Being traditionally masculine or feminine

[JocelynRenee]

This is instantly one of my all-time favorite threads. Many great points have been made and I agree that we tend to overlook the fact that it took many years for society to move to the point where it became "acceptable" for women to behave in a traditionally masculine way. Change for us will absolutely require time and someone to lead the way.

There's more to it than that, though, because part of the problem is simply that it is more acceptable to behave like a boy than it is to behave like a girl. Boys are strong; girls are weak. Girl behaving like a boy? That's a step up. Boy behaving like a girl is a step down.

Sadly, our culture inculcates this belief at a very young age - in both girls and boys. Just take a look at the #LikeAGirl campaign by Always and the filmmaker Lauren Greenfield. It's shocking and sad how our girls view themselves. We've got to stop this, and frankly, manning up and putting on a dress is a great way to start breaking this cycle. LOL

[sometimes_miss]

This got me thinking this morning; I wonder does it go both ways? Are any of you that have SOs who tell you how they want you to dress and behave, do you also get to tell them how they get to dress and behave? That maybe you want them to do things that are considered to be traditionally more feminine and that you do not want to see them do things that are traditionally considered to be masculine.

Oddly enough, back in the 90's my ex and I had this very discussion with our therapist. Of course, both therapist and ex are women, and adhered to the timeless camaraderie of women both saying that men had defined what was appropriate behavior for women for many generations, and how did I like it now that the tables were turned? Never anything being said about what was right, or fair: Only that it was now the women's turn to decide what men were allowed to be, and do. It was just such a perfect example of how the women's rights movement was and is never about fairness, it's about advancing the rights of what women want over anything that men want. When I brought up this fact, of course both immediately went back to their argument that I was just experiencing what women had gone through in the past; they refused to address the issue of what is right, and fair, for both sexes. And I see that in the past twenty years, absolutely nothing has changed. And I don't expect it to in my lifetime.

[Kate T]

Yeah but what was once considered masculine for a woman to do has changed over time while for men it has remained rather static. I think this has been due to how men and women have handled their desires. Women stand up for themselves and stick together much better than men do.

Ish. Certainly in western culture the traditional masculine "breadwinner" role who arrives home from work and watches the news while his wife brings him dinner and the kids have nothing to do with him is (thankfully!) no longer the case. Fathers participate heavily in child rearing and this is not only socially accepted but even applauded in many areas of society.

I agree with you that ON AVERAGE women tend to be more empathic and this leads them to consider the struggles of others and perhaps work better in a group as there doesn't tend to be a clash of ego's. My wife and I had this discussion a while ago and agreed there is a tendency for women to prioritise family over ideals, whereas men tend to prioritise ideals over family. It's not necessarily that one way is right or better. It does tend to mean that history focuses on men more because history tends to be the story of ideals rather than the story of relationships.

[Jenniferathome]

... How many women do you see at formal functions wearing a suit and tie? ...

Well, mostly zero. You know why? Because they think it would look stupid! The same reason you don't see men wearing gowns at that same function. They don't want to. Now, that aside, it is equally true that a woman wearing suit will be less offensive than a man wearing a gown.

[Jamie001]

Well, mostly zero. You know why? Because they think it would look stupid! The same reason you don't see men wearing gowns at that same function. They don't want to. Now, that aside, it is equally true that a woman wearing suit will be less offensive than a man wearing a gown.

I am not sure about this. Think back several years ago. I believe that a woman was hosting the Oscars and that she was dressed in a man's suit. I'm sure it wasn't Ellen Degeneres. Who am I thinking of?

[SO1Adam12]

I am not sure about this. Think back several years ago. I believe that a woman was hosting the Oscars and that she was dressed in a man's suit. I'm sure it wasn't Ellen Degeneres. Who am I thinking of?

I believe it was Ellen who, btw had just come out as a lesbian and was known for not dressing "girlie". The Press is responsible for making "will she or won't she weaar a dress" a big deal. I don't believe for a minute anyone was offended that she wore pants.

It is true that it is easier for women to wear men's style or out and out men's clothing without question. The difference being, we are not trying to pass as a man. Men's clothing is far more comfortable. My ex had a flannel shirt I loved to wear with a pair of yoga pants and a tank top on rainy/shilly days. There are articles of clothing out there that lean a bit more to the feminine side. When skinny jeans first came out, lots of teenaged boys bought them in the Junior's Dept. because they said they fit better (especially when you want to wear them halfway down your butt).

I can tell you the reason most men don't feel comfortable wearing feminine clothing - HOMOPHOBIA! The assumption among the general public is that men who WANT to wear women's clothing are gay and don't want to be perceived as gay and I include myself in that group up until my SO came out as a CDer to me. To further that, a guy trying to pass as a woman most certainly must be trying to trick straight men into kinky sex. Of course this is not how every straight, non-CDing man thinks, but I believe most do.

As for women in men's clothing, there are 3 women just within my working world who are definite CDers. One is openly a lesbian and presents completely male all the time including name. Another I am not sure is a lesbian and uses her female name and refers to herself as "Miss" to people. One is young and admits she is not sure if she is a lesbian or not and dresses like a 12 year old boy, skateboard and all. Are the rest of the women threatened by them...maybe a few. There was some whispering for a while but then it went away. I'm not sure why this is the case but I think it falls in line with it being more "acceptable" for women to experiment their sexuality. Let's face it, I haven't met a straight man yet who didn't fantasize about his wife/girlfriend having sex with another woman.

[Jenniferathome]

I am not sure about this. Think back several years ago. I believe that a woman was hosting the Oscars and that she was dressed in a man's suit. I'm sure it wasn't Ellen Degeneres. Who am I thinking of?

Well, if your one example is one woman (Ellen) at the Oscars, then I think my answer of "mostly zero" qualifies pretty well.

[LilSissyStevie]

You're probably thinking of Anne Hathaway.

[Alice Torn]

It seems like boys are born and put into a shirt and pants, and a straight jacket, and girls are born, and put into a princess outfit with wings.

[Beverley Sims]

My wife does not tell me how to dress although she prefers male dress on me.
I have a bit of a sticking point dressed as a woman in so much as she does not like me wearing a wig.

Everything else is fine....
So I don't know.

[AnnaBMarie]

The boundaries between masculine and feminine are certainly fuzzier than they were a few years ago, but still some traditions are firmly entrenched. I can drive a high performance car at 130 MPH on the track, fell trees with a chain saw, and play rugged sports, but put on a bra and the world spins off its axis. What I wouldn't give to be Danica Patrick.