Nature and...reprogramming?

[kimdl93]

From my readings of published research on gender Identity, it seems quite clear that transgendered women,(externally GM), share some features of brain anatomy with GGs. Also, there is abundant evidence of brain plasticity, that is, at least to some extent, the adult brain can learn new behaviors or use undamaged parts to take over functions lost when other parts of the brain are damaged. I find encouragement in both. Knowing that my brain very likely developed with some female attributes helps me put documented early childhood feelings and behaviors into a meaningful context and has helped me put aside those old feelings of guilt and shame. This helps me understand why as an adult l have so consistently identified with women and experienced intimacy in my mind as a woman.

I find the latter, the resiliency and plasticity of the brain encouraging as I increasingly seek to embrace and express femininity'in my life. Some behaviors are innate, but those that reflect male origins and socialization are, at least to some degree (I'm hoping) malleable.

I also suspect that as I accept myself and practice and just live as a woman, l may be reinforcing and effectively rewiring my mind to be more receptive to coming out, progressing and accepting the possibilities of life as a woman.

I dont for a moment think one can learn to be TS. I do think that once one accepts oneself as transgender it becomes easier to explore and embrace possibilities one once believed impossible.

Any thoughts?

[Frances]

I am not going to make any friends here.

Dick Schwabb's research centers on nerve endings that have to do with sexual functions. Remapping of brain functions after injuries or surgery concerns functions such as speach, none to do with sense of self or identity. I don't know what female attributes you are thinking of, but I am sure they are found in the male population as well. Getting over guilt and finding the courage to come out is done through therapy.

Here's the worst part. Transition is about being yourself and not about putting on a role. You should become a woman if you are a woman.

Now everyone can tell how wrong I am.

[kimdl93]

Not gonna hear an argument from me. I'm a gender mutt...I'll acknowledge that again and again, because I never had a clear, unequivocal female identity. It was murky, but apparent enough to others, it seems to earn me some nicknames that were intended to be derisive...house boy stands out from pre school. I never knew precisely what I was doing that was so wrong, but I got the message.

Brain plasticity...no I'm not relearning my identity. But just as learning a language is possible, though more difficult as an adult, I am hopeful that the things that cry out male may be mitigated through practice.

Going back to your final point, yes, you should be a woman if you are a woman. Totally agree. Now, what if you are 74/25 f/m, but wish to live as a woman? Something's gotta give. My perhaps baseless hope is that I can learn to diminish that 25% just a bit more.

[Frances]

There is nothing wrong with being gender variant or having any kind of gender expression that falls outside the norm. There are many ways of being a human being. There is no reason to force anything. Outside validation should point to your being a woman or not, but what if it does not? Learning to live with that reality is another very important part of our transitioning.

I don't get misgendered, but I am quite boyish. I certainly did not change my expression, if anything, I am not forcing anything anymore. I guess you can undo conditioning, but adding something will always seem affected, you know?

Gender identity is the constant, the body is the variation. Hopefully, transition should be about changing what can be changed, not reprogramming what is burned in.

[kimdl93]

I don't really want to force or manipulate myself. At the same time, I hope to manage or shape the image I present towards the person I feel inside. I tried the androgynous presentation. it didn't feel right to me and I got more perplexed looks from others than I do when I present as a woman.

I hesitate to say I Am a woman because I lack the clarity possessed by a TS person. And because I'm relatively speaking, big. So in some sense it does come to a choice and given the choice, I choose woman. But at the same time, I know I need to work on my voice in particular. My mind and mannerisms were set long before I knew what any of this was about.

[Angela Campbell]

It seems to me that after a lifetime of living as a male, and spending so much energy learning how to make others see you that way, it will naturally feel awkward to begin learning how to come across as a woman. That is not forcing at all, it is a necessary thing in my eyes. Yes it takes time for it to feel and look natural but all learned things are like that.

And there has been studies that show on mri imaging the differences in the brain of a man and a woman. Funny thing the same areas in a gay male match the male image patterns but the image of the ts matched more closely with the female brain. I tried to find the article, just saw it the other day but the images were very interesting.

[kimdl93]

Hi Angela, the imaging studies reinforced autopsy studies...but I'm not ready to subject myself to that. Interestingly, gay and TS brains had a similarity at one level..and disparity at another. Shape and size of some male gay brain structure were similar to TS and GGS, but the internal structure...if I'm correct, the number and arrangement of neurons was discernibly different between GG/TS and gay male brains. (Gender vs sexuality?).

Back to plasticity...I doubt that any of us think...ah....yes, now I feel womanly.n but we are each conscious of where we maybe fall short. I like to think...and perhaps that's self delusion...that I can unlearn some of that male stuff.

