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Thread: The reveal trap

  1. #51
    Member Crystal Beth's Avatar
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    I guess I cheated on my reveal with my wife. I used Haloween as a chance to dress up and she loved it. I had dressed once before for a charity benifit. After testing the waters on Halloween I magically "found" my stash that I claimed was from the prior charity event. She was instantly accepting and had fun with me dressing up and insisted I try her stuff on. I know how lucky I am to have her in my life. If I had tried the reveal on any other day who knows what would have happened? I understand and feel for those that are keeping a secret from their SO because I have been there. The urge never went away. I would hate to see my marriage blow up in my face because I love wearing panties and skirts. Not only is my wife accepting, she is also encouraging. The reveal is scary because your life could change in an instant. I am lucky that mine changed for the better.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea DiMattias View Post
    I fully accept that I don't know how she will react. Indeed, it's a concern for me tomorrow as we are going shopping as a family, and one of the stops is Torrid so that my wife can return a top she purchased online. The same Torrid where I've taken long lunches to try on dresses, and the same Torrid where the manager actively complimented me on my legs. I did not have the opportunity to get out there earlier this week and confirm the discretion of the SAs, so I'm praying for the best and running through scenarios in my head of how to respond.
    Oh you are soooooo toast!!!

    Seriously, what you need to do is avoid going into that store unless you are ready for the big reveal on the spot. Magically find the need to use the restroom as you approach the store and then find a sitting area somewhere outside to wait for her to finish, if necessary. After all, that is totally the "guy" thing to do, to avoid that uncomfortable hovering while their SO shops 'til she drops.
    Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
    Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)

  3. #53
    Member Andrea Chenowith's Avatar
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    Sara - I actually had that same thought. As it turns out, there's a kids play area just down the way from this store. I suggested that instead of trying to corral our toddler, she and I should go hit the play area. Wife enthusiastically agreed. :-p

  4. #54
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
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    Andrea - I'm happy my thoughts struck a chord with you... hopefully there will be more who have read your thoughts too and also find some resonance but just don't comment...

    Quote Originally Posted by SO1Adam12 View Post
    Katey I found your answer interesting in that you can "control" this without the need to reveal. Trust and believe I think many SO's wish they could have remained blindly ignorant to the whole thing. ...

    I have to wonder if you didn't have the opportunity you apparently have to fulfill your need would you feel the same? ...

    I think you have an innate amount of control and can compartmentalize your life very well. If you can do that and be satisfied be grateful. Most people do not have that much control.
    SO1 - I've read many comments by the GGs that are generous enough to actively interact and support us here (quite few, it seems, although we are grateful..) and I do thoroughly believe that keeping this under wraps is the best way for someone in my situation to go - as you say in closing though, it would probably ONLY work with those of us who can find or engineer the opportunity AND manage that partitioning. I don't believe it would work for everyone but I'm also becoming more convinced that there tends to be a disproportionate number of folk here that post and have tolerant or 'aware' SOs - hence the number of outings stories, DADT discussions, shopping excursions and so on... I'm afraid the posts of a typically secret and closeted CDer are significantly less exciting - let's face it, we have very little to post about! If I were to predict where I am in a few years time with this, I suspect the urge may have subsided again (as it has more than once in the past) so to reveal something that only might be continuing in the future seems overly risky to me when the revelation may also lead to something catastrophic with respect to my marriage. This is a balance that I'm prepared to manage and live with - I accept it won't be for everyone, but I do know of others on the forum who have both very specific and well reasoned and justified motivations for not revealing. I can live with a lie that protects my wife, but I also accept that others cannot find that a suitable course, either for ethical reasons or the pressures of the need to express this side of themselves more openly.

