Trying to understand conflicting expectations.(Just whining)

[Brynna M]

So quick background. My wife knows but she doesn't ask, I'm never supposed to tell.... (She's welcome to ask though)

Based on her feelings about crossdressing she doesn't want me to be officially girly. But then there are times when she wants me to act like a girl friend, shopping with her and ooohing and ahhing over her new purchases etc going to romantic comedy movies commiserating with her over problems with her friends. Catch is that if I let too much of my girl side out she's reminded that that side of me is bigger than she'd like and gets upset. Those things don't necessarily require me to be girly but I'd get more into it and get more out of it if I could let my girl interests out.

I love my wife and this is kind of a mini frustration in the grand scheme. I'm mostly just venting but I'll gladly take insight into my wife's mentality if anyone has them.

[Ms. Laura]

It's OK to whine, we all need to verbalize things.

My wife is like that but more accepting/tolerant I guess. She does those same girl friend act things and while she doesn't get upset visibly, she doesn't like if I push it too much.
She gets uncomfortable when she sees that dressing is an identity issue rather than say a... kink maybe?

[Beverley Sims]

Bryanna,
Most mature girls don't ooh and ahh, find a middle ground and go from there.

[Rachael Leigh]

Brynna from my experience with my wife, she likes the male you much more than the girly side, after all most here who married without our spouse really knowing or understanding this part of us just confusees them.
I think they don't understand why we need any of this and just can't be their male friend.
Anyway my take

[Jenniferathome]

Maybe she wants her husband to validate her femininity in a minor way rather than being "girly." Wives often like husbands to join them in a wife "activity."

[Brynna M]

I've accepted that my wife doesn't like my girl interests. She wants me to be a guy and I am 90%+ of the time. She seems to like the guy me (most of the time ) So it works.

Where I get confused is why she wants me to be with her while shes doing typically female activities but I'm not supposed to participate. I don't think there is a guy way to go to DSW or commiserate over body image.

Jennifer you implied that this standing around while she shops validates her femininity. Can you elaborate on that for me?

[ReineD]

But then there are times when she wants me to act like a girl friend, shopping with her and ooohing and ahhing over her new purchases etc going to romantic comedy movies commiserating with her over problems with her friends. Catch is that if I let too much of my girl side out she's reminded that that side of me is bigger than she'd like and gets upset. Those things don't necessarily require me to be girly but I'd get more into it and get more out of it if I could let my girl interests out.

I was married for nearly 30 years (to a non-CDer), and I've observed my adult sons' gfs/partners over the years. You're describing what a woman wants in any man she is in a relationship with, which is an indication that he is happy when she is happy. I remember loving to go shopping with my ex in our earlier years (before the marriage soured). I've seen my sons' partners enjoy doing the same. I wasn't looking for a girlfriend or wanting him to act like one, as you describe. I just wanted to buy clothes that he thought were attractive on ME. I honestly valued his opinion, not about the merits of this fashion over that one, but I did want to buy clothing that HE personally found appealing on a woman. I wanted his eyes to light up when he saw me.

You're in a difficult position because you want the clothes for yourself, which is the opposite of what your wife wants. I think she just wants you to be like a regular guy when you go shopping with her, and look at her the way that a non-CDer would look at her … to see how the clothes bring out the beauty in HER, rather than pay attention to the clothes themselves.

As to chick flicks … I do not know a GG who wouldn't want to enjoy one with her husband. They are invariably about couples, not just the female, and so both husband and wife can relate to the situation at hand. Why shouldn't men enjoy a good romantic comedy? This has nothing to do with wanting our husbands to be like girls.

I think you should stop putting it in terms of being "girly" or "not-girly", and instead look at it as the things that husbands do to make their wives happy, just the same way she might go to a sports game with you and enjoy it as well. When you say that when you let too much of your girl out your wife gets upset, what do you do exactly? Does your voice or body language change, are you trying to mimic a woman's movements, or do you begin to talk about how the clothes might look on you? Or maybe your wife sees a light go on in your eyes over the clothes themselves?

If you can honestly show some appreciation for the way your wife looks when she comes out of the changing rooms, I cannot see why this should make her angry, this is what we all want.

[Katey888]

My take on this:

There are often some interests that may never be shared in a relationship - your wife has (understandably) allocated one of her "thou shalt not discuss" markers to a part of you that she probably sees as socially stigmatized if not just plain nuts...
You would be more than capable of participating in the requisite ooohing and ahhing, etc. (in fact - probably more genuinely so than Mr Normal...) but perhaps your abnormal interest, feelings and knowledge in this area is too much of an overlap for her and flags the subdued part of you too readily. It's grey areas that tend to be sown with minefields in my experience of relationships.

If this is just a minor frustration then just vent every so often and have done with it until the next time.

