Any explanation for this?

[melanie206]

I have a thing for statistics so I'll start this by asking for forgiveness and, yes, I probably have better things to do with my time. But, here goes. Some of you girls might be familiar with the adult hook-up site adultfriendfinder.com. You can do a number of different kinds of searches even without being a paying member so feel free to replicate this for yourself. I found that among the first 360 people that classify themselves as "CD/TV/TG" that are within a 100 mile radius of me, only two are exclusively looking for women. To be clear, many of this same group of 360 include women among their other interests - men, groups, couples, other CD/TV/TG etc. Before you condemn the source or the messenger, please consider the fact that statistical or demographic information for TG ( broadly defined ) people is very hard to come by.
Melanie

[Beth-Lock]

I suspect that many are looking for an adventure or a cheap thrill or something, not a serious, caring relationship, and this goes for many dating sites for TS/Tg/CD, not just the one you mention.

[Jenniferathome]

You are using a hookup site as a source for unbiased data? By definition it is biased. You need to replicate this across all dating sites to get An unbiased sample. Straight, married, male cross dresses (the norm) are not on hookup sites

[Amy Lynn3]

I would suspect that a good number there are looking for a "hook up". I look at the casual encounters on Craigslist sometimes . Under the T for M section you will see the ones who are looking for just that.

[kimdl93]

I'd concur with the assessment that adult sites (ironic term for such juvenile behavior) tend to attract people looking for cheap thrills. Google cross dresser or transgender and you'll be bombarded with links to sites that are entirely porn focused. Porn sites are about as representative of the TG community as they are of the GG population...basically not at all.

[melanie206]

Regardless of what they are looking for, relationship or hookup, it's the who they are looking for that is significant. Men on these sites have no problem expressing an exclusive desire for women. Are these particular "CD/TV/TG"s so unrepresentative of the actual population that 360 to 2 has no meaning?

[Beverley Sims]

Melanie,
Looking at sites like this you get a skewed response.

Look at a gay site and how many straight adverts do you see.

How many straight sites have gay adverts?

Mix them all together and then add them up, will give you a different result and maybe "more" balanced.

[Trishpdxcd2]

Well you have to take aff with a grain of salt but I do believe that many cd's are more gender fluid with respect to sexual preference. You would also be surprised at how many "straight" men on aff are interested in us.

[Adriana Moretti]

so you are wondering why on a creepy hookup site the cd;s are not looking for women? Thats what im guessing here? If thats it, WHY are we having this conversation? You are talking about a shady hookup site loaded with a bunch of closet queens who are pretending to live out their sexual fantasies online??..and you are wondering why these creepy crawlers fantasy's dont involve women??? Those sites are a joke. Lets not forget out of those 360 people in your area , 90% of them are inactive members who signed up one night with one hand on the keyboard and another between thier legs. and 75% are also a bunch of hairy pantie wearers .....I just wasted 5 minutes of my life typing.......dont waste your time on those sites........sorry...i havent eaten yet, and im in Bit$h mode..

[melanie206]

Beverly, I'm not sure if those are rhetorical questions. Many men "seeking" men claim to be straight. I've never known what to make of that. AFF has literally millions of members of all kinds but there is a valid question whether hookup preferences among their members are any sort of valid representation of the the population.

Adrianna, I think you can say bitch on here. I'm sure I'll find out shortly. Are there no hairy closet queens on this site? And what's wrong with people having an interest in sex. It's all in how things are said. Anyway, I like sex and I'm bi but my interest in this is not prurient, it's demographic. My motivation is that I feel strongly that TGs are undercounted in the legitimate available statistics and actually little is known about their preferences, lifestyles etc.

[StephanieinSecret]

I think the OP's assessment is more correct that most here want to admit.

Since the LGBT community is more accepting of gender fluid behavior, gay and bi cross dressers ( and TG) have support built into their respective communities. Straight and, shall we say, "bi-curious" men fear being stigmatized by their dressing, and keep their habit under wraps. Thus, sites like this one have mostly straight men on it- this is the only "safe" place for straight cross dressers.

The statement that many adult dating profiles are typed with one hand is likely true regardless of the population. Libido gets the best of everyone sometimes.

[sometimes_miss]

Are these particular "CD/TV/TG"s so unrepresentative of the actual population that 360 to 2 has no meaning?

Probably not. Even here, you'll find a good number of members who express that they're straight, but when en femme find men attractive, or are turned on by the idea of dating a guy 'but only when in girl mode'. What that tells you is that a lot of people have underlying feelings of homosexuality but simply cannot accept it in themselves, to the point of inventing whole separate female personalities in order to distance themselves from their gay desires; they even speak about themselves using a female name in third person to do this. That's how much of a stigma that our society still places on homosexual feelings and behavior.