    I do believe there are multiple ways of surviving this condition, as well as understanding that for some to survive psychologically, nothing less than complete openness would be valid. We're back to that old "one size doth not fitteth all..." mantra. (I believe Shakespeare used to say that about his tights... )

    Katey x
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    Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear"
    Stefani Germanotta

  5. #55
    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
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    OK, just some random thoughts I had as I read through this thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by Melanie Z View Post
    I knew she wouldn't be happy about it, but I was 99% sure she would accept me no matter what, as she had already stuck with me through worse.
    I, too, was sure that everything would work out O.K.; that all that was good about me would easily outweigh the one, single downside of crossdressing. I was terribly wrong. Sexual attraction is at the base of male-female marriage relationships, at least in the non-arranged marriage world. Screw that up, and your marriage is essentially toast, burned toast.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenniferathome View Post
    But it if your relationship is solid in every other way, it's one that can be adjusted to fairly easily. The caveat is that cross dressng can't be all consuming. If it is just a piece in your life, it would s easily manageable.
    Doesn't matter if it's a large or small piece in your life. For a lot of women, it's a deal breaker. They simply are turned off by crossdressing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mink View Post
    so is one to accept a life of sadness and being alone if it just never works out... ?
    This of course, is what many of us face. There simply aren't a lot of women out there who are interested in dating/marrying a guy who is a crossdresser.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erica Marie View Post
    Would you want the girl you fell in love with, to come along 3 yrs later and tell you that she was really not who you expected.
    Couples face that every day, because no one can tell the other every single event that has happened to them through their life. The best that can be done is to tell what we think they need to know. However: What WE think they need to know, and what THEY think they need to know, are sometimes, disastrously, two very different things. It's been said more times than I can imagine, that if a woman is physically hot enough, a guy will overlook practically anything. That doesn't work the other way around. What our potential mates face, is something that can drastically affect whether they are attracted to us sexually, or turned off by it. When someone is sexually turned off, that's the beginning of the end of the relationship, because shortly after, they will start looking for a male to fill that void we've just created. Women stay with all kinds of bad men; rapists, wife beaters, murderers, violent prisoners, drunks, liars. The one thing in common, is that they're all still masculine. And the one thing that we screw up, is that masculine image that they're attracted to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Melissa in SE Tn View Post
    Those with understanding spouses have little idea as to how blessed they are.
    I see this one over and over on this forum. Those are the 1%'ers in the CD world. It often appears that they have no clue as to how the rest of us live, or how the other 99% of wives react when they find out their 'man' isn't the man they thought he was, but a girly guy instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teresa View Post
    Basically CDing isn't a problem if your partner accepts it !
    Now there's the understatement of the year!
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    And yet, if you don't stand up and fight for your right to simply be whom you are, no one else will fight for you either.
    And yet, some of us just are exhausted from fighting. We don't want to live the rest of our lives in continuous confrontations, putting our lives out there for others to destroy as they wish. Because you don't always see the enemy coming. That's how we get killed. So we just stay out of the shooting range.
    Quote Originally Posted by JessM. View Post
    If I were you, I would admit early on to a minor fetish for women's lingerie (or whatever).
    Uh, Jess, how many of your friends are married to crossdressers? Liking lingerie, and wanting to dress up entirely as a woman I'd think would be seen as two very different things. If you read the forums over at plentyoffish.com,you'll come across numerous threads about girls finding their guy trying on their panties or such, and the response is virtually 100% negative. That's the general population, not here in pink fog land.
    Quote Originally Posted by MissTee View Post
    I would offer up that timing is NOT everything. In some cases, regardless of rather you told early or late, they just don't like it and don't want any part of it. Ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenniferathome View Post
    Or they may be able to handle it. And THAT is the chief point.
    However, the problem comes when they CAN'T handle it. Which is the majority of the time. Those of us who have found, and participate in this forum get blinded by the pink fog, and wind up crashing into a tree, so to speak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorileah View Post
    It is the CD controlling what the SO knows and thus control their reaction, good or bad. The difference is how much you have invested early (not much) and later (a whole lot). And you keeping your SO from pursuing a life unfettered by YOUR crossdressing. It is selfish to take years and years from a person, and that is what you do by not telling them early, where they could be living with someone who doesn't hold secrets.
    And yet, everyone has secrets. Maybe they don't think of them as secrets, but they are. Anything you don't tell your mate, is a secret. Anything. Had oral sex with your second girlfriend in the front seat of car, then 20 years later buy a restored vehicle of the same type, perhaps subconsciously wanting to remember the episode? Yup, that's a secret, whether you want to accept that or not, if you never told your wife about it because you didn't think it was important.
    One of the things that bothered me was, throughout my life, I'd hear repeated stories about the same thing. Some women in her 40's or 50's would discover that her husband was unfaithful 20 years ago, and it would consume her, because she'd then believe that he wasn't the man she believed she had for all those years. And the marriage would fall apart. Yet, another would go on just fine because the husband didn't ever reveal that he'd fooled around. In many cases, yes, ignorance is bliss. What she doesn't know, doesn't hurt her. Think now; 75% of men, and over 50% of women, are unfaithful. How many spouses know? And how many go on through life, happy, BECAUSE they don't know? In the UK, some 10% of men unknowingly raise children that were fathered by other men. And this has been going on throughout history. So, it does bring up the question of, whether we can keep it out of the relationship well enough.
    Oh, and one thing that women might be better able to tolerate is telling her, 'I USED to be a crossdresser', rather than 'I AM a crossdresser'. And if that passes muster, you can later try to see if you can ease doing it again into the conversation, say, maybe at Halloween or something. Just a thought.
    Last edited by sometimes_miss; 11-23-2014 at 04:32 AM.
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

