I really admire the way you go on in your life. The picture is beautiful.
I really admire the way you go on in your life. The picture is beautiful.
Made the mistake of bringing up the topic of HRT again. My dumb idea of looking at the boundaries of middle of the road... This had been based on a previous "what if" discussion I had had with my wife. During that conversation I asked my wife what she would do if I woke up one morning and we found that my body had miraculously been transformed into completely female overnight. In that conversation she reassured me that she would still love me and we would of course continue living together in a loving relationship. Ahha, but as I'm learning, "what if" and actually taking steps to make it happen are far different...Originally Posted by LeaP
My therapist commented that she was not surprised, that as I become more open with and accepting of my GD that I would tend to shift on the transition continuum. This predictably (to others but not to me at the time) did not set at all well with my wife. This evolved to a whole discussion on my ultimately needing to decide where I see myself in the future which will follow with my wife deciding how far she can travel with me down this road. This then moved on to a discussion of continued marriage, friendship only, etc. Everything that others here have experienced and/or warned about.
Today has been better at home, but a firm line has been drawn at HRT.
We did go out today and I got my navel pierced...Our pedicure adventure is also still being planned for another day.
Last edited by LoriFlores; 02-06-2015 at 12:25 AM.
Lori
You seem to want to push "the line"..I described my middle path life a bit for you,in a previous post. Nails,piercings,etc are all well and good ALONG WITH living openly as Trans..Being out to the world and facing some interesting challenges may be more rewarding for you than pushing the line and causing turmoil for little gain. Some spouses really draw the line at FFS more than the HRT...Every situation can be different. I wish that you would try living openly as a Transwoman and have some experiences from that.Perhaps your GD may be calmed from it for a while. My opinion,of course.
I love this bar. I agree with every single comment.
I am doing so-called middle road for years. Love my wife but we live apart. Need to spend x amount of hours a day in panties, but also still look good in a suit. And decently tailored suits are a lot cheaper than Gucci bags and Manolo shoes. Also-I can not do make up every day and I 'm 6'3".
Yep, for some people it's all about the panties. Very helpful comment for any transsexual woman.
@LoriFlores - you may find that half measures avail you nothing, but I wish you the best of luck.
What is middle of the road about your approach? You aren't doing anything, seemingly to keep your wife happy. She doesn't acknowledge that you are a woman - she won't even use your name in private.
I understand the desire to keep your marriage, and I really do wish you luck, but I am afraid that you are unlikely to get much mitigation of your GD from what you are doing. Because really, you aren't doing very much. I do hope I'm wrong and it works out for you.
I can understand the desire for a middle of the road approach. Some people don't identify well as either male or female, so the type of transitions a lot of us do wouldn't be appropriate.
I would also point out that middle of the road often involves staying in the closet, and that in itself puts a lot of pressure on some of us. Most of us need space where we can really be ourselves, and the big battle of social gender transition is to carve out a space for yourself in the world, and still have a life that isn't just nightmarishly awful for social reasons.
Again, I do wish you the best. Do you think your wife really believes she's in a lesbian relationship?
@ PaulaQ - Thank you for your thoughts. As I said in a PM to another member "this has been a very difficult time, but at the same time my wife and I have made so much progress. Much of the stress has been reduced in our relationship. Although I attribute this much to a greater understanding on her part that gender identity and sexual orientation are not linked. Ie, that because I present and identify as female does not mean that I'm sexually oriented/attracted to men. The seemingly great fear of hers that a gay man was going to snatch me away from her has [apparently] been reduced..."
But to answer your question: I too question whether she really accepts me as a lesbian lover, or if its just a "thank god he's not gay" response.
But also, as I said in the PM, "I want desperately to live my life as I should have", being fully/legally accepted as female. But this does not seem to be in the cards that life has dealt me"Instead, I'm going to have to focus on what I do have in life and not on what I'm missing... I love my wife, family, and much of everything else [we] have in [our] life. I must focus on appreciating these!!! Life can be cruel but I must make the best of it!!!"
Many have predicted that I will fail in this half step, but I'm going to have to give it a try...
Luv and hugs, Lori
Last edited by LoriFlores; 02-19-2015 at 01:34 AM.
Lori
Design a life and then take the steps to actually live it..You are still in the fantasy stage at this time.