[Inna]

Kim, I applaud you for your opening statement.

You have the grasp of whats at stake and the direction of things to come.

"I just want to be me" is both, correct and incorrect, depending on level of understanding.

In fact what is "being ME?" I am not quite sure easy question to answer.

Gender is after all a product of how we as individuals fit within the societal gradient, it is our innate feeling of belonging to a group of specific attributes.
Ones sex is however determined by genetic makeup, and therefore external from our perceived inner being.

Being a woman is as much a personification as is being a man, both aspects are conditioned and learned, being a female or a male on the other hand is dictated by genetic code within the cells.

So who are you?

I tend to feel my self as eternal, unchanging, non-gender, non-local entity or rather energy, which exists through energy of love. In order to experience this realm of corporeal existence this energy, "ME" manifests ego, and this ego connects to the matter or perhaps where energy intersects ego, matter of this world springs to life.

From the first step, word, look, I have been learning how to be this body, this human avatar I occupy. Most of the character I have gathered was corrupt by misalignment of my inner gender to the body of genetics I didn't want yet had to obey.
Now, I have embraced the harmony within and devoted my self to relearning the character to suit the inner gender.
Almost everything had changed, remarkable how pliable this brain of ours truly is.
It had changed so much that when I look back at the decisions and style of handling things this former man had done, I do not understand him at all, nor would I want to have any part in being with him.

[kimdl93]

Inna, I probably need to maintain my perspective carefully for the simple reason that I only know "I" in the context I've lived...much of that living as an avatar before there where avatars.

This much I can say with conviction and confidence: I am ....not I feel or I am more at peace... But I am when I am a woman. I am an avatar when I am obliged to be a man.

[RachelReaper]

I am not going to make any friends here.

Transition is about being yourself and not about putting on a role. You should become a woman if you are a woman.
.

Interesting comments which seem to conflict a bit. "Transition is about being yourself", but you go on to say that "you should become a woman..." Hmmm. Let's think about that. If you are a woman, why do need to become a woman? I understand what you are trying to say but the way you expressed it strikes me as a problem.

"Transition.....is not about putting on a role." Let's think about this too. Are we putting on a role when we spend hours practicing our new voice? How about when we practice our new role-appropriate mannerisms? How about when we adjust our role in society and assume a more subservient place? (that is, not too macho or dominant) Does all of that count as putting on a new role?

Or is all of that training just about being our natural self?

Of course I can anticipate someone making the old claim that we are simply uncovering or revealing our inner self, or unlearning an old role. However, is "unlearning an old role", just a different way of saying that we are "putting on a new role"? In many respects, it sounds like we are reprogramming ourselves......practice makes perfect! Something to think about.

[kimdl93]

I have a tendency to quote Forrest Gump in these discussions. Honestly, I think "it's a little of both". I believe that, muddled as I am, I am perhaps 3/4 woman in that peculiar brain area that determines such things...but after a lifetime of repression and courtesy body parts that did not get the message, I have some relearning to do.

[Beth-Lock]

.... l may be reinforcing and effectively rewiring my mind to be more receptive to coming out, progressing and accepting the possibilities of life as a woman. .... I do think that once one accepts oneself as transgender it becomes easier to explore and embrace possibilities one once believed impossible.

One's brain fucntioning definitely changes with the change in hormone balance. Unexpectedly, simply reducing the testosterone levels by removal of the testes, can change one's behaviour and move it towards the female. How far this affects brain structure is hard to gauge.. I have been going over some of the advanced and mathematical material I had trouble learning so long ago, and now I can settle down longer, concentrate and focus, on it and actually start to understand it. Completely unexpected benefit.

If I had got this benefit long ago, my role playing would have changed. I would have got a better degree, and a more technical one. I would have played the role of a real professional since I would have obtained the ceritifcation to become a professional. Whether I could have gone so far in educational level as to be able to insist on being addressed as Doctor, (or Maitre), and changed my behaviour as a result, who knows? If I changed gender it would have attracted more attention, perhaos a mention in the media, and I would have had to dress more conservatively, and keep my mini-skirts for wear in gym only. (LOL)

[noeleena]

Hi,

Depends on how your wired . and i dont know how you are . myself hard wired female and i know nothing about male wiring nothing there,

many years ago i thought i did that was me trying to figure men out i failed on that ,

our brains are a computer so can we be reconfigured yes as to how much i doint know .

many here say as they dress or trans they change their thinking is it to act a part as some again say they did as a male whlie they were living life ,maybe i dont know ,

If i look at from where i am could i live as a male and think as a male and change my thinking or rewire my brain , well what do i have to work with could i act that part of a male .