  6. #56
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gendermutt View Post
    … Considering how my wife was raised and her life before me, for her to accept me as much as she has, I can only imagine how much easier if could have been for the both of us had I revealed early on.
    You did tell her early on … didn't you tell her a few months after marriage? And you've been married for many years now? In other words, she has known for many more years that she didn't know?

    Early telling is not always a guarantee of acceptance. Again, there are too many variables: religious objections, conservative values, a distaste for the crossdressing or what a wife may believe it stands for or means. And then there are the behaviors associated with the CDing, for the CDers for whom it is sexually charged. The wives or gfs of these CDers don't object to the CDing as much as they object to the seeming obsession.

    But with all the information available now, there really is no excuse for someone beginning a relationship to not tell. I think that most CDers are aware there are many people who disapprove, and it is only fair to tell a partner before marriage. If she can't live with it then it is best to know this before a commitment is made.

    As to the decision to tell or not after decades of marriage, I guess it depends on the need to tell. If it becomes a priority in a CDers life, then it's hard to continue to sneak around and he pretty well has to tell … like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. But if he only CDs occasionally and he's happy the rest of the time as a male, in other words if his male life and the people in it are his priority over the CDing, then I suppose there isn't a need to tell if he knows that his wife has conservative views.
    Reine

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by sometimes_miss View Post
    ...However, the problem comes when they CAN'T handle it. Which is the majority of the time. Those of us who have found, and participate in this forum get blinded by the pink fog, and wind up crashing into a tree, so to speak.
    ...
    I have to call bull. There is zero data to support your "majority" statement. If this forum is your litmus test, then the opposite has been proven. Even the women here who hate cross dressing, overwhelmingly write about non-cross dressing behaviors or issues as the real problem. You want this to be a fact so as to have something to blame.

  8. #58
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
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    Jennifer - unfortunately I don't think this forum is the litmus test...

    We are fortunate to have a group of very supportive GGs/SOs here with us - a thread in Loved Ones testing whether the pre-knowledge would have been a deal-breaker had about half of the GGs agreeing that they would have had difficulty continuing the relationship if they were told. Beyond that we have an active member base that does seem to major in SOs that are aware, but that runs from participating, through accepting/tolerating, to DADT - and we see plenty of examples of long-term DADT relationships move to intolerance too.

    I hesitate to suggest it, but for the benefit of newbies or those that deliberately excise the memory because of the trauma it generally causes, a few minutes spent browsing the posts on crossdresserswives.com (a support forum specifically for non-accepting spouses) shows the flip side of the coin that we don't see here because it simply would not be tolerated.

    This forum can't be the litmus test on its own, but you can't call bull without opening up your perspective to those other sites too. And for individuals, any debate over what the stats actually are seems irrelevant to me: this is relationship Russian roulette - some folk get lucky; some don't - the disparity between the two outcomes can be catastrophic and are absolute for individuals. It is just as dangerous for folk to base any judgments on data that is drawn from a high proportion of successful outcomes (this forum) as the opposite.

    Everyone needs to be wary of what is often couched in 'factual' terms here...