Rest assured that there is a very long way to go. As you've seen here, there are all kinds of people and all kinds of outcomes. (many yet to be written)
I'd reiterate there is not much you can do about intense gender dysphoria other than suffer or take steps to transition.
The intensity is not controllable over the long term. The daily grind of it is terrible. Other times its under control for many years, and then some event in life happens and it explodes.
The folks that don't feel that intensity may never agree and that's ok because in the end you will find out for yourself just like we all do.
You are right to say gender dysphoria and sexuality are not linked. One reason you get the reaction here from TS women is that you are very focused on sexuality. Your picture in the OP really sets off all kinds of bells. That is what you chose to post when you introduced this situation to us. For you it's linked. You are not her lesbian lover except in your own thoughts. You are well served to deal with that in your mind and communicate it effectively with your wife.
And what's more, there are a number of us here that swore over and over we loved women, and it didn't turn out that way. Perhaps you know for sure, but again you will find out for yourself.
Same for your wife. What she is doing and saying now is conditional on where you are now. The progress seems real but every single little step forward will raise the risk that her most inner feelings change.
HRT is a non starter for her. That's a significant fact, and that's a signpost as to the direction of the path you are on.
As a transsexual, you really can't make any promises to her(other than doing your best) and she has to deal with it. If the GD gets worse, it will never get better until you deal with it, and that will mean breaking promises
"sorry honey, i have to start HRT(or present more, or have an orchi, or .....) or i want to stop living"...that's what happens.
Whatever you do, its in your best interest to avoid feeling trapped or stuck.
There is alot of ground ahead of you. You need to keep your options open. Be smart in dealing with your GD and the people around you, and be honest in your internal dialog and then take steps to live in a way that helps you manage it. Small steps.
I personally don't think its smart to come up with a grand plan or talk about endgames like being lesbian lovers at this point. I think its smart to take it day by day and communicate effectively. It's smart to help your wife understand you are trying but you need to do what's medically necessary to manage your gender dysphoria, and then do it.
This may be a rare occasion. I completely agree with what Kaitlyn has said in the post above. I could not have said it any better myself.
Kaitlyn Michelle, thank you for the well thought out, carefully articulated answer to this thread. It speaks so well with respect to what I intuitively know to be true for myself. It helps people, who for various reasons, are struggling with their middle road journey.
Carlene
I agree, Jorja. I started replying to Kaitlyn's response but hung up on which parts to quote. It all resonates. And it starkly lays out the implications of serious GD.
The only thing I would add to Kaitlyn's comments about honesty is that it can be very difficult to find self-truth when dealing with GD. Just when you think you have it, it slips away. You will think you were being totally honest when you said something or gave some assurance – only to have outrage come back at you over what is perceived as yet another betrayal. The collision with truth and, consequently, honesty, is fundamental to the condition if you have not lived authentically ... because you have barely started to learn how to be honest with yourself.
Lea
Kaitlyn,On one hand you speak of HRT,and on the other hand,you speak of"presenting more"....Yet you downplay this course of action because it didn't work for you however,you didn't really put yourself out there either..No,the CD mindset is not the middle path mindset..that is not what I speak of.
Hi Rogina, Not sure how to interpret this post. A fantasy that we can make this work or something different? I think of a fantasy as something wonderful, I don't think that any of this process has been "wonderful", it has actually been quite painful and full of apprehension about the ultimate outcome
I will try to follow this advise. It seems like a plan to continue moving forward and living life.
Last edited by Nigella; 02-19-2015 at 01:38 PM. Reason: You have been here long enough to know how to mulit quote, next time you mulitpost, your posts could be deleted
Lori
I think you may have missed the point. Kaitlyn's is not a prescription for a specific action, but for a try it until you find the solution approach. And that (not cross-dressing) did work for her. That it led to transition renders your comment that she never put herself out there more than a little ironic, don't you think?
Lea
Lea P, I believe that some members here are actually encouraging others to get ahead of themselves which often results in a social mess.It isn't wrong for someone to take steps toward "experiencing some of the life" that they claim they need so badly. Lori Flores could take some steps toward experiencing life as a TG woman,before blowing up her world,possibly for no gain. Social transition is a huge part of total transition,as I see it.This does not happen overnight yet sometimes it is believed that "your change" will be instantly accepted by those around you..["You" is not directed at anyone] Proving you can live the life means a lot.