As far as AFF, I've been a member for a very long time, and have found zero women interested in crossdressers other than professional sex workers. That site is routinely patrolled by them, pandering to those of us who have no other options. They're all very polite, very similar to any other merchant selling their products. But very expensive, you're looking at >$400 an hour minimum just to meet them, and you're on the clock the moment you open the door. Then if you want anything sexual, well that's extra. There are also dominatrixes who will treat you any way you want, but no sexual or non sexual contact (no hugs, no caressing) for about the same price, but will 'abuse you' to your heart's content for starting at about $500 an hour. I did find one who would help me with make up and picking out my maid uniform for a weekend, who then 'let me' clean her house and do chores like a good little maid should, and I was also 'allowed' to sleep on the floor overnight. Cost for the weekend? $1500. No sex involved.

So now you see why I date, and maintain DADT. I can afford to take 'normal' women out to very nice places indeed for what the professionals would charge for, basically, nothing more than tolerating my existance in a dress. It's simply not worth that much, knowing that they're not really interested in me at all, while I'm getting nothing out of the experience.
But again, a lot of us don't have any other options.

[Jenniferathome]

...

So now you see why I date, and maintain DADT. I can afford to take 'normal' women out to very nice places indeed for what the professionals would charge for, basically, nothing more than tolerating my existance in a dress. It's simply not worth that much, knowing that they're not really interested in me at all, while I'm getting nothing out of the experience.
But again, a lot of us don't have any other options.

You are basing any future relationship on some hookup site experiences? That's like saying you are deciding on what car to buy based on how your pants fit. They don't go together! What you can discover on THIS forum is unequivocal: women can get past the cross dressing. What they can't abide is lying, hiding and total immersion. Keep your cross dressing in perspective and women, quality women, are available.

and Melanie, no, your 360:2 ratio has no meaning. Literally zero value statistically due to bias. Kink sites beget kink members. This small result has zero relevance to cross dressers in general.

[melanie206]

Jennifer, bias by who toward/against what? And 360 to 2 is not a ratio. It's more of a comparison or score.

[Mink]

Straight, married, male cross dresses are not on hookup sites

I wouldn't be so sure!

oh god!

[Katey888]

Interesting question, Melanie… and a few interesting opinions to date…

I’ve never looked at AFF before so I thought I should take a gander before answering… ohmigosh – yes, Adrian’s assessment of ‘creepy hookup site’ is bang on. I would have to agree with members here who advise that any data is skewed – in the UK this is advertised as an unambiguous free adult sex or swinger site, so you are getting primarily folk that are just interested in getting together for carnal relations – nothing wrong with that, if that floats your boat. I don’t believe we have sufficient data to really understand the 360:2 ratio other than to say that from the sample you have found it indicates a strong preference towards bi/gay relationships from the TS/TV/TG (UK categories) who have registered. Unfortunately any open to public site will have skewed membership depending a lot on its stated or evident nature, just as CD.com attracts ‘the thinking man’s girl’ we do also get our fair share of more carnally focused CDs… the more overt ones tend not to hang around here long. So we’re almost certainly not representative of the general demographic either.

A few things I would highlight from members already:

Well you have to take aff with a grain of salt but I do believe that many cd's are more gender fluid with respect to sexual preference.

I think in general this is true, even from what I’ve experienced on the forum here – and don’t forget that we’re a self-selected group of thinking folk (sexual orientation has zip relation to intellect as far as I’m aware, btw… ) Many of us are predominantly straight, but a lot are also uncertain, as well as those definitively bi- or gay… hard to put a number on it, but someone could count back through the 17 pages of ‘How straight of a guy are you..’ thread… and I think it would confirm the following:

I think the OP's assessment is more correct that most here want to admit.
Since the LGBT community is more accepting of gender fluid behavior, gay and bi cross dressers ( and TG) have support built into their respective communities. Straight and, shall we say, "bi-curious" men fear being stigmatized by their dressing, and keep their habit under wraps. Thus, sites like this one have mostly straight men on it- this is the only "safe" place for straight cross dressers.

We may have become a self-fulfilling demography – but even given this assertion (which I’d tend to go along with) we still have a high percentage of folk who may alternate.

And..?????

I think there are some here who fear stigma by association (and possibly the approbation of their SO)… Some CDers are bi-/gay so there’s a chance we all might be…? Not really – we are who and how we are – just a big mix, almost certainly abnormally proportioned compared to the general pop – but then with something so screwy and gender-related going on with most of us, why would that be a surprise??

