girl". Even if we are NOT transsexual, the pain would be extreme.

The great thing about a site like this is that there are others who can be supportive. Sometimes I see a picture that makes me wonder if they tried at all, but especially if they have put up several pictures and ask "which do you like best", I will try to be honest without being brutal. Things like "The blond wig washes you out, but the red really compliments your skin tone. He's got black bushy eyebrows and platinum blond hair. There are a dozen tips I could give him to look like her, but again, it needs to be done with compassion, especially when this is an early reveal.

[Jenessa]

I want honesty when I ask questions, therefore I don't ask how I look, lol .

[natcrys]

...

What is clear is that there are a few camps: 1) if you can't say something nice, say nothing and 2) this is a support forum and therefore one must be supportive and 3) tell it like it is

...

I'm mostly in camp 1, but I take elements out of 2 and a little of 3. If I just don't like the clothes/shoes/make-up and I really cannot think of anything nice to say.. I'll say nothing at all.

However, I find I can usually say something nice about some aspect of the outfit/pose/attitude... and if I feel like it, I will say that. Passability is a ridiculous criterion for whether or not to give nice compliments and opinions.

Telling it like it is (yeah sistah!).. I only do that if someone asks for it.. and then I will check, double-check, triple-check what I write, to make sure it's constructive and not insulting. And usually, I will do that in a private manner.


I can remember way back in 97/98, when I had my first photos (film.. yes.. good old analog days) developed, scanned and uploaded to both a Dutch and a US website. I remembered how scared and apprehensive I was. If I had gotten any harsh criticism at the time ("you couldn't even pass at blind people's convention"), I would have probably just thrown away the make-up brushes... it would have been just dresses and heels for me.. while staying inside.

So glad people were nice to me back then... when I had no real dress sense and thought orange lipstick was a good idea.

[paulaprimo]

let's all be brutally honest and just cut and paste this answer (below) for all future anwers...

"you're a man dressed as a woman, you don't pass and never will"

there's your honesty, now what??

[Trishpdxcd2]

Well I think its fair game to give criticism if someone asks. But for me, I just feel more comfortable not saying anything if I don't have something positive to add and haven't been asked for an opinion. I do think we should be generally supportive of girls who post pictures here and if we have criticism just be sensitive to how we present it.

[Kate Simmons]

When people ask how they look and I tell them good, that's my honest appraisal. Otherwise I will PM them with tactful suggestions. It's really not my purpose to critique someone and the only real way to make self improvement is by personal experience which will come in time.

As far as my use of the title "Hon", it is a term of endearment I have for fellow Forum members and how does anyone know if we are personal friends or not? It's simply no one else's business. If anyone wants me to stop calling them "Hon" all they have to do is tell me and I will stop. Simple really.

[Tamara Croft]

You know what bugs me, is members who keep bringing up the old argument of honesty... and especially those who haven't got any pictures on the forum!!

I'll be honest with you Joni, I think your avatar cleavage is horrible.... hows that for honesty? oh I'm sorry, was that too brutal for you? too bad, I was being sincere!!

I'll be BLUNT shall I?

THREAD CLOSED!!