If it's more than that, then you probably need to have a more serious discussion about a part of you that is being actively denied by your wife, and right now - like all DADT sufferers - you are a willing participant in this. Sometimes compromises can go too far for balance and harmony. Perhaps there is a middle ground to let out more of your positive feminine side without being too overtly girly for her...?

Katey x

[Marcelle]

Hi Brynna,

I really can't add much more than what Reine did as she did hit the nail on the head. You are in a classic DADT relationship and your wife wants you to be the guy when you are out. You can do all those things (e.g, compliment her on her choice of clothes, listen to her when she is talking and do things she likes to do) that is not being girly that is being in a committed relationship. However, I do understand your angst in that you would like to be able to go shopping for girl clothes and experience reciprocity on her part. Unfortunately, unless her attitude to your CDing changes it is not likely to happen.

Hugs

Isha

[Teresa]

Brynna,
Your post made me think what way does my wife see me with my CDing ? She has caught me a couple of times dressed but no wig or make up so does she consider me girlie at all or just a guy in a dress ? She doesn't know I've shopped for myself but knows I like shopping with her, for her !
I would love to discuss clothes with her and try and get into a conversation about it ! She will do it with friends on the phone but doesn't appear to want to let me in on it !

I'm stuck with the notion that it's not what men do !!

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Bryanna, Welcome to my world.

[Jean 103]

Brynna, I also agree with Reine. I am sure she wants as my wife dose the strong male/best friend, especially in public. Be careful about crossing the line and getting caught, as I did. This led to my separation. We are still friends thou and I am taking her shopping today. I will be playing that strong male role.

[Kate Simmons]

It may be a "Hey, I'm the woman" thing and getting your attention. My wife usually dragged me along whenever she wanted to buy new dresses. I would feign disinterest but always thought about how they would look on myself. I tried other hobbies and interests but no matter what I did my wife got upset that I was spending time on my hobby and not enough on her. So while CDing seemed to be the killer it was really an attention thing as to why we broke up. What I learned from that was while a guy seems to be aloof he really needs to focus on his partner. These days my GF is the center of my attention and when I need to make a choice between spending time with her and CDing, she usually wins out but mostly because I truly want to spend the time with her. That comes with maturity I guess.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Insight into your wife's mentality - wow, that's a tall order Brynna.

My 2 cents worth- I don't know how long it is since you came out to your wife, but I think you have hope for a slow, steady increase in acceptance from her. Her love of the girly things, and her liking for sharing those (up to her own limits of course) with you seems very encouraging. It takes a certain kind of guy to sit through Notting Hill more than once every 2 years, though for me every moment of Julia Roberts is a moment of pleasure.

I think you need to wear her down very, very slowly, and above all make her feel loved. If she has that, she's going to be a more content person, and hopefully a person slowly more accepting of her wonderful husband. The last thing she wants is to be pushed too quickly.

Carry on doing what you're doing, in other words.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Jennifer you implied that this standing around while she shops validates her femininity. Can you elaborate on that for me?

May I take a shot at it?

I think she likes an audience, she wants you to tell her she looks fabulous, and she wants you to use your credit card.

All perfectly normal behaviour

[Tina_gm]

Maybe she wants her husband to validate her femininity in a minor way rather than being "girly." Wives often like husbands to join them in a wife "activity."

very good observation. I think for many women, if their partner likes certain things about them it is for reasons only because of them, not because her partner relates on a similar level.

My wife sometimes has a similar conflict. She enjoys certain feminine aspects of my personality. Recently we were out with some friends. Her one friend was complaining about how her bf tries hard, but doesn't get it, doesn't think about what she wants or needs. He can be absent minded in ways like that, which brought in a couple of comments about typical man. Then my wife said thank god I am not the typical man.... and caught herself from saying anymore. Yet, certain other feminine aspects of me can annoy her quite a bit. This gender thing can be a challenge for all of us.

[Bria]

Bryanna, I think what Reine has said is very insightful and I can't add much to that. I think we all want some positive feedback on our appearance, many times as my wife and I are getting ready to go our she will ask me "well how does this look." Most of the time I just say it looks good, but occasionally I'll offer that a different necklace or scarf would be better. A while back I bought a scarf at Target and we both like it a lot. A couple of weeks ago she borrowed it and later I couldn't find it. She was sure that she had put it back in the scarf drawer. We looked the whole house up and down. I finally found it in the bureau behind the drawer.

Sorry I digressed, but sometimes it works out to be able to appreciate and to have a positive effect on our wife's appearance!

Hugs, Bria

[Brynna M]

Thanks for all the feedback.

Reine; To answer your question. "too girly" is too specific and reminds her that I'm not an average guy when it comes to woman's wear. So something a little too specific "I like the way the skirt flares out on that dress" Seems to depress her mood. So I'm down to the classic semi interested guy "Yes that looks nice" because I'm not sure what is too far.