Rogina, it is funny how you and several other crossdressers pop in here from time to time with that accusation. Usually without any foundation but occasionally, as here, by taking TS members' words out of context then twisting their meaning. If you genuinely believe that a post is trying to push people too fast - rather than pointing out as in the quote that you edited that when Gender Dysphoria becomes intolerable, you may find yourself having to go further than you anticipated - PM a moderator or an administrator ad let staff deal with it.
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
I believe this part is only dicoverable when fully transitioning. I found when I first started down the Transition path I was very much single minded in how I thought about things, but most of it came from a life of holding up barriers and trying my best to be 'normal', of course that natural femaleness inside me was always difficult to truly keep hidden and therefore it was often thought by people that I was gay.
I wasn't gay!!
I did not find men attractive (as a man) and I certainly don't want a guy that want's to touch male parts (just my feelings, i'm not against it for others).
I tried so hard to avoid people thinking of me as a gay (no one ever thinks Trans!), that it never ever occured to me to consider men in anyway, I was totally closed off to it..... Until Transition.
Oh and at some stage I promised my wife I would never transition, at another I promised I didn't like men, both times I believed it myself.
When you Transition you open your mind and free yourself of all the conditioning you have made yourself go through to fit in as a guy. This awakening made me realise I did like men but as a woman, I like straight men.
In essense I want sex with a man as a woman, but not as a man, there is a huge difference between the two but I think it's only something you can't come to terms with, when you actually open yourself up to being and living as a woman. Transition changes you, Hormones change you, your future becomes an open book and all things are possible. One of those things is your sexuality, so although I totally agree GD and Sexuality are not linked, I do believe that it needs to be re-evaluated.
Many here are still very much into women and you maybe one of them, but be open to the idea that it could change.
Rogina, I haven't seen that. This thread started with the announcement of taking the middle path 'of Transition'. Not just the middle path. I don't see how there is a middle path to transition? Transition is going from one thing to another, the awkward few years we suffer getting from the male to female. A middle path of Transition is basically stopping, it's not Transition.
Now living a middle path is fine and I think if you can do it then great, because full transition is tough. Control your GD in whatever way you can, but don't call it Transition, it's not!
What's "Life as a T-Girl"??
I'm not being funny but I have T-Girl friends and they go to clubs together and nights out and some even go shopping together, it's great and they all feel good being out. But really it is only a taster and doesn't prove anything. These people have no idea what it's like to live as a woman, when they can fall back on being a man when something gets tough. The few T-Girl friends I have think it's all dress up and going out, it's more like going to a garage for a car repair and getting treated like your an idiot, even my Dad now dismisses my opinion as lesser. The effects of Male privilege can only be realised when you begin to immerse yourself in a woman's world.
A former Trans-woman that had fully transitioned, was on TV a few months ago saying that at first it was great, social events were great and men opened doors for her etc, but after a while she couldn't cope with how she was being treated by men and things were difficult. So she detransitioned and was on TV telling everyone how the 'Gatekeepers' didn't truly help her. In my opinion he (he is male again now) had the completly wrong idea of life as a woman, he probably had some idealized view. I would say he wasn't TS in the first place and had he had some decent RLE experience beforehand would have realised it isn't what you may think it is.
I will always espouse the virtues of experience first, but that experience has to be real life everyday stuff.
I had a hair transplant recently and had to go no make-up, no wig and only in scrubs (still have a little dark hair on my top lip to add to it). My partner said why don't you just go in male mode, but it wasn't an option for me. Since a good year now I have vowed to do everything as female regardless of how awkward it might be. So yeah, I felt crappy sitting there exposed with everyone calling me Rebecca, the stange looks from some of the technicians. But that's life, I don't think you can take yourself serious if you opt out when it gets ropey.
So no disrespect, but after a tough year for me, I can't take a middle path Transition where nothing happens and a picture of two lesbians on a beach seriously. It might be a good idea to explain the meaning behind that picture?
Well written Becky. I never had a problem recognizing that a man was handsome and might say so with a trusted individual, like my wife, but saying so openly could get you ridiculed by the "man club" (in my past anyway). So there could be a certain level of packing it away internally because of the social implications. Now that we transitioned, those implications aren't there. So maybe attractions to men could be hormonal, or maybe they could just be freeing our minds from perceived social implications. I am still not sure myself. I am fortunate that I am still in the same relationship, so I think not having the need to explore that side of me leaves me where I just don't know.