    Katey x
    "Put some lipstick on - Perfume your neck and slip your high heels on
    Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear"
    Stefani Germanotta

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by sometimes_miss View Post
    OK, just some random thoughts I had as I read through this thread:

    Originally Posted by Melanie Z
    ---
    I knew she wouldn't be happy about it, but I was 99% sure she would accept me no matter what, as she had already stuck with me through worse.
    ---

    I, too, was sure that everything would work out O.K.; that all that was good about me would easily outweigh the one, single downside of crossdressing. I was terribly wrong. Sexual attraction is at the base of male-female marriage relationships, at least in the non-arranged marriage world. Screw that up, and your marriage is essentially toast, burned toast.
    The situation for others may be different from what it was for me. I was speaking specifically about my SO there, you'd have to know her to understand. I would hardly say our relationship is based on sexual attraction, though our sexual relationship is doing fine. We're more like best friends, with romantic love added on top. She is so dedicated to me, even after the reveal her greatest fear was that I would leave her - and I love her just as deeply. When I said she had "already stuck with me through worse" it probably was not the best choice of words - what I meant was that she had stayed with me through my darkest hours of dealing with crippling mental illness, and compared to that, knowing her as I do, I didn't see how crossdressing could be a big enough problem to break up our relationship. She's open minded and socially liberal, it's more a matter of "not in my backyard", or rather, "my man wouldn't want to do that". I don't know what might happen in the future, but from where I'm sitting, things are looking okay. At the moment, she's still kind of in bargaining mode, or maybe thinking she can "fix" me, but at the same she is trying to be okay with it and I appreciate that.

  10. #60
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    RenieD #56- I do not consider my reveal to be early on. Although earlier than many on here. Early on to me is weeks, or at most a few months, when a relationship typically moves into a more committed phase. It was 6 months into my marriage, and a total of 3 and a half years from the time we 1st started dating. By that time, she had what she thought was complete knowledge of me as a person. It was her decision to marry based on what she thought was her full knowledge of me as a person.

    I agree too that an early (er) reveal is not a guarantee of acceptance, nor is a later one a guarantee of non acceptance. It does up the odds significantly however. It allows a partner to grow into it from the formative stages of a relationship, and avoids so many of the difficulties of the shock, insecurities, broken trust.

    What is also very important is how any person with whatever gender issues they have deals with it, and how the revealing process goes. How patient we are with a partner who has little or no experience of transgender people. What compromises, if any are needed are we willing to forge, and that we honor those. Open honest communication is also extremely vital. Otherwise, a partial disclosure will only likely end up like the initial shock feeling repeated over and over. The broken trust and insecurities will also likely keep re occurring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorileah
    I just wasted space and time for 80% of the people who read this thread.
    For the 20% of the people who will taken an active read, that is better than nothing, and far better than I could have said it, along with the rest of the post of which I quoted you from, thank you.
    Last edited by Lorileah; 11-25-2014 at 04:09 PM. Reason: Merged posts into one, you can edit your previous post when adding things
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  11. #61
    Mumbler Samantha Clark's Avatar
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    It's easy and tempting to generalize from anecdotal evidence. At the end of the day, each situation is unique and highly dependent on the individuals. The outcome of any particular person's situation cannot be predicted because each individual situation is a singularity. In my own case, the response of my wife is unique to my spouse and our long relationship. It's unique and cannot be predicted based on the experience of others. And her response cannot predict the response of other wives/SOs.
    Putting the y (chromosome) in girly!

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katey888 View Post
    Jennifer - unfortunately I don't think this forum is the litmus test...

    ...
    And you may very well be right. But there is no other data produced scientifically that can allow for a comment like, "the majority of time."

  13. #63
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katey888 View Post
    ... a thread in Loved Ones testing whether the pre-knowledge would have been a deal-breaker had about half of the GGs agreeing that they would have had difficulty continuing the relationship if they were told.
    I think I was among those who said that likely our relationship would not have progressed to the romantic stage, had I been told immediately. It's important to note that most GGs who've had no exposure to the CDing have no idea what it can mean to a potential SO. I used to think that CDers wanted to be women and most were gay, and so I would have written off my SO as a non-prospect.

    The point is, it is generally not wise to tell GGs before they've developed feelings, in fact I don't think it is wise to shout it off the rooftops to anyone. But once a GG falls in love, my guess is that most will not give up the relationship just because of the CDing, unless she is extremely religious or has staunch conservative values.