It sounds like I'm supposed to be an audience and cheering section more than an active participant. It's frustrating not so much because I'm not shopping for my clothes, but because I feel like its an opportunity to connect with the woman I love that I have to forgo.

[September]

Hi, Brynna! First, I'm Wednesday's SO. I've known about the CDing for about 7 months. We have an amazing, supportive, loving relationship in which we talk about everything, so I don't think I can given insight into your wife's thinking.

That said, I'll make a few guesses. For many SO's, we are really worried about what else might happen if we're accepting of the CDing. For example, if "I" accept the crossdressing at home, will you want to go outside? If I accept the going outside, will you want to tell our friends? If I accept telling our friends, will you want to transition? Are you transsexual? Do you really want to be a woman? These are deep fears that SO's have, but a lot of us don't know how to verbalize these fears.

This idea of how "men" should act and how "women" should act is extremely annoying to me as a feminist. People are people. They are individuals. Some women aren't emotional, don't like to go shopping, and hate romantic comedies. Some men are very emotional, love shopping, and enjoy romantic comedies. These activities are just activities.

I'm sorry that you don't feel comfortable to be yourself. That sucks. For me, marriage is about finding someone who gets you--the real you--and who is a partner with you during this crazy, weird journey called life. So I don't think this is a mini frustration. This is about you being able to be yourself instead of trying to fit into someone else's idea of who you are. I don't know your whole story like how long you've been married and when you told your wife about the CDing. Many of us have difficulty getting past the hiding and lying, so there could be so many issues and emotions that your wife is feeling.

I hope you can find a way for both of you to be yourselves and to be happy.

[Ressie]

I had a gf that I went shopping with, but we would shop seperately and agree to meet somewhere within a half hour or more. She thought it was great because her former boyfriends wouldn't even set foot in a mall with her. She knew about my CDing from the beginning but it kind of turned her off. I'm with September^ when it comes to partners supporting each other's proclvities. Being yourself? What a novel idea!

[Jenniferathome]

...Jennifer you implied that this standing around while she shops validates her femininity. Can you elaborate on that for me?

let me try when th an analogy. My wife goes to my bike races. Because of the distance and remoteness she can only actually see me at a one or two aid stations and the finish line. She's simply supporting me and kind of validates my manliness. Shopping with her is supporting her. It validates her. Just a tiny bit.

[ReineD]

Reine; To answer your question. "too girly" is too specific and reminds her that I'm not an average guy when it comes to woman's wear. So something a little too specific "I like the way the skirt flares out on that dress" Seems to depress her mood. So I'm down to the classic semi interested guy "Yes that looks nice" because I'm not sure what is too far.

I'm guessing that when you say, "I like the way the skirt flares out on that dress", your wife takes it to mean that you would like it if it flared out that way on YOU, or that because you are a CDer, you have a personal interest in that dress that a non-CD would not have. I don't think the issue is being too specific in your tastes, but I think a better way to put it might be, "I like the way that dress flares on you .. it flatters your figure and makes your legs look great!"

I don't go shopping with female friends often (I prefer to go alone and just focus on what I need), but I have been asked on occasion to help them shop for something specific, something they had a difficult time finding. For example, one girlfriend was on the shorter side and she didn't have much of a waist, and she could not find an evening gown she liked for an event she needed to attend. Another girlfriend couldn't find a pair of jeans that fit her well in the hips that that were long enough.

On these occasions it would have been unseemly for me to do anything other than devote my time helping my friends find things that were appropriate for them, for their bodies. I would not have seen any part of this shopping trip as an opportunity to find clothes that I liked. It wasn't about that at all.

On rare occasions I have spend a few hours shopping with a female friend for no particular reason and so we usually walk in the store together and each go our own ways since invariably, she is interested in different things than I am … different items, different styles, different colors. Once in a while she might hold up something and ask me if I think it might look nice on her, but when asked, I am placed in the "support" mode as described above, and the answer is focused on how that item might look on HER more than whether I personally like that outfit for myself or not. If this makes sense. It is all very subtle, but even girlfriends who shop together are there for the other and not themselves, when asked about a particular outfit.

[Brynna M]

Thanks all particularly Reine and Jennifer for responding again. Despite have some traditionally female interests emotionally I'm still more "guyish". (and I'm fine with that.) I do understand that when "helping" her I'm helping her. I don't look with an eye for me when we are out (it falls under the don't tell part) I guess I just have to modify how I "help" to at least avoid upsetting my wife.

The rest of the situation is a compromise I knew I made when we married and I still consider worth it. It doesn't stop me from wishing....

Thanks again to eveyone.

[Kandi Robbins]

Sound like the situation I face, although I only recently opened up to my wife. I like to read many of the posts here that I can relate to, it certainly helps.