Gender v Sexual orientation

[sometimes_miss]

I think most of us were raised in an environment where homosexuality was considered either a bad thing, or at least, much less desirable than heterosexuality. The old 'not in my backyard' behavior by our parents, families, school mates and coworkers had a very strong effect on what we find acceptable in ourselves as well as the world around us. Even those here who date men or enjoy physical intimacy of any kind with another man often always make sure to qualify it as 'only when I'm in femme mode' less anyone might see it as homosexual feelings and behavior. Women probably feel the exact same way; so when faced with being in love with a man who has a significant female part of his personality, she would naturally think that subconsciously, she must have known, and been attracted to the female traits, and so wonder about herself having lesbian tendencies, which are just as disturbing to most women as male-male feelings are to most men.

[ReineD]

Women probably feel the exact same way; so when faced with being in love with a man who has a significant female part of his personality, she would naturally think that subconsciously, she must have known, and been attracted to the female traits, and so wonder about herself having lesbian tendencies, which are just as disturbing to most women as male-male feelings are to most men.

I disagree.

I think that men are much more homophobic (maybe fear same-sex attraction, definitely fear appearing as a 'sissy' to other men) than are females. The women who come into this forum and say, "But I'm not lesbian", do so because they're not attracted to women, not because they're afraid of being judged as being masculine or somehow being 'perverted'. IMO.

On men not wanting to appear as sissies, or condone any type of "sissiness" in other men: I've noticed over the years that CDers who come out to their children, generally have more luck with daughters than with sons. Not all daughters will be OK with this, but I think that more of them are at least more receptive (generally) than are sons.

[MichelleDevon]

I think there is more than a grain of truth in the assertion than many men "fear" same-sex attraction. I think there is a similar feeling behind attitudes to cross-dressing..."Oh, my God, it might be me. I'd love to do that but I'm not going to let on to anyone else." And the result, in both cases,is an over-macho response - "methinks the man doth protest too loudly".

It is certainly also true in my experience that it is far easier to come out to women than to men; their reaction is born out of a genuine interest I think in many cases whereas many men exhibit the responses as discussed above. However in my own family I have two daughters, one of whom embraces Michelle happily whereas the other wants nothing to do with her so the rule is by no means universal.

I do think it is generally true that women appear to be far less "worried" by issues of gender and sexuality than most men; they seem generally happier to have friendships that are not essentially sexual in nature and, for myself, that is the icing on the cake of my cross-dressing - I love all my new GG friends.

Michelle
xxx

[Vicky_Scot]

It's simple.

Gender is beng male or female and sexual orientation is what gender you are sexually attracted too.

There is no link between gender and sexual orientation at all.

[sometimes_miss]

Missed this, so I have to add another post. As I really, really hate picking on stuff Paula writes because I really like much of what she stands for. and yet,

Genitals just aren't the deciding factor here..

For a lot of people, it is. I absolutely, positively, don't want anything sexual to do with someone who has male genitals; no matter how feminine and sexy a she-male is, there's still the, well, wrong parts, down below.
And there are lots of women who feel the exact same way about someone with female genitalia, it's something that simply does not generate any sexual desire for, sometimes even to the state of repulsion.
Much of attraction can range into a gray area for a lot of people, but often genital type is the ultimate defining item as to whether we consider someone a 'possible' intimate mate or not.

[pamela7]

perhaps, because of the CD-TS spectrum issues we personally face, we over-analyse, needing to understand, to find a "box" we fit in?
but what if we're all unique in so many ways, and accept ourselves as we are, including urges and desires for self-expression.
remaining in the closet enables the "normal" society to continue, and also disables would-be CD'ers from coming out.

its not about gender or orientation, but about our fears of what happens when other people know!

[samantha rogers]

Well, since this is virtually all opinion, here is my 2cents worth...
I believe both gender and sexuality exist as spectrums independant of each other but connected. I believe all humans fall organically somewhere along each spectrum, but that social constructs and expectations along with misplaced shame and fear cause humans to artificially restrict themselves in both cases in order to fit within those expectations.
I believe under the right circumstances, and when mental health allows for clear and unbiased recognition of emotion, that any human is capable of attraction toward a member of the opposite biological sex.
Of course...in the case of TG individuals the entire labeling system becomes ludicrous. If someone who identifies as female internally but posseses male physical attributes goes to bed with someone who is physically male and identifies so, is that gay? Or is it gay if the same female gendered bio male goes to bed with a cis female who identifies as female? And if the same female gendered cis male having entered a sexual relationship with a cis male who identifies as male then undergoes SRS is it still a gay relationship? Or does it suddenly become a hetero relationship simply because of a surgery? It is all rather silly to question once we get into the realm of TG.
How many angels will fit on the head of a pin?
In the end, though of some academic interest, this entire question seems only to serve the purpose of helping individiduals questioning their own desires to feel better about themselves within a binary oriented and personally limiting world.
What difference does it make?
Love who you love.
Life is too short to live according to or worry about the expectations of others, isnt it? Sure seems that way to me.
But, heck, thats just my opinion....and all I really want to do is dance....lol

[girlfriendpaola]

Well, there are 3: orientation, gender and behavior, meaning you can consider yourself whoever you want but you can or cannot behave according to your gender and orientation. Say the man consider himself gay but he doesnt sleep with other men

[donnalee]

I had an interesting experience the other day. There is a gay couple who have lived around the corner from us for a number of years; I know them through my late SO who had got lost in the earlier days of her Alzheimer's, wound up on the porch of their home and had helped her get home (before someone jumps salty, this is something I hadn't known until now, she just explained it as they were her friends). I'm outside, working on my car, when a bright orange Mustang pulls up, a girl (or so I initially thought), tall, thin, long dark curly hair, fem t-shirt, short shorts, girly sandals and enough gold jewelry to make an '80s gang banger proud jumps out, runs over and says "(insert male name here), how are you! I'm ***, don't you remember me?! I brought your SO back that one time!". That had occurred about 5 years ago. and at the time he had very short hair, no jewelry and dressed more guy, and having a poor memory for faces, I hadn't recognized him.
I had to ask if he were transitioning, explaining that I had tendencies in that direction myself, he replied, "Oh no; I'm gay! We do have friends who are, though; tell me, are you attracted to women or men?" Me "Women." Him "Well I'm attracted to guys, I'm just being who I want to be." All I could say is that he could be anything he wanted to. He was so happy and seemed to really like everyone so much that it was catching; just to watch him made me feel good.
Anyway, a comment from a different viewpoint. Apparently, it really doesn't matter how you categorize yourself as long as you're happy with it. He may have felt he would jeopardize his relationship if he was trans; I don't know, but this works for him, he's happy, and I don't think it gets better than that.