Don’t sweat it Melanie – we’re just one, great big mixed-up community of girly guys…

Katey x

[Cheryl T]

Why would we condemn you?
I'm still waiting for the point of the post. If it is to state that most are Bi or whatever then you obviously have skewed data as you went to a site that caters to those looking for sexual connections. Makes the statistics biased from the start.
If you love statistics then at least use a scientific method to obtain the data before making assumptions on that data.

[melanie206]

Do people looking for sex have different percentages of sexual preferences and how they relate to gender than the general population?

[StephanieinSecret]

I don't think so.

At least I haven't heard of any reliable infor that says they do.

[Jenniferathome]

Jennifer, bias by who toward/against what? ...

Melanie, the bias is in your sample. These people joined a "kink" site of sorts. You would not expect such a result if you looked at Match.com, right? Why? Because relationships and hookups are totally different. The data you gathered is tainted by the sample, therefore it's meaningless. It's virtual self-fulfilling prophesy.

[ReineD]

I think that people whose sexual interests are atypical and therefore less accepted by society tend to congregate in the few areas (specialty internet sites or clubs) that form specifically to attract like-minded individuals. Whereas heterosexuals who seek relationships and not hookups can find partners anywhere. I also wonder if individuals with atypical sexual interests have stronger libidos and are therefore more flexible in their choice of partners, so as to augment their potential sex-partner pool?

Fetlife is another site that attracts like-minded folks where ALL the members are into BDSM. But, BDSM aficionados are a small percentage of the total population.

Beverly, I'm not sure if those are rhetorical questions. Many men "seeking" men claim to be straight. I've never known what to make of that.

They're either in denial, or they'll pander to what they believe CDers want to hear, in order to find someone to have sex with.

[Marcelle]

Hi Melanie,

Firstly, not hacking on your post or your observations. Academically, I am a bit of a nerdy social science gal and have always found statistics to be a funny thing. Statistically you can prove it is probable that an elephant can hang suspended by it's tail from a daisy while suspended over a cliff or that pigeons cause cancer . . . it is all in the analysis. Unfortunately, what you have is a "restricted range" in your sample . . . specifically CDs who are attracted to a specific site with a specific requirement. To get a true sense of your hypothesis you need a stratified sample as Jennifer had noted earlier (a cross section of CDs across several dating sites).

Still . . . interesting observation

Hugs

Isha

[sometimes_miss]

Keep your cross dressing in perspective and women, quality women, are available.
.

Prove it. In numbers. What you say, and what we experience in reality, are two different things. Yes, there are SOME women out there that will date us, but out of what, 27,000 of us here, you can count the GG's in the low double digits. And the last discussion showed that virtually NONE of them are enthusiastic about it.
I'm still waiting for the date a crossdresser matchmaking site with real, live women on it. It's a guaranteed get rich quick idea that is open to all those who really believe that there are enough women for each crossdresser to have one of his own. After all, many of us are very gainfully employed, healthy, clean, and we know how hard it is for women in so many areas of life. I for one have no trouble finding women to go out with, however, none are attracted to crossdressers. It's no secret. Women in general want masculine men. A guy in a dress simply isn't what they're thinking of when they go out on a Saturday night with their friends.

[kimdl93]

Regardless of what they are looking for, relationship or hookup, it's the who they are looking for that is significant. Men on these sites have no problem expressing an exclusive desire for women. Are these particular "CD/TV/TG"s so unrepresentative of the actual population that 360 to 2 has no meaning?

The "data" derived from this source reflects only one thing....the stereotypical and erroneous association between transgenderism and homosexuality by some people. It tells us something about the presumptions of people frequenting this site, but nothing whatsoever about the sexual preferences of transgendered people.

[Sara Jessica]

I think the "data" also partially proves what Sometimes Miss is saying. The folks on said site have already been there and done that when trying to post for a woman to hook up with. After a day, week, month, year...whatever, they absolutely struck out so now they've resorted to trying for an encounter with anyone who can fog up a mirror, namely another man who likely has the same exact motivation for being on said site in the first place. Therefore, I think the "data" means absolutely nothing other than leading one to the conclusion that horny men frequent that area of the site and they are willing to hookup with anyone to satisfy their needs.

The problem is that while there are plenty of women out there into alternative kinks of various kinds who might post for hookups on sites like those, those kinks don't typically include meeting up with individuals who are TG/CD. I have never heard of such a subculture among women so most in our demographic have to resort to dating that requires actively looking for a woman who has an open mind on regular dating sites versus putting yourself out there at some point early in the dating process each and every time, seeing what sticks. Of course one them must have a comfort level in their own being to allow themselves to be out to all whom they hold dear, a line many in these pages are unwilling to cross for a myriad of reasons.