How the hell would i when i dont understand males dont think like one and never have and from birth , yes i worked for men and could talk about work and related issues yes i had to talk in their language to be able to be understood.... knowlage if you like .... and learning

To learn something is not rewiring, i wonder if this is more a wont to be like a woman because so many do for myself its not as some know i never wonted to be a female well a complete one , yet i am i did not wont to be a woman i am because i have grown into being one , and like most females we grow into being women . none of that is about rewiring is it its a normal process for us most of us females any way.

nothing to do with clothes , more to do with child bearing , bonding and just being who we are not trying to be other than who we are and from birth, much of the talk is about changing from male to woman and how to get there,

My ? is how are you wired think and feel inside not about a wont to just be other than you are ,
when it comes down to it who are you thats the ? you need to ask your self, can you.

I could wonder whats it like to be a male can you answer that , you see i cant,
oh..... then we have nature and nurture for myself nature and born this way .i cant escape from female Hmmm...... interesting .....

...noeleena...

[kimdl93]

I doubt I'd get many arguments if I acknowledged having some of my wires crossed. But since those wires were crossed a long time ago in the womb, I pretty much have to work with what I've got. The challenge of trying to follow the middle path is that while one is maintaining balance, forces...the need pulls this way, the expectations of others pulls the other....I guess if one is lucky the forces are equal. But then again they could tear a person apart.

[Rogina B]

"Transition.....is not about putting on a role." Let's think about this too. Are we putting on a role when we spend hours practicing our new voice? How about when we practice our new role-appropriate mannerisms? How about when we adjust our role in society and assume a more subservient place? (that is, not too macho or dominant) Does all of that count as putting on a new role?

Or is all of that training just about being our natural self?

Of course I can anticipate someone making the old claim that we are simply uncovering or revealing our inner self, or unlearning an old role. However, is "unlearning an old role", just a different way of saying that we are "putting on a new role"? In many respects, it sounds like we are reprogramming ourselves......practice makes perfect! Something to think about.

As someone that has been socially transitioning for ten years now,I agree. There is a lot to learn and "cutting the line" is not a fast tract toward behaving and being accepted as a woman by others.The traits and feelings that some of us were born with make social transitioning a smooth learning curve of progress. Not hard,as I am only bringing to the surface what was inside..And I am glad that I chose to be myself to my world.

[kimdl93]

I have no doubt that some mannerisms and speech patterns can be innate and others learned. As a child I was teased for the way I walked, so I learned to lumber like a man. Recapturing my natural gait hasn't required conscious effort. My voice on the other hand remains a work in progress and though I practice every day the progress is slow and results so so.

When I started this thread I was really thinking about how the deliberate efforts combined with a mindset open to the possibilities may together in effect make one more receptive to change. I guess a big part of learning and behavior modification is receptiveness.

[Frances]

"Transition.....is not about putting on a role." Let's think about this too. Are we putting on a role when we spend hours practicing our new voice? How about when we practice our new role-appropriate mannerisms? How about when we adjust our role in society and assume a more subservient place? (that is, not too macho or dominant) Does all of that count as putting on a new role?

What makes you think I have to do any of that? I stood out before, not now.

[RachelReaper]

When I started this thread I was really thinking about how the deliberate efforts combined with a mindset open to the possibilities may together in effect make one more receptive to change. I guess a big part of learning and behavior modification is receptiveness.

I dont for a moment think one can learn to be TS. I do think that once one accepts oneself as transgender it becomes easier to explore and embrace possibilities one once believed impossible.

Any thoughts?

I agree completely.

I wonder though if the quoted statement would be true if we substituted female for TS. I believe we will never know if that is true, but it probably does not matter anyway, as long as one is living a peaceful successful life.

[Inna]

I shall put a further spin on the above, and add that transgender, transsexual, or simply trans is a "mindset" of accepting that in fact one is suffering from gender dysphoria. I wasn't trans when I was born, I was innately born a woman, however my discourse in growing up and denial had driven the girl within to the deepest crevasse of subconsciousness.
When I finally gave in to the notion, that perhaps I am BROKEN, that perhaps I am not who everyone else makes me to be, such reveal had made me Trans, a state of consciousness confirming my discourse.
Once I have started the journey of reveal, I was still trans. Then I have emerged into the light of this reality, as truly, a person I was since my birth, then, I simply seized to exist as transient, Trans, and rejoined my true self, that innately of a woman!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

If you transition you realize how much time you may have wasted thinking about these semantics... The day to day permanence of it becomes who you are.... the way you act IS the woman that you are... its no more complicated than that.... lots of natal genetic women take time to learn to act like women or spend time emulating other women that they admire
...why take that away from me because i was born as an apparent male? why make anything of that at all??