Back to middle path. When I started out, I always said "I am a crossdresser and I don't think I will ever transition". But once I started getting out, my life moved to being near full time outside of work. Because I also started laser/electrolysis, I feel I was well within the realm of what many of my middle path friends were doing and feeling, so I could have been identified as a middle pather. So I see things somewhere in the middle. You do learn a lot in the middle path. I have no doubt that those years went a long way to me accepting myself and having a smoother transition. I thought I wasn't transitioning, but that changed for me. For others, they have gone many years in the middle. So while it is no where near transitioning because you can fall back to male mode if something is really tough, it depends on where you draw your lines. Mine was automotive services. Something about it made me nervous. But I certainly had experiences of handing over my ID or saying my name or getting looks. I was doing what felt right and I was happy, so I got used to it pretty quick. That was part of what told me it was the right thing. So while it didn't work for me in the long haul, it was a good thing to try since I wasn't in a negative life situation where I had to transition now. And because of that, I probably gained more acceptance from those around me since they were able to come along slowly with me.
So I think of three middle pathers that I at least know a little bit about each of their lives. I would say from my perspective, and they might argue, that they are strong and healthy people who are doing it for family reasons and although they certainly go through stressors at points, they are managing it. So that tells me that the amount they present gives them regular control of their GD but the peaks can be difficult. Because they have regular control, they choose not to risk losing family. Absolutely more power to them and I support them 100%. Some day these experiences may help them transition in an easier manner or they may keep their happiness right where it is.
Rogina you totally and completely are making that up. You totally missed my point. Almost laughably.
If you didnt understand what i wrote, and then go on to make a general criticism of members here based on what i wrote, it makes no sense. It shows you are reading this stuff with a bias or agenda.
You need to reconsider your train of thought and bring it up to a credible standard.
And frankly i don't think i could have been clearer.
I don't like being misrepresented. Especially in the context of this stuff.
The point of action I downplayed is making long term pronouncements of what you'll do or not do.
This is good advice for everyone that suffers GD because GD often gets worse no matter what you do.
I believe any cd or ts that suffers gender dysphoria can improve their quality of life and find out about themselves by presenting more
...i shouldn't have to repeat myself but you make it necessary.
Becky, thanks for your thoughts. Seems I could have chosen my words better here too. Maybe middle path [before/prior] to transition would have been more precise??
The picture was meant to represent where I am in my mind, both in life and in our marriage. A woman loving a woman. Its a beautiful picture which has meaning to me, maybe in representing my shifted [or fully understood, or self accepting, or becoming more open with] mindset. This is what it means to me and is serious, important, and calming to me.
I'm sorry if I'm not more articulate with my words or in explaining my feelings.
Last edited by LoriFlores; 02-21-2015 at 01:08 AM.
Lori
Lori, you don't need to keep apologizing. Many of us in this forum are struggling with our identities, whether or not we will ever be able to fully develop and express them, and so on. We have also had little opportunity to interact with other people like us, thus leaving us, not exactly knowing how to socialize. As a result we may say things that others may find offensive.
Whether you are a cd or a ts may or may not become clear over time, but I wish you the best in finding peace.
Carlene
I respect that the picture is important to you.
I am sorry if i made you feel bad about it.
My point to you is that this is very serious and a picture is not going to cut it.
I did take your message very seriously and i hope that you understood what i was trying to say
It is a wonderful thing if you've made a breakthrough in how you view yourself, but at that point it becomes very serious and will have a big impact on your quality of life and there are a litany of non constructive thoughts, ideas and behaviors we've all collectively experienced(one of the biggies being getting way ahead of yourself)...as i said, you get to do what you want but its good to see all the points of view and decide what resonates for YOU...
So, you have explained your view of this relationship which is (as I understand) a woman loving a woman. There is nothing wrong with that. Does your wife/SO have the same image of the relationship? If so, what is the problem, make it happen.
Hi Lori
Having been through all this with my wife several years back, my concern is that your picture is unrealistic and therefore unhealthy to use as inspiration.
My wife loved me and wanted to help, yet she also did everything she could to hold on to the male, including not using and hiding from my female name. She wasn't and never will be a lesbian and I fear from your messages that your wife is the same.
I'm sure your wife loves you and wants to help, but I doubt that picture is very appealing to her.
If the two of you are of different minds in how this will progress, it will be all the harder for you going forward.
I do hope you can find a way to keep your marriage and control your GD, but be realistic about where it might go.
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