This is ok... and acceptable.
Yet we're not?
This is ok... and acceptable.
Yet we're not?
The pictures say it all.
Last edited by Alice Torn; 12-02-2014 at 09:25 PM.
Hi Kaisa
Yeah, I know what you’re trying to say, but I can’t go with you in this particular instance.
This is just some cheesy “reality” show about the wives and daughters of convicted criminals… apparently members of the Mafia?!
Sooooooooooooooo… someone in the shows marketing department came up with the utterly brilliant - I hope you can hear the sarcasm! - idea of photographing the Women in stereotypical mob suits.
They’re very obviously Women, they’re very obviously not Women pretending to be, or trying to pass or blend as men.
So no, there’s no double standard at play here, just a lame attempt at marketing a lame “reality” TV show.
Question: This is the shows FIFTH season?!?!?! How does garbage like this get to five EPISODES, let alone five seasons?!?!?!
All the best
Paula
Last edited by Paula_Femme; 12-04-2014 at 12:48 PM.
Black is ALWAYS the, "New Black!"
"I really hate it when people accuse me of wearing Womens clothes... these aren't Womens clothes... I f*****g bought them!!!" Eddie Izzard.
Paula, compare and contrast with "Survivor".
These shows are there because there's not enough Librium to go around. I rest my case.
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Be all the woman that you can be!
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. . . and now, On With The Show!
"It is all fun and games until someone loses an eye"
Nobody has the room to marginalize us. "Reality" TV is a bad joke. That isn't US.
"Media" is biased. It gave us 'honey boo boo'. Do you like that?
Neither do I
You don't need the media to justify who you are, honey. If you can stand up and be *seen*, then that gives the mundanes fits.. because it makes them *think*.
Intimate/personal relationships aside, who are YOU?
We are beautiful and valuable people, dear. It is ok to want approval, but ask yourself this: Who's approval and why?
*Why* do you need THEM to approve of you being YOU?
We can't be on equal ground with 'them'. They don't get it. They aren't equipped for it.
That doesn't mean that you have to hide.
- Madame Moose - on my way to Anne
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"I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam." -- Popeye the Sailor
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am 'I'? And if not now, when?" - Hillel the Elder
I don't know... the one in the middle might just be TG...
I am Me and Me is OK!
Shelby
I didn't even know what I was looking at until others commented...
Hi Kaisa,
I am not 100 percent sure what you are asking but I will assume you are implying that women dressed in men's suits is okay by societal standards and not so much for men wearing an evening gown. I truly believe the picture you presented as others have pointed out, is just hype on the part of a reality TV show. I highly doubt these ladies dress as such in actuality. However, you are correct that society is more inclined to accept women dressing in typical male style clothing than a man dressing in typical female style clothing. Is it fair or right? Absolutely not. However, what we (CDers) sometimes forget is that women had to fight a long time just to normalize something as simple as wearing trousers. When women first attempted this, they were seen as an behavioral aberration and society demanded husbands and fathers rein these women in. They continued to fight and found acceptance and made the typical male style their own.
For MtF CDers, we are bucking the traditional notion of gender appropriate dress in the opposite direction and that is hard for some to digest. However, if we keep at it . . . who knows. Point is, nothing in life comes free and sometimes you have to pay as you go along to get to where you need to be.
Hugs
Isha
The answer is simple. By being care takers of the human race (by virtue of being women) women have earned the propriety to express themselves any way they choose. Men have limited options because they are men.
Last edited by Kate Simmons; 12-03-2014 at 08:19 AM.
Second star to the right and straight on till morning
Hi Kaisa, It's the old double standard and I don't see it changing anytime soon.
Having my ears triple pierced is AWESOME, ~~......
I can explain it to you, But I can't comprehend it for you !
If at first you don't succeed, Then Skydiving isn't for you.
Be careful what you wish for, Once you ring a bell , you just can't Un-Ring it !! !!
This is clearly a play on the "Mob" theme of the show in question. These are women presenting as women who happen to be wearing men's suits. These women are unlikely to embrace such a look in their day-to-day lives. It is simply a photographic depiction, nothing more...nothing less.
What if you had a show about the husbands of beauty pageant participants? Imagine a converse image, the husbands with varying degrees of their manliness and face fur being shown from the chest up presenting obviously in evening gowns.
The difference is that such an image is seen by the public at large as being somehow humorous because we all know that men don't wear dresses. The woman in a suit, much less of a stretch which allows the viewer to see it more as the artistic and/or advertisement statement that it is rather than something many see as being worthy of a good chuckle.
Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)
DOES ANYONE REALLY CARE ABOUT "THE REALITY SHOWS"?????? I THINK IT'S ALL JUST A MADE UP, SLEAZY TYPE OF TV SHOW THAT CAPTURES THE SMALLEST OF MINDS.
Molly
"To thine own self be true"
Well first, that one in the middle looks like a dude! But this is a simple illustrative. Now, you wrote that "this is ok" but in truth, it is not. It struck you as a bit odd, did it not? They are not dressed "normally." Our reaction to it is less strong than if the roles and clothes were reversed and that is because we KNOW no woman would want to dress as man. Funny.
Don't you suppose that someday, down the road, crossdressing will be more acceptable than it is today? Think of the circumstances under which women started wearing slacks. I'm sure that "in the day," that was met with heaps of ridicule and non-acceptance just as MtoF crossdressing is today. But when you think about it, there are already some inroads... guys' nylon briefs, pink shirts and fur-trimmed coats just to mention a few. Things are changing; it's just that many of us want it all and we want it now.
The fashion industry has a lot to do with this as well. Pick up any women's clothing catalog and you see "guy shirts," "boy shorts" and "borrowed from him." And items like blazers and jeans have been "feminized" to allow women to wear them more acceptably. I'm not sure how you can make a dress more masculine but over time, I think it will happen and there will always be those on the edge, pushing the limits for the rest of us.
Patience is a virtue.
Lacy PJs
Here's a legendary example; Katharine Hepburn, one of the all-time-greats, had a very signature style, wearing tailored slacks, fitted jackets, and flats, when most Women in her position were flouncing around in voluminous dresses and heels!...Think of the circumstances under which women started wearing slacks. I'm sure that "in the day," that was met with heaps of ridicule and non-acceptance just as MtoF crossdressing is today.
In fact this was such an unusual look for the time, late 30's - early 40's, that one day on the set of "The Philadelphia Story," Cary Grant turned up to rehearsals wearing a skirt to "protest" Hepburn's shockingly unorthodox attire; Jimmy Stewart also seems to think it's a hoot!
There were even rumours, dating back to the early 30's, that she was, in fact, Gay, or at the very least, Bi... how little things have changed, when the average muggle STILL equates male Crossdressing with being Gay!
Black is ALWAYS the, "New Black!"
"I really hate it when people accuse me of wearing Womens clothes... these aren't Womens clothes... I f*****g bought them!!!" Eddie Izzard.
I understand... and continue to try. I'm such a noob, and I know it.
I was really only pointing out the clothing... not who was trying to be what.
This comes up regularly and I think the people who ask this question miss the point. The motivation for women wearing pants and jackets is completely different than the motivation for men wearing skirts and blouses and that's why society treats the two activities completely differently.
Most women who wear shirts and pants are not trying to pass themselves off as men. They're doing it for comfort and convenience. On the other hand, most men who crossdress do at some level want to pass themselves off as women. And it's this blurring of the gender lines that causes societal disapproval.
So Kate, post #9, how can CD (men) get this right (equality), please don't say castration!!!!!!
By wearing what we want in public and helping it to become publically acceptable.
Yes this unwritten prejudice seems to be buried deep within the collective unconscious.
A (seemingly) common scenario: after a wonderful and intimate night, a woman wakes up and puts on her underwear and her man's button up shirt.
"You look so beautiful in my shirt!"
An uncommon scenario: after a wonderful and intimate night, a man wakes up and puts on his girlfriends' cami and prances around the apartment.
"Um, what in the world are you doing?!"
Well Taylor, if I "pranced" around the apartment, my girlfriend would also be saying, "Um, what in the world are you doing?!"
Black is ALWAYS the, "New Black!"
"I really hate it when people accuse me of wearing Womens clothes... these aren't Womens clothes... I f*****g bought them!!!" Eddie Izzard.
i practice my runway walk sometimes...i guess technically that's
prancing (?) ...but that's a secret...
oh hell, now i've told everybody. i'm so embarrassed!
lol!
I don't get it either especially when I walk in I walk into an office (I travel a little for work) and most of the women are wearing suits and the only difference is the buttons are on the other side. I remember one such occasion is which a few women were discussing how they wanted their husbands/boyfriends to be "manly." But before I digress, and as said earlier, society will change...over time.
Kiasa,
It is an age old question that has been pondered over many times.
I can wear a skirt down the high street and I will be laughed at.
I don't think we will ever get anywhere with this one.
Next question please.
Work on your elegance,
and beauty will follow.