Just living as yourself gives you incredible personal satisfaction, and it releases you from worrying about whether you overdid on the voice...and as i started i think overdo it sometimes!!! but that felt wrong...and i talk mostly like i did as a guy.

Kim i think you are right to explore and be receptive to what you find...its really that simple...no need to worry about brain chemistry or roles.. if you push ahead, your experiences will inform your next steps. its getting caught up in thinking too much, trying to define the undefinable (75%/25% m/f how can we possibly know??)

maybe this is the best way to say it..

if you feel like you are living a "role", then you are not in the right place yet.

[kimdl93]

Yeah, the peculiar blend really isn't quantifiable. And I agree also that one's life shouldn't be role to be played. The only time I really feel like I'm role playing is when I'm obliged by circumstance to present as a male.

I do engage in idle speculation when I ponder where I began this journey and all the surprises I've experienced along the way. Thus far, each new revelation has made me look forward to the next.

[Marleena]

Kim this sure is a deep thinker's thread. You're right, one can't learn to, or become TS unless they are TS. However a male can move further along the TG scale (genderfluid) by presenting and living female fulltime or nearly fulltime. One may also find they buried or denied the fact that they are female (TS) if they trigger the dysphoria through escalation or whatever. That's when a gender therapist is required. The only thing that helped me (dysphoria) so far was HRT. In fact I might be the oddball here but at this point it does not matter what I'm wearing I feel right and like me (maybe that's how GG's feel). Imagine going through life looking like grumpy cat.lol. That used to be me.

I'm sitting on the fence as far as transitioning further, hoping HRT will be enough. Looking around here that doesn't seem to be the case.

[KellyJameson]

My gender identity as a woman always had a life of its own and I spent large amounts of emotional and mental energy trying to "control her" or "kill her"

Doing this places you in direct conflict with yourself. You are trying to cut off from yourself most of what you are.

For myself there are two ways I have experienced being a woman. My identity and the reality of living this identity in the world.

Human beings are both concrete and permanent as that which has been with you since birth and will follow you to the grave and plastic as that part of you that is changeable and malleable.

A boy is not a man and a girl is not a woman and a man or woman of twenty is not the same as one at fifty. Life shapes you and you shape life.

I personally do not think it is possible to change ones "gender identity" because it is made out of the the stuff that is concrete. If it was possible to change this identity there would be no suffering caused by the inability to do so.

The brain is both plastic and permanent. Changeable and unchanging. I have "always" identified with woman because I have "always" experienced myself as female.

I move toward that which is similar to me as to my gender (sense of self) and it is this sense of self that resulted in my identifying with girls as a child and women as an adult.

This sense of self has always been with me and it is unchanging and consistently pushed me toward the world of women and "my identity" .

I found myself in women in that they did not create me as to my identity but what was already in me was also in them which I "identified with"

It has absolutely nothing to do with gender roles but as an essence experienced as a type of emotional energy.

My brain works like a woman who is extremely feminine as to the mechanics of her brain.

I naturally practice diffuse awareness and extreme intuition. I can force myself to focus on one thing at once but it is very difficult because of this extreme awareness of everything going on around me and inside me. It is highly emotional and vibrates at a higher frequency and I have always been like this.

I also have never had "boy energy" . My physicality is and always has been very different from boys. It is quieter because I have always been chemically "fueled by something else"

This made boys overwhelming to me because they over stimulated me and I did not like how they played or interacted with me but the girls interacted with me as a complement to my own energy.

To be this way needs the right vessel to express it. To not transition is to remain "unexpressed and unlived" to "some degree"

I was compelled to express that which "is me" and "in me". I needed to have a relationship with the world "as a woman" from "being one"

Not to transition (whose extent is defined by each individual) is to live "incomplete and uncompleted"

We are compelled to move toward a destiny which is that thing(s) inside us meant to grow or we stagnate and stagnation is painful.

We all must live that which we are and so by extension meant to be, just as a seed has its destiny locked inside waiting until the right environment awakens and unlocks it.

Transitioning creates that environment.

[Jorja]

How about when we adjust our role in society and assume a more subservient place? (that is, not too macho or dominant).

I would like to know why people think that to live as a female means you are living a subservient lifestyle? I feel that some people have been looking at too much porn and not living a real quality life. I do not feel that transitioning to be myself as a female is a step down in any way. I am far from subservient but neither am I dominant. If anything I am equal to any living human being on this planet.

[Frances]

I wish there were a "like" button on this forum.