    Another issue is raising the bar considerably after telling a SO. If in the beginning the CDing is a pleasant occasional activity, but it then morphs into the dreaded PINK FOG with its sometimes associated undesirable behaviors (fantasizing about men, porn, excessive shopping and hiding clothing, hiding outings, excessive time spent preoccupied with it, in other words not being present in the relationship), then a GG's opinion can sour, as she would with any other non-CDing obsession her SO might be caught up in.
    Last edited by ReineD; 11-25-2014 at 06:47 PM.
    Reine

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katey888 View Post
    ...- a thread in Loved Ones testing whether the pre-knowledge would have been a deal-breaker had about half of the GGs agreeing that they would have had difficulty continuing the relationship if they were told. ....
    and Katey, on this idea, I find it amazing that only 50% would have reservations continuing in a relationship in which they have nothing vested. Imagine how high the % must be for that wife in a long and loving relationship!

  15. #65
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
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    So Jennifer...

    Imagine how high the % must be for that wife in a long and loving relationship!
    What you're saying is: If you want a higher percentage probability in a successful reveal, don't tell at the outset, but keep it buried, build a relationship, do lot's of other things (kids, career, life, etc.) and THEN reveal a couple of decades later...?

    All you have to do is manage the internal stress if you can... or you may find you never need to reveal it. If for some reason the urge is too much, it may not be better, but it will give you a higher probability of maintaining a relationship if your SO already has time and (some) trust invested... even higher if there are kids involved or not...? I can only imagine that some SOs would never overcome the trust issue if (as most of us here believe to some degree) they thought that this thing we claim to be innate was genetic and possibly hereditary... How would anyone feel if their partner passed on a lifelong genetic condition to one's offspring... or perhaps it leaps a generation or two...

    Actually - I think that's probably the only rational thought that trumps all other positions for me: IF this was hereditary, how many fathers here would want their sons or daughters to carry this gene, if you knew for sure...

    I think there might be a whole subject thread in that thought...

    Katey x
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    Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear"
    Stefani Germanotta

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    Come on Katey, you know that is not the implication at all. You can reread the analogy if you like.

    Now, as to heredity, if one knew one passed it on, you should inform, but that is not the case here. Not all hereditary or genetic traits are passed on.

  17. #67
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    I am enjoying & learning from the responses of Reine, Katey & jennifer... Good banter!

  18. #68
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    When personal position on acceptance or rejection in response to the reveal is the "unknown." How long did it take for your fiancee or wife to really get to know you? Drop the bomb shell after several months and there is a strong possibility she will think "Who is this guy? What am I getting into?" I've seen time and time again on this forum women starting out being OK with cross dressing until it takes over the relationship. Then it's overpowering and destructive. Some women will see cross dressing only as some sort of perversion and bail out. The entire issue of "deceit" seems to be centered on the women not having a chance to evaluate her intended spouse's quirk or other personna with respect to societal norms. It seems if the woman truly knows her husband and his qualities, positive and negative, then cross dressing will probably not blow up the marriage. It seems many women accept DADT as a compromise. That's my wife and I.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katey888 View Post
    Actually - I think that's probably the only rational thought that trumps all other positions for me: IF this was hereditary, how many fathers here would want their sons or daughters to carry this gene, if you knew for sure...
    Wow, interesting thought and one that as a mother has crossed my mind and I'll admit to watching my children for signs of crossdressing, just in case. If this were hereditary, I can say 100% I wouldn't have stayed with my H. I would not want my son to suffer as his father has - no way!

    Of course, I don't believe this is entirely genetic so I'm not freaking out...yet, lol. A combination of things is my belief, involving a predisposition toward compulsions with some childhood imprinting thrown in. Just my thoughts, but I wouldn't be surprised if my children struggle with lifelong compulsions, too, or other personality traits my H possesses. This is likely another thread entirely as you mentioned, Katey.

    As for the reveal, I don't think there's a crystal ball for this and I'd bet MOST women would prefer their partner didn't crossdress. But as I've mentioned a couple of times, MOST women also won't immediately toss away a relationship over this and if the husband is one of the good guys and not a Pink Fog narcissist lost in selfish land, then he will prioritise the relationship over this one part of himself and show her it's not a big deal. If he loses it and disappears into Crossdressing land, informing her that she just needs to accept this brand new person and situation in her life (as so many here have done!) then he deserves the divorce papers he will ultimately be served.
    Last edited by Tinkerbell-GG; 11-26-2014 at 03:25 PM.

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